Why the Knicks should want a Karl-Anthony Towns extension sooner than later

Fucked long term.

Would he take a max for another 2 years? I think that’s our window anyways.

I see why both sides don’t want to let damn near 100M slide. If I’m Kay though , 250M take it or leave it.

They could play a bit of cap gymnastics with his player option to have the extension kick in later while still giving him his money.

Say he wants 250 for 4 years. Instead of needing to give him 62.5 a year, he picks up the 61m option. Now you only need to make the extension 189. He still gets 250m but the extension hits later for less money.

Oh. Wouldn’t he make less the following year then? I guess it’s more important to secure a max for longer due to injury risk?

yeah i agree i think hed decline it

That’s most contracts lmao

First answer is the Nets cause they have a ton of cap and I don’t think any extensions they need to worry about. He may not sign there, but they would offer. Depending what happens with Curry, the Warriors. Maybe the Clippers.

Warriors would

In two years when the cap is higher? Probably a couple of teams

Well, I dunno if we can call his defense elite, but he has shown that he can be a solid contributor to a defensive scheme with the right other pieces. And he’s a top 5 offensive player in his position. Maybe top 2.

He only faded scoring wise, his defense on Wemby was elite for the whole series. And even when not scoring he still had to be guarded at the perimeter

They dont beat the hawks if town’s isn’t there. Hawks rolled them until they started playing through KAT.

He defended really well and he was matched up against Wemby on the other end

He faded offensively because everything he did was a bs foul

If it’s his market value i.e. other teams are willing to pay him that to lure him away, it by definition isn’t an overpay.

He’s also being paid like a top 10 player now and is asking to be paid like a top 3 player and that’s just insane. Their offer values him as a top 20 player and top 5 center. That’s completely fair, not insulting.

He’s not worth the same as Jalen Duren and he got 200 million.

This is an incredibly misleading characterization of KAT’s natural playstyle, and it’s also just wrong because he’s put up big numbers on winning teams for years. Everything about your comment is bullshit.

This is where I’m at tbh. KAT is not a #1, never has been. That has been KAT’s main issue that has followed him his entire career.

But he feels disrespected if he isn’t offered #1 option money? Idk bout that lmaoo.

His “sacrifice” was necessary not just for the team, but for him individually. He was able to be in the right role suitable for him and it allowed everyone to thrive.

Yeah he sacrificed by playing winning basketball I guess? Basically the exact opposite of the attitude you want when you’re locking in a 31 year old to a long contract

Right, like he was actually given a bigger role, which is the exact opposite of what guys normally mean when they say that sacrificed. Maybe he didn’t want a bigger role and he considered doing it anyway a sacrifice?

His sacrifice is basically being the best player on the team, and the most impactful, while allowing the Knicks to market the shit out of Brunson and have everyone believe Brunson is the most important and best player on the team.

Yeah like, I totally agree that KAT has every right to try to get as much money as possible, but I don’t really see how he “sacrificed for the team” really, other than maybe the role he played (that allowed us to win the championship) isnt the role he wanted to play

I’m 100% with you here. Dude was the highest paid player on the team yet ran into foul trouble game after game during the Finals, just when Wemby was at his strongest, which then put the team down during the early game. He averaged only 13 points in the finals, 15.8 during the whole post-season. What is this sacrifice? Brunson sacrificed. KAT played like a third option.

Over his career he averaged 16 shot attempts/game. This season for the Knicks, it dropped to 13. And then 10 in the playoffs. Going from, at his peak, a 25 PPG scorer down to 16 in the playoffs willingly is a sacrifice both from a pride perspective (him always being the #1 option everywhere) and from a potential earnings perspective (people stat-watch, and him scoring less = him earning less).

He’s upset because he feels, as a player, he’s one of the best in the league and the Knicks are trying to pay him like he’s the 50th best player than in the 20s or teens.

He tried his hardest to tone the zest down and he is willing to take 275M now

Hell, KAT is paid like a top 10 player and is asking to be paid like a top 3 player when he’s not remotely close to that level. The contract they’re offering values him as a top 20 player and a top 5 center which is completely fair.

Don’t tell us about the 2nd apron…he’d be a Wolf for like if we weren’t fucked by the apron.

The players signed a CBA that did some things the owners wanted and some that the players wanted. The players got the definition of BRI greatly expanded to expand the pool of money they get a cut of. How is that an own goal? It’s how any CBA works.

Not really- I would personally not bet on age 32, 33, 34 KAT to have a great injury track record. Big boned 7 footers typically run into problems with that, at that age.

Dude will be toast in switches too

200 mill for his age 32-36 seasons as a 2nd/3rd option is not “insulting”.

Nah. He’s already overpaid and rather than massively overpaying they want to pay him appropriately. Currently, he’s paid like a top 10 player and the extension he wants would make him be paid like a top 3 player. That’s insane for someone who was only the ²⁄₃ option. The contract he’s being offered would still value him as a top 20 player and a top 5 center. That’s completely fair. I’m sure they’d be willing to go higher to something like ⁴⁄₂₂₀, but ⁴⁄₂₇₆ is simply not happening under the new CBA.

LOL no it’s not

Oh I agree the owners won’t want to budge. This will cause a lockout imo

Yeah but the players were to blinded by the potential supermax salaries to see how stupid agreeing to this was, they have a harder cap then even the nfl.

Yes for the league as a whole. He could get that max at a lower team for sure.

But I’ve yet to see how this doesn’t force the best players to take paycuts to actually compete for titles.

So KAT either gets his money hes truly deserving of but gets called a non-winner and just a bag chaser, or he leaves over 70 million on the table to continue competing.

He isn’t asking for the max though, he’s asking for somewhere between the max and getting paid less per year than he did last year

This isn’t Jalen Duren this is KAT, a guy closer to the 10th best player in the league than the 15th. If he can’t get the max the system is to tight

Knicks don’t even have KAT without the apron, the wolves traded him because of it.

Yup, this is what the league wants. They’re choosing parity over continuity. Teams will have to cycle through players including some of their bigger stars to play the cap game.

That movement creates news and drama which benefits the NBA, and as you pointed out, the parity increases league-wide engagement because more teams have a chance.

It’ll be interesting to see what it does in the long term for the next generation of superstars, since it’ll be hard to have dynasty-level teams built around a superstar who could be “face of the league” level.

The parity rules are not 8 years old though. Parity was already happening before

If a top 15 player isn’t max worthy the system is bad for the players

I agree but also his defensive decencies hurt us a lot on the other end, Brown is a better 2 way player and without Mitch or Gobert to cover for him this year we’re really going to see how Kat performs.

But again just because 1 player is overpaid doesn’t mean another should be

He took the most he could at the time. What he “left on the table” was only available to him if he waited until he was a free agent the following summer, which would have turned into a pumpkin if he had a serious injury.

This is the narrative they were hoping it would form

He didn’t tho. I hate how this misinformation spread like the plague

I thought Brunson decided to sign a deal a season early. This made his deal worth less overall but also gave him flexibility to sign another deal once this one is up and he is presumably still in his prime and can command the max. I believe his other option was to sign the max a season or two later but then have to sign another deal once he is in his mid 30s and potentially on the decline.

Again I’m just spitballing from memory so maybe I fudged the details. But the idea that Brunson took a massive pay cut directly so the Knicks could win seems misguided, it was definitely in his own long term financial interests as well.

Making assumption, he most assuredly got that in one way or another.

he didnt take an immediate maximum extension in order to wait for free agency to take a larger payout. it was short term “sacrifice” for bigger potential earning.

When was the last time a team won a chip without a great second option? So I think if you are competing for rings then you have to have a max level guy and somebody maxing near max if not max.

Also, KAT is arguably not even the 2nd option on the Knicks. There’s a good argument for OG.

The Knicks starting lineup is Brunson + 4 guys who maybe aren’t quite reliable enough to be the obvious No. 2, but on certain nights can perform like a clear No. 2. If at least one steps up into that role each night, it’s fine if the others have their off-nights.

Is it not? He’s a great shooter obviously but the reason why he’s so much better than the other shooting centers is because he’s got the complete package offensively. His ability to blow by wemby was huge in the finals.

He’ll still be good when he loses a step or two, but he’s not Channing Frye. His game very much utilizes his athleticism

From who though? Sacramento?

Two years ago no one was lining up to trade for Towns. He is not going to get much more than ⁴⁄₂₀₀ next off season going into his age 32 season.

i think KAT will be a pretty good offensive player in, say, 3 years still but not defensively. Very few bigs are currently worth maxes. I think both sides have an argument here, it’s possible that they meet in the middle somehwere but it’s also possible that the knicks just don’t think it’s worth it with the new CBA to lock someone up for >50 mil

No incentive to tank, seems like it wouldn’t be as punitive for really bad teams to do it and try and improve

Is he? He’s a big man and this contract will take him to 35. I’m skeptical that he will be good value for the money by the time it’s over.

The market value of all-star bags is relevant here. Duren was better in the regular season, is much younger, and was much worse in the postseason and got 40 million per year.

I don’t think KAT on the wrong side of his peak is worth 20 million per year more than an improving young Duren.

The 13 ppg is misleading. Dude had a very good game 1 and 2, and his role is invaluable especially against wemby. Before the Knicks series I wasn’t sure wemby would have a bad series against anyone. Okc for example probably has a better defense than the Knicks, but with Kat the Knicks beat the spurs in five and held wemby to subpar numbers on both ends. You simply don’t win a championship without him doing what he did to wemby. Period. The series and matchup that actually matters is the finals series and the matchup against wemby. If you don’t think another team would pay him a max to have a chance to beat the spurs, and get a top 20 guy that plays an absurdly valuable stretch five role, you’re insane. There’s teams in both conferences that would.

A stretch five who performed that good in the finals against wemby is. It’s not just top 20 guy, it’s the role he plays. Stretch fives are inherently more valuable than a random slashing wing or attack the rim pg. The role matters, not just the ranking.

That’s fine for the Knicks to say and it’s fine for KAT to see if another team values his game more than the Knicks on the open market

quality of life won’t change but I think it’s just human nature to not want to be paid less than your colleagues who are worse at their job than you

Like ²⁰⁰⁄₄ is less than what Trae Young makes for example

You could say the exact same thing about a literal billionaire owner. Would the owner’s quality of life change if he paid one of his most productive players in a generation 10 mil more a year?

Why is this always thrown at players like they are the only ones here who are wealthy? and compared to their owners, they have nothing - and could get hurt and lose that real quick. A billionaire can’t pay luxuary tax? alright, sell the team for 8 bil and you’ll be right back where you started.

It’s definitely an ego thing. these players take pride in how much they are paid compared to their peers. Especially with the amount of bad contracts that have been handed out, players look at those and say you want me to take less than HIM??

Anyway, this is all normal negotiation stuff. The knicks want the best deal for them, KAT and his agent want the best deal for them. Doesn’t really concern me and I still think they will reach an agreement.

It’s called the business of the NBA. We aren’t rich enough to understand it

You summarized his points perfectly. We recently saw it with Duren too and AD is in for a rude awakening if he thinks he can get the max being a part time player. Right off the top of my head the only players I’d entertain giving a super max right now are Luka, SGA, Jokic, Giannis and I’m on the fence about Ant.

Yep! If there was no max and players/teams were forced to negotiate actual market value, we wouldn’t have this mess IMO. It’s kind of like when you’re looking to buy a home and you get preapproved for like 750k. Well you can realistically only afford a 500k mortgage, but the bank approved you for 750k so that’s what you think you can actually afford.

I honestly don’t think KAT would get much more than 4y/200M on the open market tbh

They should make the bulk of the money. Lebron has generate billions for the league in his prime 120-150 million a year would have been fair. You need guys 8-15 to be paid sfa and they should nobody pays to see the bottom half of the roster

Which is as it should be IMO. Remove max contracts, institute a hard cap. None of this going over the cap bullshit. A cap is a cap, the maximum amount a team can spend. Then you also need a minimum threshold that says you must be within say 10% of the cap so owners can’t cheap out.

At that point, players can either demand to get paid what they’re actually worth, at the expense of being unable to build a competent team around them to win, or they take less so other players can get more. Either way, the hard cap should still be there. Yeah it sucks for role players, but it was always idiotic in the first place when you saw players like Mozgov getting those contracts IMO.

When you have a prohibitive salary cap like we do now, yes, there are only about 5 players in the league worth a max contract. Yes, I’m aware that MJ was making more than the cap. I’m not sure what the rules for going over the cap were at the time, but they obviously weren’t what they are now.

Removing the max contract allows you to play those 5ish players what they’re actually worth, at the expense of having no money remaining for the rest of the team.

It should be destroyed IMO. You shouldn’t have fringe starters making 20M/yr

Based on actual play on the court at this point in their careers, Jokic, Wemby, Shai, Luka, Brunson. Giannis was there, but he’s been hurt. You can argue Steph/Lebron as well since they’re both just larger than the sport and will still put butts in seats. Anyone else, nah.

He isn’t. The knicks are paying KAT, not the other way around. Hope that helps.

I sincerely hope for your sake that you’re not over the age of 14 because otherwise this is fucking embarrassing.

I was desperately searching for “/s” at the end of this essay, to no avail

Yep, usually when guys say they sacrificed it’s because they took a smaller role, but he was given even more responsibility. Maybe he’s /r/antiwork and considers the bigger role a sacrifice.

⁴⁄₂₀₀ and ⁵⁄₂₀₀ are not “the same kinda deal”. KAT is being offered 25% more than Duren. Trae being massively overpaid because Washington is stupid doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to massively overpay KAT too.

Bro it’s not the same deal as duren. That’s 4 year vs a 5 year contract

The duren contract is a year longer at the same overall amount. Karl would be paid more annually at 200 and the general consensus was 200 for duren was a bit of an overpay. The Trae young contract is also a bad comparison. It’s an overpay because the wizards had no other options

Oh I 100% think he deserves more than the \(200m, I just don’t think he’ll be worth the full \)276m. I personally would guess they agree at around the 4/$240m number.

Oh true… I think they need to spend 4 seasons with the team

They I would ever take a discount if I’m a player.

“Take less to keep the team together!”

“Ok but can we add a guarantee that I can stay on the team?”

“Hell no”

That would piss me off so bad lol

Beal’s NTC was dumb because they were already giving him the max. The Wizards screwed themselves in both capspace & flexibility with that contract.

KAT in this case will be taking a pretty large discount to get the NTC, which gives the Knicks a lot of cap relief in the first 2-3 years at least.

he took the 25% max and waived performance escalators (up to 30% with mvp/dpoy/1st team all nba in 26-27)

He could have got the 30% if he qualified for it this year, but chose not to.

Nobody needs more than $200 million hahaha

Then KAT should find a team willing to pay him $276M into his mid 30s as he declines.

Playing to win isn’t a sacrifice

Which is a stupid way to say he played the role needed of him to win and him playing in an increased role probably would’ve led to the Knicks losing.

Like congrats on playing winning basketball isn’t that your job ? If winning basketball looks like you being a high end role player and facilitator do you deserve the max ??????

He was the #2 guy regardless.

Fuck em let them pay some tax

>>He’s worth way more than what Jalen Duren got

He would be making considerably more than Duren. Duren’s contract is 200 mil over 5 years. Towns is 200 over 4 years so he’s open to sign another contract a year sooner and would be making the same in less time. I could see 220-230 but an average of 62 million a year (250) is pushing it imo (for the Knicks)

Brother you replied the same thing 3 times here and you were wrong every time. Duren’s contract is split in 5 years (instead of KAT’s 4) and he’s 8 years younger than KAT.

Their offer is literally 25% more than what Duren got because it’s ⁴⁄₂₀₀ rather than ⁵⁄₂₀₀.

Also it’s not like Duren is on the Knicks. The choice is paying KAT or having James Wiseman as your new starting center.

Cap went up & 2nd apron came down.

Duren got 5 years for 200m.

Ok go to Sacramento! I didn’t think so 😛

Towns is 31 in a month, zero athleticism. I would like to see more teams not offering max even if a player is eligble. Just like Detroit did.

²⁴⁰⁄₂₅₀ mil is what I see as well. asking someone to take a 75 mil pay cut is fucking crazy. Kat taking a ²⁰⁄₃₀ mil pay cut is about what you should reasonably expect from a top player. IF they were willing to take one not that they should

Brunson is our best player and team captain and has been underpaid his entire tenure with us save MAYBE his first year. It’s not an analogous situation