Donovan Mitchell on James Harden: “I just truly believe the only reason why he’s not talked about in that realm (LeBron, Steph and KD) is because of championship conversations… really puts in perspective how BS a lot of the narratives are”
ugh yeah playing like crap when it matters separates the greats
Bro has been shitting his pants in big games as far back as the 2012 finals
Only reason OKC even made the Finals in 2012 is because of Harden’s play in the WCF against the Spurs
He also smashes a KD-less Warriors team in 2018 but KD got tired of competition
That narrative is so tired. He’s had bad playoff games but so has every great player
4 years ago Zach Lowe rewatched Harden’s famous chokes to see if people are too harsh on him. He’s had even more stinkers since then
“The media is sometimes guilty of fixating on one or two moments of a player’s postseason career and forgetting all the good ones that came before it - that happened with Lebron before he won a championship. James Harden’s postseason resume is lacking, almost completely lacking, in big moments since he hit a shot in San Antonio in the 2012 conference finals when he played 4 teams ago, for OKC. I did the deep dive. Harden’s 4th quarter numbers, in big games, in elimination games, in 2-2 series games, are bad. His crunchtime numbers are bad. Most of his best playoff games are when his team is up 3-0, down 3-0, up 3-1, down 3-1. I watched all of his field goal attempts in the 4th quarters of his postseason career, a lot of his crunchtime baskets are like “Oh GS is up 8, we’ll concede a layup so you don’t get a 3,” and Harden inflates his crunchtime field goal % from zero to something better than zero with essentially a conceded layup. Like right now, his postseason resume is justifiably defined by meltdowns - three 2-11 games!!!! The criticism of his postseason performance is not unfair, it’s not cherry picking, it has been below his standard moreso than it has been for almost any other superstar in recent NBA history. It’s time. The time is now, this is it.”
“The media is sometimes guilty of fixating on one or two moments of a player’s postseason career and forgetting all the good ones that came before it - that happened with Lebron before he won a championship. James Harden’s postseason resume is lacking, almost completely lacking, in big moments since he hit a shot in San Antonio in the 2012 conference finals when he played 4 teams ago, for OKC.
I did the deep dive. Harden’s 4th quarter numbers, in big games, in elimination games, in 2-2 series games, are bad. His crunchtime numbers are bad. Most of his best playoff games are when his team is up 3-0, down 3-0, up 3-1, down 3-1. I watched all of his field goal attempts in the 4th quarters of his postseason career, a lot of his crunchtime baskets are like “Oh GS is up 8, we’ll concede a layup so you don’t get a 3,” and Harden inflates his crunchtime field goal % from zero to something better than zero with essentially a conceded layup.
Like right now, his postseason resume is justifiably defined by meltdowns - three 2-11 games!!!! The criticism of his postseason performance is not unfair, it’s not cherry picking, it has been below his standard moreso than it has been for almost any other superstar in recent NBA history. It’s time. The time is now, this is it.”
Destroyed is an overused word in sports talk, but honestly, it fits that recap.
Lowe did the deep dive, and it’s clear - Harden is a generational choker.
Man this dude was trying to invalidate averaging 36 ppg against the kd warriors cut the shit
Never a mention about the roster didparities or his team always selling depth to duck the tax while harden is told to solo dynasties.
It absolutely is cherry picking when you alter what the definition of a “big game” is to eliminate good games lol
Idc what Lowe said. He said Jokic was a better player than prime Bron, Bird and Magic lmfao.
Harden’s playoff numbers in his prime years in HOU/BK are comparable to Luka’s so far
Harden’s stats plummet in elimination games, that’s the issue.
He’s had about 46 of 102 games where he had as many turnovers as points. Compared to LeBrons 18 of 300, Curry’s 13 of 155, and KDs 8 of 171.
I know if’s are about pointless in discussions like these, but IF they won the 18’ chip after knocking down GS (up 3-2 CP gets injured blah blah) then he has a resume that rivals someone like Giannis directly.
He’s had faulty playoff games, but in reality ONE in any one of those years would’ve made it not matter. Harden’s shat the bed himself a bunch of times, but he’s also had comical luck with his teams in the playoffs, especially post-Houston. His whole career will be remembered in such a weird way cause his failures are nuanced as fuck.
I think the greats have all gotten screwed over by injuries/bad luck a bunch of times. LeBron in 14-15, Steph in 18-19, etc etc. What makes you an all time player is performing in the clutch enough times to overcome bad luck/adversity, and that’s why Harden doesn’t get the same props – because it’s not just bad luck, he genuinely has underperformed a lot in high pressure situations.
I saw the Warriors flair and wanted you to be wrong but this is the correct take. Some bad luck, but also a lot of failures where the person to blame is in the mirror.
I agree with you but also want to add that to give yourself more “chances” to do so, not only you have to perform well, you have to have a good teammates/organization behind you, it’s just so many factors that some of them are out of your control and some of them factors are like a death penalty, for example : AD getting drafted by the Pelicans, if he stuck there(not traded to the Lakers) he wouldn’t be viewed as he is today.
As the guy said above, one year where the luck goes his way, and none of that matters. The only stark difference between him and Giannis is that Giannis was lucky enough to have everything go his way in 21 where everyone just got injured.
Otherwise, what does his resume look like? He had multiple years at that point where people considered him a big underperformer in the playoffs…and he hasn’t added much to his resume post 21..
Overcoming my ass. They got more cracks at it and had more help doing so. The problem with using championships to judge individuals is people constantly ignore how much of a TEAM accomplishment it is. The fact is the most stacked teams are the ones that win. Harden in his prime was not any stacked teams, aside from Brooklyn but we know what happened there. Even the 2018 rockets weren’t a great roster on paper and everyone was surprised at how dominant that team was.
Harden’s shat the bed himself a bunch of times, but he’s also had comical luck
Truly elite players shit the bed fewer times to take luck/variance out of the equation.
Exactly this. Harden HAS been lucky. In 2017 round 2 against the spurs, kawhi rolled his ankle game 5, and missed 4th quarter and OT. and he missed game 6.
Rockets lost both game 5 and 6.
Compare that to the warriors taking advantage of cp3 getting injured and winning.
He simply didnt take advantage of his opportunities. Every player at some point does get the luck side of injuries. He just choked his opportunity.
LeBron has a 5 minute highlight reels of crunch time playoff plays, harden isn’t close
I don’t think that nuance will last over time though, most of it is already lost and these are things that have happened within the past 10 years
if if if if if
Manu Ginobli blocked his last shot in 2017
Harden shot 41% from the field and 24% from 3 in the first 5 games of the 2018 WCF before Chris Paul got injured
As a Harden hater, I appreciate how many times you’ve posted this stat in this thread.
I’m only posting it because this sub doesn’t allow you to post images, else I’d post some screenshots of those box scores
If I was a 6’10 beast instead of a 5’11 joe I’d be an NBA star. You either are or you’re not that guy and Harden is not.
^^^^ things a casual would say. Context matters.
Would’ve been CP3s chip in my eyes
Rivals someone like Giannis? 50 point close out game vs being maybe the worst playoff performer ever when compared to regular season is a stretch
What’s the point of discussion if you can just “if” your way out of bad arguments? Sure, let’s just assume he didn’t lose the game he lost, that would give him a much better career. Duh.
Harden has a long career where he hasn’t even missed playoffs. He has played with a long list of stars in many different teams. That’s a big sample size, big enough that luck and injury stop being significant factors because it evens itself out both ways. Sure that one year he ran into KD Warriors, what about 16 other years?
The fact that people can’t even think of a single iconic Harden playoff series/game heroics but plenty of his famous chokes says everything you need to know.
Hard agree. It’s the big difference between Tmac and Kobe, Mitchell and Brunson, and why great players like Carmelo, Harden, CP3 etc will always be a tier below the best of the best
CP3 aint like thise. And thats why he went to the finals at least. Hes barkley level not harden tmac. They never had a defning playoff game
Harden went to the finals too. And CP3 didn’t get there till the end of his career.
Harden went to the finals behind Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant. CP3 was a bus driver alongside Booker.
CP3 was Harden before he was Harden. It’s obvious this subreddit is insanely young and wasn’t around back then.
CP3 was blowing 3-1 leads with a superteam to Harden’s solo Rockets. CP3 was a known choker.
Hes barkley level not harden tmac.
Harden is closer to Barkley level than Chris Paul is, like what the fuck are we doing here?
Harden never made the finals as a number 1. Even as Number 2 CP3 was the defining player on the rockets. You do know rockets had huge games without Harden. Hardne had blunders. Bro you dont know ball.
That’s why he went the finals? You casuals need to have a seat. He went to the finals because a bunch of superstars got injured. His team wasn’t great and proved it by losing to the other team that made it due to other teams being injured. He committed the worst foul ive ever seen to seal the win for the bucks.
Can’t lump cp3 in that crowd. Dude got injured in crucial moments in the playoffs. He should’ve won a chip in Houston.
???? Can’t lump him in with his MVP teammate because they should’ve both won a championship together?
Harden sucks in late stage playoffs. CP3 blossoms and becomes a monster the deeper he goes
If I remember correctly, TMac was struggling with his back issues when he could’ve made deep playoff runs.
Tmac got better in the playoffs. He just never had grant Hill, or a favored team.
Kobe had plenty of down moments in the playoffs
Playoff choker. Every time.
Yup.
That’s why MJ is goat and Wilt(ed) isn’t.
Yeah because KD had so much success after playing with Steph, Klay and Dray.
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Things I say when I realize I’m probably never winning a ring:
if Donovan ever wins a ring he’s gonna start saying things how “there’s nothing harder than winning a NBA championship” and “it’s the greatest achievement of my career”
probably thinks that securing the biggest guaranteed bag is the same as winning a championship
Honestly, I wouldn’t disagree with that sentiment
When the bag is 9 figures, fuck a ring lmfao
I mean it would be kinda true, no?
He’s thinking about himself compared to Brunson.
3 of the last 5 seasons for Donovan Mitchell ended in a playoff series loss to Brunson.
2022 Utah vs. Dallas
2023 Cleveland vs. New York
2026 New York vs. Cleveland.
Saying “the only reason” makes this statement disgingenuous. He knows its the playoff chokeouts. His overall playoff stats are phenomenal. It’s the pivotal games he’s known for disappearing most of all nowadays.
it says a fuck ton about how he views the game lol
and not in a good way
He knows he’s never sniffing one as a first option it’s proactive coping
People said the same thing about Brunson until the conference finals this year. You’d think a Knicks fan of all people would understand it’s a bad idea to count someone out just because everyone else does.
I doubt he cares what we think LOL
Yep and that should absolutely be counted towards as an intangible. TBH, I thought this was widely agreed upon.
It’s funny these conversations only started to appear in large numbers by opposing players and teams of the Knicks after the 2026 finals
It’s almost like the clutchness of a certain 6 foot point guard placing him in generational conversations is making them deeply uncomfortable
My group chat was losing it over Brunson being ranked like #5 on some list. “He’s getting overrated just because he won a ring!”
No. He’s getting proper credit after a monster 4 year run in the playoffs where he dominated nearly every series. That run culminated in a Finals MVP.
People are way dumber now and only look at who made it to the finals, how many all nba teams they have, etc. instead of actually watching and appreciating someone’s impact on the game lol
Number 5 what? All time lol? That is insane
First thing I thought. Spida is the James Harden of Tyrese Maxeys.
People are gonna finally start realizing that Maxey is better than Spida
Things I say when I realize KD winning rings in GSW shouldn’t really separate him in any meaningful way from players with no rings with similar skills
I agree with this, idk how KD is being ranked top 15 cuz of those two rings
I think he’s ranked top 15 because he’s played 18 years in the NBA averaging 27 points a game on .622 TS, literally one of the best scorers of all time
That alone doesn’t get you to top 15. Look at ringless greats like Stockton, K. Malone, Barkley
I mean, isn’t he more ranked top 15 because he is one of the most singular athletes in the history of the sport?
He said stuff like this last year as well. He already knows he won’t win anything so tries to justify that lmao
a lot of these guys, current or former players, are coping hard with this. It’s fine, they’re human and they need narratives to make sense of it all, but really, there’s only winning the chip.
The idea that there is only winning the chip is the narrative he’s talking about. Like, he’s half right there. He’s also sus for saying it in this context now so I’m gonna poke fun at it.
For real; no one who knows ball thinks that Kyrie > Dame but the perception of nephews and click-driven media narratives has been that Kyrie > Dame. He’s talking about a real thing.
But Kyrie won as that nowhere near the #1 option so it’s different.
People that vastly rank Kyrie too high are “ bag ” people not rings culture people. I see say Kyrie the most skilled player of all time etc still.
He just has a small but loud delusional fan base
Additionally they, as basketball players, just view things differently. We’re fans, ultimately to us it comes down to the results. The players are actually apart of the process which fans do not give a shit about 99% of the time.
there’s only winning the chip
Then you can’t blame Durant for the GS move.
Inb4 “No, not like that. It has to be the right way.”
sure you can
I get the championship culture hate, but Harden has been one of the biggest playoff chokers of all time. He’s directly at fault for not having any rings lmao
Right. Ultimately he was 10 of the 27 misses during the 0-for-27 moment.
Yeah, but he also hit a couple which were waived off.
As soon as Paul went out, we were doomed. Warriors already knew how to beat him cause they had so many times before.
There’s so many other games harden no showed in elimination games
I mean they were waived off cuz Scott Foster ain’t gonna let him flop/foul bait to the line. 😂😂
Right. The guy that can get 98% in all the homework assignments and quizzes but gets Cs and Bs on exams is not in the conversation as the guys that do well on homework, quizzes, and exams. Go figure. Lebron and Steph have risen in almost all playoffs they’ve been in, whereas harden has choked numerous times.
I get what you tried to do with the analogy but here’s a better one….
It’s like the guy who’s really good all the time EXCEPT when it matters most, then he’s ass cheeks.
Yeah so during the exams that are worth the most on your grade lol
That’s the exact same analogy except you took the school part out of it dawg…
You ever do the school thing?
He’s also one of the greatest floppers of all time and I’d talk crazy shit about him even if he had a ring. No respect for the shameless flopping
Where does the hate come from? It’s literally a team sport, winning will always be the most important achievement in basketball
The only real title chances harden had got derailed by injury what are we doing? How many cracks at it do you think a team that always ducked the luxury tax is gonna get?
Harden was supposed to solo the warriors with pablo prigono suiting up in a WCF? Come on
nah man he’s supposed to win the chip every year with rosters that are mid. hes a super choker for not and totally wouldn’t win on a team like the current knicks or kd warriors.
What about the pre-KD warriors in 2015? Or when he was a sixth man on the Thunder in the NBA finals? Or in game 7 against the Celtics in a wide open Eastern conference?
You’re just acting like all of his team losses were a foregone conclusion because now we understand in hindsight that he’s such a massive playoff dropper you can set your watch to it.
The 2015 Rockets season was a great season for them and for harden. You weirdos a decade later are trying to rewrite it as if it should be looked at as a bad thing.
Makes absolutely no sense. Go look at that team, their preseason odds, and the year before.
And sure we can hold a sophomore season against him for 20 years if you do the same for everyone elses sophomore year
He can certainly do better than 3⁄16, 2⁄11, and 12 turnovers in a game in the SAME SERIES.
Or 5⁄20 and benched while his backups comeback against the Clippers.
Or 2⁄11 and 6 turnovers against a Kawhi-less Spurs.
Or shooting better than 24% from 3 on 11 attempts in the 2018 WCF.
Or yet another 2⁄11 in a pivotal and winnable g4 against the Lakers.
Or 11ppg on 26% in the last 2 games against Boston.
Or 11ppg on 25% in the last 2 games against Dallas.
Or 7 points in game 7 against Denver.
I’ll give him 2019 (although he had some head scratching late game moments), 2026 (most consistent Cav believe it or not), and 2021-22 (injury) but other than that, his career is riddled with playoff underperformance and downright disasterclasses.
i love that game 3s and 4s become pivotal depending on if harden did good in them or not.
and that over half your list are series past his prime, when the context is obviously about his prime lmao
His teams OVERPERFORMED their expectations every single year. Its only been retroactively that people have decided to call them all chokes. He was never on teams favored to win because the team owner cared more about ducking the tax.
You can do this shit for every good player on bad teams.
Harden had two real chances. 2018 and 2021. That is a standard amount of chances to win for guys on teams that arent dynasties. Both of those teams were poised to win and got fucked by injuries. That’s it. Make whatever list you want and leave off all his good games, those werent real contenders
Yeah down 2-1, game 4 is pivotal. I expect the guy the empty the clip and at least play well.
Even forgetting his post-prime, he has plenty of performances to earn the label.
I love how you’re suggesting that we shouldnt expect one of the all-time volume scorers to perform when his back is against the wall? People called them chokes at the time as well, you’re not fooling anyone. His performance under pressure has been questioned since 2012, and he’s done nothing to silence that.
Nah you really can’t do that with every good player on bad teams (his teams aren’t even bad btw). Brunson, SGA, Giannis, Jokic, Kawhi, Curry, Butler… everybody expects them to perform when the lights are bright but not Harden. Maybe Westbrook and Embiid, but everybody knows he’s a playoff dropper and not nearly as good as prime Harden (and Embiid has the injury excuse).
It’s one thing to never win a title. Winning is a team accomplishment and extremely hard to do. There’s no shame in being a great player without a title. However, in James Harden’s case, there are so many instances where he even fails to show up in big postseason games. He’s never won a championship, and in a lot of the biggest games of his career, he’s one of the main reasons the team didn’t win. To be in the realm with LeBron James and Steph Curry, you need to preform well in the postseason consistently and win. Harden hasn’t done either of those things. It’s a fair criticism for Harden.
Personally I feel like Harden just can’t string together 4 strong W worthy games in a big series. On the Sixers AND the Cavs he bailed them out in multiple big games. And ofc he did it countless times on the Rockets. Then there were the other big games and he just sucked all the energy out of the building with a very lackluster showing. What separates him from Bron or Curry is the ability to contribute when things aren’t going his way.
Like yeah the step back is unstoppable but relying on a 35% shot to carry you in 4 series is just not feasible and Curry or Bron just brought advantages and key plays that still massively benefitted their teams when they struggled with the scoring portion of the game through 2-3 quarters.
Harden, imho, also has a mental block regarding this. Once he realizes he bricks his most important shots, he just continues to force them rather than attacking the rim, resulting in freak games like 2018 G7. Idk in general I just think it’s a mental thing with him, as he was by all means skilled enough to break through MVP + FMVP territory. And a fair bit of bad luck, too, to be fair
He literally has too many playoff disaster games to count on both hands.
The worst part is some of his losses are the standard concert date shooting performances, but a lot of others are games where he just seemed scared to even look at the rim. The game 7 he had against the Nuggets two years ago comes to mind when he shot like 2⁄9, horrific watch.
The Boston one a few years ago has to be the worst one and I thoroughly believe Daryl Morey decided after watching that game to not give Harden his money which led to the “Daryl Morey is a liar” comments. I’d be sick to my stomach giving a player a full max after watching a performance like that in Game 7.
It’s this shit. It’s one thing to drop 30 and play make and then just get beat. That happens.
But he has not been a presence or just a traffic cone in far too many games where just his average career performance would have likely taken the day.
That ability to have that HOF talent on display even in a disadvantageous position separates Harden from his notable peers.
He’s an amazing player but has just been so inconsistent in playoff series in a way that the inner circle players just aren’t. You can bet on some heaters for 2 wins a series probably but the rest of the games are always a crap shoot.
Scottie Pippen without MJ?
Which teams of Hardens do you think actually had a chance to win during his prime?
The answer is only 2018 and 2021.
What happened to those teams?
Injuries. That’s it.
Dude knows he’s going to end up just like him lol
This is wildly disrespectful to James Harden.
Mitchell’s peak is no where close to Harden’s
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I totally agree but both can be true.
At the end of the day, Harden is an MVP and his years with the rockets remain some of the most impressive offensive package we’ve seen. He’s also going to be remembered for popularizing the modern step back 3.
He might not be in top 10-20 conversations, but it’s still James Harden
“The only reason they don’t consider him the GOAT is due to his lack of achievements!!!”
Monta Ellis have it all
Lack of team achievements. He is individually very accomplished.
In comparison to the rest of them? No he isnt lmao
Isn’t he?
3x scoring champ, 2x assist leader, 8 all nbas, 6 first teams, 11 all stars and an MVP.
Stacks up pretty well with KD and definitely Steph.
So was Adrian Dantley
He’s a box score technician. Glad he got his stats, his MVP, and insane money. But you can’t beg people to love you
I don’t think Harden has ever begged anyone for shit or really said shit lol. It’s mostly just people online talking shit with no response.
The most harden has said was “I know how good I am” and saying “Im the system” thats about it
convenient players want fans to care less about winning
Specifically players who specialize in offensive stats or highlight plays and struggle with defense.
I would much prefer Mitchell in the playoffs to Harden but neither is getting you into the finals.
Counterpoint; the only reason Harden doesn’t have championships is because he’s not on the level of Lebron, Steph, and KD.
Having said that, those three are top-20 all-time players. James Harden is incredible and deserves more respect
You should not group KD with LeBron and Steph
That’s the grouping from DMitch’s quote. Personally I put LeBron above them both, but I think KD is pretty close to Steph all-time. His legacy is less sterling but he’s still a one-of-one basketball freak
Lebron tried to join 4 super teams but KD is a ring chaser. Shits goofy
LeBron never joined a championship team lmao…he was part of building championship team. KD is alone in the bitch shit he did
Idiot
Legitimately think Donovan Mitchell has had more memorable playoff moments than James Harden.
Man like only last year harden on the last minute was better
If he went instead of kd he gets two rings maybe even more with warriors
Fuck no
I think a third splash brother would have been nowhere near as impactful as KD.
The rockets had to miss 27 straight threes just so the warriors could get past them. That was the real finals that year
Harden was a floor general that could also score he wouldve fit in and dished out 20 dimes to the other two and when they got doubled he would score
Harden can play basketball one way. That’s the Harden offense. To win 4 rounds in the playoffs you have to have some diversity. Harden’s teams were one trick ponies. Those Warriors teams could beat you 10 different ways.
Not saying he’s not capable of fitting into that Warriors offense, but he has never shown that he’d be able to play any sort of read and react and move without the ball to create opportunities for other people.
Hes a floor general he would have 20 assists a game with currys off ball movement and klay as back up
We wouldn’t never have moved Steph off the ball for harden lol
But a guy with a 35% usage rate making every decision is not what that offense was. It’s ok if you don’t understand how he would have fundamentally changed the way that team played, and yeah he’d get a lot of neat stats. But this isn’t 2K.
Even if he doesn’t, the worst case scenario is that GSW just run offence where Harden takes ball up with Dray screening for him. KD was iso heavy too at times
he had Prime KD and Russ
He had two non bus drivers he needed to be on the warriors riding currys bus
No its because his teams were way undermanned having to go against all in dynasties while his teams owner ducked the tax his entire prime
Absolutely. He was completely undermanned when the Spurs in 2017 were missing Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker in Game 6 and he dropped a legendary 10 points on 2⁄11 shooting with 6 turnovers as Houston got blown off the court by 39 points.
He was also terribly undermanned in 2019 when the Warriors lost Kevin Durant to injury, yet Harden and a healthy Chris Paul still couldn’t force a Game 7 against Steph Curry who had zero points at halftime.
And who could forget 2022, when Harden managed 11 points against a dynasty level Miami team in an elimination game, including zero points and just two shot attempts in the entire second half.
the only reason Harden doesn’t have championships is because he’s not on the level of Lebron, Steph, and KD.
There were a few years where Harden clearly was on that level.
Like before KD got injured Harden was going toe-to-toe with KD as the best player in the series in 18-19, and Harden had a better regular season than both Steph and KD and Steph was hot garbage in that series.
Also, 20-21 Harden was probably the best player on the Nets before his hammy injury. At worst he was again going toe-to-toe with KD as the best player on that team.
In the regular season yeah
In 18-19 and 20-21, I am referring to both regular and postseason.
20-21 was limited due to Harden’s injury, but he was just as good if not better than KD against Boston before he got injured.
Imma hard disagree with you. KD and Steph and LeBron were balling outta their minds while Hardens best years were spent with 90% of the time the league and fans pissed off that he wasn’t being called for travel on that ridiculous quick step 3.
I wouldn’t call “the league doesn’t have a rule for your bullshit yet” being on the same caliber as guys going for it.
Like in a fighting video game, idc if you beat me 100x by admitting you’re abusing a broken combo, I’m not gonna say you’re better than me. You’re just better at cheating something.
That’s why every one of his biggest moments in playoff basketball that required just good basketball when the 3 wasn’t being given to you for free, he’s non existent.
I would put Harden above KD still if picking one. KD is still a bus rider. He’s never been the guy and I don’t care if people try to say he was better than Steph in any finals.
KD and Harden have been on the same team numerous times, and KD has always been better
They were on the same team before Harden became Harden and then after/during Harden’s injuries.
Regardless of how you feel about them h2h I don’t think the time they were on teams together is a meaningful part of that discussion.
Y’all are so hilarious with these takes
So is every player in the “top 10” according to everyone
What? I literally said top-20
Top 12
Durant is not top 12
No he doesnt. Playoff Donovan mitchell is better than him.
Harden doesnt have 1 defining playoff game. Mitchell got 50 how many times
Edit: Yall hooked on phonics kids downvoting me. Name me 1 defining playoff game Harden had. All i know are his blunders.
Oh hell nah
I mean yall pretty much allow this slander so idk why yall not surprised that it’s turning into literal hyperbole before your eyes
Bro I was in HS when I watched THAT rockets warriors series.
James has and always will get his flowers from me, top 10, arguably top 5 sg of all time.
Before you ask, MJ, Kobe, dwade obviously. There’s a case for him over Jerry, but like who else? Harden was a walking bucket.
Look where that’s got Mitchell.
Harden is actually quite a bit more efficient of a playoff scorer than Donovan Mitchell, and that’s including all of Harden’s post-prime numbers and Mitchell has none of that yet.
Also, Mitchell is not even half of the playmaker that Harden is.
Read. Defining playoff game.
Okay, but what did that define? Constant second round exits at best until they actually got James Harden and made the conference finals while Don shit himself for most of the first two series’?
The goal is to win a championship. Many great players have not. It happens.
The rings debate definitely sucks but that is the ultimate goal though. Also, I hate to say it, but Harden has put up a lot of duds in the playoffs.
Like duds where he doesn’t even look interested. I don’t mind if a player has a bad game. As long as they’re taking their shots, being aggressive and trying to make play. I’ll be okay. He just doesn’t show up during some games and it’s really odd.
Yep. Is not exclusive to harden, or even basketball.
In spots, the whole point is to win the ultimate goal. The championship, the Superbowl, the world cup, the Olympic gold, etc.
Players who win the highest goal are rightfully more celebrated than the ones that don’t. It’s not unfair at all.
And even prime harden is considered a top 5 player of his era… He just wasn’t as good as the others. And he has his hair share of switching teams to win rings. He just couldn’t do it.
Championship?
How about playoff series implosions? Or total lack on interest on defense?
Is that not the whole point of the game?
And it’s not just he has no chip - he has spectacularly flamed out in pressure playoff situations. That being said I hold the belief that the NBA plays more like James Harden than Steph Curry - so who really changed the game more?
Yes, but I think it’s also fair to say there’s also a lot of things that need to break right on your way to a championship run too that are out of your control, one of them being injury luck. And Harden had bad luck there. For example, if things break differently for Harden, Kawhi, and Giannis on their best potential title runs then their legacy’s are viewed completely differently.
- In 2018 if CP3 doesn’t get injured, there’s an extremely good chance Houston wins the WCF and Harden gets one of the highest valued rings of the last 20 years by virtue of beating a KD Warriors team with Curry, KD, Klay, and Draymond all healthy. He’s absolved of his playoff chokes like Dirk was with the 2011 ring.
- Giannis is absolved of all his playoff chokes with his 2021 title but if KD, Kyrie, and Harden are all healthy he likely gets bounced by the Nets before even reaching the ECF and his legacy is being a playoff choker as well.
- Kawhi got his ring with the Raptors largely off the KD Warriors being injured in the Finals. If they’re healthy, he likely doesn’t get a ring and his post-SA tenure is likely viewed as a huge disappointment with multiple choke jobs with the Clippers.
Winning a title is extremely hard and unfortunately his best chance got ruined with poor injury luck
If harden had joined the warriors and won a couple rings he’d be a goat?
No one takes KD’s rings seriously.
Wish this were true, but since he won 2 FMVP I think people do.
When people put him in top 15 discussions, that’s in large part due to the rings right?
Yeah but you’re obtuse imo. If KD got that accomplishments on any other team, he’d be a what? lock top 12 or even top 10? Now people can’t deny his talent but when viewed as a whole, he’s getting ridiculed for that move. Some won’t even put him in top 15 just because of it. I’ll always like kd and his years with the dubs but that’s the general consensus with his rings i feel like
That’s his point. The other the guy says winning a ring is “the whole point of the game” yet everyone clowns kd’s rings
Winning isn’t the whole point, it’s how you do it too
Not the goat because even with a couple of championships he would be far from the greats but he for sure would have a higher ranking than now if he went to a team and was the best player (or second) in a championship team two times.
To be fair, that’s the reason KD isn’t thought of on Lebron/Steph level.
Lebron and Steph both have a couple obvious superteam rings (Lebron’s ‘12/‘13 and Steph’s ‘17/‘18), but they also each have additional rings aside from those. On the other hand, KD’s 2 rings were with a superteam, with none beyond that.
This is the kind of conversation that i agree with D-Mitch as being BS. Anyone who knows anything about basketball knows how ungodly incredible KD is. Yes, his championships are worth less because he played on superteams, and yes that affects his legacy, but from an all-time player level Durant absolutely belongs on the highest level
You’re just being vague. Do you put KD top 10? What makes him not top 5?
You’re speaking in complete vague generics and vibes lol, which is in itself essentially “BS.”
Durant is an all-time player — but even if you strip the rings away, Lebron and Steph are far more impactful on winning than him. Prime Lebron gives you generational slashing, generational playmaking, a killer midrange, and great wing defense. Prime Steph gives you generational shooting, generational off-ball playmaking/gravity/movement, and great driving ability/handles/on-ball playmaking. KD gives you one of the most efficient high-volume scorers of all time from all 3 levels, which is superb — but aside from that, not too much else. Good help defense and some basic playmaking, but that’s about it.
Remember that basketball is a 5v5 game, not 1v1. If we’re talking 1v1, KD arguably clears both Lebron and Steph — but the latter 2 are uniquely impactful in 5v5 bc of how they bend defenses in different ways.
The statistics back it up too. There’s a reason large simple size impact metrics like 5-year RAPM rate Lebron and Steph as having far greater positive impact than KD.
You can watch the film too. Since his Warriors tenure, we’ve seen how KD tends to struggle in the playoffs with double teams and bc of his more limited playmaking skillset. And, because he doesn’t have as much impact beyond scoring. Steph and Lebron, on the other hand, are significantly more all-around dominant in the playoffs than KD.
Durant never won as the man and that matters when talking about all time players. You can say skill for skill he’s one of the best and stuff like that but he had chances to lead his team to a ring and he failed and then he cut and run and joined the team that beat him.
Durant is first ballot HOF and minimum top 30 all time before he ever put on a warriors uniform
No, but neither is Durant.
Maybe, but he’d have to actually play well in those playoff series. Historically he has not. Your argument is that it comes down to ring or no ring but the reality is that people are under the impression that he could be playing better than he is, and they’re getting that impression by watching him in the regular season lol
Not sure they do.
Yeah okay lol
you making fun of how long NY went without a championship only reinforces how much a championship matters
? If they’ve waited this long all the power to them they’ve been mocked for years
29 point lead
That’s right we dicked down your wimby baguette
Nope. The point is to put asses in the seats and sponsorships on the jerseys
Winning may have the point when people were 15-18, but even in this current timeline, the point at that age for players of high caliber is to sell themselves to profit as much as they can before their flame has burned out.
Sad but true
Well he was unstoppable in the regular season and middling in the playoffs, I hate to say it but he was a mental midget when it mattered.
Sadly in his prime, he was a one man show (those teams hardly ever touch a chip). Best years imo were when he had cp3 on the rockets but cp3 is cursed
This is probably an unpopular opinion but I do think Harden and KD are on a similar tier. KD has been a playoff dropper at every point in his career except for Golden State where he had the perfect situation around him.
Imagine if Harden was on a team with an elite defense, a player who was better than him on offense and multiple complimentary pieces to shore up his flaws.
All time i don’t think they are too far apart but KD has been better in the playoffs. He was better in the finals than Russ and harden.
KD was good in the playoffs with the Thunder as well
Except when he choked away a 3 1 lead .
I suspect he was a goldbricker
28/6/6 in 8 playoff years in Houston is not “middling”
I kinda feel bad for the Cavs at this point. I hope they have themselves a fun and enjoyable time in the regular season.
You mean the narrative you can’t win a title with Harden as your #1?
Exactly. This guy is not in the same building as those guys
Lol, he is already doing PR for when he retires without a ring
I think whats so hard for folks to understand (at every level) is that it’s not skill or talent that keeps Harden out of the conversation. Theres more to it than that, there’s intangibles those other guys mentioned have which in no small part is the reason they have championships, plural. There’s no good way to describe those qualities because they vary from player to player, so it gets reduced to rings.
Well Harden also sells in big moments, which stats do show lol.
He is also a foul baiting actor on the court. Hate his game
This is the biggest thing. Both Lebron and Steph (and KD) had have their “choke” moments. But their accomplishments outside of that vastly outweigh those moments. Hardens entire playoff legacy has come down to historic meltdowns in the biggest moments.
Through in the foulbaiting and yeah. Are media narratives BS? Most of the time yes. But it’s hard to argue that even if Harden wins 1 championship, I don’t think he’s in that conversation with Steph or Lebron.
It’s because those of us who watched his prime hated how he played basketball
Also: Harden’s numbers declined with age faster than KD Steph LBJ
I bet conversation around James Harden’s different if he just played like himself in the playoffs especially in deciding games: win or lose.
It’s the fact that his team not only consistently loses big games/series but he shrinks in those moments at the same time. This has NOTHING to do with ring culture.
I mean he does play like himself in the playoffs, that’s exactly why most of you guys talk shit about him. The whistle disappears in the playoffs even when it’s clear fouls and he gets tired very fast being the entire offense for large stretches of the playoffs without any secondary shot creators. Hard to overcome your secondary creator being Eric Gordon when you’re going against one of the greatest teams assembled
Just insanity. Pure insanity.
One of the most batshit things I’ve ever read.
Bc Donovan is also in the same situation
How does it have nothing to do with ring culture if the criticism is that he shrinks in big games?
The criticism in essence is “you can’t win a championship with him”, therefore his career is downplayed.
That’s ring culture.
For ring culture argument to hold water, he needs to have played big time in big games, his team still losing, and get criticized for not being able to win.
But his problem is that he consistently shrinks all the time in big moments. Win or lose. That’s the criticism and that’s his problem. NOTHING to do with ring culture.
He didn’t have supporting cast. He had CP3 one year who got injured. He had a declining Westbrook. He had a washed Dwight. His starting lineup had players like Omer Asik and Pablo Prigioni - folks that no one remembers lol.
Kobe had shaq/pau
Steph had Klay/KD/wiggins/dray at one point or another.
KD had Steph and Klay
LeBron had Kyrie, wade, bosh, AD etc.
You can lose in the playoffs and still be looked at positively, you just have to still play well.
You can’t consistently lose, and consistently play worse in the playoffs. Thats harden
Doesnt make sense though. He always took his teams further than they were expected to go, people just didnt like how they did it so they exaggerated how bad his losses were lol
How many times did he lose as favorites? It was only the blazers series iirc but that was like his first time leading his own team
If they don’t go 0-28 or whatever it is, his legacy is completely different.
It is what it is. He has enough money to be ok and get over it 😂
Supporting cast argument is moot because this isn’t about his ability to win in big moments or lack-there-of. This is about his ability to step up. Personally. And he has notoriously shrunk in big games. If he played big time and they still lost then you can point at the supporting cast. If he needed supporting cast to play well himself, then he isn’t that guy and the argument becomes about his own ability rather than any ring culture.
Holy cope. Declining Howard? He was 2nd team all pro their first season together. It just was the James harden show there so Howard touched the ball less and less in their time together.
Westbrook was 3rd team all nba in their year together. Problem was that was never gonna work cuz they basically play the same game. They both need to dribble the ball for at least 15 seconds of every shot clock.
Those rockets teams with CP3 were pretty incredible. You’re discounting the talent those teams had. PJ Tucker and Ariza were tier 1 role players in their prime years. Eric Gordon was arguably the best 6th man in the league at that time. Capela got DPOY votes those years and parlayed it into a big deal after his time in Houston.
The problem is harden shrinks in the playoffs. He doesn’t consistently play a brand of basketball that’s conducive to winning. It’s usually a little selfish and more about his own scoring. Not the kind of point guard I would want to play with.
No doubt one of the best offensive talents of all time. But his game left a lot to be desired. We didn’t even get to how bad of a defender he’s been in his career. I’m always so dumbfounded whenever the harden vs Wade debate gets brought up. It’s not even close.
Look up playoff averages for tier 1 role players you mentioned. Rockets would have beaten KD’s GS if it wasn’t for CP3 injury and Scott Foster.
Dwight Howard had a nice 18/11/1.8 season when he made 2nd team. Rockets lost in first round where a 5th year Harden and Dwight both played well, averaging 27 and 26 ppg respectively.
That team was nowhere near as good as spurs who won it that year with big 3 and Kawhai.
The point here is that when LeBron Steph and KD won, they clearly had the best team. I’d argue that maybe LeBron’s team in Cavs wasn’t the best when it won but that’s the only outlier. Still better than what harden has had.
Tucker shot 48%FG and 46%3P- plus defender who was guarding KD most of the series. Ariza shot like shot like shot - 28%3P. But similar to tucker - more of his value is in the defense he brings. They both can switch 1-3 and matchup against slight 4s.
Do you remember what hardens averages were those playoffs? 41%FG - 29%3P.
It’s not a wonder why he’s not talked about with Bron, KD, and Steph. They’re all a tier above him as players. They’ve all been able to take teams to championships. They all play better basketball than him. They play within a team structure despite being the best players. They’re not ball stoppers at times like harden is. Physically he’s there with them in talent but his games lacks compared to them. Those three are some of the most efficient players the game has ever seen.
|Rank|Game|Harden’s stats|Why it was bad|
|1|2017 vs. Spurs, G6|10 PTS, 2⁄11 FG, 6 TO|Eliminated at home by 39 points against a Spurs team missing Kawhi Leonard and Tony Parker.|
|2|2015 vs. Warriors, G5|14 PTS, 2⁄11 FG, 12 TO|NBA playoff-record 12 turnovers in a conference finals elimination game.|
|3|2025 vs. Nuggets, G7|7 PTS, 2⁄8 FG, 13 AST|Clippers eliminated by 19; Harden finished -29.|
|4|2024 vs. Mavericks, G5|7 PTS, 2⁄12 FG, 1⁄7 3PT, 4 TO|Shot 16.7%, finished -25, and lost by 30 in a pivotal Game 5.|
|5|2023 vs. Celtics, G7|9 PTS, 3⁄11 FG, 5 TO|Philadelphia lost by 24 after leading the series 3–2.|
|6|2022 vs. Heat, G6|11 PTS, 4⁄9 FG, 9 AST|Attempted just two shots in the second half of an elimination game.|
|7|2023 vs. Celtics, G6|13 PTS, 4⁄16 FG, 0/6 3PT|Failed to close out Boston at home, shooting 25%.|
|8|2026 vs. Knicks, G4|12 PTS, 2⁄8 FG, 0/6 3PT|Cleveland was swept in the conference finals.|
|9|2024 vs. Mavericks, G6|16 PTS, 5⁄16 FG, 0/6 3PT|Another inefficient elimination game, ending the Clippers’ season.|
|10|2021 vs. Bucks, G7|22 PTS, 5⁄17 FG, 2⁄12 3PT|Brooklyn lost in overtime, though Harden was playing through a hamstring injury.|
|11|2018 vs. Warriors, G7|32 PTS, 12⁄29 FG, 2⁄13 3PT|Houston blew a double-digit lead and missed 27 consecutive threes as a team.|
|12|2019 vs. Jazz, G3|22 PTS, 3⁄20 FG, 2⁄13 3PT|Missed his first 15 field-goal attempts, although Houston still won.|
|13|2018 vs. Timberwolves, G2|12 PTS, 2⁄18 FG, 1⁄10 3PT|Shot just 11.1% from the field, despite a Houston victory.|
|14|2023 vs. Celtics, G2|12 PTS, 2⁄14 FG, 0/6 3PT|Followed his spectacular 45-point Game 1 with a 14.3% shooting performance.|
|15|2026 vs. Pistons, G7|9 PTS, 2⁄10 FG, 0/6 3PT|Shot 20% in a Game 7, although Cleveland survived.|
|16|2020 vs. Thunder, G7|17 PTS, 4⁄15 FG, 1⁄9 3PT|Shot 26.7% in an elimination game, but Houston narrowly survived.|
|17|2015 vs. Clippers, G6|23 PTS, 5⁄20 FG|Shot 25% and sat on the bench during Houston’s historic fourth-quarter comeback.|
|18|2012 vs. Heat, Finals G4|8 PTS, 2⁄10 FG|Oklahoma City fell behind 3–1 in the NBA Finals.|
|19|2012 vs. Heat, Finals G3|9 PTS, 2⁄10 FG|Shot 20% in a narrow Finals loss, contributing to Oklahoma City’s series deficit.|
Why would you even post an obviously AI generated table, without even adding any analysis or commentary of your own. GTFO you NPC loser and never do this again. Reddit is a place for humans.
what you talkih about i made this, i worked real hard on it
Notice it will be players that are great that haven’t won anything that always say it.
And when his teams lose, it’s usually in unbelievable ways like 27 three-pointers in a playoff game
Trying to defend a teammate, cool, but this is just so ridiculous to say…
Tell me you don’t know anything about James harden without telling me
The blowout elimination game vs the Spurs rings very loud for Harden. They didn’t even have Kawhi or Tony Parker. Shit like that happened too often for an all time great.
Yeah, and I’m sure you’re the epitome of athleticism
Lol. The classic “let’s see YOU do better’, when talking to internet randos about the performance of professionals. The ultimate white flag.
You don’t have to be a world class chef to taste food and not like it.
It would be less embarrassing for you to just admit you’re wrong and you don’t have an argument.
Yea but I get paid to crunch numbers. Not be athletic. And when I fuck up in a huge way it gets remembered too.
😆 you first
It’s not just that he hasn’t won, it’s that he crumbles into a shell of himself in the playoffs.
Playoff dropper defends bigger playoff dropper
It’s because he played a despicable brand of ball.
Yesssss
Ah here we go again with this bullshit
He is very mid on defense and that is being generous.
Says a guy that’s never won a championship 😂🤦🏾
Definitely laying the groundwork for his post career legacy talk when he has zero rings
He married a championship 😏😏
I was just about to say lol
he will… he needs to fly to curry so he can help him <3
Mitchell always had a solid team around him too
Just affirming Mitchell here my guy lol
No. It’s not BS. That’s the exact reason he’s not in those conversations
He’s also just you know, not as good
Chokes when it matters the most maybe… 🤔
James ‘Heimlich’ Harden
James Harden loses playoff series that his team weren’t favored to win anyway and gets shitted on for that, spent his peak dealing with Steph Curry and his 2 All-Star teammates, and when he finally gets a chance to win with an actual stacked, favored to win roster, he gets a hamstring injury and had to deal with an anti-vax Kyrie. The cruelest bullshit is that he’s a 37 year old out of his prime and is still expected to hard carry his teams. Exactly what the fuck do y’all want from Harden?
ironically, you cherry picked all the times where there wasn’t that much criticism. nobody expected him to win vs the warriors and it’s not his fault for losing in brooklyn when he’s injured. it’s really not that he’s lost playoff series but moreso he’s very likely to drop. 2-11 fg 6to game in game 6⁄7
He is one of the biggest playoff chokers in NBA history, let’s not pretend he gets shitted on just because he has zero rings
That honor belongs to Joel Embiid. Let’s not talk about rings yet. Harden has made to conference finals 5 times. How about the 2023 MVP?
If injuries dont fuck him in 2018 or 2021 nobody is saying any of this
When has Harden carried a team in the playoffs 😂
He was an iron man for 8 years in houston, got fat to force a trade, and then suffered a major injury that probably cost him a ring because of it. Greek tragedy
Rewriting history in ways like this is exactly why I cannot stand NBA discourse anymore
You never know exactly what causes an injury, but it seems less than coincidental that he gets a major soft tissue injury after showing up to training camp late and out of shape.
I think it’s a convenient excuse to use for a player everyone hates more than anything. He didn’t show up to anything out of shape, I would love to see what player shows up out of shape and drops 44⁄17 without a sweat
I mean that’s mostly true but it also ignores that he plays BELOW EXPECTATION in playoff series where he’s expected to compete or have the possibility of winning.
The key is that he is expected to be playing better based on his regular season performance, and instead he is playing worse.
Not just 2 all-star teammates… Draymond was all-nba, 7th in mvp, dpoy. Klay was all-nba and all-defense
He averages an 18-6-7 on 50% TS in 9 Game 7s in his career. Fantastic player who is fundamentally disqualified from KD/Steph/LeBron conversations.
So when he wasn’t the favourite in a playoff series, that’s fair excuse to just pack it in and play like shit?
Fuck outta here with this revisionist dogshit
The Spurs were heavy favorites to win a championship when the finals started last year. Like 70%. All time great players are definitely expected to overcome adversity and not just pack it up and miss 27 3s in a row.
ppl are aware it wasnt him missing 27 in a row right
He actually went 4-11 but they waived off made 3s for no reason
What defining moment does James have that separates him from the pack? Like the other three have multiple “that mf” moments you can point to that put them in their own class. Particularly in the playoffs. I can’t think of one for James that puts him in that rare air. And that’s not to say he isn’t exceptionally talented, but there’s still a gap between him and the other three
Harden won three straight scoring titles and the 2018 MVP, so the regular season résumé is already there. It’s the playoff stretches that keep the conversation going, fair or not.
Your contradicting your own point. If there was some kind of regular season championship that harden won than it would improve his argument. The fact that you basically said the regular season is pointless except for playoff determination actually proves the other point
wtffffffffffff are you talking about lol
Harden has never been him. Never forget his constant playoff letdowns.
I would just add for the context that he did have some great playoff performances, but when his team gets closer to the deciding games, he just becomes invisible. Now that wouldn’t be much of a problem if his teams didn’t depend on his good performance.
Shit defense. Flopping. Foul baiting. Traveling.
If he just made a couple of those Game 7 missed threes, things would be completely different
Or if they called clear landing fouls which was a fucking point of emphasis during the season.
He did. Scott Foster waived them.
He fucking did but Scott Foster is corrupt
Coulda shoulda woulda
Spoken like someone that’s only made it to the conference finals once.
Harden had his chances.
He chokes and disappears in big games in the playoffs
The guys he compares Harden to have their best games when it counts
Meanwhile Harden:
2017 Western Conference Semifinals (Game 6 vs. San Antonio Spurs): In a must-win home elimination game without Kawhi Leonard on the floor for San Antonio, Harden put up a dismal 10 points on 2-of-11 shooting with 6 turnovers and fouled out as the Rockets were blown out by 39 points.
2017 Western Conference Semifinals (Game 2 vs. San Antonio Spurs): After winning Game 1, Harden fell flat with just 20 points on 3-of-17 shooting (2-of-9 from three-point range) in a 25-point blowout loss.
2026 Eastern Conference Playoffs (Cleveland Cavaliers vs. New York Knicks): During the postseason run with Cleveland, Harden faced intense criticism after multiple low-impact games, including a Game 2 performance where he managed 10 points on 3-of-13 shooting and an elimination/sweep context where his scoring and ball-security collapsed down the stretch.
Turnover-to-Field-Goal Imbalances: Across his playoff career, Harden has finished over 25% of his postseason games (roughly 46 to 48 out of 180+ games) with more turnovers than made field goals, highlighting recurring struggles with ball security and efficiency when defenses tighten.
Game 7 Losses with Four Franchises: Harden is the only player in NBA history to lose a Game 7 with four different organizations (Houston Rockets, Brooklyn Nets, Philadelphia 76ers, and LA Clippers)
Literally the worst star player to have on your team in an elimination game.
Context matters when it comes to rings for sure. Danny Green and Patrick McCaw’s rings don’t mean much compared to KD’s but KD’s 2 is not on Brunson’s or SGA’s level imo.
Bus riders and drivers are treated differently for a reason.
Danny Green is a terrible example. He played impactful basketball for three different championship teams.
Do you think his impact is better than KD’s?
Even with how useful his contributions are his rings will be tied to the main guy on his team not him.
No matter how impactful you are or be Big Shot Rob level of clutch, if you are not the main guy, you will just be regarded as a great role player.
You can’t compare them to real no. 1s or those on the same level or close to it.
Truth is Harden especially on the Rockets never had enough depth and talent around him to win.
The KD warriors were stacked whereas the depth of the Harden rockets was much worse
he had the team in 2018. just didn’t work. and he didn’t play well enough in game 7
Dawg he was going up against two top 20 players, the best defensive player of their generation and a top 5 shooter of all time with no other all stars on the roster due to CP3 being hurt. LeBron’s Cavs didn’t do anything against the KD Warriors either.
I don’t agree with the point Mitchell is making that Harden is in the same tier as LeBron and Curry, but people blame him for losing to a super team with nothing but role players. You want to blame him for 2014 and 2017 when he legitimately played like dogshit in a series the Rockets probably should have won, have at it. You want to blame him for his awful 2015 WCF game 5 performance, that’s fair. I feel like blaming Harden’s losses on his play from 2018-2020 doesn’t really make sense though.
That’s why he doesn’t have dirks aura.
Well yeah.
Harden is overrated trash. Great for fantasy leagues. That is it
Donavan talking up Harden in the hope that some day a younger teammate will say the same things about him
Fitting take from another player who falls short in the playoffs. Obviously i have no room to judge as an armchair critic but their failures in the playoffs are a valid reason to put them below players who excel in the playoffs consistently.
The best players show up in high pressure situations.
No one cares if you score a lot in the regular season
once again it was rough last year watching harden TO the ball to new york over and over and over, i knew that series was over.
Both Mitchell and Harden cannot carry their teams in the playoffs. Both of them shrink as well. Mitchell wants Harden to be included in stratosphere of Steph, Bron and KD so that someday, he can justify including himself as well.
very convenient for him to say this lol
Donovan prepping for his own future narrative
He’s really advocating for himself here
Yeah, who cares about the whole winning thing anyway?
winning doesn’t matter as much as stats says man who has put up stats without winning when it matters
KD and Harden both get stick for constantly wanting to switch teams and never settling. But the difference between the 2 is every fanbase wouldn’t mind having KD as he will show up and produce when it matters
Mitchell hasn’t won shit either. I’ll take Dylan Harper in the Finals over him any day.