[Lauren] Everyone was afraid a World Series game would end on a pitch clock violation or an overturned strike call or whatever so of course it’s an unchallengeable check swing
Somewhere on this planet, there is a dual Giants/Rays fan who is having a very unfortunate flashback to five years ago lol
Rays squandered a 4 run lead and didn’t score after the first. That should be the headline for TB.
Such is the truth with moments like these…
…losing games by individual calls can suck (and it does suck!), but you simply just can’t put yourself in a situation to let these moments influence things the way they do…
I’ve never really agreed with that sentiment sometimes though. Two great teams and as evenly matched as they can be. Both the 1 seed in their league. Both games by a run with the tying run in scoring position in the 9th. Sure, if we’re talking the Dodgers letting the Rockies hang around for a while and losing like this then I agree with you. But there’s really not a “dont put yourself in a situation where its a 1 run game with a runner on third in the 9th vs the 100+ win team” thing for me.
All you do is put yourself in a position to succeed and hope you make the plays in crunch time instead of the other team. I think when you phrase it like you did it diminishes the talent of the Brewers (in this case) by saying its the Rays fault they were in a close game with them.
You know what I mean? I just think that’s one of those sayings that sounds nice cause you hear it all the time but doesn’t really stack up under scrutiny is all.
Also the converse is that the winning team shouldn’t let a game get so close that they need a bad call to win. It’s dumb logic.
I get your meaning but in situations like this it’s not taking anything away from the Brewers, it’s just that Tampa had leverage and let it slip through their fingers with poor defense and absent hitting. Sure, the offense you can definitely chalk up to elite pitching, but letting a ball roll between your legs at 1st or not keeping your grip on a fly ball out is 100% on the Rays. Those mistakes cost them more of the game than one check swing call.
Players know that nobody ever loses a game in the ninth… You have 8 innings before that not to suck.
There’s always hope. And anyone who knows ball knows it’s not over until it’s over.
But like it was done.
No crying allowed.
Getting thrown out at home by a mile. was much more egregious than this close call.
Yup - the bad send at 3rd and the multiple bobbles behind the plate trying to throw out the stealing runner stood out most to me.
The Arranada error is probably worse than the catcher. The send was horrible, I would be so mad if my 3rd base coach made that send.
Well was it a bad send? What are his odds if he stays at 3rd w 2 outs? Eg 28 pct chance of scoring
The ball was on its way to the infield as the runner got to third, very bad send
And was a brutal throw too… two hopper that slowed the ball down a crazy amount and was still out as he was sliding
I mean he was out by probably 12 feet or more so no one was gonna make it. But isn’t it relevant what the scoring odds are from third base w 2 outs. Isn’t that number relevant?
The the catcher had time to do his taxes before he got to the plate
His odds were 0% of scoring on that send. They would need to recreate the World Series play 6 years ago today where smith dropped the ball, he was out before he slid and it was a terrible throw home
I mean they are playing the best team in baseball. They were trying to score more
They played bad defense and gave the Brewers runs
For sure. Offense dying after the 1st and the defense giving the Brewer extra outs is killer.
The one run game ending on an arbitrary call by an ump is the headline. When the rays and brewers scored their runs isn’t the headline.
Correct! Bad call or not, the Rays blew it.
TB had three hits (plus the error) in the first inning and four the rest of the game.
Exactly. You have to win those games
I mean, it was a swing so I don’t see an issue in this scenario.
Yep, all that matters is if the umpire saw an attempt to strike the ball. By the rule as written, it was a swing, since the umpire decided he saw an attempt.
Yup. Pretty simple.
The issue is that the rule doesn’t exist. There are a lot of people who learned tonight that check swings aren’t challengeable. It’s like the only thing left that can be automated reasonably soon, so it’s bad luck from MLB standpoint for a WS game to draw attention to it. Whether the call was correct is really not relevant to the point Lauren was making.
Ok - what about chourios slide at home. I think more likely than not he was safe but the ump made a judgement call in the moment and because there wasn’t overwhelming evidence against it, it was upheld. If that call goes the other way it’s a 2 run game. This pearl clutching over something that 90% of baseball fans would call a swing is ridiculous
agree Chourio was likely safe. They could’ve done a way better job with showing those replays
I mean, arguably there is no actual definition for what a checked swing even is. You can’t really automate something that is purely subjective.
well part of the automation process will presumably be just defining it in the rulebook, which is updated every year anyway
Not according to ACS challenges that have been implemented in MILB.
Check this out https://youtu.be/EHRLP91WFws?is=Ypo8foQenVIoh7Us
Oh this is exactly what I’ve been looking for all night. Pretty neat technology.
I’ve been thinking about it like stitching replays on the goal line in football.
One would need to definitely establish rules for this new technology but I think it could work in the MLB.
MILB
Yeah. Minor league baseball. The same place that pitch challenges were tested for a year and a half before they made it to Major League Baseball.
This is Major League Baseball. They are different things.
Lauren is one of the funniest people alive and everyone should listen to her baseball podcast
I love finding my fellow lefty Batting Around fans in the wild.
Your comment reminded me that there was a zine for a brief time called Batting Around, documenting road trips to hit all 30 parks. They went dark just after their last trip, always wonder where they went.
Lauren is literally why I left twitter for Bluesky, and started listening to Batting Around
At some point I was like “hey, where did all the Lauren tweets go, I miss those
We all need more rotating sandwiches in our life
Also wonderful taste in books. As a mariners fan I’m particularly grateful for her recs to read Ian toll
Haven’t read any science fiction since I was a kid, and recently decided to get back into it by trying out a bunch of the shit she’s mentioned on the show
Friendly reminder that Wilmer Flores didn’t go
This was the first thing i thought of when this happened tonight lol
funny you should mention that it just came up in another thread about this. also he didnt come close to going!
After this game I went back and rewatched that ending. He really didn’t swing, not even close to that. I was happy at the time but looking at it right now it is such a travesty.
Sadly I agree
Here’s that video
According to the rule book he did, that’s why we need the check swing review, should be here next year. Otherwise if the batter simply offers at the ball it’s a strike which is literally every pitch now since batters have to be geared up for 90-100. This isn’t 1900 when guys threw 60 haha
Monday Rays fans were cheering the call of no swing against us. Today they’re against it being call a swing facing the Brewers.
It was a swing.
Maybe the MLB will finally let a team challenge a check swing now.
That’s what happens though you love when a call helps your team and hate it when the same call goes against your team.
Well said.
Also to your point, yesterday, the Rays got off with a uncalled strike three swing that was overshadowed by the challenged double play.
MLB are touting a check swing camera system to be active soon, with the possibility of next year.
They will soon. It’s been in the minors for a while now. I don’t think defensive teams will like it.
But even using its criteria I think this is probably ruled a swing.
That’s a bad angle, the bat head is up at this point. The side angle is more definitively a swing than the overhead which is also behind the plate.
Gah! I just noticed how far back it’s set. So you’re right, not the best.
I still think that using rulebook criteria that it’s a swing. He changed his mind way too late.
From what I’ve seen of the tests of the automated check swing system, it might not be a swing. One thing that system has shown is that the definition of a check swing is a lot less simple than previously thought, it’s not just about the location of the bat head.
I watched my Astros get called out all season on plenty of 3rd strike check swings that were less of a swing than this was. As someone who does not care at all who wins this series, I agree it was a swing.
I don’t think it was a swing. Bat head location isn’t an end-all be-all because not everyone stands in the box the same way.
That said, I don’t think it’s egregious or anything and it’s such a difficult thing for the ump to get exactly correct that you can’t really boil down the game to this one thing
It wasn’t a swing in 1965 and it won’t be a swing in 2030.
He swung
Everyone is arguing about whether or not it’s a swing, but if it was truly that close, aren’t both calls essentially correct? I know everyone hates that as an answer, but check swings have always been up to umpire discretion.
We definitely need a set guideline, but this was so close, I think people would have complained even with a challenge.
Schroedingers swing
You know, you’re right. But seeing the game in real time, it looked like a no swing. On the replay maybe it gets to the imaginary point but uhhhh. Personally as someone with no dog in this race, I hate for the game to end on this call. Also, I want a long World Series and this doesn’t go with my script
I could go without some 9th inning drama at least
I could go for winning a game in the World Series. Four ideally
Unchallengeable for now. They’ve been testing check swing challenge tech for a couple years now in the Minor Leagues.
Which uses an insanely hitter friendly threshold compared to how it generally gets called in MLB currently. I’d be shocked if it ends up making it to MLB without adjustments
I mean has MLB implemented any recent changes that favor defense over offense? The modified shift, the pitch clock, the number of pick off moves all favor more offense. I guess they added a roster spot for pitchers.
Yeah, the goal of this definitely seems to be to increase offense, but 45 degrees is more than double the current breakpoint of what gets called. I could see 30 degrees being what they settle on: more hitter friendly than the status quo, but not ridiculously so
Technically they added a roster spot for anyone, its just that teams mostly choose to use it for a pitcher.
Surely it is going to be anything beyond parallel with the home plates front edge would be a swing… right? RIGHT?? I can’t fathom it being the foul lines.
It’s well beyond that in the minors. If they were using the current minor league system it wouldn’t have been called a swing.
Parallel is a bit too restrictive for the hitter and most of the recent changes have been aimed at increasing offense so I doubt they use a metric that more restrictive than the status quo. I’d guess it settles closer to 20-30 degrees. A bit more than is currently called, but not ridiculously so
I am BEGGING them not to change it. This is my hottest baseball take, I think everyone is gonna be upset about it for like three games and then get used to it being the “new” standard. One of the most clever/non-obtrusive ways for them to increase offense I can imagine
I also kinda like the outfield positioning rules they’re testing out though, so I know I’m wayyyy in the minority
My hottest take would be if the batter hits a HR his run only counts as 1⁄2 so a HR w 2 runners aboard would be 2 1⁄2 runs.
Also, a hitter-friendly threshold would put it in line with historical application of the rule. The front of the plate thing is pretty recent–before that guys were going almost all the way around, but not being called because they stopped it before it finished. Basically, the classical interpretation was if you tried to check your swing at all, you weren’t attempting to strike the ball, and I honestly think that’s a better and truer application of the text of the rule than what we’re doing now.
MLB wants it to be hit friendly because that’s what gets viewers. They put juiced balls in specifically for this and took out spidertack because pitchers are literally just too fucking good.
The biggest travesty is no slomo replays after it happened
yeah we needed an immediate slo mo replay on that, and it was like 2 minutes of celebration before they showed a regular speed replay from the outfield camera and i was like a drowning man crawling through the desert. cmon production booth you have to know what the people want
He swung. Stop fucking whining
Kind of a crazy reaction to a post that didn’t say it wasn’t a swing and also wasn’t even posted by a Rays fan
I don’t think that was a swing
the irony of whining about people whining lol
Ain’t a swing, brother. Mariner.
It’s a strike that’s up to the umpire because the rulebook doesn’t define a swing.
Bro hate the rays so much
I am quite partial and jealous even of the rays. But yandy diaz swung.
Is this just a random person’s tweet/thread?
Don’t you dare disrespect Lauren like that
She’s a host of the Batting Around podcast. Pretty good baseball pod IMO
It’s arguably the best baseball pod that’s mostly about food and warhammer 40k
Wait this sounds fantastic I gotta start listening to this
Based off the different platform numbers it has, it seems like it falls into the tier that hundreds, if not thousands of other sports related fan podcasts fall into.
It’s definitely more niche, but it’s up there with Effectively Wild and the Bar-b-cast for me.
So, yes.
So a random person
Lauren will not be disrespected
She’s with the Batting Around podcast.
No one really cares man
It really is just a random girl
named Lauren
She rotates sandwiches. That’s important work
very regular
How could you even challenge something that doesn’t have an official definition in the rules. It’s up to the umpires’ discretion if they think it’s a swing or not.
The way they’re doing it in the minors, I guess. At least we’d finally have a definition and people wouldn’t be screaming about breaking wrists every time I watch baseball with other people.
The definition in the minors is having the bat break across the base line. Using that definition, the umpire clearly made the right decision in this game.
AI flips a coin and makes the call
/s
Presumably the rule would be clearified
I’m not “afraid” of a game ending on a challenge that is properly and consistently reviewed in a system that’s tested and trusted. I only hope it doesn’t happen because the review process can reduce the thrill of the moment for the winning team.
There was a check swing early in the game that went the other way. It happens
My god, do people like sports or lawyering? If you don’t want to leave the game up to the officials, don’t give them the opportunity. I have no issue with a game ending on a judgment call, but I would have an issue with the game ending after a 4 minute review where you need a slow motion camera to accurately decide if a player broke an imaginary plane by a millimeter or not. That sucks and that’s not sport.
Agreed. It’s terrible what they’ve done to international soccer. Goals are overturned 6 minutes after scored by players being milliliters offside when the human eye didn’t detect them offside in real time. Sometimes the momentum is more important than the correct call when it’s so close that you need a computer to tell you.
Would you say this about >1 inch wrongly called balls/strikes pre abs challenges?
Yes
ah, the good old days of momentum and none of this computer replay BS deciding baseball
He’d probably say anything if he’s already willing to misrepresent what’s happening in soccer like that.
I’d prefer a set guideline than something that varies so much based on the umpire seeing it.
I like accuracy. I hate human error, that’s why I don’t want humans driving they suck. Just like the ump that blew the no hitter call and ruined a part of baseball history. Simply get the call right for the purity of the game. Too much on the line for mistakes. The call was technically correct today, but with check swing review we get another at bat, and a chance at extra innings, free baseball and more competition.
Don’t attempt to check last At-bat full count in the World Series. They made a bunch of other silly errors.
That was a winnable game. They fucked up. THEN they leave it to the refs. 🙄
4 minute? It takes like 5 seconds same as ball strike challenge.
Mike Scioscia put it best after the Angels got screwed on that Pierzynski strikeout/non-strikeout. You have to play good enough to absorb those mistakes.
The difference here is the umpire got it right.
Ending on a pitch clock violation just feels cheap. I have no problem with ending on a successful ABS challenge, since that generally means the final call is correct. Checked swing calls should be challengeable, but that would mean there has to be an exact rule determining what constitutes a checked swing, which the sport seems irrationally resistant to.
But… it would have held up.
C’mon now, really?
They didn’t call the swing last night. The brewers won 2 1⁄2 times last night and that’s your beef?
Exactly. Can’t have it both ways.
it was a swing so its cool
Does the person who tweeted this nonsense even know ball?
But he went….strike 3!
It was a swing. I hate that this will push for more AI challenges we have to deal with. Sorry Yandy, but ya swung
with 2 strikes just putting the bat into the strike zone could turn a backwards K into a foul. I’ll argue that any swing that goes into the zone should be called strike.
Who the hell is Lauren
Then don’t check swing with 2 strikes and 2 outs then.