Side view of Yandy Diaz Check swing
Honestly looks like a swing here. MLB, get your rules figured out please
Hopefully soon. Based on the rules they are testing down in the minors this wouldn’t be a swing and it would be reviewable
I can’t imagine the check swing rules they’ve been piloting would actually be the final version. The one they had in the minors would completely upend everyone’s understanding of what a checked swing is.
I know what you’re talking about even though you’re getting downvoted. The one example of the minor league review system I saw earlier in the season on here was outrageously stupid. The bat went past first base and they said it wasn’t a swing. I hope they calibrate it to whenever the bat angle goes past 90 degrees of the batter. That’s how most people call it.
I thought they based it on college. Which says if barrel passes front hip it’s a swing. Diaz has super fast hands so it’s kind of hard to see but seems like his barrel clearly passed his hip
-4 points? what you said is 100% true
Idk man
Is there a check swing version of the balk rules copypasta yet
You can’t just be up there and just checkin’ a swing like that.
1a. A checked swing is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A checked swing is when you check the
1c. Let me start over
1c-a. The batter is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, plate, that goes past the plate when, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the bat has crossed the plate, it can’t be over here and say to the ball, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna hit you out! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like it didn’t even do that.
1c-b(1). Like, if you’re about to swing and then don’t swing, you have to still swing. You cannot not swing. Does that make any sense?
1c-b(2). You gotta be, swinging motion of the bat, and then, until you just stop it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can stop the bat there, like this, but then there’s the check you gotta think about.
1c-b(2)-b. Chuck Swing hasn’t been in any movies in forever. Actually, I don’t think that’s an actor, or even a person.
1c-b(2)-b(i). Oh wait, that’s my neighbor! I probably shouldn’t dox him.
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A checked swing is when the batter starts a swing that, as determined by, when you do a swing involving a stop by the plane of
The crazy thing is that this copy pasta is more clear than the current MLB rules because at least this one talks about “crossing the plate”
I mean, the current rule is extremely clear, it’s just not very good
It’s entirely a judgement call by the umpire; did the batter make an attempt to strike the ball?
You cant be up there tellin the pitcher I’m gonna hit that ball right off yer butt
Can I tell the pitcher that he has a big butt?
Check Swing Rules
You can’t just be up there and just checkin’ your swing like that.
1a. A check swing is when you
1b. Okay well listen. A check swing is when you check the
1c-a. The batter is not allowed to do a motion to the, uh, ball, that makes the umpire think that you’re, you know, just trying to hit the ball. You can’t do that.
1c-b. Once the batter is in the swing, he can’t be over here and say to the ball, like, “I’m gonna get ya! I’m gonna hit you! You better watch your butt!” and then just be like he didn’t even do that.
1c-b(2). You gotta be, swinging motion of the bat, and then, until you just hit it.
1c-b(2)-a. Okay, well, you can have the bat up here, like this, but then there’s the check swing you gotta think about.
1c-b(3). Okay seriously though. A check swing is when the batter makes a movement that, as determined by, when you do a move involving the baseball and field of
Hell yeah.
Don’t do a check swing please
A check is when, first of all, you gotta do it
Wait but that other guy just said don’t do it
Check swing rule is actually worse. It’s basically looking at the 1B/3B umps and the umps going “trust me bro.”
“Look, it’s the 9th inning and I want to go to bed. He went.”
ah like that miami fsu game where it totally wasn’t simultaneous possession for a td.
This is exactly the checked swing rule lol
I know, people think I’m joking 😂
Seeing all these fans argue whether Yandy’s bat crossed the plate or not is hilarious IYKYK.
Don’t point at me ahh fuck fuck fuck
“Yes he did.”
oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck
“He went….?”
This “trust me bro” mindset is still how balls and strikes are called (minus the tiny % that are challenged). Full-time ABS will be great, automating review of check swings will be too. Any and all removal of human officiating subjectivity from sport in calls that can be objectively determined is great.
especially with how big gambling has become the temptation just needs to be removed
Of course! A check swing is when you…
Mr. Jon Bois, we are in need of a skill that only you have the capacity to fulfill. Please grace us with your presence.
You know, you have a snowball or whatever, right? And there’s a snowball that kinda starts rolling down a hill and if you don’t- if you don’t ever stop it, then the snowball just gets bigger and bigger and bigger and it picks up traction and just gets more snow and it just continues to go down this thing and then the bigger the snowball gets the harder it is to stop it.
I thought a check swing was just when the bat crosses the end of the plate, that’s it. Am I wrong about that?
That is how a large number choose to call it, but it is not in the MLB rulebook
There is no rule, that’s the problem. It’s simply a judgment call
I thought it was crossing the front hip plane, but apparently that is the international rule.
yes, you are wrong.
this is a measure that some umpires may chose to use to determine what is a check swing. but nowhere in any rule book does it define a swing as when the bat is past the end of the plate. the umpires who chose to use that measure do so of their own accord, and umpires are free to ignore it completely if they wish.
The way it was explained to me by an umpire as a kid, the bat can go beyond the plate but ir’s when the wrists hinge forward or the angle of the bat goes beyond the top plane oh home plate. Like they can be parallel but the angle can exceed 90° I guess
But that was in the early 90’s
Until there is a definition of a swing in the rulebook, everyone on both sides of this argument is correct.
It’s a balk
Oh no don’t do that to me
Do not do a balk please
Don’t put that evil on us
what’s a balk?
Well see, a balk is when yoouu…..
It’s a touchdown
This is a win for the Cubs
Well, by definition no, because there is a definition and it’s up to the umpire. Ump said swing so by rule its a swing. You can dislike that but there is a rule.
I should’ve qualified it as missing a technical definition rather than the existing arbitrary one.
I’m not arguing, but neither are you, cause you just said every possible thing
It’s when the bat crosses the plate, right? That’s what I was always told and it seems pretty consistent with how the umps call it.
No it’s when the umps think he swung.
That’s generally how people eyeball it, but no, the official rule is that a swing is when you try to hit the ball, and there’s no further criteria beyond that.
If the ump thinks you tried to hit the ball, then it’s a swing
Incredibly borderline call based on what usually is called a swing. I think either way you make the call, one team is gonna be upset. My two takeaways are:
We desperately need an official definition of a swing, and the challenge system too
FOX are useless and/or cowards for not showing this angle
Thank you for the second point. They omitted the angle they used last night.
And the same damn network refused to show replays of the face mask penalty flag in the BYU overtime game just before baseball started on Fox
This is one where I don’t even want a challenge system, cos the person challenging has no idea.
At least with balls and strikes it’s a cool showcase of an actual skill. You have to really see the ball and know the strike zone. When it comes to where the head of the bat ended up, the pitcher and catcher are at impossible angles to be able to make a determination, and the hitter is obviously focusing elsewhere and going completely off feel.
Just put a light somewhere in the stadium that lights up green or red when the catcher appeals
After all the fireworks they showed the overhead in slomo. It wasnt close.
But not close to…
They did show it. Smoltz called it a “lack of a swing”.
This is a stadium camera, not part of the broadcast crew’s from what others are saying
I mean if it’s breaking your wrist, then I think it’s maybe not a swing, but it’s so subjective at that point. It’s literally just what the ump is feeling, but we’re trying to go away from that, but isn’t that what makes it baseball? It shouldn’t be. Maybe not, I don’t know.
This really clears things up
It clears up how hard it is for umpires to call this consistently correctly, even before you consider that there isn’t a real rule.
This is a camera lens approximating the view from maybe 20-30 feet away and at a 90° angle right on plane with the height of the swing, and we can barely tell at game speed. Umpires have to call it from like 70ft away, at a 45°ish angle, and looking down on it, and then we all wonder why they get it wrong as we watch a frame by frame replay lmao
Fox has been fucking AWFUL for check swing replays the entire postseason. Its like a passing thought. Can we get some fucking guys in the media truck who actually watch baseball?
Fox has heard your concerns and will give you 100 more years of John Smoltz
best I can do is some more ai images
Finally a good angle!
Does indeed look like he went
It’ll never cease to amaze me that - in a sport with so many neatly defined rules - the determination of what constitutes a swing is left up to the subjective interpretation of individual umpires.
With an average age of 53 in marquee games, gotta wonder what their average score on a Snellen chart is
I hated the idea of a robo ump and the abs challenge solved that brilliantly. I hope they can figure out a way to solve this problem too.
They’re already testing a rule change and challenge system in triple-A this year. See: https://youtu.be/EHRLP91WFws?si=f2WypEuS2oTy8kZj
They’re using a rule where a swing is defined as the bat going more than 45° past parallel with the front of home plate. I think it’s relatively generous for batters but just having an actual objective definition will be a huge deal.
It’s a half measure, where you still have a guy guessing when we have the ability to get it right 100% of the time.
I had to explain this to a friend tonight. She’s been getting into hockey and tonight finally saw a good game of baseball. Then having to explain this controversy I was so fucking annoyed having to explain our dumb fucking sport.
Have you watched football recently? Baseball having its own “what is a catch” moment
There is literally no rule as to what constitutes a swing
The rule is as clear as mud. There isn’t even a rule beyond that umps can ask for help on “half swings” and that a strike is a pitch “struck at by the batter.”
oh, ok. do tell us how the rules define what is and what isn’t a swing.
It’s probably the least clear rule in professional sports. There’s no definition at all, it just says let the ump decide whatever he feels like. It’s an entirely vibes based rule.
I don’t know if he went around or not honestly, he does it so quickly, but that image does seem to show he might have. I don’t think you can fault the umpire in this situation, it’s not your normal check swing, it’s like he swatted at the ball with a fly swatter.
Is this legit
It fits my narrative so yes
I have no narrative but also yes
Crazy world we live in that’s this is a legit but necessary question.
Ok yeah that’s a swing
Best part about a swing is there’s rule book is extremely vague on what a swing is. Only that it’s when a player strikes at the ball. It’s entirety subjective. If they implement the challenge system they’re testing in the minors without any changes we’re looking at a lot fewer check swings being called strikes.
I mean idk how it’s not “players bat crosses the front of the plate” in the rule book.
Players bat crosses the plate or swings the bat beyond parallel with the front of the plate
Crosses the front of the plate depends far too much on where in the box a batter is standing.
Or perhaps more succinctly that would incentivize standing as far back as possible even more than 105 mph fastballs already do
He definitely went.
As close as it gets, but gun to my head I’d say he went.
Hmmm I wonder why
Because there’s a gun to his head, stop being so insensitive
Cubs fans are so dumb.
The gun to his head
there was a head to his gun
Made up for last night’s no call on that obvious fkn swing.
The overhead angle makes it clear he went.
This is what to look at, thanks for the still. Its actually a lot closer than i thought. I was taught if the bat crosses the lead shoulder its a swing. Not sure of the mlb rule but i guess the calls okay. 😭
That bat head is damn near in Lake Michigan.
It only matters what one guy thinks. Not photos. Not your opinion. One guy.
Well, at most two guys: home plate ump and first base ump. And the second guys opinion doesn’t matter if the first guy thinks he went
So one guy but it could be handed to a different guy.
Exactly
Well if the catcher asks the first guy to ask the second guy his opinion supersedes the first guy normally, but that’s a gentleman’s agreement
Yea but it matters whether or not we can get super mad at that one guy!
So no one can say what they think anymore? lol
And it shouldn’t. An enforceable rule should not be left up to opinion. The “human element” should be for players only, not officials. If it is not defined enough to be challenge-able, it is a flaw in the system that needs to be dealt with. We shouldn’t even be having this conversation, it just makes the product worse.
Not that I agree with the rule, but the only defined rule in professional baseball (in AAA) would have ruled this a no swing.
Further than what the Giants got bounced for against the Dodgers
This angle looks more ambiguous than the half overhead one since you see his left leg jut out in front here which messes with the perspective.
Looks like he barely went, but barely is still enough to count as a swing. On close calls in high importance games id rather see the umps lay off a bit though but thats just my opinion.
Oh come on what a take. “Don’t apply the rules when the rules matter.”
What rule? There is no rule on what a checked swing is
Well the rules do matter but good luck explaing balk rules or check swing rules. Easy things like catches and whether the pitch was a strike or a ball, go ahead and make things black and white. To end a game like this is just dumb though.
You’re still arguing that the last out should be ruled different than the first 28. That’s nonsense my man. It may be anticlimactic but that’s the game buddy.
To end the game because someone tried to swing and missed is crazy to you?
Saaallllty how much did u lose on fandeul
You’re just still bitter about Winter Flores.
Interesting, because to me it doesn’t look like he swung.
Doesn’t seem like it by the general vague interpretation most take. It doesn’t matter if the bat goes past, he didn’t “break” his wrists.
Crossing the plate isn’t a swing.
You are right. But if we go by the rules as written this whole conversation is moot because the definition of a swing is did the umpire feel like it was a swing, which he did.
“The Major League Baseball rulebook does not contain an official definition for a checked swing, but defines a swing as “an attempt to strike at the ball”. It is the decision of the umpire as to whether an attempt was made or not.”
That’s the thing- nothing isn’t a swing.
That’s actually super funny.
It’s a call that CANNOT be wrong. Because the ump felt he swung, then by definition, it’s the right call lmao.
When you think about it, it’s the perfect rule then. You cannot screw it up.
That’s literally how baseball was for like 100 years regarding any rule
In what instance would crossing the plate not be considered a swing?
Ump sneezed and missed the play
If the ump felt like you weren’t really trying to hit it.
The only definition of a swing in the rulebook is basically just “an attempt to hit the ball with the bat, as determined by the umpire”
The bat is pointing in the Milwaukee dugout lol
If the bat is parallel to the back of the plate I give it a ball. Past that if it’s called a swing, it’s a swing.
Correct. He didn’t even need to cross the plate though because this is a swing either way. He offered at the pitch in 5 different ways.
It’s wild that you’re getting downvoted for being correct.
Swing was 22.9 mph. Never a swing unless the ump wants to make the game about his call.
The top view was from behind the plate which is not a clear enough perpsective to differentiate whether the bat head was moving up or forward. That angle was not definitive like this one is.
Because the top view is a bit behind them and not directly down I could have seen it having been related to the front of the back coming up on the pullback.
The side view has the best image of the tip of the bat going passed the wrists which I think is the best view.
No you could not lmao. And it is not a top view.
BUT NO THE TOP VIEW IS A MIRAGE CUZ MISLEADING
Is basic geometry a mirage now?
Does anyone watch minor league baseball and the ABS check swing? It literally has to cross the 1st or 3rd baseline depending on what handed batter they are. Based on that system, which will eventually make it to the MLB, tonight’s check swing was not a strike.
It’s a very hitter friendly system they’re testing. So you’re right, but I’m not sure you’d find a baseline umpire in today’s MLB who operates with that potential future rule in mind.
there’s no way the system in the bigs will look like they piloted it in the minors
it’s way too far from any of the generally accepted definitions of a swing, like “even with the front of the plate”, “wrists broke”, “hips cleared”, etc
It’s because that’s why
That guy is the definition of only having one bit but having it refined to perfection it never gets old lmao
Why would you think? 🤣
Yeah it’s pretty crazy his feed is like 4 years of the same exact bit but they all make perfect sense for sports fans
I honestly think what’s kept him going is how far out he takes the concept beyond sports, my favorite ones from him are him pointing out dumb English rules and spellings lol
True true I like those too.
Aren’t those his OG ones and then he expanded into other things?
why would you think -
NoooOOOOOoooo….
I heard his fucking voice when I read this and laughed
You can’t just be up there doin a checked swing…..
The bat whipped so hard when he tried to hold those wrists from breaking. Impossible call to make in real time, would’ve been a reasonable call either way.
There is not a definition for a check swing, but I have no problem saying this is a swing.
If he had made contact he would’ve gotten a hit 😭😭😭
Same as the one from yesterday. Anyone upset at either is just being biased. The fact that there is no clearly defined objective rule makes any somewhat borderline check swing one that can be called either way.
The one yesterday was clearly a swing. That was an egregious no swing call by the ump
My point is that anything that is somewhat close, which includes the call yesterday, is a fine call because it is a completely subjective call. Anyone trying to say it was clearly one way or the other on either call is just talking out of their ass because there is no way to back up their claim with anything rooted in objective thinking.
If it’s subjective then the majority opinion should be most correct. And pretty much everyone thought it was a swing yesterday. Thanks.
Lmao
Nah. He didn’t go around.
The bat head is as far out as the toes on his front foot. How is that not a swing?
That’s just clearly a check swing. Disagree… Downvote me… Don’t care. It’s plain as day. Dude is not swinging the head around on that. Check swing.
Also, to be clear I did not watch the game and have no context. Just flying in off the top ropes watching this without a clue as to the implications of it for the game.
Rule book: [A STRIKE is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire, which]: “Is struck at by the batter and is missed” (p. 158, funny the definition of a strike is that deep in the doc lol).
The rule is just, did the batter take a swing at the ball. The ump behind the dish clearly thought so. If you show that image in the parent comment to any impartial fan, many would have a very strong case for saying that’s a swing. The letter of the law says nothing about the head of the bat, relative location to the foot or plate, whatever. I think it’s inexcusable that there’s not at least some sort of vague way to determine when a swing gets checked (but I suppose that’s some of the charm of this sport). The ump believed the player tried to swing at the ball. I think the image backs that up, but of course, I am biased.
Imo, this is the photo of a man trying to strike a ball. You could say, that the ball here was “struck at by the batter and is missed”. And as such, it’s game over.
I just think saying it’s “plain as day” is either extremely naïve or intentionally obtuse.
Man. Talk about human aspect of umpires. Imagine seeing that swing and having to call whether or not he checked. Replays aren’t til after their call, which stands unless they have challenges and are successful. That whiplash of a swing was so fast and you have to make that call in that situation? These umps deserve a lot more than we give credit for.
And from 90 feet away.
Fr real
Looks like he went tbh
you can even see the ball going under the barrel of the bat
Imo this fact alone should make it a swing, his bat was fully in the strike zone while the pitch crossed home plate. If this was a bunt and he had his bat here while the pitch crossed the plate it woulda been called a strike
It’s probably foul on pull side.
I joke I joke.
for anyone looking for the ball in the image it’s piercing the middle of Yandy’s shin guard
This also shows how far from the ball was from the barrel of the bat, I know he’s hit less in the WS but if he was trying to swing he’d at least come close, which to me speaks to intent.
Ultimately - until there’s a rule, it’s vibes.
I’m not understanding the “controversy” in full speed you can see the blur of the bat going past a check swing. In slow replays, he goes well past it it’s not even close
But what is the definition of “past a check swing”…
That’s the fun part, there is no definition
Right…so I’m asking them how they know the blur of the bat was going past a check swing
They know cuz they’re talking out of their ass
he went. it’s hard to see in real time. but if you scrub frame by frame it’s clear
With how whippy that swing was it looked fucky, but play/pausing repeatedly looks like he did go. Good call.
It’s that tailing action from the end of the bat that convinces the umpires. Close enough where you can’t be surprised it was called a swing I guess.
So glad that 60 year old ump from 90 feet can determine what we need slow replay to do
lol. Definitely not clear.
Can you speed it up more
And more blur, too clear
Couldn’t slow the video down at all? It’s like a silent movie framerate lol
How do they not have technology that can solve this yet?
It’s because MLB is dumb and doesn’t actually have a defined rule for a checked swing and non-checked swing rule
That’s not true. They have a defined rule, but it relies on interpretation of actions.
Attempt to strike the ball = swing.
No attempt to strike the ball = no swing.
I’ve heard some announcers say it’s passing the top of the plate and others say it’s crossing the foul ball lineIdk which one is right
Neither is right because there is no rule.
Neither is right according to the MLB rule book. A check swing is 100% a discretion call by the umpire. The guidance in the rule book is if the umpire believes that the batter intended to swing at the pitch, the call should be a swinging strike. There is no written rule about where the bat travels.
MiLB has been trialing an ABS style video review of check swings that is very favorable to the batter. It’s like 45 degrees past the front of the plate is considered a swing. Once MiLB works out the kinks, I’m sure MLB will update the rule book and introduce video review on check swings.
It is neither, its supposed to be like a % of the swing. Theres no real rule tho
Its neither, a check swing just meant you intended to hit the ball
Technology or not, there are no clear rules to start with
If there is baseball next year, there will be a clear definition and challenge process for a check swing. Final strike of a World Series game and people can’t agree if the call was right or wrong. Absolute end of an era haha
Make it simple, if bat completely crosses the plate call it.
Like every check would be a strike in that case
That’s begging to be foul ball spammed. Just offer kinda and stay alive.
That’s pretty the point of foul ball swings now anyways though.
How can they solve it with technology when a checked swing isn’t even defined?
They do it was piloted in the minors this year.
Read somewhere they are testing for it.
They do. Just not in MLB yet.
They’re testing it in AAA.
And they have an actual measurable rule of 45 degrees.
45 seems crazy to me. There’s swords that wouldn’t even count as a strike at that point then. I think they should tone it down to something like 20%. Then it obviously went past parallel without being ridiculous.
They do. It’s in testing in minor and college leagues. It should get to the majors next year or very soon after.
…. isn’t it clearly like crosses the plane of the plate(this was a good one) also hips shoulders bat parallel when you aren’t swinging.
They began to test this last year.
Because the rule isn’t written with defined clear terms.
There used to be a thing on reddit back in the day that you could just type r/slowmotionbot or something like that and it would slow the posted video down by 2x or 5x,
old reddit was awesome
What needs to be ‘solved’?
You would need a definition of a swing in order to have something for a computer to look at and review. Baseball doesn’t have one
There isn’t a definition of a swing so basically whatever is called goes and the argument is dumb but whatever the definition ends up being, as there should be one, this should be a goddamn swing every time
If he’s bunting and his bat is here while the pitch crossed the plate it’s gonna be a strike
I aggree. He was fooled to the point his bat made it that far, and the ball fully passed him before his bat stopped forward motion. That needs to be a strike all day everyday.
Yeah, for me it’s not even the bat. He completely opened up his hips to basically his finishing position. I know a lot of people look at the bat, but when I used to umpire to make some extra money, I was always taught that the hips are a good reference to use as well. Don’t ignore the bat, but if it’s close, consider what their hips did as well.
Nah that’s a check
Every angle shown made me know it crossed the plate.
Unlike the umps calling Wilmer’s check a swing when it clearly wasn’t and helping the dodgers, I do think they called it right here.
Strike three!
Rays got the call yesterday, they didnt today. That’s life.
Yeah well churio was safe at home so go fuck yourself. ;)
cLeArLy dIdN’t gO
I can see Yandy’s leg and arms–and even the fan in red jacket–but where is the bat in that photo?
Ump: “Do not try to swing the bat. That’s impossible. Instead… only try to realize the truth.”
Yandy: “What truth?”
Ump: “There is no bat.”
Yandy “Barry Bonds without a bat” Diaz
The brown blur between his hands and the red shirt guy is the bat handle.
Red jacket man being the umbrella man of this particular Zapruder.
I don’t think I did a great job, but I circled where the bat is. It’s very hard to see and you’ll probably need to zoom in
But that’s a dong