Yes, but also who thinks he pays them if they don’t win the championship? Feels like the perfect opportunity to “pivot”.

Nah this is just Leon being smart tbh. Hart has a 22m team option and KAT has a 61m player option next year, they’re both going to be picked up unless something crazy happens, so they have 2 full seasons with these guys, they just don’t have to rush.

By that point, KAT will be 32 and Hart will be 33 with a permanent finger brace, they’re not getting massive paydays from around the league (maybe Kings). Unless someone is actually putting 250m on the table for KAT then he’s not worth that, and I doubt anyone is tbh

Ironic.   He’s an idiot

Obligatory fuck Dolan. But you do understand that the second Apron effects the team more than just costing the owner money right? Like you said Dolan is A LOT of things but cheap isn’t one of them.

i wonder if it’s just because of the apron and how restrictive it is.

OMG is that Stan Kroenke?

you dumb fucks don’t understand the 2nd apron at all

The CBA was renegotiated since then. Does nobody understand this?

Ironically, now that he has a team worth spending on is exactly the time he has picked to start penny-pinching lol

There’s literally nothing ironic about it. He spent all of that money on massive contracts under completely different rules. If there were no second apron restrictions, KAT and Hart would have already been extended and on huge contracts to boot. It is crazy that your post has any upvotes when you’re essentially comparing contracts from 20 years ago to the current salary restrictions.

Its a bit different when youre paying a bunch of geezers vs guys in their prime.

When has this Nets ownership not shown a willingness to overspend lmao.

Nets would go over the second apron for this team 100%

Nets fans know firsthand about shitty ownership so I think they have a place in this conversation.

Or is it you just don’t like your little brother having a place in the conversation with you?

Here’s how you get away with that:

A. Trade him

B. Let him walk

or even obama getting one while obliterating libya. the peace prize has been kind of a joke for a long time

Or any us president really

Any perceived decrease in negativity towards James Dolan was absolutely because of the halo of the championship. He immediately soured it by existing and opening his mouth during the celebrations.

More hate!

More calls to sell the team! To his face!!!

I think Dolan legit believes he had more to do with winning that ring than the players and staff

Also sneaky about it. Later in the season? Like when Injuries start to crop up?

He’s waiting out Harts hand

I don’t understand, he’s been pretty generous handing out contracts left and right for the majority of past 3 decades. He has all kind of problems as an owner, but he’s never been known for being cheap. He’s doing this now after we won a championship?

when it’s really just him being cheap

Mind-boggling the number of people on r/nba who don’t seem to know anything about Dolan or the second apron. I hate Dolan’s guts but calling him cheap is literally insane. This hardball is 100% because of the second apron.

That’s the joke isn’t it

let’s not get crazy here chief

Please don’t give me hope.

Nobody defends Dolan lmao

No one in New York likes Dolan, which is why he was jealous of Mamdani getting love

We have enough reasons to hate Knicks fans without making stuff up

No one defends him. This is made up.

Who defends him, especially on this site?

What Knicks fan defend him? It’s like 95% against him.

Trust me, 90% + of us hate his guts

Every single mention of him and his bloodline is met with disdain. Idk where you are seeing anyone defending him.

Source?

barely tolerate

Knicks flairs denying it like reddit is the only website

Seriously, mfs be saying anything for some upvotes here I swear

What did you think of Duren negotiating the best possible deal for himself?

Definitely want to try to get a discount from KAT and not overpay Josh but…imo if they need to save salary the obvious move would be to trade Bridges? I value him the least of y’all top 4 guys; seems like getting a Wiggins for like \(17mil a year and saving like \)18mil is the least painful method. Not sure the exact numbers y’all need to duck the second apron the 2027-28 season but I trust my point is clear.

(I’m just using Wiggins as an example).

It absolutely is NOT normal negotiating. How many other teams did you see send Shams to tell the world they are stopping all the negotiations?

I just don’t understand why players like towns said they wanted to take a discount and now are pushing for 60+M

Especially if one of em joins a team that wins a chip in short order

True, players with championship pedigree always come at a premium.

Can’t blame the Knicks for negotiation but you do put yourself at risk. Plenty of teams can open space next year and KAT can basically demand out.

the Knicks or any other team in the NBA are not going under or under threat of going under

what a horrible terrible analogy

… you really think any NBA team is a ‘leaky roof with a shitty boss under threat of going under’?

Like I get you’re biased but jesus.

I wouldn’t even call the Suns that. And I think they are the worst run team in the league

People seem to be viewing it through the lens of “you won, just pay them and reward them for their success” but aren’t thinking about if you lock these guys up on 4 year contracts, sitting here in 2029 with a roster that is 32-34, with everyone under contract for another 3-5 years, with no way to get quality bench players, make any trades without dumping players for nothing, and you lose draft picks for the future.

Locking everyone up rolls the dice that the Knicks MIGHT be able to get it done this year, but then will not be a contender for the next decade. At least. You can’t look at a year where they had everyone healthy and got to play 2 inexperienced teams coming off 7 game series and then a young, inexperienced team in the finals while avoiding the Thunder or any real challengers in the East with multiple 20+ point comebacks and think running it back minus their very important backup Center they’re just going to wipe the floor with everyone again. And then somehow teams don’t get better next year?

The Knicks are going to ride out this year and assess how they’re performing. If they’re the clear favorites, you can justify paying to get them 1 more shot at it. If it’s injury-ridden or just not as easy because the East loaded up, why are you paying for like 5-6 more years of watching them become a shell of themselves?

Fans are riding high off a title right now, but what happens in 3-4 years when you keep backpedaling? Look at the Warriors. They loved 2022 and felt they had a chance in 2023, and now 4 years later it’s just sad and there’s talks about “get Curry some help” or trading players when all they have are old guys and young guys nobody wants. And they won FOUR after not winning for 50 years. New York fans might think they’re fine with 1 because they were bad for so long, but when KAT isn’t playing like he’s worth \(70M, that extension is going to get on their nerves and will want to trade him to get Brunson help. Except nobody is trading for 33 year old KAT with 4 years left on a \)275M deal.

From the viewpoint of a 1 year window, it makes sense to pay KAT. From the standpoint of Brunson is 30 and the Knicks should maximize the next 3 years until he starts regressing, you can’t afford to pay KAT that money. You could build out depth with 3 really quality players making that $70M combined and the Knicks would be a better team for it.

Running 5 guys for 82 games and heavy minutes in the playoffs works when they’re young. Doesn’t work when they’re on the wrong side of 30. I have no idea how we watched Thibs teams run players into the ground and not be successful and think the answer to the Knicks is pay 5 guys absurd amounts of money and surround them with garbage so you have to run those 5 guys into the ground because no one else is playable.

This is like someone that came into some money that never had it and they go and spend it all at once because they never had nice things and now they’re fucked again, rather than investing it in the future and trying to build something sustainable.

Teams with winning cultures like Boston and Miami invest in the long-term and that’s why they go from “what the fuck are they doing” to right back to being contenders every 4-5 years after a down period. New York doesn’t HAVE to go another 50 years without a title just because they won 1. But paying all these guys until they’re in their mid 30’s is certainly trying for that.

I doubt many people on here know how restrictive being in the second apron is.

I do have some faith in Leon and Brock Aller

I think most fans would agree that a player making real contributions to a title winning squad is literally the best possible reason to pay them out the wazoo, but the reality is you can’t do that with the second apron now unless your whole core is still on rookie deals, and even that only gets you a few years before you are forced to choose between tearing the roster apart or annihilating your ability to draft and trade for good players.

I’m not saying that the parity is a bad thing necessarily, but I do think we are starting to lose that element of NBA basketball where good teams spend years hammering away at each other. Now GMs have much smaller windows to build with. The moment you have some really good players on your team, the clock starts ticking down to extension time.

I wonder how long it takes for a ballsy GM to just start drafting a bunch of 22 year olds to try to align those cheap rookie deals with closer to prime years.

My guy, we won 1, that doesn’t mean the FO doesn’t wanna win more by destroying their cap flexibility. Just cause they won 1 doesn’t mean they should lose all their rationality

The irony here is that giving a 31 year old player a max extension for something he ALREADY DID is exactly how teams end up stuck with no chance to compete for a title in the future.

It sure is a “no brainer” - just not in the way that you mean :)

maxing a guy for more than he’s worth and killing all your flexibility for the next 4 years is also generally not great

do you honestly believe KAT is worth $69M/yr? that shit is NOT a no brainer. you can definitely still do it, but there are very real consequences to a huuuuge contract like that and you must be prepared to pay the roster building price if you want to give that guy that contract as a reward.

Teams can’t have 2 super max players in the age of the second apron. The Knicks have decided that Brunson is the played that receives it. KAT has also made 150m in his career more than Brunson already and they’re the same age.

Did you see the max that Kat would get? What team is going to give him that? He’s an all star talented but paying a player $70mil+ a year in their 30s is for superstars. Kat isn’t a superstar.

The nuggets are about to pay joker that contract and even with him the championship window is probably done forever becuase they can’t field a competitive team around that contract size

Bigs coming off the bench don’t get $70 million a year that’s a crazy comparison.

The very nature of the NBA is great teams will ALWAYS deserve to be paid more than they realistically CAN be paid given second apron limitations.

He’s arguably worth his 35% max now after that playoff run he had. Will he be worth that 2, 3, 4 and 5 years from now? Because that’s what they’re negotiating.

FYI, they are also negotiating with Josh Hart and Deuce McBride. Its also possible to overpay KAT for his future seasons, as good as he was these playoffs…

I think going into the second apron is the right move, but the Knicks also have to try and get the number as low as possible which they’re doing.

It’s just how much do you risk alienating  KAT and hart during the year to do it.

It would be stupid of them to give up leverage in either direction. Can’t just shout to everyone the 2nd apron and picks dont matter, because opposing parties will pick your pocket in negotiations (see the Suns in multiple instances over the Ishbia era). Cant also say you’ll NEVER go over the second apron (the Thunder would be massive fools to not do it for at least 2 years with this core) and then really never do it. Teams would take advantage of that weakness and snipe your players/siphon picks from you (see the Nuggets myriad salary saving moves). I trust the Knicks enough to at least do this dance.

No the fuck we don’t

This is cope.

Hart is the one where if he loses ¹⁄₂ a step he loses a ton of value. I can see them not resigning him.

He’s not resigning

That’s not how this works. GMs aren’t stupid, they can differentiate between a player playing bad because they’re angry versus a player playing bad because they’re actually bad. KAT will command a big contract no matter how he plays this year.

KAT will get a max deal no matter what he does this year.

And given teams can offer him quite a bit more next year than what he is asking now (and Nolan refuses to pay) he is almost certainly gone.

It’s definitely happening around the trade deadline

I think we’re saying the same thing? The trade deadline is the playoff push its all synonymous

Making this statement is almost certainly worse if you want to repeat