[Highlight] In one of the stranger calls, AJ Dybantsa is ruled out of bounds because his shoe comes off his foot and lands there
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Is there a rule for how separated a guy’s shoe has to be from his foot, to no longer be considered part of the player?
I would guess if it’s still touching his foot?
What if your shoe lace was out of bounds
Is it a part of your shoe? You’re oob.
I’m what now
Believe it or not, jail.
Technically out I would presume, unless laces specifically mentioned in the rules.
The rules mention uniform, and laces must be seen to be part of the player’s uniform. I wanna see some referee actually noticing that in the middle of it all and call it. Immediate legendary status.
What if your velcro strap was out of bounds
His foot was in/touching his shoe while the shoe was touching the line. Makes sense. It was just really close.
I think the answer to your question is also obvious. If you’re touching the shoe and it’s out of bounds, then you are out of bounds. It doesn’t matter how far the foot is out of the shoe.
What if a player’s shoes flies off onto the sideline, and then that same player steps on it later in the same play? Is he out of bounds? His foot is no longer inside the shoe, but he’s still touching the shoe.
If yes, then I have a follow-up question: suppose Player A loses a shoe that falls right on the sideline, and another shoeless Player B steps on Player A’s shoes later in the same play, is Player B now out of bounds?
I think at that point the official status of his foot is no longer wearing the shoe and thus the shoe is not a part of his foot.
So the question is at what point does the shoe not count as being wore. I think if you have it on, the shoe has to detach completely to count as off.
Pretty sure the shoe gets 2 gather rolls before officially not being part of the player.
worn
1st is clearly out of bounds.
2nd is also out of bounds. If he put the shoe on properly for example, it’d count as his shoe obviously. Thus out of bounds there
What if he’s shooting a 3 and one of his shoes is completely off and behind the 3 point line, his other foot with the other shoe is also behind the line, but his other shoeless foot is out of bounds, a man can’t be in 2 places at once, so it’s obviously a flagrant foul on the defender who’s stepping on the footless shoe, right?
Hes out of bounds if he touches the shoe that’s out of bounds
I think out of bounds gets superseded by leaving a shoe that impacts play. As soon as someone trips over your shoe, they get the ball back. Might be a technical really.
Didn’t a player just get called out of bounds for helping his teammate up while his teammate was out of bounds?
Yes. It happened with the Thunder this year.
Of course that’s oob.
Yeah it was jaylin williams helping hartenstein up - the out of bounds was really on hartenstein though as he contacted the ball carrier whilst out of bounds
I missed this. He helped him up mid dribble? Or he was holding the ball and helped him up?
Mid dribble I believe.
https://youtu.be/xX3_WvgLdXs
I mean shit they gave Jwill the transitive property out of bounds call when he helped ihart up 😭😭
They called him out of bounds by means of osmosis.
I agree with the out of bounds on this shoe incident but that’s just stupid to call JWill out in that situation. I think context matters and even if it’s technically the correct call according to the rules it’s still stupid. If you’re gonna call something that petty then start calling all of the carrys and travels.
Probably it has to come fully off
Not touching it. His foot is still in the shoe a little bit at the time the shoe touches the line. You just can’t be touching anything that’s out of bounds
Either way he traveled.
You touch something that is touching out of bounds and you are also out of bounds.
I’d like to think that since the foot still steps on the shoe, it still counts as a part of “you” that steps out of bounds. But hey im no expert
Since each part of the court touches parts of the court that either are out of bounds or lead to a section that is - is the entire inside of the court out of bounds through transitive properties?
Same with the air - each molecule if untracked eventually will contact an out of bounds surface.
If that’s the case I’ve seen a player throw a man’s foot down the court, brutal
So if you’re wearing shoes, your foot never touches out of bounds and you can go wherever you want? Are you stupid, by chance? No judgment, just asking.
Some people go on Reddit to see what happened in the day while they were working. Some people come on Reddit to be unnecessarily aggressive to strangers about random immaterial shit like this. Both are different ways of unwinding I guess, maybe equally valid
You’re spot on, I was just making a dumb joke
Demarcus cousins picked up Jeremy Lambs shoe after if fell off and threw it. I’m say in the before comment that if the shoe is part of the foot then, well I assume you can connect the dots
The toe of his foot is in the shoe when it’s on the line at the 4 second mark. That’s when he’s out of bounds. Where his shoe ends up after that point is irrelevant.
Well apparently if you are touching your teammate, you are considered one player.
Check out the out of bounds call on jaylin williams a few weeks ago.
Florida will test this during the regular college basketball season and throw a shoe.
I once played Schroeder 2on2 and he wore unlaced 1‘s and dominated everyone he played that day.
I find it wild how often professional nba players have their shoes come off during a game. I just would have thought they’d be made or tied up in a way that offers more consistent support for all angles they play at. Seems pretty important.
I was thinking the same exact thing. I was a hooper who needed to be laced up tight so my shoes felt like they were one with my feet. It’s tempting to be critical of the guys who can just pop their shoes back on without lacing up but I mean, if they’re balling out in the NBA, I guess it’s worked for them all the way up to this point so what do I know.
Some shoes were just like that. No matter how tight you tied them, they would stretch over time, or the overall shape of the shoe/foot just made them prone to slipping off when I was doing certain things on the court.
When I played varsity, I played in huarache 2k4’s, some older Jordan 11 retro’s, LeBron II’s and an old pair of hyper flights. The hyper flights were almost guaranteed to come off at some point because I spent most of my possessions driving. The LeBron II’s came off once or twice because of the lacing system.
The huaraches and 11’s never came off and I never had to re-lace them mid game, just had to keep the outsoles clean.
I can never wear my hoop shoes like that. I would get black toenail syndrome like 3x a year and it was the worst
Real ballers play bare foot.
You didn’t grow up playing barefoot but it’s extremely addicting, with any sport. You can control your body down to centimetres.
Shoes don’t allow for this, they even restrict it most times, if you try to optimize, they just come off at max friction
So you played in mens leagues or pickup?
Did you ever have you feet professionally taped? If so, you wouldn’t even feel the laces.
Demar Derozan doesn’t even tie his
https://youtube.com/shorts/93mS3n1eXyE
Except his shoes are tied in all the photos they show. I think he means that he doesn’t untie his laces before putting his shoes on and then tighten and re-tie them. But they are definitely tied, perhaps by someone else before he puts them on.
So the shoes are off and tied into a normal knot, then he slides them on while still tied, doesnt tighten them, doesnt re-tie them, and plays?More to the point that sounds like theyre not very tight, but also perhaps technically “untied” if its like the shoes off the shelf that are already tied lol
They will come off in a game and he just reaches down and puts it back on like a slipper.
perhaps by someone else before he puts them on.
Imagine having a shoe-tying guy.
I bet Kramer knows a shoelace guy
I would pull a lance stephenson and untie his sneakers every game. guy prob doesnt know how to tie a knot
he wears new shoes every game? Jesus christ the nba is wasteful
You play hard enough and run enough, the shoes aren’t the same real quick.
But are you really saying they can’t last two games? Three?
Agree, but I always wondered if there’s just a collector’s market for game-worn shoes that makes it profitable to them….or maybe that only applies for superstar level athletes?
Yes. I wear size 15 and have collected sneaks for 20 years. Player PE’s, game worns, team shoes from colleges, and sample shoes all have a market. Wide range, like a NAW game worn PE to a Crieghton LeBron 20.
I personally don’t wear them super tight either. Having them tied on tight feels like too much pressure on the ankle. I’m sure most NBA players have their ankles taped already, so tightening the shoe can feel even more restrictive. Feet also naturally swell from activity too. I’m sure they tie them to also account for possible swelling during the game. Since this happened late in the game, I wouldn’t be shocked if he loosened the shoe a bit because of the swelling.
John wooden used to start with proper shoe tying at that start of every training camp. Pop also used to do that. I think we need to bring that back.
Happens surprisingly frequently in every sport I’ve played. I double-tie + tuck my laces as a habit and have never had them come undone. I genuinely think it is just laziness despite the massive stakes in the NBA
Can easily happen after a guy flat-tires you, the shoe may not come off immediately but the next time you go to plant off that foot it’ll come off
They’re lazy because…their shoes come off sometimes? That doesn’t even make sense
They are also lazy because they aren’t sprinting at all times and instead stop to “guard their man”, or “listen to the coach on a timeout”, smh.
That’s why I always hoop in velcro
Why even use shoe laces? Why not a buckle or something?
Why not crocs?
But why male models?
Are you serious? I just told you.
In sport mode, of course.
You need something with give and evenly distributed pressure or the shoe or foot will break at some point lol. Buckle like systems have been used on basketball sneakers but they are always in conjunction with something else if they’re successful.
Some snowboard and cycling shoes use a ratchet system and it works pretty well in my experience.Would be interesting to see on a basketball shoe.
Randomly, this was an interest in mine and I tinkered with some engineering students about 10 years ago on this. You can do it, but the stiffness and weight penalty doesn’t make a great shoe
Its not anywhere near the same amount of stress on them, but a lot of bowling shoes are ratchet systems now as well
I remember a pair of the Gary Payton’s used a ratchet system. It wasn’t loved on the court, to say the least lol. We loved it for casual wear, but it eventually broke for almost everyone I knew.
It probably would have hurt a lot of people on the court if it didn’t break so easily. I don’t think the extreme variations of lateral movements of basketball and the weight of adult players would mix very well for a durable versions of past ratchet systems.
Benjamin franklin over here
I used to have a pair of Iversons (yes I am old) that had a drawstring type thing. They also had a little dial on the side that you turned and then as you walked around the air pocket pumped up and kept your foot snug. Loved those shoes tbh
I had the brick Adidas T-Macs that had that super weird skiboot latch system in the back. Probably the dumbest shoe purchase I ever did, but for one season that was what I used. Learned from that mistake and there on out I just got the 2k4 Huaraches.
rotary dial laces, still common in things like boots and cycling shoes.
Puma uses them on a lot of things, you can also see them referred to as BOA clips.
I’m sure in much the same way that underhanded free throws have been shown to be more consistently repeatable and accurate, people would not be willing to change away from laces due to how much they’d get roasted for doing so.
next expansion team: Las Vegas Pilgrims
It’s because they didn’t have Wooden as their coach
Some players just like their shoes loose, so they come off once in a while
I feel like it’s easy to explain. The uber soft cotton of the socks, uber soft inside of the shoes, they both get damp and sweaty and it’s easier to slip off at insane angles.
Soles are usually stiff to protect the integrity of the shoe and therefore protect the foot and the ankle.
It’s a feature, not a bug
Youre overthinking this. Basketball shoes are just not as high as the old high top shoes were, and its not cool to tie your shoes super tight either. That’s literally all it is.
Combine that with 30 NBA teams playing 82 games, stuff is gonna happen even if it’s not incredibly likely
They all play in running shoes now. Forget hitops, they don’t even wear mids anymore.
How do their ankles survive? I sprained my ankle a ton of times and would feel naked without my high tops.
Some people are prone to different injuries. I always played in low tops and I’ve had one sprained ankle in my entire life but I’ve probably had 25 distinct finger dislocations plus my back and knees are jacked up
There are definitely injury-prone players with otherwise pro level talent that fizzle out at each level of the sport. We like to think of speed, explosiveness, height, and intuition as natural and in some cases immutable traits of players at the highest level, but natural durability is one too.
This has been studied quite a bit and every study I’ve seen has concluded there’s basically no difference between high top and low top sneakers in terms of ankle protection
One study example: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8368420/
Players get their ankles taped.
I understand the naked feeling, but you probably overestimate the support for high tops.
If he had high tops they woulda stayed on
tying shoes is for try harder..
But was his shoe still attached to him in any way when it hit the out of bounds line? It honestly didn’t look like it was.
very few of us have ever stress-tested a shoe like an nba player does. if you were that strong and that fast your shoes might fall off more often than seems normal
just a theory. maybe they don’t tie them tight enough idk
It’s because Israel again.
/s
It’s the hood instinct taking over
God damn that slow mo scares the fuck outta me, isn’t that little move how Hali tore his shit
Hali was playing with his shit strained. That’s a normal basketball movement most players do several times a game
Was Tatum’s strained first?
Yeah it was. He took a bad fall in the same game right before he tore it too.
Its the angle too. Something around less than 30 deg and then pushing off causes the achilles injury. Happened a lot in pickleball
I don’t mean to make fun of pickleball but if I tore my achilles playing it I’d walk around like normal for the next year and destroy my leg just so noone would find out
No way to know
Nah OP is 100% right though. AJ uses enough force here to where his shoe is forced off his foot. That’s a terrible Achilles risk. Iirc a YouTube doctor said the hard negative step is the number one contributor of Achilles tears. The tendon is not built to load and explode at such an acute angle
Maybe this is the solution. Shoes coming off serves as a force limiter. If his shoe was tighter that much more force goes into the achilles
Like how they purposely build race cars to shatter into pieces in a crash to help dissipate the energy
Shoe tongues that dislodge before the Achilles does.
yeah but then your step is not where its expected and it could be worse, that little foot shuffle when he plants after his shoe comes off makes me squeamish.
The achilles tendon is absolutely built to handle that load and angle. That’s why players do it 100x a game and nothing tears
The question is, is it able to handle it over 82 games + playoffs with a brutal schedule and little time to recover
I think this is going to be the next wave. I heard this same point discussed on Nate Duncan’s podcast recently. Players and management, I think, will start to see that these moves do gain an advantage, although I’d argue they are kind of miniscule, and are not worth the long term injury risk that is carried with the movements. Science is outperforming biology. Something has to give.
The larger point, IMO, is that the players are better shooters and athletes than they’ve ever been, which leads to greater defensive responsibilities, and more relatively innovative moves being used to try and gain an advantage, causing more stress on every single play compared to 30 years ago. Science has advanced in player preparation and workouts but the human body has limits. At this point we are in a phase where we are trying to hack everything. Hack the body, hack strategies, take an existing move and hack it by using one foot instead of two, which causes tremendous srress on that one leg, etc.
At some point, teams should start to come to terms with this and emphasize new strategies that promote sustained physical activity rather than trying to just exert more effort on everything. More effort is no longer a viable solution. There is a limit.
This is like being afraid of going to sleep because some people dont wake up
It might be like being afraid of going to sleep on the edge of a cliff because some people aren’t there when they wake up.
Don’t sleep there!
Of course this is how Achilles get torn….and hard cuts is how ACLs get torn. Playing basketball is a “terrible -insert tendon/ligament risk” 🤣
People get trained not to do a step back/negative step for this exact reason. Just because people do it doesn’t mean it’s good.
It’s still THE move that has popped like every single Achilles in the last several years.
Yeah comments like those show me how little people on this sub hoop lol
I’m no where near NBA level and I do this move 10 times every run. It’s a simple fake that gets your man off balance
when the heel collapses and touches the ground is when the achilles is at full extension and prone to being torn.
AJ keeps his heel high even when it slips he’s got sound movement patterns by the looks of it.
I’m 1000% sure hali/dame/JT were trying to “keep the heel high” during their injuries. Just too much overuse/fatigue causes them to not be stable and have that mechanism for injury
Huh so maybe shoes with more toe flex would reduce the downward pull on the heel, maybe reduce injury. AJ’s shoe here doesn’t flex enough and is maybe why it flies off.
iabh?😼
GOATA?
yup
What is GOATA?
yep.
Negative step is incredibly common. Like once in every offensive action common.
It is, and it puts a ton of stress on the lower leg and esp Achilles. I don’t know how an athlete trains to make that kind of stress not strain the connective tissue.
Plyometrics, I can imagine. And specific exercises that strengthen the surrounding muscles, like the calf.
Y’all know more than I do, is that the negative step? Seen some players do that after a layup or dunk
that’s obviously the same movement every time someone tears their achilles
You can go back and look at every torn achilles in the last 15 years. Negative steps the whole way down
He just snaps his head at everything, he fine
It’s funnier the more you post it bro, keep going
That’s how almost every person ever has torn an Achilles lol.
They all tore it taking that small back step. I assume it’s something they do all the time though.
I winced.
Oh yeah if he keeps doing that move like that he will definitely tear his achilles. They need to coach that out of him
Its a common move to get around a defender but also super common way to tear your achilles. Its a lot of force on the tendon to get that burst on the first step. Its an effective move but it definitely comes with a higher risk than most imo
Objectively the right call but jeez that’s bizarre
Yeah, definitely looks like he still had contact with his shoe when it hit the white line.
Ref definitely went home and told his family about that call like he hit a game winner.
the entire end of this game was so nuts. cade is a baller for sure. washington made some incredible plays, though.
To be fair, his foot was touching the shoe when it was on the line. Tbh, a call I would never expect an NBA ref to catch. They caught that and miss the most obvious other shit.
We have very high expectations of refs. They were running with the players. They get blamed if they miss calls or make bad calls. They could be right 90% of the time. But blink and they miss a call. We complain. We also get to watch the play from multiple angles in sharp hi def with slow mo. Outside of reviews they are just watching it live and gave to cover the whole court as you have fouls away from the ball.
As we get better cameras and more players learning to hack the game for minuscule advantages reffing will be harder and harder. The throw in sports gambling - they’ve got a difficult job.
I ref basketball for over 10 years, NBA refs get most stuff right if you actually breakdown every Play. They miss stuff and it gets blown out of proportion, but also you need to realize a lot is for entertainment. They don’t want to foul out superstars and they help pad the Statlines so you’re happy watching the product. If you want to see real refeeeing at a high level, Olympics is where it’s at.
They’re clearly taught to prioritize certain calls over others. These refs look traveling players dead in the face and don’t call a thing.
Lol makes you wonder sometimes if they’re given direction to miss certain calls….
Home team bias is a real thing. But I’d assume the NBA is giving more gauzy instructions on game flow and stuff. No one wants a free throw contest.
Refs fans eating good tonight.
So can you leave your shoes inbounds and play in your socks out of bounds?
If KD was barefoot, the nets would’ve been in the finals.
Brother 😭😂😭
socksketball leads to a lot of travels but is very fun. source - played a lot of socksketball
No
They would’ve called a travel if they were to review so either way it’d be pistons’ possession
Kinda makes sense….foot still in it.
Isn’t that a travel? He shuffled his feet before the dribble
Shoe is part of the foot.
Considering it was a crucial call in a 2OT loss is also nuts
Regardless of the shoe, does the defender not just plant both hands on a frontward facing player while sliding into his path and then throw his hands up in protest thinking he got the foul call? Watching these games in a sideways zoomed out view shows how much contact and fouls that could be called all the time. It has to be maddening as a player when they decide how to call things.
Shoe is part of the foot 🤷🏻♂️
Imagine this is a playoff game and they call this
Why wouldn’t they? It’s a very odd thing to happen but his foot is in the shoe out of bounds.
Yeah idk why people are blaming the refs here. It’s the right call
Because the refs are always wrong according to this sub lol
What if the basketball gods foresaw another achilles tear and intervened by releasing AJ’s foot from the shoe at the last second…
I didn’t know we were playing Brazil rules
Such a weird game between this and the new technology that ruled Duncan’s three a two. Plus Cade’s chin murdering that dude lol.