The second he signed that extension.

We did, but not even making it to November is hilarious.

We knew it was a When and not an If, but I did not think it would be two games in

I think they expected his knees to last more than 50 minutes played before he needed weeks of rest but yeah he will never be healthy. This is a chronic injury and at best he will play while hurt.

I got downvotes saying he’s never finishing a playoff series again. It’s inevitable

I thought it will come in december. Not 4 games in.

Except Toronto for some reason.

I’m surprised it took this long

What can go wrong will go wrong.

We did, which makes it even funnier.

The surprise was always “when”, never “if”.

But not so soon. Christmas yeah, it ain’t even Halloween yet.

It was expected and he’s still worth the risk. Does anyone really care if he misses some games early on?

Everyone knew

Definitely. He only played 60 games for Toronto in his only season for them. Toronto is the one team who could stomach this.

According to Stephen A, he was expecting it in December not before Halloween.

Ha ha, man you don’t like makes a good point meme

I thought he had a good 10 games in him first

Raptors knew better than anyone lol

Except Raptors fans tbh.

Planting trees

board man gets paid

Nobody plans for their knee to swell up from an old injury . For all we know he worked it too much vs not enough .

One of the picks was just to get off an injured Ingram

They also signed him to a big extension. Smh

Worse, we extended the aging 35 year old two years before he even played two weeks.

Kings and their media have been willing this trade more than anyone else. It’s just not gonna happen my guy.

Crack does feel nice tbh, I’d do it. I’m also terribly not a good decision maker under duress

If we wanted Sabonis we would have Sabonis. That price is gonna have to come way down for Bobby to bite.

Uh I don’t think the Clips got an easy way out

lmaooooo not the team who had nothing to do with it and in fact told adam silver his camp was requesting illegal stuff 7 years ago. Balmer showing up to all of the raptors games in 2018-2019 to illegally recruit him. but nooooo it’s not the corrupts fault it’s the innocent 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Yeah clips got the easy way out. Insightful comment

No star wants to come to Toronto lol give us a break.

??? Devoid of any reality, this comment

You realize there were multiple other teams willling to sign Kawhi too right?

It’s not like he was going to play in China because no one wanted him.

Raptors deserve compensation for the tampering Clippers did during the 2018-19 season, tf are you talking about? Raptors got screwed by the Clippers right when they won a ring

Not scammed. Raptors bought damaged goods and now they’re…damaged? Not surprising.

Kawhi’s played more games than Ingram

Most rationale raptors fan view him as a secret weapon for the playoffs and don’t think we need him to make playoffs .

Not sure how him missing games like 4-10 suddenly means the Raptors are getting scammed. Everyone and their dog knew he would miss time this year it just so happens to have been early. Also Ingram is out too so its not like we are missing out on anything

Pretty dumb thing to brag about considering he left us to go get that money and he might not have if they didn’t pay him under the table

I’m Canadian so I get their team sub shown to me more often than I’d like and the gloating in there was crazy lol, I mean fair enough to them but this is still funny lol

Can you link a single example of a raptors fan gloating about this?

No Raps fan is surprised. I came in expecting him to play like 55 games. We’ll see

Wrong. Raptor fans wouldve take him even if he was suspended for half the games so why would this be any different

How did Ingram fleece us?

Don’t forget the spurs hate him too, 😂. Man just fucks up every franchise he goes to.

They gave him an 115mil extension, lol…

Lol what? We gave up two completely unprotected firsts for him.

I mean y’all signed him on a 115 million extension that will take up a good amount of your cap space for the next 2 years lol

If he’s already dealing with knee swelling three games into the season, that’s not a good sign

Yall gave picks and a ton of money

Yeah only 6 out of the last 9 seasons has he been injured in the playoffs but he should be fine this year

Not only did Toronto give up a pretty solid package for him, but they just extended him, which is the even bigger problem. This dude is a 35 year old con artist with an injury history a mile long, I doubt he has much intention at all to play for the next 3 years.

He gave it all he had last year because he wanted that final extension.

Dude, the Raps gave up two frp picks, and they’re far enough away that they will almost certainly be missed when team will be looking to shore up the roster.

That’s a really bad price to pay for a guy who can’t be counted on to be healthy, who will also be eating significant cap space.

we literally gave up two unprotected most likely lottery picks

WDYM DIDNT GIVE UP A TON??

I heard clippers fans say this every year

Usually when a guy takes up that much cap space, you need him to MAKE the playoffs as well.

Bless your heart

Hes not making it through the playoffs

Yeah, fuck being on the floor to actually figure out what works with your group

As long, no not as long, his definition of as long is never playing

It’ll be worth it if that happens but he’s missed playoff games like half the times he’s had a relatively healthy season for a while now

Can you guys get a top 3 seed without him?

Inspiring, really.

Aspiring tree planter

first person to actually make use of unlimited PTO

Kawhiet Quitter

Paid man gets bored

Mr. Bountiful Contuisons

Kawhiyser Soze

Him, Daniel Jones, Kenny Golloday, and Nate Solder. Ignore my username

May I introduce you to Giancarlo Stanton?

idk man theres some tough competition for this title. Joel Emiid, Porzingis, hell id even throw conor mcgregor in this.

Usually when he’s up for an extension

He has played 11 second round playoff games in the 2020s

The Raptors only managed to finish 5th last year after beating tanking teams a bunch. They swapped 1 rotation guy from that roster for Kawhi, and if Kawhi sits for a long time, then why do you think the Raptors will be able to get another top 5 seed?

He has to be healthy for that to happen

Is that including his unofficial salary? He probably made a billion.

real humans

There’s people who say AD isn’t injury prone either lol

top… men

Clippers fans. The ones who clowned on AD even though Kawhi played fewer games than him during both their stints in LA.

It was honestly pretty incredible how available BI was for us last year.

I’m not going to say I’m unconcerned about Kawhi’s health but I’ve got a lot of faith in our medical team to have Kawhi ready for the playoffs and able to contribute over the whole season.

I’m worried but not panicking.

Or maybe Kawhi fucked us, who knows?

But atleast Kawhi has it in him to be a winning player.

I think BI is too interested in keeping up his laid back aura to ever be a real winner at this level.

It’s ok. Now he’s balanced out.

I’ve also felt like I’m taking crazy pills through this whole saga. Like the dude wanted nothing to do with us after 2019 now all of the sudden he only wants to be in Toronto. Just so weird. Love watching him when he’s healthy but everything that has transpired has made it so weird.

users noun_adjective_number, noun_adjective_number, and noun_adjective_number

This is his other knee.

Raptors fans literally said that

Idk.. you have people saying it’s just the Raptors doing load management like in 2019 he’s not actually hurt..

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/QOmqHgLbuS

I wouldn’t say he overpaid tbh. No team would’ve wanted BI’s contract, and Gradey was on the verge of being waived/expiring sadly. We offloaded those and traded 2 picks in the years we’re supposed to be pretty good (on paper).

Yep. Too many blatant red flags to go back to him for a little nostalgia. Terrible decision

There’s about 20 other teams who would’ve done the same deal in a heartbeat. Plus BI is even more cooked than Kawhi with his Achilles. At least we’ve got a shot at greatness with Leonard.

and i’d still choose to hold onto BI, dick, and the picks. BI will get healthy. Funny part is there is a decent chance we’re going to be look back in 3 years and BI might end up w more games played even sitting out this season. He’s younger and his knee aren’t hold on by a thread. The picks are the main issue to me. Kawhi could be put on ice until the playoffs and still end up hurt.

I mean, it was different with us the first time lmao

Whatever happens this time is whatever. I’m only 37 and never dreamt I would see a Raps championship in my life. I’m fulfilled.

The Raptors didn’t even try to fix him in 2019. They just load managed him for a whole freaking season and saved his health for the playoffs.

I mean, the raptors WERE the team where it was different. So if anyone would get duped it would be the dudes that made it work.

They managed to make that upgrade last time kawhi was here. We shall see what happens

Kind of crazy how Poeltl hasn’t improved in like 5+ years. Got to Spurs and became fringe starter and then just repeated that same performance every year afterwards

No confidence in Poetl for the next four years?

In other words, he played the entire series in 2025 and was healthy enough last year, but you don’t tend to win games when the FO loses PG, Harden, Zubac and Norm for worse players in a 365-day span.

The East is stacked

Is what?

AD and Trae are unbelievably cooked, the Heat suck, the Pacers are injured, the Magic are injured, the Knicks are struggling, Cleveland looks mid. Who are we supposed to be scared of?

This is the same team that only won 46 games in an easier East last year with Ingram playing a full healthy season like an All-Star.

We won 46 games last season despite Ingram, and despite Jak’s injury. Coming off the 1st year of a rebuild, 46 wins is herculean.

Every team got fake wins, what’s your point. Cleveland had 6 more than us and we almost beat them down 3 healthy starters.

By playing solid defense.

BIs touches were in isolation. The team will use ball movement. Itll be fine.

Looks like they carry over now

He didn’t forget. It was a contract year and he always plays more in contract years

I chortled

😂😂😂. I appreciate that

I don’t think anyone thinks he’s lying at this point considering his injury history. I just think it’s hilarious that he only made it 2 games lmao

Yes. Plenty of people think players fake injuries

Well, he did lie about it with the Spurs. That was kind of the whole thing. Team doctors accurately diagnosed this and he spent every ounce of energy he had fighting that diagnosis and discrediting the Spurs to preserve his career. Not irrational but basically an attempt to defraud another team. He couldn’t hide it forever though.

Maybe because I just saw “You Can See Everything” but Kawhi is the Elizabeth Holmes of the NBA.

Didn’t he want to lie back that he didn’t have this condition when he was back in the spurs?

I’d have to agree. We know he’s really hurt. We also know teams are really stupid to pay him a lot of money for 40 games a year.

Hope springs eternal?

I don’t get it either. Kawhi, like Embiid or AD, are the epitome of “can’t stay healthy” and it’s not as if we have some tiny sample to base that off of.

It was far more likely that he’d miss time this season than to be available on any given night. And sure, the upside when he can play is understandable but how FOs are able to convince themselves “I’m sure this season, he’ll be fine!” is beyond rational comprehension. Kawhi isn’t washed in the conventional sense. He’s just exceptionally injury prone and therefore, can’t be reliably counted upon.

This one is fascinating to me:

“Sidney Crosby famously played through a broken bone in his left foot during the final weeks of the 2006–07 NHL regular season and the 2007 Stanley Cup playoffs”

Taking a 65mph puck off the toe hurts like a bitch, I can’t imagine the painkillers he was on

Shit man working my regular job I always have aches/pains whatever. Can’t imagine being a professional athlete (especially in football or hockey) is any better

Especially with the pace and demands of todays game. Yes sports science and treatment is better but you see it in European football and other major sports too.

Mfer comes at us with reason and nuance. I want anger and conjecture!

😂😂😂. I forgot that, according to the Aspiration rules of physical examination, I did already examine him. Just waiting for my million dollar check to clear, and then I will update you.

It very much depends on the reason for the swelling, which I don’t know. If he has early onset osteoarthritis, for example, he may always have swelling in that knee and it may just be the degree of swelling that fluctuates.

Sorry I don’t have a direct answer to that question, but there are so many things that could be going on, and the amount of information that is publicly available is not nearly enough to give an informed opinion.

The knee has multiple bursae (plural of bursa), which are enclosed sacs that are somewhat like a deflated kickball at baseline. Some of them are connected to different areas of the knee joint. There is a normal amount of bursal fluid which exists at baseline, and helps with liberation of the joint. Conditions that lead to inflammation and swelling can cause an excess of fluid which bulges outward (aka bursitis), stretching the “kickball,” and can be painful and cause stiffness. If you google “knee bursae anatomy” you can readily get a visual of this. Or if you google knee bursitis you can also get a visual of how the swelling can look in actual knees.

Idk. I’m just a regular ole doctor, who happens to be a big basketball fan. I don’t have access to any information at all, to which you do not also have access. Kawhi has been reported to have knee issues for a while now, although I believe it was his other knee that had the ACL and meniscal tears. Opposite knee can be affected by compensatory behaviors, or he could just have other small injuries that have accumulated over time.

As far as why teams continue to pay him, injuries are not always predictable. Look at Kawhi’s last season: he was surprisingly durable and was according to some statistics one of the top 5 (EPM for example) players in the NBA, after having some missed years where he played very little. Every superstar has missed some time with injuries, but when they play, they can literally help carry teams to playoff wins. All of sports team building is a gamble from a health perspective. We just watched JDub go down with a horrible injury, and he’s much younger.

I bet the GM is hoping that they can load manage Kawhi through the regular season, get a little lucky in terms of avoiding major injuries, and then unleash him in the playoffs and win a title. For as much as I think Kawhi has done unethical and maybe even illegal things, and I dislike him as a role model for my kids, he’s still one of the best basketball players in the world, when he actually plays. No different than Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Ant, Steph, and all the other incredible players that have missed time in recent years.

It’s not possible to build a team of “un-injurable” players. Some players are higher injury risk than others, but they are all at risk. The Raptors know that they can likely get to the playoffs even if Kawhi does not play at all during the regular season, and they are probably just hoping to have him play enough and be conditioned enough and hopefully healthy enough to make an impact once they get there.

Did I cry? No, I said I’m happy to take them. Already got a few. Please do contribute.

Are we seriously asking why teams would pay someone who just went for 28/6/4 on 50/39/89 splits lol. Kawhi is the luxury car you keep in the garage until you really need it, especially if you’re the Raptors who are already pretty deep. Just need to keep him in bubble wrap till the playoffs

⁵⁄₁₆ seasons in his career he’s played 65+

He always plays more games and does well in contract years. And then ends up playing half the contract until its contract year again

Yes, he just tricks you for one season in the extension year.

That’s the contract year special.

I feel the same way about Aaron Gordon and his legs.

You save his knees for the playoffs, they’re just going to flare up and get injured during the playoffs.

But if this were currently the playoffs, he wouldn’t’ve even made it to a game in the second round

Toronto is not nearly good enough to be assured of the playoffs without Kawhi.

Regardless, this happened after 2 games. I think Kawhi just played through a ton of pain last season to lock in a final contract, but his knees are realistically shot.

Bold of you to assume they’d even sniff the play in without Kawhi

Regardless of talent, a team needs to know how to play together.

It’s why Team USA still struggles to win the Olympics even with the massive talent gap between them and the teams they are playing.

Most of the teams they play are used to playing together while they are just talent thrown together

He’s absolutely not that player anymore and hasn’t been for years. He got clamped up by Draymond and unceremoniously booted from the play-in last year. That doesn’t happen to guys who can “deliver a championship.”

Raptors weren’t ’one Kawhi’ away from getting a chip tho. I guess they still wanted to raise their ceiling anyway. Can’t hate a team for just wanting to win more games I guess

We did he delivered a championship ? At Toronto in 19 when the team was pretty stacked, being able to keep him in the fridge for 20+ games in the regular season ? Of course his PO were great but he wasn’t alone though. At Spurs ? That was a great team, a great dynasty, he was a great developing player and didn’t hesitate to fleece the Spurs to go to the Clippers and achieve nothing there. Oh I forgot, he succeeded in choking games and series multiple times.Stop cuddling KL on the idea he MIGHT when he has a degenerative condition to his knees.

There’s not been a reward for years. People go on about how good he was last year but they didn’t even win Game 1 of the Play-in.

He has ZERO reason to risk anything which is the issue. He’ll never play injured like he did that title year again because he correctly guessed that pushing it like he did would secure him for the rest of his career. And he’ll always be injured, which is what the spurs told him.

It worked seven years ago when he was 28, surely it will work at 35 after a decade of a degenerative condition!

This worked out really well for the Clippers

I can fix him!

I was hoping he would so I could boo him all night long.

honestly the most incredible thing about Kawhi to me is how he seems to have this unique ability to miss vast stretches of time and come back and play great like nothing happened.

I mean playing 65 games of All NBA level play is pretty convincing.

He always says stuff like that and then he will be out for weeks lol.

I do think his hand is ok though. It worried me bc I think that is the hand he injured last season, so hopefully he didn’t agitate it

Get ready to defend every ache and bruise

Amazing timing, eh?

Clippers game vs raptors would be the second night of a back to back for the Raptors, so he probably would have sat that one out injury or not.

The 2 FMVPs help

Given their history recruiting star bigs and Waltons history as a Bruin it doesnt seem that outlandish to think he could have been a Laker in the 80’s if he stayed healthy.

If Walton stayed healthy he probably never ends up on the Celtics tbh

Hes already ahead of Harden, Westbrook and Embiid lol

Why would you get flamed man? Healthy Kawhi would easily have better career than the ones you listed.

Embiid completely healthy career versus Leonard completely healthy career would be tough to compare

In terms of peak 2 way playoff performances Kawhi has an argument among the all time greats not named Jordan.

I genuinely think the only person in that group he doesn’t already clear is KD

He’s already on the level of Westbrook/Embiid/Harden WITH injuries. Without we’re talking top 10 all time.

Would be better all time than giannis hot take

He’s already ahead of everyone you mentioned sans KD bro

You are including mental health too right, because the man is such a greedy ego maniac he couldn’t play for the greatest coach in NBA history and he doesn’t give a shit that his ridiculous demands basically made the clippers a bigger joke than they are. He shouldn’t be allowed to step foot near a court.

You dont think Kawhi clears Westbrook?

Agreed. I genuinely think peak Kawhi might be the best basketball player ever.

Disagree. He can’t do any of that without hurting himself. He’s either not built for it or he’s too lazy/does not care enough to put the work in over the summer to prep for the season. He only cares about getting paid and does the bare minimum. He’s my least favorite NBA “star” of all time

He could be a top 5 player of all time. He’s incredible.

He’s already cleared most of them, except KD from that list. Even with his injuries.

He already clears Embiid

He’s already cleared harden and Westbrook lol

Maybe not KD but the rest is pretty clear.

He would be grouped with LeBron and curry for sureee

Flamed? That’s not even a debate. Even Gianni’s imo

He already clears everyone you named

To quote rdcworld1 - “Kawhi Leonard… if I see your name on another top 10 list… I’ma kill somebody…”

I dunno think you can make a claim for curry or KD if he’s fully healthy.. he was very very good and his playoff numbers were consistently unreal.

idk man this is literally the nba subreddit kinda seems like the type of thing people here care about

Sir, this is a basketball subreddit. He’s giving a thought on basketball. It’s on topic and relevant. It has been said a lot of times, but you could say the same thing about 98% of the comments on this sub.

Do you know where you are right now?

yes but he has an Achilles tear and is likely sidelined for the season.

Raptors would lost BI this year anyways

I’m a bit surprised that teams are so accepting of this. I thought there would eventually be more of a “we’re paying you so you need to play” stance but it seems like the team and player are usually on the same page. Having a big name on your team regardless of how much they play must be good enough for business to not warrant pushing it.

We swapped BI(a injury prone player coming off a Achilles injury)and Gradey for Kawhi. I’m doing that trade again today lol

So you’d rather keep an injury prone BI who’s hurt and Gradey lol. Are really a raptors fan or just someone talking lom

There are 2 players scoring more than Ty Jerome and they are both in the West. Ty Jerome is outscoring everyone in the East though.

Lakers, Wolves, Rockets, Spurs, Thunder are all great teams

Nah pretty much everyone was saying how much better the East got this offseason, people are just changing their tune now

Injuries to 2 guys with a TON of injury history…