Wemby describes the good and bad with living in America
I’d imagine most celebrities would have shallow social interactions. Most of them probably don’t want anything more anyways.
That’s not a celebrity phenomenon. As a European living in America, I can co-sign what Wemby said about judgement of ambition and shallow interactions.
Is that from just having more interactions with strangers in America than in Europe?
You know how you always hear that Germans and Czechs and Swedes and Finns are cold or whatever
It’s not coldness, it’s “I don’t have time or capacity right now to invest myself properly into this social interaction, so I am giving you a lot of personal space assuming you are likely feeling the same”
I wouldn’t even say shallow, rather just fake. Like complete absence of sincerity. It was extremely noticeable to me, being from the Balkans.
Yep. Back home (Mexico), if you ask someone how they are doing, we usually stop and have a quick chat to catch up. Here, it’s more of a formality to ask and people don’t really expect you to respond if asked. Or they just expect a quick “good”. Took a while to get used to, especially in the workplace.
Any time I hear this it’s usually just lack of understanding the culture (understandably so) than someone being fake.
I agree with you, but i also agree with wemby. In america it’s so common to greet someone with a basic “how are you” or “whats up” and and it’s just “doin good” 99% of the time. It’s more just pleasentries and politeness, which is important, but it doesnt mean anything 99% of the time also.
As opposed to ça va? Lol
Well i dont know how it is in france or elsewhere. I’ll take wembys word for it
Probably because most celebrities feel they have to feign a forced state of automatic friendship with other celebrities despite not having spent time with them. Like, there’s an expectation that you’ll act familiar and cordial just because you’re both wealthy and well known. Probably leads to a lot of shallow conversations.
Nah as a french person i definitely agree with him, daily interactions are… Weirdly shallow. American small talk feel fake to us. No hate at all just a feeling. In France we are either stranger either deeply involved in friendship, there is not much this in between way to talk to people.
No judgment, no hate, just a pure cultural différence and that’s ok.
It also depends on the region/city, ppl in places americans perceive as rude (NY, Phy, Bos, Chi) are often just ppl being direct in my limited experience, compared to SoCal for example, with Florida being the worst of both worlds.
I’m from the US and have lived in Europe for a few years now and I don’t think it’s fake.
I think Europeans are far more conscious of class and social norms and it’s just not their type of culture to act like Golden Retrievers, always happy and in your face and willing to talk to strangers
You guys think it’s fake with us but that’s just how Americans are. I often times miss it (although obviously I meet plenty of Europeans who can also be like this)
I’m just a regular dude and I don’t want anything more either. Who wants to be having philosophical conversations with their neighbor?
Those aren’t you only 2 options lmao
I only said one scenario. What’s the second option I listed?
There are two kinds of people. Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data.
Ok but he said its bad in usa implying its better elsewhere
lol what? First of all, the word celebrity is cringe. Second of all, the reason interactions in america are often shallow is because American culture quite literally celebrates that. Why waste time on getting to know people deeply when you can instead use them for your advantage instead?
That’s a bit..broad?
I’m not saying he’s wrong, but all I ever hear about France is how unwelcoming they are to non-French speakers.
That’s just in Paris. They are a lot of the time assholes in that city. The rest of France and its people are way more likely to be kind. And I’m sure French people will agree. It’s like compare people from NY to the rest of America. It’s one of the perks of a big city I guess. And since most people that visit France go to Paris, they leave with that impression
i went to paris expecting it to be rude and somewhat racist (i’m not white), and i found almost everyone perfectly polite and nice. they weren’t excessively friendly but i don’t expect that in any major city.
at least anecdotally, I don’t understand where the stereotype comes from.
Even French people fall for the stupid stereotypes. Grew up in a small French city being told Parisians are snobby and give the French a bad name. I moved to Paris for a higher salary and found out Parisians are just human beings like everyone else.
Anyone that thinks a metropolitan area with a population of 13 million and the most diverse demographic in the country is monolithic is just stupid. People are just lazy and it’s easier to believe the stereotype instead of doing the research.
Most people I interacted with in Paris were polite, but not particularly warm. There was one taxi driver that was warmer, but I think he just thought my mom was pretty.
I did have one experience in CDG where I was chided for not speaking French. I thought it was a bit rude given the scenario of being in a major international airport with many people, like myself, just catching connecting flights to another country.
The south of France by my measure having worked over there for about a month every year is a truly wonderful place. Fantastic food, terrific people, beautiful scenery.
If I had to leave the us it would be where I’d want to be.
South of France is the main place Le Pen is popular I think confusing politeness with being a good person is something people often get wrong.
Yeah I dunno. I’ve never really had a bad interaction with a French person. Not counting French Canadian though
Gonna spend two weeks on the riviera, Provence, champagne, Paris for my honeymoon next June. Any tips, recs, thoughts?
Not a lot you can do wrong. Go to hills, explore the small towns, get on the beach if you get to the coast, drink lots of wine, have obscenely long lunches. Take a long nap, go out to dinner.
Talk to the old heads locally, you get a lot of insane stories from the cocaine 80s in certain parts of the region.
When I’m over there I’m pretty much expressly there to entertain clients so it’s basically vacation.
When in Paris, beware of pickpockets, don’t stay out past metro closing time (around 1 or 2 am), and avoid the usual tourist traps like Montmartre. Some taxis at the airport are scams so make sure you take the official taxi with a fixed fee depending on North or South of the Seine.
Paris is going through a cost of living crisis, so parisians will be more than happy to take your money. Generally, they’ll be friendly since they really love tourists these days. But there’s always the scammers and opportunists to beware of.
I talked for a while with a Frenchman at a bar once, the conversation got into Paris and he said “Yes we also hate Parisians!”.
Its super common, no matter if we’re talking about Madrid, London, CDM or Peking, its different for countries where the capital is some bumfuck compared to the economic centre, like US or Australia, then it mostly applies to the biggest city.
I have friends who felt unwelcome in Marseille as well, though I understand that’s another city.
I mean completely disagree it’s the opposite, Paris is just like any global city, most people are used to tourists and very used to non-french speakers it’s very normal for them and it’s part of their normal day to day life to have to deal with those people
My experience is the opposite as the smaller town they do not like people that speak other languages, i was in multiple french cities, spent 2 days in Rennes, watched a football game, most people did not speak english
OP said non-french speakers, Paris is literally a city with millions of them daily
Paris is not like any global city what lol
Compare Tokyo to NYC to Paris - 3 completely different cultures around tourism
I responded to the other guy…I’ve been to France and had interactions in a couple of cities. Although parisians are the most pretentious, my experiences were similar in other cities. French people are not warm in my experience.
Also, NY tends to have a reputation that people are not kind, but I don’t find that to be true. Living in NY for 25+ years now. I’ve had family visit me from Europe and most of them say the same thing, they find it strange that NYers have a reputation to be rude but when they needed help people went out of their way to help. NYers just come off as rude cause everyone is always in a rush, and because it such a big city with different crowds, there is a lot of crazy people.
Have been to Paris and currently in New York for a vacation. New Yorkers are WAY nicer. In fact, the only nasty people I’ve encountered so far have been French tourists lol.
You feel that way because of what wemby just explained.
In the US, someone you don’t know would act friendly and warm from the beginning, but it’s mostly superifcial and that layer is hard to shed off even with people you thought were friends. It’s the US social standards.
In France it’s a lot more down to earth and restrained in small social circles rather than a big welcoming one. The social standard is outward ‘pudeur’. Basically, if they don’t know you, they won’t bother you nor will they bother with you. It’s not being cold, just a different culture. The good thing about this is that when you cross that first barrier, then you’ll have a stronger and way way way more real and honest relationship.
It’s not one is bad the other is good, just 2 different cultures that need to respected for what they are. If you go from one to the other, you need to adapt.
Never experienced this at all. Been there 10+ times and the Parisian’s have always been friendly I’ve found.
And Parisians, especially on the younger side, are pretty chill if you know a tiny bit of French and can perform some of the unwritten etiquette of French social interactions. I think it mostly about them feeling like you as a foreigner are making an effort and not expecting them to pander to you. There’s definitely some jerks like any big city.
I get the whole wanting tourists to make an effort to “fit in”, but my experience with the reverse is that French people also make zero effort to fit in.
Hung out with a French dude in London and he asked me if us Americans thought the French were assholes. I said they have a reputation but he told me that it was just Parisians that were assholes and the rest of the country is very nice.
I used to live in Grenoble (mid sized city in south east france near the Alps) and believed this myth until I moved to Paris for a better salary and discovered a city with 13 million and the most diverse demographic in France isn’t monolithic. Parisians are just less free since the cost of living is much higher, so time and money is more precious.
Nope, it’s not just Paris. I work for a company owned by the French (not based in Paris) and they are all rude as fuck (apart from like 2-3 people). Also currently in New York for a vacation where a bunch of French people have come over for the marathon. All of the rudest and worst tourists have been French.
I’d say its partially ppl being annoyed by tourists in places that are overcrowded by tourists, happens in a lot of touristy places, not just capitals. Milan, Shanghai, Munich or Marseille have kinda similar reputation.
People in Paris aren’t even that bad. They are just city people who are busy and in a rush. Tourists also often forget that the locals they meet are just having another day, not some amazing experience in a different place.
With that being said, French people from outside of Paris with high English levels were some of the nicest people I met in my near 10 years living abroad.
My sister in law is French so I’m there quite a lot, in the towns it’s very welcoming, the city’s I’ve been in have all been awful but the city’s in France aren’t great in general.
Both things can be true.
What the hell does that have to do with literally any of this? Lol
May be true but the point he’s making is that in the USA the social interactions are “shallow” which as someone who spent a year in the USA and many years in Europe I tend to agree.
Interacting with strangers in the USA has this sort of “fake polite” sort of vibe that coming from Europe it’s a bit hard to explain. Like cashiers asking how your day is going is considered quite weird in europe for example.
I think he’s saying that he feels a deeper connection with Europeans since they’re more likely to be direct in what they want vs putting on a salesman smile and trying to make you happy.
Like cashiers asking how your day is going is considered quite weird in europe for example.
I understand what you’re saying, but I also feel like these types of interactions just dont exist at all in Europe. I’d also argue that a lot of times people are genuinely interested in creating conversation in a way that Europeans aren’t interested in at all. I think in US big cities it’s more similar to Europe in that people won’t even bother with the small talk.
The difference is, that the small talk is a lot more formalised in the US, in most parts of Europe you simply don’t ask how your day is going if they are not intrested, while it happens all the time/more often in the US.
I’m from the US and live in Europe and I miss the warmness, openness, and general kindness of Americans. I never thought it was “fake polite” I just think it’s port of our social culture.
Been to Paris / France multiple times - I don’t speak French but wife does since mom was a French teacher. Ironically - wife would speak French to people we meet , they speak French back and when I eventually looked lost , the native French speaker would switch to English to include me - this has happen countless times and kind of flipped the impression I originally had … again just my personal expirence being there multiple times .
Times change, ppl still stick to old cliches, traveling to france today is a lot different then 20+ years ago, most/many younger french ppl especially in touristy areas speak decent english today.
I hope Wemby expands on this more in the interview. Sometimes he can use words a little off from what he means or not really understand the tone of the word. (Like when he said NY’s offense isn’t sophisticated. I think based on what else he said, he meant that as a compliment. Ie..it isn’t pretty, but it’s more effective than some teams who are known for having a pretty offense)
So I wonder if he’s just talking about the expected small talk that happens a lot in America. He strikes me as someone who wouldn’t love that.
What does being unwelcoming to tourists have to do with the shallowness of social interactions?
The last time I was in Paris as a non french speaker I met multiple people who were so fuckin friendly and wanted to have engaging, deep conversations it was actually one of my favorite things about the city
Up North and Paris absolutely, South of France is splendid and full of lovely warm people.
Paris is my least favorite city I’ve been to visit, despite the architecture, history and museums.
They dont bother to hide their disdain for rude tourists.
Paris is one example and even then I don’t think it’s as unwelcoming as people suggest. Outside of Paris, everyone’s really lovely in my experience. My partner is French so I’ve been all over the country and whenever i practice my bad French on locals they are incredibly patient and nice, I’ve seen genuine joy on French peoples face when I try speak their language and when I have had to switch to English I’ve never encountered an issue.
They literally are not? It’s why Paris is like the most visited city in the world.
went this summer and had a lovely time in paris and marseille. one rude waiter one time but otherwise it was normal
Ridiculous. Then don’t ever bother visiting and stick to what your “hear”, smart guy.
Sounds good to me.
“I’m not saying he’s wrong, but he’s wrong”
They are. And I know people are saying it’s just Paris, but I’ve traveled throughout France and although Paris is the worst, they’re pretty pretentious and arrogant in other cities as well.
Been to Paris, Menton to St Tropez and in between, Biaritz in the North near the Spanish border, some other towns nearby Biaritz.
Also, just like my experiences are very limited so are Wembys.
Non-Native French speakers*
My wife has a colleague who is a PhD, lived in Paris for the past 20 years, completely fluent in French. But she’s American so she doesn’t quite have the perfect accent. People still refuse to respond to her in French.
Because people are used to foreigners who say a line, you answer in french and they look like a deer in front of a car. People are not used to go off script. So people are just used to treat all foreigners with english
Because it’s more accommodating of an obvious foreigner.
I went to France and everyone was very nice, in English. I think this is way overblown.
Strawmanning. Also, he he specifically didn’t say France is better in that regard. Just said “other places” are better…
One of my strongest held takes is that French people just fucking suck. And it’s not even only French people being mad at non-French speakers being annoying in France.
Currently in New York and there is clearly a shit load of French people here for the New York marathon. Every single French person I’ve encountered has been unnecessarily rude.
When I see people, I ask, “Hey, how are you doing?”And in response I will get a, “hey” or a “hi”.But I am really asking how are you doing?
In New York it’s a rhetorical question, more like a hello of sorts.
That’s what it is in all of the US, just another way of saying hello
I’m terrified of the collapsing yet towering social structure that is slowly killing humanity. How’s your day?
I ate pizza so there’s that
Well that’s good. Anything existential like our friend above or that’s all? Cause if just pizza:
Nice.
Slightly shriveled and to the left but anyway can I get a #5 medium fry and lemonade
This was how a guy at the bar basically greeted me last night, cool dude we’re hanging out this week
Leave off the “doing”
I’ve noticed this plenty of times in the past too. All I can imagine is that “how are you doing” feels rote and routine to most people. Basically a generic greeting. Letting the emphasis end on the “you” (them) part kind of seems to encourage people to actually say something about themselves, even if it still isn’t much.
I’m imagining somebody at Spurs facility saying to Wemby “hey what’s up” and he goes into a detailed explanation on his morning and his plans for the upcoming weekend
It’s called a phatic expression. If you’re sincerely asking how a person is doing ask how they’re actually doing.
Some people here are missing that “having shallower social interactions” doesn’t mean Americans are shallower than other people. 95% of my interactions with Americans were very friendly, but they were always very shallow.
It seems to me that Americans usually don’t want to share their actual opinion on something immediately; they’ll just give you some general answer.
Obviously, it’s different if you’re good friends with someone or on the internet, where everyone has an opinion about anything
Americans are not culturally deep in general and are a bit emotionally infantile compared to many others around the world from my experience of living here. There isn’t much they can talk about that involved knowledge of culture or history or global politics or even philosophy. The corporate work culture is a big reason why. People here mostly live to work and work to live.
I’m surprised you were able to type this being how far up your own ass you are.
You can get butthurt all you want but I actually lived outside continent let alone the country unlike most if not all of the people getting butthurt.
Do me a favor and say butthurt again.
Murica got its problems but u never realize true otherness until you go to a country wo much diversity.
This is 100% true, though France has a ton of diversity
Some of the redditbrain takes I see about America are wild, they’ve either never been to a monocultural place or live in one and are fed propaganda about American people
Wasn’t shittin on France btw. Ik western democracies tend to be good in europe
Let’s be real amerikkka is the most racist place on earth
Definitely not true. Parts of America are racist for sure but as a whole we are probably one of the most progressive nations. It’s a shame that there is a vocal group in America who is hellbent on reversing that
There’s a lot of places in the US that don’t have much diversity either. It’s a big place.
Tru
I’ve been to places in the USA where white people touch my curly hair (without asking) like they’re from an unconctacted tribe and I’m the first ginger they’ve ever seen
Ginger that supports Chicago over Boston 🤔
I’m black
Can confirm. Went to Shenzen. Did not see a single BLM, No Kings, or KKK event.
Ik this is kicking the hornet’s nest but i wouldnt call what the usa has “diversity”. Like i realize to americans diversity means people have different skin colors. But to me diversity means cultural diversity, and i don’t think the usa is very diverse
You don’t know what you’re talking about
Like a country like india to me is diverse. Each region has its own history, its own culture, its own native language, often its own religion or interpretation of a larger religion, etc. There is nothing remotely similar in the USA. It’s one country with the same larger anglo-saxon culture where apart from 1st and 2gen migrants practically everyone is a monolingual english speaker. Yeah someone says soda instead of x or y in a different state. Yes someone has a different speed limit or law in x or y state. That’s not comparable. Even in smaller countries. Like spain, there’s a catalan speaking region with its own history, culture, language, festivals etc, a galician region, a basque region etc. That’s diversity. Not having a x% of ancestry from this or that country.
lol ok buddy
That’s why the U.S. is generally considered a melting pot, while a country like Canada is a mosaic.
U kicked my nest!
My deepest relationships are on r/nba.
Still remember our first encounter 13 years ago friend.
🫂
Eh, people need to understand that he is comparing to him in France, especially when he was younger and less well known.
Contextual experience does shape how we see things. Though people rarely realize it
His comment about being judged for being ambitious is really important. In Europe there is actually a stigma around being “successful” in the way many Americans define success.
Mbappe has said similar things about the US. how he likes the mindset here because it rewards ambition in a way that Europe does not
I think almost everywhere else being too ambitious is almost always connected with doing something illegal or less moral.
Explains a lot tbh
Can you elaborate on the stigma a little more?
Many people on Reddit hate hearing about others success lol.
Yeah in America success is applauded from my experience and I’ve had multiple family members live in US for extended periods aswell who said the same. Got a nice car and drive around it people will compliment it. In Germany if your successful and flaunt it people will call you a poser and get very jealous.
People who never lived on both continents won’t truly understand. He is 100% right. People in Europe are envious and will list everything that can go wrong when you come up with a business idea.But on the other hand they are usually genuinely interested in you when they ask you something.
Wait but many political subreddits here on Reddit tells me USA is an actual 3rd world country??????
Le 3rd world country in Gucci belt
Nobody hates America more than American Redditors
Reddit is far far left wing. Their candidate lost. So it’s the end of America. Simple as really. It’s just another echo chamber
Who is our far far left candidate who lost?
Didn’t say the candidate was. But go on keep trying to twist words
Lmao democrats are 2000s right
Current republicans are far right
You’re so lost
If you think this site isn’t a super left wing echo chamber your the one who’s lost
Stfu Meg
USA is a great for the wealthy, which wemby happens to be
Outside of the healthcare situation, which admittedly sucks, the USA is an amazing place to be basically anywhere from lower-middle-class to rich, and even for poor individuals there’s quite a lot of help available.
I’d much rather me in a socialist country as a member of the lower middle class
More social support, socialized health care, affordable education, more vacation days
It’s so easy to climb to upper middle class in the US. Go to school and be an engineer or something in STEM. Immediately six figures.
He’s a 7 foot billion dollar athlete. Id bet he isn’t getting the true experience, ya think?
Tall Poppy Syndrome in Australia.
Actually a great answer tbh
I will say one of the things that I love most about America is our work ethic but it’s also one of the things that I hate about us too, like why can’t we all just take the entire month of August off like they do in France? 😩
I’ll be honest I haven’t worked in almost a year (US)
Corporations got to print money.
Too many live paycheck to paycheck. Then there’s the bunch that don’t agree with the protests and then finally the ones that think you’re a lazy commie for wanting actual change.
Why would work ethic be the thing you love the most
No, I’d argue it’s actually not performative at all. As a nation, culturally, we absolutely work more than most other industrialized nations similar to ours — but that’s also because our cost of living is so high, and we need employment to get health insurance, and most of us live paycheck to paycheck so we can’t afford NOT to work or take the kinds of vacations that you see in developed countries across Western Europe, for example.
not really lol.
Ok
I work for a US company that is owned by the French, but my team is not based in either country. Our US team absolutely works a million times harder. The French team are the literal stereotype of lazy Frenchmen.
Every job I’ve been to you work if you’re there. It’s not like people just sit around all day unless you’re one of the few lucky ones. Basically every industrial blue collar job your working at a decent pace up to hard pace the entire time you’re there. That or a supervisor sees you slacking a few times and then you’re out the door. So not really sure where you’re getting that tbh.
I can only speak from what Ive seen on here but I have seen quiet a few people on here that work for international companies and that seems to be a pretty common theme. Americans tend to get work done a lot faster by most accounts.
And even if that isn’t the case that means we are getting paid overtime to do the same amount of work someone would be in 40 hours like they say. Thats not a bad deal from a lot of our perspectives either.
Typical Frenchman
Or maybe, he has only been in America when he was rich and famous and everyone is shallow and interacting with him to gain something
Wemby thinks we’re a bunch of dumb fucks, and who am I to argue otherwise.
I’m not from the US, but have plenty of friends and coworkers from there. I think I know what he means.
Americans will talk a lot about nothing. The weather, sports, tv, celebrities, clothing, jokes, fluff like “oh buddy, ain’t that the truth”, just kind of meaningless filler. They’re very reluctant to talk about anything substantial, unless they’re in very closed circles of trusted friends.
In other countries, there’s a lot less fluff, and more discussion of ideas, and talking about yourself on more than a performative surface level. Talking about your challenges, your hopes, how you feel about them, what you hope for, etc.
To be honest, I’m not gonna tell someone I just met 40 minutes ago my personal ideologies, problems or opinions. It’s really not that deep most of the time, it’s just casual conversation lol
I’m 99% sure all of these takes from Europeans about how they have such superior conversations to Americans is purely based on their only US interactions coming via them being tourists.
What deep and meaningful conversations are you expecting to have with your fucking Starbucks barista? No shit it’s more shallow than the conversations you have with your friends and family back home.
There are levels to that but in a lot of southern european cultures this would be expected to you in a social setting. Talk about smth that inspires, motivates, indignates you. Offer a slice of your personality for your company to disect it and sometimes roast it in good fun
Average American really doesn’t give a shit probably that’s why we all live in our own little bubbles doing our own thing
I agree with this. Honestly I’d like to know what you consider meaningful or substantial. If it ends up being politics then the media and government have basically brainwashed both sides of our country against each other. So most people are reluctant to bring up politics because it just leads to anger. Which is not at all how it should be.
Yup. Much more personal in European countries, and people don’t generally mind. I prefer that in a way just because it also leans into its own “filler”, where you’re actually talking about serious things but in a relaxed way. Hard to describe, but hard to find in the U.S.
Fucking love Wemby
Tbh if Wemby wasn’t an insanely famous basketball player he would definitely have more meaningful social interactions with people
He’s right. Many people just don’t give a shit about anyone else. It is isn’t the robotic shallowness of our interaction, it’s often straight up hatred for others/strangers. Wild times when empathy is the enemy.
I bought this homeless guy some snacks and a drink at wawa the other day and there was a cop inside who started yelling at me, saying the typical “you’re enabling him! He should get a job!” type brainless heartless garbage. Extra fucked up that he was raising his voice and puffing out his chest at me with a fucking gun on his waist, fucking asshole.