[Haynes] There has been “growing frustration” within the Phoenix Suns locker room over the lack of a true point guard to organize the offense.
I’m so old I remember when they had 3 starting caliber PGs and fumbled them all
Good ol’ days of Dragic, Thomas and Bledsoe, right there with you, mate.
Dragic is my favorite post Wade player for the Heat. I thank the suns for that
Dragic was a fucking demon man. Dude lived for quieting down the garden, fuckin asshole.
Rubio too
Brooo I feel like anyone who had Dragic on their team really saw how good he was! Dude was a beast
Rockets also fumbled Dragic and Lowry combined backcourt right before they peaked.
The night we drafted him, it was late as hell and I’m watching his highlights and all of a sudden he just dunked so damn hard, I got excited and thought “this dude might be special” he truly was.
“The garden”
Be so for fucking real right now bro.
I still believe if you guys had Dragic. He would help you beat the Lakers in 2020 finals
I believe that or bam not getting injured. But also I wish him and Bosh could have played atleast 1 game together.
It at least goes 7 games
You mean Raptors legend Goran Dragic?
You mean bulls legends goran dragic?
Only heat jersey I own. Love him
Deron Williams deserves a lot of credit for that.
D.Will was taking his time signing a 5y/$100m Max w/ the Nets vs going back home to Dallas.
Nets had Dragic and Illyasova lined up to sign and gave D.Will one last chance.
D.Will took the 5yr Max and then his ankles shattered like glass and was eventually bought out few years later.
Dragic torching the Bucks in the bubble lives in my head rent free
Dragic on the Heat was so cathartic. Watched that guy go from bench warmer who got sent out with DJ Strawberry to that legendary Spurs 2010 Game 3 to key piece on a Finals team with ya’ll
always wonder how the 2020 Finals go if Dragic isn’t injured for it, man was 21-4-5 for the Heat that postseason.
Tragic Dragic. We hate his personality. Decent player.
Gooder old days of Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash.
Man, I thought he was talking about Kidd, Nash and KJ until he said “fumbled them all”
That roster was such a muddle of guys, mainly due to the haul with the Charles Barkley trade.
Looks like something the Suns are used to doing
Traded Dragic and Thomas so they could spend a shit ton of money on Brandon Knight
You mean the guy from the DeAndre Jordan dunk video?
You mean Derrick Rose crossover and dunk video.
They also had Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, and Steve Nash on one team in… 1997?
Went from that to prime Marbury too if I remember. And then back to prime Nash. Crazy run of point guard talent
I was going to say, jkidd, Penny and kevin Johnson?
Loved Dragic. I’ll never understand why they prioritized Bledsoe lol
It wasnt the best team but I loved the 3 point guard build. It was just fun to watch sometimes.
Kidd, Nash, and Johnson.
dragic led suns had a 49 win season and were 9th seed in the west lmao. wild times
And then when the 3 guard experiment didn’t work, they got rid of the 2 that ended up being the best and brought in Brandon Knight
I dont wana be here
The “I don’t wanna be here” controversy days
Didn’t he say he was at the barber and that’s what he was referring to when he first got asked about it? 😂😂
I think he was with his wife at a salon or something is what he claimed lol.
My heart is in Phx.
Lol reminds me of the klutch propaganda at the time that bledsoe was a like mini lebron so should be getting payed more
Which time?
Penny nash and kidd? Oops Jason Kidd not Penny*
Goran bledsoe and and pizza guy?
Penny Hardaway mentioned, god damn.
Such an injury what if. He was the fucking truth when he was healthy.
Penny and Grant Hill. What could have been.
Preach. Electric before the injuries.
Add Brandon Roy too.
Old Magic fans have been through it. That TMac Grant pairing could have been awesome
KJ, rookie Nash, and Ason kidd
I see what you did there…
wait. do you guys call IT as pizza guy too?
I once asked him if he was okay with that nickname and he said it was fine.
I think after the trade happened our sub Reddit use that nickname for a bit
Long before 3 guard lineups were cool
Very similar situation, the front office followed up a season the team overperformed with a head scratching roster change and look worse.
Holy, you mean Goran, Bledsoe, and IT? LOOOOOVED that suns team
That team was so fun with those 3 guard lineups
Point guardians of the galaxy right?
GM should check if Ricky Rubio is in shape.
Love how there’s multiple answers to this depending on which generation you grew up on
Kevin Johnson, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash?
FUCK SARVER.
I’m so old, I remember when KD was on the Suns
Kidd/Nash/Hardaway am I right
“I Dont wanna be here”
Then they tried to make Book the PG. ended up getting Rubio and having success, got CP3 and had a lot of success.
Then promptly went back to no point guards.
It’s a cognitive defect at this stage.
Now we just have 3+ starting SG but we’re fumbling in the opposite way by trying to keep them all
Im surprised they didnt make a move for Ja tbh. But yeah true PGs now a days tend to be untouchable, or bad bench players, hard to acquire
They’ve definitely become underrated in recent years. The trend of making your elite SG into a combo guard so you can play more big wings is a good one. When it works. Unfortunately, it’s not that easy to learn elite PG skills.
Minnesota learned that the hard way. Tried turning Ant into a PG and he just couldn’t crack it.
Felt like that was a necessary experiment though with Conley aging out of the rotation, at the very least it gave Ant some experience running the one. Not a long-term solution obviously but seemed like about as good of a bandaid as anything else for them
I’m sure that will work out quite well in the long run. Similar to what happened to Cooper Flagg, I think running point definitely improved his offensive game, even if he isn’t playing PG in the long term.
The playmaking reps he gained from the experience will still be useful tbf. It’s always good to have guys who can pass and make quick passing reads regardless of whether they’re the point guard.
What if instead you make your SG a combo guard and instead of surrounding him with big wings you just add more small guards. Because that’s what Phoenix did, at least Minny could overwhelm teams with physicality and length.
OKC also addressed their size concerns by playing two 7 fters after Dallas overwhelmed them with size
Bad teams are always begging for a point guard and then when finally get a good one they don’t appreciate him. The Suns did this with Chris Paul.
i mean the wiz are litetally doing did this w trae young. trae and 4 lengthy defenders can be awesome. aj is 6’9, kyshawn is 6’8, they have ad at the 4 like he prefers, and sarr at 7
Yet Portland has 4 elite one’s 😭😆😆
Scoot is elite? I like him more than most, but it’s hard to see “elite” right now. The first thing I thought when I saw this post was “I wonder what we could get?”
Dame is 100% a SG playing PG so I don’t know about that.
I can offer them a lightly used Trae Young but they would have to send us Khaman in order for it to be worth taking (I assume) Jalen Green
I’m so glad Jalen Green makes as much as he does because I could see a scenario where Dundon justifies trading Scoot for him because we need a SG
Dang, Ja would have been perfect for the suns
Collin Gillespie was solid last year, why is he coming off the bench now?
Because they think Jalen Green is worthy to start.
Well then they ain’t thinking
He is a fine starter… on team who needs a SG. Not on a team that already has Devin Booker.
Nah. Watched him and wanted to believe in him for 4 years in Houston. He’s not a good a SG either. In the end he clearly just lacks BBIQ. He just can’t process the game well enough to be a role player, and he’s not good enough to dominate the ball. Even the high end version of him, which is Zach Lavine, has never really won anything. He’s someone who needs the ball in his hands to succeed, and he’s not good enough at that to warrant the touches.
I remember when he was on a team as a SG and was just an inefficient chucker who was bad from 3, 39th in PPG for players who played over 41 games, of the top 50 scorers only 8 players had less APG than him.
I want him to do well, bet he screams 6th man. For sure too early to write off an 24 YO, but he seems not like a good starter IMO.
I feel like Jalen Green for Ja trade was on the table this summer. Idk why Suns didn’t pull the trigger for that.
Trigger lol
Well he could score 40…. Or just blow the game. It’s a gamble!
He can score 40 and still blow the game
Just as Adam Silver—Brought to you by Kalshi—intended!
Have to maintain whatever’s left of Green’s trade value.
to quote my boy squints polledorous, “if you were thinking you wouldn’t have thought that”
Bc they’d rather shoehorn green into the starting lineup
Green fucking sucks. I don’t get how that dude ended up in commercials and shit. Dude is a scrub
There’s the politics of Jalen making $35m a year and coming off the bench. The other issue is Collin is small as shit and gets run over on defense against starters. I know Jalen has his struggles, but he’s actually a solid on-ball defender.
It’s crazy how disrespected D book has been. Any other superstar and the team would be bending over backwards so they don’t demand a trade.
Booker has came up with garbage around him, helped turn the franchise around with the help of CP3 and then the new owners threw that away to chase stars and now they’re back to wasting his career. He’s gonna be 30 tomorrow and still has to play with Brooks and Green as his help. It’s quite insane the roster they’re putting around him.
Booker has outright said he doesn’t want to leave, so they’re not really under much pressure, not that they really have much ammo to make any more moves anyway.
Ishbia keeps doubling down on his mistakes. He has this “get a little better every year” mentality.
It’s funny because our front office is actually really good at finding random talent out in the wild. Goodwin, Collin, Oso, Royce, Grayson, Brooks. They all exceeded expectations here. But we also go after these forced trades where we don’t have much leverage, and that’s when it’s catastrophic (KD, Beal for CP3, Ayton/Camara for Nurkic/Grayson, Miles for Grayson/Royce).
If anyone ever needs convincing that there are numerous people in the corporate world that earn millions just to be dumber than your average dumbass, then look at that Beal trade. Not a single person I saw said that shit would work. Not one. Gimme 500k once and I’ll tell you to not make that trade and you’ll never have to pay me again.
Gillespie is solid but he’s not that kind of guard really. He’s more of a Payton Pritchard 3pt bomber type.
He doesn’t really play like Pritchard at all, the comparison only gets made because they’re both white.
Pritchard is almost Brunson-lite in that he has a really efficient inside game, and uses fakes and footwork to create shots around the rim.
Collin’s inside game is almost non-existent and relies heavily on off ball movement, handoffs and screens to score.
No the comparison is made because they are small, good, guards that take a relatively high volume of 3PA while handling the ball a fair amount, but don’t do as much traditional “table setting” and organizing, or just generally passing, as you’d expect for a 6’1-ish NBA player, and have had great success as sixth men.
Jalen Brunson takes twice (almost three times) as many 2PA as 3PA, where as Pritchard and Gillespie both take more 3’s than 2’s, even last year when Pritchard upped his 2PAr. Pritchard is clearly the comp.
He plays more like Curry or Klay off the screens with obviously much less depth to his game. He loves that two step into pulling up off screen action, it’s like his signature move. He has a couple Pritchard mid range spots but most of his inside game is off hustle opportunities or just being faster than his cover. He’s pretty weak in the half-court at creating his own shot unlike Pritchard
Because he’s a one dimensional player too, he’s not a playmaker.
I ask myself this every day.
Teams figured him out for the most part. I still would start him though. Nova boys
Ja Morant was right there man.
I honestly think the Suns players wanted Ja but the FO wanted to hang onto Jalen for whatever reason
They could’ve traded Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neale for Ja Morant instead of Miles Bridges.
Considering the Grizzlies literally took a bad contract for Ja Morant, they would’ve likely accepted that deal as well. They were trying to give him up for anything to the point they literally hurt themselves.
That wouldn’t have worked salary wise. Ja makes \(42 million this year and those two only make \)28 million
hurt themselves how?
Traded a young all star level player for a much older expensive vet and no draft picks. Ik Ja has the off court issues and the injury history but they could’ve gotten a better return than that
Salary cap issue
they said “true point guard” Ja is certainly not that
Averaged 8 assists in 3 of the last 4 years, 6’2, creates most of his shots
If that’s not a true point guard, you might as well call Chris Paul and tell him you have a starting spot for him.
Ja is still a score first guard in his prime. But he was definitely a near elite playmaker with his length and ability to collapse a defense whenever he wanted to get his teammates a kickout 3. Something that booker would clearly benefit from
Not really in college he was more of pass first pg first that changed fast since he was the best player on that team. Same situation here than JJJ wasn’t much of a scoring machine and others weren’t either. So he took onto that role that he was a scoring pg who can have high assists game outbreaks. The last few years you can clearly see that his apg are rising and ppg are less due to his change in playing style.
1%er cmon now
It’s funny how I only shove that in their face when I disagree with them. I wonder if that makes me a hypocrite.
What is he then?
It is strange that they saw what Booker could do with an elite PG in Chris Paul and then basically told Booker that he had to be the PG
Booker has had garbage rosters around him for 80% of his career in Phoenix. He must really love the city cuz I feel like most other players of his caliber would have moved on by now.
Not to mention the stale nachos and flat soda. Don’t get me started on the seats…
no offense
but when you type like this, do you genuinely think you’re being funny
“no offense, but imma try to shit on you”
Ah yes, somebody uncultured on Inside the NBA.
https://youtu.be/Gp-f7ece-UU?si=sykNJNbxSS9Nh37R
He definitely loves Scottsdale
They tried with Tyus Jones. I think they should have jumped on the Ja Morant train when he was being shopped
trying with tyus jones is not trying very hard
Gonna say that wasn’t Phoenix’s fault. Dude fell off a fucking cliff after some solid ass seasons on Memphis and Washington
He didn’t look great in Washington honestly.
It sort of was tho lol. He’s a bad shooter and bad defender and was expected to start. The only way for him to be even semi useful is on the ball, and he’s not even close to good enough to be on the ball more than Booker or KD, so that sort of just made him useless out there. It was a predictably bad move imo. I feel like ppl overrate certain ball handlers like him.
tyus jones is a bench caliber 6th man and they put him into a starting lineup of 3 ball dominant scorers, 2 of which are selfish and only care about their points. he was cooked from the start
His numbers weren’t even that bad, people just expected him to have more of an impact because he was underrated for so long. The issue was Nurkic not being good enough along with KD iso ball (and Beal sucked) which Booker also started doing way more and lowkey is why he kind of regressed a bit along with being forced to be point. It takes him the whole shot clock to get to his spots when a good PG would have set him up easily without him exerting so much energy to iso or do the defender at his hip thing
Skipping over Hali in the draft was stupid then and even more stupid now
i think they already had cp3 then
yeah but he was old, it felt natural to suggest hali learn under cp3 for a season or two before taking the reins
Wouldve contributed immediately off the bench too for their finals run
The worst part is they didn’t even give Jalen Smith a chance. Monty kept him in bench hell and he got traded before he ever got real minutes. And now ironically we desperately need someone like him or Camara for our bench. God I hate this team
It’s been their downfall since they got rid of CP3 frankly. All the hype for the Beal, KD, Booker trio was doomed because they had 3 dudes who effectively did the same thing and no PG. It really does feel like basic roster construction escapes teams sometimes
it’s hard to do what chris paul did
We were in a tight spot when CP3 got too old. Ayton didn’t pan out, so we really just weren’t contenders anymore. Ishbia bought the team and had a hard time accepting that, so he blew all of our assets for KD. We really just needed to wait it out a couple of years and find the pieces to regroup. We still had Book, Mikal, CamJ, and would’ve had Camara. That’s 4 guys that would get 25+ minutes on a contender. Get off of Ayton’s contract and regroup.
In hindsight it was really frustrating to see us gut our core to make a super team. Pretty much every super team happened in free agency, or in a trade that involved getting off of a bad contract. Not giving up the team’s 2nd and 3rd best players.
People say it’s the Beal trade, but lowkey the Nurkic trade is one that actually ruined us. Any decent asset for Ayton without trading Camara would have been a whole different team
And Rubio
some of it is on booker not playing as well as everyone knows he can especially on the olympics when he really thrived as just a great all around player
but the suns have absolutely have not been doing him any favours either
I don’t think Booker can ever be blamed again, he’s taken on too much shit on that Suns team. Idc if he’s terrible, he’s owed to be terrible lol
Booker is the focal point of the Suns offense, he’s one of the most double teamed players in the league. On Team USA he’s a role player.
I just don’t think Booker is the kind of player that makes his teammates better. He’s a great individual and he’s put together a couple really good seasons since the Dallas series loss but people expected him to elevate his game to that level consistently and he just never did.
The story of Devin Booker’s fucking career. The one time they had a good point guard, they made the finals.
But no let’s continue making him the point guard and starting Jalen green next to him
Well they had a good PG before CP3 came in with Rubio, he really elevated them when they went on that run
Yep Rubio was the first great Suns PG before Chris Paul
I know you’re talking about the modern Suns but this was still funny to read.
Rubio was the Suns first ever great international white pass first PG
No I’m not
Imagine if they had drafted Luka instead of Deandre Ayton lol
Would’ve been an all time back court
They also hit a big 3 to cut the lead to 42
I mean yeah Chris Pauls don’t grow on trees and he was also the teams best player during that push
Trading Grayson Allen + Royce O’Neal + unprotected 1st round pick for Miles Bridges told me everything I need to know about how this team is being run.
Absolutely dreadful trade, gave up a legitimately good player and a solid depth guy who can shoot and our best tradeable pick for a dude who sucks and has 0 impact. We gave up the best guy in the deal and our pick. Fuckin ishbia man, dude can’t help himself and made this braindead trade because bridges went to Michigan state
Can’t even say you did it for the culture when Miles is a piece of shit
Absolutely insane
doubt the front office will notice. these are the same people who saw the success of last years squad and decided the path to improvement was to trade away their two best 3P shooters (with a frp) for an undersized 4 who can’t shoot, pass, rebound or play defense and is a POS on top of that.
Miles bridges is such a bum player and its wild ur fo was tricked into paying for him
They weren’t tricked, ishbia is just a fuckin idiot and wanted him for years because he went to Michigan state.
Ishbia fuckin blows and I’m tired of pretending like he’s a good owner just because he made the shitty concessions a little bit cheaper
Bridges trade after all bs about culture and winning just blew all that good will up in smoke. The worst part is it’s a bad moral trade and a bad basketball trade so its double dumb. Oh and Grayson Allen and Royce O’Neal were both individually better than Bridges for us last year considering the contracts
they didn’t even have to get tricked, Ishbia been wanting Bridges since he bought the team
Sure, Miles is bad at basketball and a massive piece of shit, but have you considered…. Michigan State!
Kim Jong Un would be starting at the 5 for the Suns if he went to Michigan State.
Already prepared to have washed Draymond on a 3 year, $75m deal next year.
They’ll notice and end up overpaying to bring in Dejounte Murray
Don’t. Don’t give me hope.
Jalen Green for Ja Morant would have made so much sense idk why they didn’t do that. Not like Memphis was even asking for anything lol
Trae also went for peanuts. Lamelo went for less than I thought he would. Maybe the Suns assumed the point guard fire sale would continue.
Memphis doesn’t want Green
He would’ve gotten in the way of MVP Ty Jerome.
I was screaming that all offseason, Phoenix could have easily made that trade in my opinion, Memphis took on Jerami Grant contract just to get rid of ja morant, you can’t convince me that Memphis would not have had interested in Jalen green.
Memphis absolutely had no interest in Jalen Green. He doesn’t fit the culture and his style of play would conflict with the system in place. It’s one of those “obvious” trades that people pushed for months but never made any sense from Memphis’ perspective.
You might know better than me because I am not a Memphis fan, so I can’t say for sure you might be right, it might just be a situation where it looks obvious on paper but it doesn’t fit what Memphis is trying to do with their basketball culture. Memphis is paying jerami grant a lot of money to be a $30 million dollar six man, so that was one of my reason for thinking why not have Jalen green for similar money.
Cause Jalen Green is cheeks.
Bc culture, like Ishbia and Durant said 😬
Too late now, Ja’s had a great start to the season and Portland is trying to win
Plus we already like bad character players. Well our front office does at least.
Well at least you can enjoy all the winning they bring
If by winning, you mean Michigan State dropout experience, then you are spot on
Plus Brooks and Ja played great together in Memphis
Nobody wants Jalen Green. The flashes of talent are real, but he’s just brutally stupid.
That’s why he would be traded for Ja Morant. Also flashes of talent but brutally stupid
jalen green makes ja look like a scholar
By scholar do you mean school shooter 😭
I get it, but Ja is way more aware on the court. He’s actually got a pretty high bbiq these days, and can see and make the right pass. Jalen Green plays like he can’t see the rest of the court at all
Keep talking that smack
Not sure Memphis would have gone for that, Jalen Green really doesn’t fit what they look for. Plus if he picks up his player option, which I think he will, contracts basically the same for him and Jerami
Grant’s better fit than Green, doubt it. Only way is if Phoenix attaches assets, for example the pick they used in the Miles Bridges trade.
Blazers/Morant in honeymoon phase. He’ll derail mentally or physically at some point. He’s the scorpion
Even then, they gave up practically a bag of chips for him so it’s definitely an experiement Suns could have ‘gambled’ on.
Ja morant isnt organizing an offense
That’s actually exactly what he does. Maybe you should watch him play this season
Hell last year in the few games he played his potential assist numbers were only behind Jokic
You don’t know ball at all lmao
He kinda can.
Setting aside his off court stuff, he’s still a top guy in the league when he’s healthy.
The downside of Ja is his off court antics + the fear of injury because of how he plays. When he plays and he’s healthy, he’s still great.
Point guard in name/size only
Besides shooting he’s got prototypical point guard skills lmao
Just blatantly false lol he’s leading our team in assists
Ja is crazy good at getting his team mates involved, it also helps you guys have another 2 guys who can get the offense going
Yeah that person is nuts lol. Jas amazing passing vision has been on full display in portland
Can I interest you in 1 Dejounte Murray
This is actually not the worst option except I’m sure New Orleans wants 3 1sts
They’d probably want to ship us Jalen Green, then we’d have the worst group of SGs with Poole, Mathurin, and Green all refusing to pass the ball
That’s exactly what we’d want to do, actually
And I don’t think that makes any sense for the Pels to do unfortunately
If you take Jalen Green or Miles Bridges for him that would be wonderful.
I’d do bridges, I just can’t have Poole, Mathurin, and Green together, just a disgusting guard rotation
Sold
We’ll give you Dennis Schroder and take back Miles Bridges for another unprotected 1st round pick
Fresh out of those but it you call Ishbia the week a pick becomes available, he will happily give it to you.
that’d be a handsome backcourt
Ja for Jalen Green would’ve been a pretty clean swap. Maybe the Grizz would’ve preferred the Portland deal in the end, but looks like a missed opportunity for Phoenix
Take garland
He’s been mentioned on Suns podcasts and by fans
Good. He’s a great player. Idk why clippers fans are hating.
We can fix him!
is garland still good?
Are you the Suns front office by chance? If so-
Amazing. I’m being told most improved award for him this year. I said, wow. I can’t believe it. What a star
nah I’m from the shanghai sharks. We’re looking to upgrade from d’angelo russel.
He’s alright just perpetually has nagging injuries
ya I thought he was great before injuries, but haven’t kept up with him since he came back.
Better than whatever the Suns have right now.
Yes, but apparently some clipper fans expect him to be prime CP3…
Clippers fans turning on Garland after 4 games is just so dumb.
Crazy how they went from Chris Paul (who did everything the Suns need now (when healthy)) to Bradley Beal (Walmart DBook) to Jalen Green (Family Dollar Dbook)
Are there even a half dozen starting caliber true pass first PG’s left in this league?
It’s combo guards and point forwards everywhere nowadays. (Or point C, if you’re Jokic)
Even back in the day most pass first pgs couldn’t really shoot but now that makes them unstartable which is where we’ve ran into this combo guard problem. If you can pass extremely well and shoot you’re a really high value player and probably aren’t getting traded. You almost have to try and have everyone be a capable passer to try to make up for it.
I could see them taking a flyer on Isaiah Collier if Utah is comfortable running DP as the one for bench units, he’s about as pass-first as they come and he’s still very young with some untapped potential
We don’t even need a pass first PG. We need any PG who can simply handle the ball, initiate the offense, and hit the occasional outside shot to keep the defense honest.
Booker lacks the ball handling, struggles a lot with the double team, and isn’t an amazing PnR guy.
Obviously a pass first guy is preferred but not essential. Look at Harden and Mitchell. I don’t think anybody would have ever categorized Harden as pass first PG, even when he was hitting double digit assist numbers.
Harden has been a pass first pg since brooklyn
Yeah, his game has evolved so much since his Houston MVP peak. He knows what his strengths are at this point in his career.
Thats not Gillespie? Due killed it for me in fantasy last season
Hea good but the issue is he really leans on his chemistry with oso, and later in last season teams started guarding him harder and his production Dropped.
He isn’t someone who can facilitate an offence at starter level just yet, he’s the kinda guy you want on the bench he just isn’t good enough for consistent starter level minutes which means there are just large stretches he isn’t in
I mean we have 2 and make it 4 if you count Jrue and dame.
Might be part of the reason we haven’t lost yet. Turns out having multiple guys who can make stuff happen with the basketball, makes your team better at basketball.
Dame isn’t “pass-first,” but he is much more assist-focused than your average PG these days.
… when he even plays PG anymore.
Which is why I specifically qualified him as that. He’d be the best passer on the majority of teams in the league though.
Pacers made the Finals by starting two point guards and having the best bench PG in the league. Having multiple ball handlers on the court is a cheat code in today’s NBA
Ja and who? I hope you’re not talking about Scoot
Dame was absolutely never a true PG. Dude put up 7 assists every year while scoring 30 points. He was a lead scoring guard.
Jrue was more of a true PG, but he’s also 36 and past his prime at this point.
I’m not responding to that shit lol. I’ll let someone else
Idk if you’re counting Ja in there or not but he’s definitely not organizing offense or passing first lol
It’s like you don’t even watch your own team. He diced you guys up with his passing lol
Oh we don’t have the personnel to keep smaller quicker guards in front of us. No doubt. But you can’t use our team as evidence to say Ja is a pass first PG
not organizing offense or passing first lol
Uh, yes is he is? He literally has been so far this season.
Anthony Black could be a shout
I love Black’s game but he’s also a combo guard.
He’s not a PG. He’s a slasher/combo guard. Potentially a pretty good one, but there’s no evidence he’s capable of being an NBA point.
A couple are on the Rockets…
Off the top of my head: Hali, Fox, Harden, Lamelo, and VanVleet, and Brunson are all primarily facilitators that run the offense. I’m sure there are more, especially guards that are more score-first that are still major facilitators like Doncic and SGA.
Edit: dawg I fucking forgot to add the reigning Finals MVP.
And Garland.
We have a slightly used, hair tying Garland
Damn Clippers fans already turning on Garlo?
Not turning on him yet but he is really our best asset. Shit will be better when we don’t have 7 players out, but caring about your hair instead of grabbing the ball opened my eyes up really quick.
I can get past hopping up and down like a child 4 times a game after a turnover but not that.
I would love to see a video of that happening.
Edit: i found it. It’s not so bad 😂.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/lVlml8Qp8E
That jumpball was already flying out of bounds lmao. DG would’ve had to dive for that ball to save it
Dawg, he didn’t even start moving until the ball was already coming down. He absolutely could’ve got that ball if he was actually paying attention
Brother, if he were paying attention, he would have moved toward the tap off the jump like anyone else.
I feel like he’s fine, but he’s the clips only vet who can fetch something decent in a trade, considering the situation
would be wonderful for us but I don’t know if Maluach and Green is getting us Garland, the clippers can probably find a better package but he’d be amazing since Ott was the assistant in Cleveland that emphasized getting the ball out of Mitchell’s hand and giving Garland a bigger role
I only mentioned it because of the Ott fit and the ability to put length around him. He would help ya’ll. But I don’t think Lue will be keen on trading him, he needs to see how Garland and Beal will fail miserably while taking minutes away from Wagler first.
call Schroeder. he balling, but will be ready to switch teams in 2 weeks.
Definitely another team to check off on his list
Obviously no one outside of Suns fans pay enough attention to our team, so I’ll explain it if anyone actually cares:
Last year we worked in the first half of the season because we had a lot of high IQ players that could move the ball well. There was a point in time where we had the most wide-open 3s in the league, and that was with a pretty bad front court that created spacing issues. Booker, Royce, Collin, Jordan Goodwin, Grayson, Oso. All these guys were key players that know how to keep the “blender” going and turn a small advantage into a big one via passing. This was when Jalen Green was out.
We didn’t need a PG last year when things were cooking. Our issue was a lack of talent in the front-court (Mark Williams is solid, but our 4 was either Royce or Brooks, who are too small to be a 4). On defense we would get run over as bigger players would attack the paint over and over. On offense, we just didn’t have a threat in the paint and were forced to shoot middies and 3s. But it still worked decently. It was pretty similar to Charlotte’s offense last year.
This year is different. Jalen and Brooks are not smart offensive players. It’s fine having one of them out there, but with both of them, the offense just falls apart. We also have Maluach starting because both Mark and Oso are out. He’s improving, but at this point in time he is still not a smart player. And finally, Miles doesn’t look smart so far either. Maybe he’ll get used to it, I don’t know. But it’s basically just Booker out there as the only guy who knows how to play High IQ basketball.
My gut tells me it’s guys like Jalen and Miles that are frustrated at the lack of PG, not Booker. Guys who want someone else to the boring shit for them so they can keep deluding themselves into believing they’re first options in the NBA. And I’m guessing Booker is frustrated that these guys don’t know how to play winning basketball.
I live in Arizona so the majority of friends are Suns fans which means I have the….pleasure….to watch them somewhat regularly.I know everyone jumps at the chance to dunk on Ishbia, and maybe he is actually the one, but whoever is the one pulling the strings on roster construction needs to be replaced. I understood the Jalen Green trade because it was to get KD off the team. But I was screaming from the cacti tops that the suns should flip him as soon as they could for literally whatever they could because he’s shown to be a low IQ “hooper.” But because he has highlight plays all my buddies told me I don’t know what I’m talking about.Like you said, the issues were kind of muffled because of his injuries last year but I think it’s compounded now that he’s back and the Suns decided to get a PF version of Jalen Green in Miles Bridges.Also maybe it’s not a popular opinion, but having multiple guys with selfish personalities, low IQ and immaturity wrecks havoc on locker rooms and off court chemistry that affects on court chemistry.They need to keep their young guys/bench players, Dillon and Booker and scrap the others. The grittiness they had last year was infectious and it seemed like they were really cultivating an identity but Jalen and Miles just cause rot wherever they play
Ishbia forced the woeful Bridges trade because he has a hard on for anyone that came out of Michigan. He also forced James Jones to overpay for a declining Durant.
I’ve ran into James Jones a couple of times over the last few years and he’s always so nice and willing to talk ball. He doesn’t deserve this mess
Well he is no longer here and while he wasn’t an awful GM as our fans pretend , he could have avoided this whole mess by just drafting Haliburton
I know everyone jumps at the chance to dunk on Ishbia, and maybe he is actually the one, but whoever is the one pulling the strings on roster construction needs to be replaced.
It’s 100% Ishbia. The guy with the GM title is an MSU yes-man who had no NBA experience and no FO experience when Ishbia hired him.
Even if it was Brian Gregory making the decisions it’d be completely Ishbia’s fault for hiring yet another guy whose main draw was his MSU connection rather than anything that matters.
That’s what I assumed too
Ishbia also claims the KD and Beal trades were a result of him being hands-off, and that he’s now hands-on because he learned from that.
Makes me wish James Jones (their GM when he took over) was the kind of guy to spill dirt.
To be fair to Brian Gregory, he was a college head coach for 20 years and was impressive as a recruiter. We’ve been very good at finding cheap players and getting the most out of them, which I’ll give him credit for. Maybe it was luck.
The big trades have been catastrophic for us though, and they seem contradictory to Gregory’s mentality of finding guys who have good character and hustle. KD, Miles, Nurkic, and Beal aren’t that at all. So ya it makes me wonder if Ishbia pressured him on the Miles trade. I thought after we traded KD we’d be done with the stupid trades, but the Miles trade was clearly something Ishbia wanted to do. We were trying to get Miles 3 seasons ago as well, before Brian was here.
Sounds right on except you somehow left Colin Gilespie out of your list. He was very much a key player, super smart ball mover, and an elite shooter.
I don’t watch many Suns games but isn’t Gillespie a pg who just had a bit of a breakout last year? Idk if he’s necessarily a starter but wouldn’t now be the time to find out?
There has been growing frustration outside the locker room too
Oh wow the thing fans have been saying for years now? Oh huh
They need a Jaden Hardy/Kevon Looney type player
Protege of LeBron the GOAT James aka top sales Bronny. I’m serious
I said it before, but maybe they can trade with Portland and get one of their 4 point guards. Dame and Ja are off the table, but maybe they can trade for Jrue Holiday. He’s still starting caliber and he would pair well next to booker. Jalen Green seems like more of a sixth man, anyway.
Didn’t they literally trade for Ja to up his value and retrade him?
I think there was a low risk high reward aspect to it not necessarily just to flip.
They had that with Chris Paul
Still crazy that they broke that team up
Fun fact: the Suns had KD and CP3 for 8 regular season games in the 22-23 regular season and a first round series against the clippers. 8-0 in the regular season, and they won that first round series in seven, before CP3 got hurt. Of course, they then decided they’d rather have Bradley Beal’s albatross contract so they traded CP3 for him. Who sees 8-0 and decides nah, we’d rather have Beal and no point guard??
I’ve been saying, we just need to blow it up and rebuild. I wouldn’t even be mad if we shipped Booker to a contender for some draft capital. He’s been patient enough. Mediocre is the worst thing to be in the league. Not good enough to contend, not bad enough to get anything out of the draft.
The problem with blowing it up is we don’t own our own picks anyway, no reason to be terrible. The new lottery is a lot less punishing to mediocre teams as well, partially by design. It could have made sense but I don’t think it does anymore
The idea would be to try and get some of your own picks back like the nets did. Issue is idk how much PHX has to recoup that sort of capital. Honestly it’s one of the more dire long term situations in the league imo. Thank goodness you guys have been pretty solid at adding talent anyway and have a good HC.
No one wants Booker at his salary, or at least not by giving up enough to get him. Both salary matching wise and asset wise
clippers, no picks no incentive to tank, have some young assets like garland and maybe wegler to give back
Would take him over Fox and that gives the suns a pg.
Thats not true at all, Teams would definitely take Booker with his current deal. Being flexible enough to get him is the real sticking point for most.
Teams would be open up trading away shitty contracts for a Booker and his shitty contract. Teams will continue to do this until all the super max contracts that were signed during the last cba are over
You act like teams won’t continue to sign players to super max contracts? Dumb decisions will also continue.
As a hawks fan I’d be interested. Lots of expiring money to send back.
Yeah I ain’t buying that buddy
I like the Bam trade for both teams apart from it affecting maluach development
I am wondering if he’ll be traded for by my team. We were already planning to ship Paul George’s contract next season anyway. I wonder how the financials would work out.
I would honestly not be upset with a pairing of Booker and Tatum. Tatum is a hell of a playmaker and could help him get good looks. Book would also free up Tatum to run off ball actions since he’s a premier ball handler.
He only has 1 more year after this, it’s not that bad. He’s a little overpaid but not by much. His advanced offensive stats (O-LEBRON) last year were slightly ahead of other really good shot creators like KD, Ant, and Reaves. His defense is at least average when he’s locked in. He could really push a team over the top that needs more offensive creation in the half court (especially in the playoffs) like the Rockets, Pistons, or Spurs. Maybe even the Hawks. I don’t like the Suns so I would prefer they get nothing in return while he’s still in his prime though.
Booker is extended through 2029-2030. They just gave him an extension.
That’s the right move but Ishbia just bought the team and wants to be relevant. Book for a young potential star and some picks would be great
Yeah - I feel Ishbia wants to be relevant just enough to sell tickets at the price he’s charging.
It’s actually a decent thing to be now. Being the bottom 4th-10th team gives you best odds while 1-3 and 11-14 give the same chance. Even 15 and 16 teams get to roll now too
Except we don’t have our own pick for like 7 years. We can be mediocre all we want, Houston will be the one to benefit.
I think this guy would know lol
I’m gonna be honest, I think the 321 lottery system is bound to fail. It’s far too random and punishes actually bad teams. You’re gonna have teams that stay in the gutter for far too long because they are a small market that can’t get free agents and have a stretch of mediocre picks instead of ever finding a blue chip prospect. Instead of teams tanking for a season or two you’re gonna have bottom feeders that completely kill fan interest in those markets with no hope
I wonder if anyone would even touch the Booker contract. It’s enormous, but he is still talented
As a Bulls fan I would definitely be interested
Why? Hes out of your timeline
Suns have no reason to be terrible they don’t have their picks
So blowing it up and then being bad but getting bad picks is even worse
May I interest you in an Immanuel Quickley, Jakob Poeltl and a FRP?
Problem with shipping booker to a contender is that if booker is a key player you’re not a contender.
Jrue Holiday would do wonders for the Suns. Not compete for a chip but he’d bring PG leadership, organization, and defense
As a blazer fan no thank yo.
If suns want scoot gladly take Dillon brooks.
Tell that to Ishbia! He did his dumb shit with KD…it seemed like he may have learned his lesson. And then doubled down by giving Booker a STUPID extension and trading what little assets they had for Bridges. They basically guaranteed nothing better than mediocrity for the next 5 years with those moves.
Also, one of the problems with blowing it up, that Booker contract is already terrible. Nobody is going to give up assets for him. I don’t think they could trade him if they wanted to because they literally don’t have the picks needed to offload his money.
Remember when Chris Paul took them to an NBA Finals and they salary dumped him for
checks notes
Bradley Beal on a max with a NTC? Four years later and they still haven’t replaced him.
How annoying must Chris Paul be
just ask the clippers lol
Yeah I’d be mad too if I was the Clippers and someone tried to hold me accountable lol.
You notice how many of those guys from that team are gone now?
Literally the whole fucking team and front office lol
Yep but instead Ishbia is gonna talk about culture instead
Hes such a dumbass. At least hes trying. But hes a dumbass
Fanbase feels the same way. Start Gillespie and have Jalen Green come off the bench. Or trade Green for a PG
If I was them , scoot had a year or two under dame I would take that gamble.
He’s probably cheap, too
I’m not sure he’s a true PG
If only they had someone like Chris Paul. I’m sure they would have made the finals
CP3 would only make the finals with a dominating C.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/16y7jdz/deandre_ayton_i_bring_dominance_my_name_is/
Like Ayton?
DominAyton!
S/o to the spurs and blazers for collecting all the guards
Hey same. - kings fans
SunKings reunite
Say what one will about Booker’s career thus far but the defining factor is Phoenix’s inability to pair him with a true PG for more than the brief run with CP (which lead to a Finals appearance and Booker’s best season). He’s always been playing out of ideal position and they’ve seemed content to double and triple down on it.
Booker had 3 points the other night
What’s the suckiest team, other than the Suns, that could take him? Please take him just out of spite at this point.
Hornets would love him, he might love it there, no expectations, a decent city, Suns could get draft capital
The Suns love making losing trades with the Hornets
Those picks would be triddash
Damn you feel this way about D.Book
It’s been so long. It’s frustrating to see younger stars in other teams (e.g. Luka, SGA, Ant, others) surpass him. I had my hopes up so I’m greatly disappointed with how it turned out. Been following the Suns since ‘10, and Book when he was drafted.
Someone mentioned the Heat for Adebayo and filler
Who needs a true pg when you have culture
They should trade for scoot