Giannis: “I wasn’t a top pick. I wasn’t Rookie of the Year. But I’ll tell you one thing, I’m top 20 of all time. I’m gonna get top 10.”
I agree with him, all around ability he is probably top 20.
I don’t think there’s enough time left in his career for him to be top 10, but we will see.
2 more rings and 2 more mvps puts him around 10
Yup.
I don’t think he’ll do it, but if it happens he’s got an argument.
I think 1 more ring and MVP gives him a bottom of top 20 case. Kind of like a Dirk level.
I think he’s going to be guaranteed above dirk already, because all he’s missing compared to dirk is counting stats. So either dirk has been overrated or Giannis is being underrated
And when I say counting stats I’m talking about longevity stats. career totals. Accolades wise he cleared dirk a while ago
and 5 rings and 5 MVPs puts Kyle Kuzma in the goat conversation, but that’s not happening either
This is an unfair comparison lol. Giannis has actually gotten a ring and MVPs, it’s extremely disingenuous to compare to kuzma..
I lold but Giannis has that chance even if it’s quite low, unlike Kuzma which is impossible²
he’s a perennial mvp candidate and who knows what they put together in miami, they got Jimmy G Buckets to two finals with a box of scraps
terrible example
I would be equally surprised at both of those things happening
I don’t even think that put kuz in the conversation
This is the stupidest fucking comment I’ve read all day congrats
I mean 4 mvps would probably put him higher. Theres only 5 people with that or more
With the rings to go along with it, for sure. Outside of that, don’t think the MVPs alone are enough to carry past guys usually in consideration for the 8-12 spot like Curry, Kobe, Shaq, Duncan, etc.
It gets so hard after top 3. After Jordan, LeBron, Kareem (pick your order) it gets muddy.
crazy how much one of a kind talent we’ve seen in this league when i know all of those guys get argued for top 5 but i can’t be mad at you putting them 8-12. i disagree a little bit (mainly duncan i think is solidly top 8, but the other 3 you nailed at where their tier is) but can’t be mad at it.
Two more MVPs would put him at four total which is behind only Kareem, Jordan, Russell and even with Lebron and Wilt. I don’t think even two is particularly likely, but it’s really hard to argue that wouldn’t make him a top 10 player all time.
Edited because i miscounted Lebrons
LeBron only has four, but your point still stands.
No chance he gets both of those at this point but yeah, that’d do it.
Even if he does, considering Curry barely makes it replacing Kobe, and Hakeem is not even there maybe, depending on who you ask, Giannis definitely won’t.
Yeah, there’s a logjam of players from 8-12 with Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Curry, and Hakeem in no particular order. At 13⁄14 you’ve got Oscar and KD. Getting up to 13 is doable, but even getting into the logjam is going to be difficult and that’s still not exactly a top 10 lock. The next group up is the tie of Magic and Bird at 6⁄7 and they each have 3x MVP and 3+ titles which is completely unattainable in the current NBA.
Curry is not just “barely” making it lol
Probably but I’d say even one more MVP OR one more title as the best player on a team are both very unlikely at his age and his injury issues.
That is going to be exceptionally hard given his current age and team around him. Even one MVP or title seems highly unlikely from here
Yep, at the same age Giannis is now, Tim Duncan had already won four titles while Hakeem had just won the first of two
But that would make it and even bigger accomplishment and a better case for Top 10.
Ok but that’s not happening lol
Except if it did, it’s would be phenomenal and put him top 10
Correct.
Sure, but you can throw hypothetical MVPs and rings in a lot of players and move them into the top 10
2 more rings is realistic. 2 more mvps i think is out of the question
You can say that for so many players though.
Assuming a player also wins FMVP in both rings, 2 MVP’s + 2 FMVP’s alone is a strong foundation for a top 10 resume.
Only 6 players – 7 if you add Bill Russell who played before FMVPs were awarded – have won 2+ FMVP and 2+ MVP: MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, and Duncan. Even the other top 10ish guys like Steph, Shaq, Kobe, Wilt, and Hakeem don’t.
So having multiple FMVPs and MVPs is an extremely exclusive club, and attaining that puts you alongside the arguable top 7 players of all time.
Wilt also would’ve had the 1967 FMVP (if they awarded it to the winning team, if they went the 1969 route Rick Barry probably gets it)
That’s a lot to ask of a guy near the end of his prime.
That’s just his first Prime. If he plays another 15 years he may crack the top 10 with the other Kobe, MJ, and 8 different stages of Lebron James career
wtf does prime mean anymore. LeBron took 7 seasons to win a chip, went to 8 straight finals then after a few in la got another ring and is still going
so far he’s been by far the best player on every team he’s been on. if he ever gets to be part of a solid roster with a young superstar he could def add to his ring collection
Who on earth do you have above him with 4 MVPs and 3 rings?
I don’t know, he’ll be up there with the greats but the longer NBA goes on for the higher the bar is set. With what you said he’ll be up there with the likes of Hakeem/David Robinson or more recently Kawhi and KD but still has a lot to prove.
2 rings with 2fmvl would be enough tbh.
2 more rings and 2 more mvps puts him top 5.
A back to back puts him in the 10s.
He’d need more than that to pass Steph and Steph is very barely in Top 10 for a lot of people.
If he gets 1 more of either I’ll be surprised
Both very possible. Gonna be a joy to watch.
Has anyone ever won an mvp 8 years apart?
No, the biggest gap between MVPs is Wilt. Won in 1960 then next in 1966
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_Most_Valuable_Player
I haven’t but not sure about anybody else
Kareem won his two final mvps about 14-15 years apart. I know it’s not the same thing but the gap is crazy
Jordan right, maybe kareem? Lebron definitely should have but didnt
very possible? In what universe?
Mine.
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Top 10 gambling ambassador athletes for sure
There are probably 30 people who are top 20. And it is so difficult to compare across eras.
Giannis has an argument, but you will find him inside top 20 in a few peoples list, and outside top 20 in others.
And I think Giannis is at 13 years experience, it takes a fair amount of health, longevity of excellence and some personal and team success to get him mentioned in the same breath as the 15 people who are top 10 (/tic)
You can’t say never given you have LBJ’s fuckery, but it is really really hard to have that kind of long excellence. Giannis’s game depends on physicality and he has had issues staying healthy, to the point of missing the 65 games bar ..
Agree. Now he’s top 25-30
If he’s so good why only 1 title? Why be a gambling sponsor if you are top 10 all time? Dude can think he’s top 10 in his head but his prime is already over
If he can somehow knock out and abduct LeBron and use him as a blood boy it could work
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People are being very weird about Giannis having confidence.
Reddit gets extremely weird any time anyone shows confidence.
I think what makes it even worse is the NBA communities (both the media and fans) obsession with rankings. It’s such a pointless, obnoxious debate that only leads to people discrediting the legacies of others to boost someone else. It’s not enough to just acknowledge the greats without attaching a number and/or asterisk to their name.
100%. It’s my biggest NBA pet peeve.
0% chance its a top 2 pet peeve. You’re an idiot
I mean tbf he did kind of just rank himself which invites this kind of discussion
It’s not just the media and fans. Gianiss literally feeding into it
Reddit is a hive of contrarians and people looking for a debate. Statements made in confidence are easy targets.
No they’re not
Every time people are critical when a basketball player hypes himself up or displays confidence. Nearly every basketball player does this. They would not be successful if they were not confident in their abilities, also it seems to be part of their motivation. If you are already a millionaire set for life for playing basketball, another contract might not motivate you, so you use your legacy and essentially career goals to do it, it makes sense.
Do they think people should hate themselves? It doesn’t make sense lol
Not confidence, its more akin to Arrogance or Cockiness.
Which shows that most redditors havent been in a locker room before..
Giannis is an NBA champ, 10x all star, 7x all nba first team, DPoY, 5x All Defensive team, 2x MVP, NBA finals MVP. Idk who else’s resume looks like that except Lebron, KD, and Curry. And those 3 are 7+ years older than him. I mean, the fact that his closest comparisons in terms of accolades are those 3 says a lot for his confidence.
Jokic is up there. He doesn’t have the defensive awards of course but
8x All-star, 6x First team, 3x MVP, Finals MVP. 2 years averaging a triple double on 67% TS which I dont think will ever happen again.
I think the last 4 Jokic years (27⁄12.5⁄10 on 59/39/82 shooting with a +19.2 !!! on/off swing) are the equivalent of a DPOY in terms of weight. its like OPOY for the NFL
Both guys are top 10-20 all time if they retired tomorrow
you can argue whether he deserved finals mvp or not, but kd does
thats reddit. they hate what they dont have
Idk about that, porn subs seen to be thriving
A lot of frequent porn watchers hate women, though.
Those are the ones secretly watching for the dong, they just don’t realize it yet. The kind of dudes who complain when the male porn stars dick isn’t big enough.
They hate us cuz they anus.
Seriously, I love the posts that imply, “he is objectively a top 25 player but not a top 20.” lol
Going down the Bill Simmons, “he’s a top 6-13” route, lol .
REeEeEEEeE
My scientifically backed, objective all time list has him 23rd all time. How dare he call himself top 20!
Actually it seems he’s confident but not cocky if you know what i mean. He looks very down to earth.
And this statement isn’t cocky at all, it’s actually quite conservative. He objectively IS top 20 All-Time. He could even claim top 15 (probably isn’t, but you could make a case) and it wouldn’t be outrageous.
This sub has been weird about Gianni for years. To be fair, this sub is full of weird people
Cause dude used to be so humble. Giannis changed
He even disagreed with someone in the video who said he is already top 10.
So he was being humble, if anything, but setting a goal to aspire to.
Because it’s a ridiculous claim, on top of all of his other negative qualities.
It’s a negative quality to believe in yourself? Maybe you need to see a therapist to question why you’re projecting your own insecurities.
Nope, I didn’t say that.
Very good overall message that is naturally being eschewed by top 20 debates
Not to mention he only said he would get top 10 after someone said he was already there.
Exactly lol
I just think it’s fun to rank players (not in a hostile argument though). I have 0 issue with him calling himself top 20 even if I disagree. He is definitely in the conversation.
I was thinking the same thing?
It’s funny, if you look at players with 2 MVPs and a ring, there’s only 14 players: https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/nba-players-with-2-mvps-and-one-championship
There are definitely some people not on this list I would put over Giannis (Shaq and Kobe for instance) but he’s got a great Top 20 case imo (especially with the DPOY)
He won’t get to top 10. But top 20 is totally reasonable and top 25 is for sure.
If he can get one more mvp and maybe 1-2more chips (which I don’t think he can), he could maybe get into top 10
I don’t think he gets anymore accolades outside of all-nba/all-star selections from this point forward.
How dare you besmirch his future October Player of the Month
Giannis’ career is caught between, but I do wonder if the younger players’ stature all time will be hurt by the current rules to encourage parity in the league
Ring culture is stupid regardless, and maybe this will get people not to focus on them as much, if it becomes harder to build and maintain great teams
Championships in general should be weighed differently by era, so I agree. Guys like Jokic and Giannis feel like they should have 2 for how good their cores were, but that’s just not how it went.
It’s so fascinating how people have no problems with adjusting rings for era when they’re comparing Russell to Jordan, but they throw a hissy fit if you mention adjusting for era for Jordan compared to today, when the NBA is explicitly stating they want to push for as much parity as possible.
Jokic had one of the softest runs ever lmao
Exactly
11
6
5
4
The number is falling with every generation
Giannis is definitely one of the top 25 players all time. I’m not certain he’s in the top 20. And I’m sure he’s not in the top 15. He has a long way to go to get in the top 10.
He’d have to past guys like Kobe, Duncan, or Hakeem to get top 10. Im a longtime giannis fan but that’s not happening
IMO the #8-12 slots are Steph, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Wilt in some order (with the top 7 being MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Russell, Duncan).
Giannis has to first enter that #8-12 tier of player to even have an argument for top 10.
This is a perfect list of the 12 best players ever. Aside from order potentially, no notes
Wow this is exactly my top 12 list! I usually just have top 10, but Kobe and Hakeem are typically the next names on my list
Why is Shaq so low for you?
“Giannis has to first enter that #8-12 tier of player to even have an argument for top 10.”
Very insightful thank you
You don’t have Duncan in top 10?
Pretty sure he means the edge of the top 10 players are duncan kobe hakeem
Better question is why is Duncan on the edge of top ten?
Who the fuck are these people that have Kobe top 10? Are you out of your mind? Curry, Duncan and Hakeem are all 100% ahead of Kobe on any serious ranking. That’s absurd
He does, but to get top 10 he’d have to knock one of them out/pass them. He’s not doing that
Duncan is rated lower because his style of play doesn’t make for good highlights when you look back. But he was so damn good
Duncan has been rated pretty fkn high in this sub and generally on the internet basketball communities.
I think he’s saying he is in the top ten. The more shocking things is you are flabbergasted about Duncan not in top ten but not Kobe or Hakeem. Reddit be weird
Duncan is closer to top five while Hakeem and Kobe are closer to ten
Duncan was easily a better player than Kobe, he was the best player on 4 of his 5 championships (it was a joke Parker won finals MVP in 07, like Iguodala in 15) just because his game wasn’t as flashy doesn’t mean he wasn’t better. Hakeem “only” won two rings & only made it to the finals once more. Can’t put him over Duncan either.
Duncan >>>>>> Kobe
He’d have to clear guys like Steph and Jokic. Giannis is good but I doubt he’s that good.
Giannis vs Jokic all-time is closer than you think. Steph clears both
Steph is way above Jokic all time
… the disrespect Steph continues to get on all time rankings is hilarious.
He does clear jokic.
More All-NBA selects (first team and total). More all-defense selections. More allstar appearances. A defensive player of the year. Jokic has one more MVP.
one more mvp… he was top 2 in mvp voting for 6 straight years and arguably could have won all of them. giannis is brilliant but he’s not jokic level, especially considering how groundbreaking jokic offense has been. he might be the greatest offensive player of all time.
He did have a Hakeem like season once, what would he need to surpass him?
better than Kobe
He’s closer to 15 than he is 25 imo. Hes one of the few guys with MVPs and dpoys
sure, but his defense hasn’t really been on the level of most other dpoys. dude can be a great defender for sure, but having another dpoy level rim protector next to him and a dpoy level guard made his job pretty damn easy
no hate for giannis, but just counting accolades is the worst level of basketball talk
He’s the reason why that DPOY rim protector can stay on the court though. Every single postseason Bucks end up limiting Brook Lopez because he can’t handle playoff offenses
?? i’m not following this at all or how this has anything to do with how good of a defender giannis is/was and how big his role has been on that end
brook opens up the offense for giannis too, and giannis has plenty of share of playoff struggles
dpoy level rim protectors keep themselves on the court just fine. did giannis play at a dpoy level when brook was on the bench every single one of these postseasons?
Giannis might be the greatest help defender of all time. His defense during his prime was amazing.
Marcus Smart has a DPotY, that award is hella devalued.
This is like saying MVP is devalued because Derrick Rose has one
True Joakim Noah was robbed
Smart was one of the best perimeter defenders of his generation.
And yet he wasn’t even the DPotY of the Celtics that year, which would’ve been Horford or RW3 depending on how you measure.
i think alot of people are going to wrestle with the fact that many generational 2010s+ players will make their way to the top 20.
The talent and sheer skill of today’s NBA is unmatched. Basketball grows and will continue to get better and better.
We might need to stop calling players generational if there are many generational players in a single decade
an average NBA career is about 5 years, and i’d be willing to give up to 2 players per generation that label, so you could make a case for there being a max of 4 generational players per decade. i’d disagree with you but i wouldn’t fight you on it. anything more than 4 per decade i’d absolutely fight someone on.
That’s fair enough. As long as it’s not just some amorphous “many” and then defending it by saying that words can mean whatever we want them to mean.
the 2010s was the generation of miracles
Yup. Recency bias.
Generational to me means these are the players that stand above the rest of the crop and represent the talent of that specific era/generation.
You are free to have your own definition but we might need to stop acting like everyone else’s opinion is wrong because you have your own version of what’s right.
Why stop there? Just anyone within a “generation” should be “generational.” That’s how I choose to define it now. And I can define “generation” however I want to too!
The only top 20 players right now are LeBron and jokic and steph
kd is absolutely top 15 lol
No
already in the top 20 if they retired today:
- Lebron
- Steph
- KD
- Jokic
- Giannis
Likely to make the top 20 before they retire:
- Luka
- Wemby
- SGA
Maybe:
- Kawhi
- Harden (probably not)
- Anthony Davis (probably not)
I don’t think people realize how crowded these lists get. This leaves almost no room for Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Dirk, Dr. J, Moses, Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, John Havlicek, Wade, or Bill Walton.
Got brain damage from reading this
Jokic isn’t top 20 be serious
Are we still pretending SGA isn’t blatantly top 20? Curious how many players you think there are with multiple MVPs and a FMVP.
I guess we are lmao. Y’all are so casual.
Sga isn’t top 50. Get that flopper out of here.
KD and CP3 are arguably top 20. Maybe just outside, though.
Don’t agree. There’s too many legends that still deserve top 20 spot. KD prob top 25 and cp3 ain’t in the list
Not saying Giannis is not top 20, but would that make Kawhi top 20 also? what about KD? thos last few spots
KD and CP3 both are in the top 25. Kawhi has a high peak, but his lack of durability and playing time take away from his overall ranking.
I have him as #15 all time. why are you so sure?
Who do you have as 16-20?
Hakeem, David Robinson, Bob Pettit, Curry, Oscar. in that order
How do you justify putting Giannis ahead of Hakeem and Curry? The others are at least arguable, but those I don’t get.
He’s closer to the top 15 than most people realize. He’s one of the most dominant players ever.
He absolutely is in the high teens, man. Let’s be real.
He’s easily top 20
He’s closer to 15 than 25, he’s had a great argument for top 20 for awhile now. Once you move past the top 12ish, you get the single ring MVP guys and then the no ring MVP guys. he’s right in there.
I don’t think you can name 20 players better than him.
MJ Bron Curry Wilt Russell Bird Magic Duncan Kobe Kareem Hakeem Shaq KD KG Jokic Dirk West Moses Dr.J Wade?
Edit: I love Giannis, I just wanted to show how debatable top 20 is. He is close, but it isn’t 100% (yet?)
I think he has arguments on a similar level to KG, KD, Dirk, etc.
Better than Dirk, West, and Wade to me
Dirk, KG and Wade are not better than Giannis. Lol. Giannis is 2nd all time PF, so he’s automatically better than Dirk and KG
It is true that he is Top 20, Top 10 will be difficult, but Top 20 is for certain. People who doubt that are just old heads.
You smokin that good shit…lol He is not better than wade, or Dirk. Maybe KG when it’s all said and done.
- Dirk had arguably the toughest road to a championship in nba history.
- wade has 3 chips
- Garnet Played 21 years…
KG is the only one you can make an argument for…but if GA only gets 1 chip he’ll be considered a disappointment.
Wild to me that people think he’s not there with KG, Dirk, Dr J. Just feels like people who cant understand how a great career plays out.
Yes you can fairly easily, NBA is full of talent, he’s top 50 though.
Giannis has an immense amount of achievements only he and a few others have ever achieved. On top of a long career, top 50 is insulting my guy…
There’s not even 50 mvps.
How many most valuable penises are there?
I don’t think it’s insulting at all, he has 1 ring.
Calling Giannis only top 50 is disrespectful. He has 9 All NBA selections, 2 MVPs, a DPOY and a ring. He’s top 20
Top 10 requires 3 rings to be in the convo unless you have wilt numbers
Hakeem is top 10.
Talk to em Shablagoo
yeah but he won 2 in an era where jordan won 6
Giannis played in an era with LeBron and the KD Warriors.
And he spent most of his career in one of the smaller, less desirable markets. There’s a reason they hadn’t won a championship in about 50 years.
How many times did he face Jordan in the playoffs?
they played in different conferences, and jordan took a year off. it’s like asking why kobe and lebron never played each other in the playoffs. in the regular season when they did play MJ has a losing record 10-13 to him
Hakeem is better than Giannis
Magic, Bird, Kareem, Lebron, MJ, Wild, Russell, Duncan in some order are all over Hakeem.
Then you have Kobe and Shaq, which I think are over him and that is 10 right there, its tough to have hakeem over those two.
Now add Curry, Oscar, West, which could be argued.
Oscar and West both have 1 Ring only.
It’s fairly easy to have Hakeem over Kobe. More league MVPs, tied for finals MVPs, and arguably the best defender ever at his position. Kobe has 3 additional championships because he played with the best player in the league at the time, and I personally believe Hakeem would have more championships if he played with the best player in his era also.
Oh , I did not know we were playing the “what if” game.
Kobe in no world is over Hakeem
Im not the biggest Kobe fan but ya he probably is.
I agree with everything you said except Kobe, Oscar and West. I would also take Shaq over Hakeem. Obviously the lists are subjective, but the 9-12 spots are pretty much dealer choice IMO, so I dont think your take is wrong, I just dont agree. I also have a few other players in the mix. 10 people, 12 opinions as they say lol
shaq over hakeem? crazy talk. Hakeem has a better game, played defense, could shoot f/t’s, and then there’s his two chips. I love shaq but he didn’t do shit on his own. Hakeem’s 2 chips are better than all of shaq’s.
I don’t even rank wilt and bill Russell. Way too separated from modern nba. Hakeem is definitely over Oscar and Jerry west, and curry is 100% top 10 all time
Wilt literally played against Kareem. Kareem played against Olajuwon. Russell played against Wilt his whole career. They weren’t that far apart.
There’s no way anyone has Kobe over Curry. Shaq over Curry is debatable, but I’m still taking Curry.
Eh hakeem can be over bird shaq (who he beat) pretty easily imo. Curry oscar west kobe imo are all fair arguments. Frankly even shaq and bird have arguments to be over him. Really this is why having tiers is better than a straight list as zeke is also in this tier imo.
Shaq is def over Hakeem
What is wrong with this sub lol
Hakeem was supremely talented and introduced a level of footwork that had not previously been observed in the court on a big man
Shaq was a damn force of nature, shaq on the fast break in orlando was a Mack truck moving at 70 mph
Shaq on the Lakers was a dancing polar bear in the paint
Kareem should be the only big positioned above shaq
And I say this absolutely hating how much bullshit Shaq has done outside of the court during and beyond his playing years
maybe, always tough to order the 8-12 range
My top 10 gatekeeper, now and forever.
Nah, 2 rings is sufficient for Top 10. You mentioned Wilt, but Dream too and Bron made it when he went back to back with the Heat.
LeBron was top 10 between his 2nd and 3rd ring imo
Hakeem and Oscar are up there, too. At least in the conversation.
Or do you think Oscar had Wilt numbers? Definitely some eye-popping stats, but Wilt is statistically almost on a level of his own.
ring culture in 2026
why
who said it requires that
I mean, why not. He is probably top 17-20 rn just imo. He needs to play more playoff games though, only 8 games in the last 3 yrs and no notable playoff perf outside of that 1 yr he won a ring.
He and Jokic basically has the same level of success/achievement and both of them are 31+ now. Being near 7’ tall i also dont expect them to play at their peak in the next 5 yrs.
They still can get to top 10 but they better start winning more now.
Yeah i mean no shame for not hitting top 10. Cant think of his age rn but hed have to go on a wild streak with back to back final appearances. Just so much talent all time. Top 20 in EVERYONE’S book would be just as impressive. Cant wait to see him and bam
Age wise unfortunately he’s probably not getting top 10 accolades. But peak talent he is absolutely top 10.
Out of all of the top players I feel giannis has one of the weakest teams. Middleton and giannis played out of their minds in that finals run. After middletons injury they just sucked. Lillard and giannis was disappointing unfortunately
He is unbelievable the year after in the series against the Celtics when Middleton is hurt. Plays out of his goddamn mind and averages 34/15/7 across seven games.
MJ, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, BirdDuncan, Shaq, Curry, Kobe, RussellHakeem, Wilt, West, Garnett, NowitzkiK. Malone, Robertson, Jokic, Baylor, Durant, Barkley
Honestly yeah he might be, it’s very close
I have him and Jokic right around that Dirk spot.
I have both just over Dirk. Love Dirk but Jokic and Gianni’s are legit monsters.
This is correct imo. When you’re getting into the 15-22 range it’s pretty much what does the person ranking prefer but I have Giannis just above as well.
Definitely Jokic over Dirk but not convinced on Giannis yet.
I have Giannis over Dirk but I’m curious what you think is keeping him from getting there. Like would another 2 All-NBA first teams put him over?
Dirk over Giannis for me
Id put Jokic over Dirk, but Dirk over Giannis. But its close ngl. Basically splitting hairs on who revolutionized the game more.
Giannis is over Dirk
Giannis has more MVPs, DPOY, MIP, and scoring. Probably passes Dirk on most legacy stats if he plays another 5-6 years.
Honestly I don’t see either of them as revolutionary players. Dirk played a style only he could play and Giannis is one of the all time physical freaks. You can’t really replicate either game lol.
Jokic is more revolutionary than both imo. All top 20 guys regardless.
They’re above Dirk just on accolades.
Dirk’s one ring continues to carry his legacy
I’m willing to just erase Karl Malone and give it Giannis
I’ve talked to everyone and we are in agreement. It’s settled r/nba
Everybody clapped
Agreed. There’s a lot of debate regarding Karl Malone being top 15, even more so with top 13. To learn more, Google “Karl Malone 13 controversy”.
She was 12 when he raped her. 13 when she had the baby
I understand where you’re coming from, because fuck that creep, but Malone was insanely good. I’d still put Giannis above him
This is the way
I hope is for basketball reasons , personal/legal reasons shouldn’t be included in this conversation, even though he should probably have to been in Jail. He could be A serial killer but this ranking it’s about basketball ( I think Giannis is better too btw)
Genuinely wished the NBA would vacate all of Malone’s accomplishments and remove him from any leaderboards he’s on. He’s a piece of shit pedo rapist
Why? He could be president with that resume!
Unfortunately if we erased everyone who’s a piece of shit from the history books there’d be about 4 players in NBA history. And that’s if we’re being generous
Ok let’s settle for removing the pedo rapists. Is that too much to ask?
I second this motion
i’m not, karl malone redeemed himself
Why would Malone even be in the convo anyway lol
obviously hes not better than Giannis
His resume is better than at least 3 people on that list
Which he needs it to be because those are 21 names
You only need to take away 2 for him to be top 20.
Although the list is debatable.
Frankly, his resume needs to be significantly better than the people on the list.
Otherwise, you’re punishing them for playing in a more difficult era and rewarding Giannis for playing in a much weaker era.
I’m not ranking Giannis ahead of Karl Malone because Karl Malone failed twice against Michael Jordan while Giannis succeeded against an injured, 35 year old Chris Paul.
Ill never understand how NBA is the one sport where old heads think its gotten easier. Records are routinely broken in all sports, all sports seemingly progress as a whole, the talent pool deepens just by virtue of global population and sport popularity– but somehow the NBA was more difficult in the past… rules may change, but players adapt to whatever rules and circumstances are present. I dont think playing against lesser talent should be held against older players either, but come on lol..
Ill never understand how NBA is the one sport where old heads think its gotten easier.
This era is easier because of a distinct lack of elite talent.
The average player today is much better than the average player 30 years ago.
The top 10 players 30 years ago are collectively much better than the collective top 10 players today.
Crazy lmao. Way more parity in 2021 than in 1995.
Rank him above Malone for the ring, the two MVPs, the FMVP, the DPOY, the MIP. He carried a worse team and never played with anyone like Stockton.
All Malone has is volume stats.
Yes, “parity” means it’s easier to win a title.
Rank him above Malone for the ring, the two MVPs, the FMVP, the DPOY, the MIP.
So you’re punishing Malone for facing Michael Jordan and rewarding Giannis for facing a 35 year old Chris Paul?
Makes sense.
He carried a worse team and never played with anyone like Stockton.
Good grief. The Bucks were stacked. They had Middleton, Holiday, and several high-end role players.
Don’t forget that the Bucks won both playoff games that Giannis missed.
More
The only players that I have comfortable ahead of Giannis are lbj,mj,Kobe,Russel,Duncan,curry,bird,magic, Kareem,Shaq, m Malone,erving,wilt and probably kd(not as legendary as the resume suggest but I can’t ignore his consistency and j don’t mind if people have jokic and Giannis above him) after that I think the jokic and Giannis are on the same tier
Kind of hard not to have him above Garnett and Nowitzki, he played the same position and he’s better. I think he’s easily above Barkley, and he’s above Malone because WE all hate Karl Malone.
Wouldn’t put him over Dirk
2 MVPs a DPOY and a FMVP why not
Because nostalgia plot armor
Has Giannis won a 3 pt competition at the all star game? Sit down then.
How not. Accolades wise, Giannis wins. stats wise, giannis wins. Giannis is a better defender and it’s not close. Rebounding, again Giannis not close. Offence wise I think giannis is better personally, but I can see an argument if you value completeness. Dirk was a more complete scorer, but Giannis is a better play maker, more efficient, and when it comes down to it simply scores more. Iconic moments goes to Dirk no doubt, imo the most iconic moment in nba history besides the 3-1 comeback. But Giannis is no slouch there either. He has the block on Ayton, which is one of the best defensive moments in the playoffs ever, and for my money the literal best playoff performance by a single player ever (Game Six, came back down 0-2 to win four in a row) where he put up 50/14/2 with 5 blocks on 75% Ts. Not to mention the fact for that whole finals he averaged 35/13/5, which is ridiculous in itself (just for reference MJ has 6 total finals games above 40 points, Lebron has 8,Giannis had 3 in that series alone). I love Dirk, I mean he’s one of the reasons I started to watch basketball, but other than nostalgia I really can’t see a good faith argument for him being better.
That Game Six was legendary. It’s very rare to be watching a game and just know we’re gonna be talking about it in 40 years. It was just that dominant on top of coming back from a knee injury that should’ve had him out for weeks. That hyper extension was fucking nasty. I have no idea how he came back an played that well. He shot ridiculously from the line too. 17⁄19 for a guy who shoots 62% in the post season. Plus giving the team that drafted him their first championship.
There are occasionally moments when you can feel a guy elevate and cement himself clearly as an all-time great. And Giannis basically sealed the deal that closeout game (barring some crazy catastrophic injury).
The definition of a legendary game.
But Giannis is no slouch there either. He has the block on Ayton, which is one of the best defensive moments in the playoffs ever, and for my money the literal best playoff performance by a single player ever (Game Six, came back down 0-2 to win four in a row) where he put up 50/14/2 with 5 blocks on 75% Ts.
Overall I have Giannis > Dirk as well but this is just ridiculous, you’re massively overselling that series. The Bucks had no business going down 0-2 to a team with no top 10 player and a 3rd year center as their Giannis defender. Actually, the Suns had no business being in the finals in the first place because they cakewalked three injured opponents to get there.
Comparing that to Dirk’s 2011 run is just insulting. Dirk beat the one of the three best teams ever assembled with a lightweight supporting cast. Giannis beat the Phoenix Sons with two All-Stars and a version of Brook Lopez that was arguably better than his All-Star self.
How many finals appearances for Giannis?
If Giannis can manage to string together a 20+ year career we can talk.
Giannis is ahead of Dirk without question.
Defense exists.
Garnett was better than Dirk, so can’t put him over Garnett then either.
Dirks finals run is just legendary. Beating the LeBron, Wade and bosh in their prime is insane work.
No he wasn’t lol. Garnett was 100% a better defensive player tho
Feels like when Giannis rounds out his career as is he’s already on par with Garnett. All Garnett has over him is better defensive intensity or …aura.
Garnett couldn’t hard carry like Dirk did
Putting giannis above dirk is insane
nah giannis is clearly better, 2 mvps to 1 mvp, dpoy to no dpoy, giannis has way better stats and volume, more complete bc he can defend too.
Facts i agree def not over dirk
He’s better on both ends by a pretty solid margin.
I’d take him over dirk he’s better in every aspect, accolade not counting shooting
I have KG and Dirk above Durant atp and its hard to have Giannis behind any of those 3. He is a horse
I always struggle with KD. Some people have him in the top 10 for me he’s closer to 20 I think. Even just looking at the newer entries to the top 25. To me Giannis is better, Jokic is better, Shai is better. Players from his generation like Bron, Kobe, Steph, Duncan are better. Dirk and KG could go either way.
Giannis isnt better than KD imo, because some of the things KD did he became disliked and i think that tremendously skews how people rank him
I think if we put shai there, it has to be for his numbers rather than his play itself. Because of the way he plays, I put him at like a “harden with a chip” level, rather than as an all timer. Like, I think he’s great, no question, but not on the level of Giannis or KD. Jokic would wind up top 5 if he was even a decent defender, but I think all the guys in the top ten should be good on both sides of the court at least. It occurs to me now that Jokic is kind of like the inverse Gobert, absolute game changer and legitimately in the discussion for GOAT at one end, liability at the other.
Giannis, Jokic and SGA aren’t top-25.
KD is at best 35th.
You re crazy, guy cant shoot to save his life. His skillset on offense is rather limited allthough very effective in this era. He was able to do so well by being a 7ft athletic freak in the small ball era. If he had to go vs Duncan KG Shaq Ben etc instead of 6’7 Draymond Green I dont think he d be running for MVP.
Love him on defense tho but not KG level. Overall i might put him over Dirk and KD cuz i like off + defense studs
Brother, we’re acting like he wouldn’t have been better in the 90s-00s. By today’s standards his scoring game is limited, by those older standards he’s even more unstoppable, add on that he’s a good playmaker, it’s like LeBron said, he would average a ridiculous amount.
It’s never fair to take modern players and move them back because and try and compare across generations because objectively things improve overtime, the average player today is better then the average player back then, same goes with the top tier talent. Plus you literally just can’t know, so no matter what it’s a bad fair argument.
I agree with that for most guys but the way Giannis plays he would def struggle. Ofc cant know fo sure but we can assume he wouldn’t be this productive since the paint was packed with heavy 7fters back then and Giannis has Zero range
he played the same position and he’s better
This isn’t the only factor though. Steph is unquestionably better than Magic in non-relative ability but it’s still a debate because better =/= greater all-time
That’s why I included all the stipulations.
I always forget with the brand and reputation that Barkley has built as a TV personality that dude was on the level of getting MVP votes every year for over a decade. That’s something only guys like Duncan, LeBron and Kareem have done.
Even in this thread there are people questioning why Barkley and Karl Malone (that’s more for the off-court stuff I assume) are mentioned here https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/H6Vr5jWcMT
It seems they just forget everyone that was great in the 90’s, if you weren’t called Michael Jordan, you just didn’t exist.
It’s prolly not so much “forget” as “was not born yet” lol
Oh but they’re super to quick point if Hakeem or “the logo” is missing lol
He has a better case than Malone, KG, Dirk, and Barkley, all of whom played the same position. He’s outside the top 10 but closer to 15 than people realize. Jokic emerging at the same time hurt him a lot, as he gets a least one more MVP otherwise.
Giannis and jokic are 14-18 imo
Agreed
Valid
Jokic 13-15, Giannis 17-20 imo
I don’t see an actually argument for Giannis being in a different tier than jokic when both players have same playoff success.
And sure jokic is more dominant in the regular season but in the playoffs it’s pretty much the same career,
And giannis also has the best finals performance of the decade(so far at least)
Dude ALL players’ careers are “hurt” by playing at the same time as other elite players, wtf kind of ridiculous ass argument is that lol
The point is that Jokic blew up out of nowhere to win the next two MVPs after Giannis won his two. Giannis was second in MVP voting both years. It’s not comparing him to a random elite player, it’s the guy that won instead of him.
you realize barkley/malone and dirk/kg happened right?
I would not put him past Dirk
Why not? He’s got the same number of titles, an extra MVP, a DPOY, 3 more first team all NBAs
Giannis hasn’t done anything close to dirks 2011 playoff run.
I will concede that he is a better defensive player tho
Even being top 25-50 would be an incredible finish for Giannis’s career given where he started. He’s undebateably hit that mark
I feel like he has got to be in the top 25 now. Multiple MVPs insane stats, great defense DPOTY, and a championship.
Clear bus driver too - idk if he can realistically scratch top ten but he ain’t outta the convo should he have a stellar career in Miami
Unless he wins a couple more rings, he won’t be top 10.
Closer to 15-18 than 25. There’s some active players who may finish ahead of him, which hurts. If he can get another ring that would be significant.
Yeah Lebron Steph and Durant MAY finish ahead of him…
He’s not 15 but def somewhere around 17-20
Giannis is right in front of KG on that list imo
Kg was more skilled than Giannis on both ends of the floor..
And Kyrie is more skilled than a lot of these centers but skill isn’t everything
Moses Malone so underrated
How is Moses Malone missing from your list ?
Durant lol. Him and AD need to share their secret glaze sauce.
I get that he played forever ago but can’t forget Moses.
My favorite player is KG but Moses was basically top 10 all-time as recently as like 2010 or so. Then he, Oscar, West got passed by some of the “modern-era” guys. Moses has an argument over like half the guys you named. Guys like Dr. J and Baylor are in the mix too.
M. Malone
Im putting him above Barkley and Baylor honestly
He’s got a very good case for second best PF behind Duncan, who also arguably didn’t even play PF for half his career. Above Dirk, KG, Malone, and Barkley IMO.
My top three is Duncan,Giannis and dirk although sometimes I have kg third
I love Dirk and KG was a beast. As for Giannis, I hate all the drama he played to get out of Milwaukee. Having said that it would be pretty illogical to not put Giannis ahead of both those guys. They are legends but Giannis has done enough to pass them both.
Screw karl Malone. Take him off all lists. Good list otherwise. Giannis is somewhere in the garnett nowitzkin area. I think jokic is in the same tier as those players. I think Durant’s in a new tier below.
Giannis is 14-18 imo
Yeah, I think Giannis and Jokic are on the same level. They both have an undisputed ring carry (which is relatively rare) and while Jokic may be the greatest offensive player ever, Giannis has played game-breaking defense for a decade.
I think Giannis achievements are overlooked. His most accomplished 3 year peak was ridiculous(2019-2021).
2xmvp,1fmvp,1xdpoy 3x all nba first teams 3x all defensive first teams. He was probably the best two player at that time
Jokic that low is crazy work.
The lack of Dr J and Moses Malone is also crazy. They belong above several of these names
Yeah no way Barkley is above Moses imo. He would tell you the same thing too.
Yeah, K Malone and Barkley stand out as not deserving top 20 from that list imo. I’d have Moses and GA above both of them.
He obviously is, why are we acting like it’s a hot take?
Because he’s somewhere around 28-32.
Giannis has long since surpassed the careers of: Garnett, Dirk, Malone, Barkley, West, Baylor.
Russell and Wilt should be grandfathered because of their era.
Right now he should be somewhere between 10-15.
I’ll give you all of those except KG. I don’t think he’s passed KG yet
Why tho;
Why would he have?
How has he not passed KG?
At their peaks, I’d probably rather have KG. It’s close.
The fact you answer with such lack of consideration means you’re sleeping on KG. It’s definitely close. He isn’t as good of a scorer as Giannis, but he’s a better shooter and better defender.
KG in his MVP year had as good of a season as anyone has ever had without winning the championship. The fact that he beat the 04 Kings in the conference semis with basically no help, then took Shaq and Kobe to 6 games with only old man Spree adding numbers was seriously legendary stuff.
If he hadn’t come up against the Lakers in 03 he arguably would have won and in his playoff loss in 02 he averaged like 18 boards. The guy just consistently got no help while taking all time teams to the wire.
He was still making defensive first teams in 2011.
I think if Giannis does something this year he probably passes him, but it’s still very close between those two
West and Baylor? No.
NO
Boy bye he’s not top 15
I’m literally just going off of the list I replied to.
And yeah, he’s top 15. So is Jokic and KD but yall aren’t ready to admit it yet.
KD yea obviously, Jokic & Giannis fuck no
You forgot the logo
Nah, he there
Kawhi top 21-25.
Giannis top 25-30
He’s already over multiple of those guys lmao Elgin Baylor is not better than fucking Giannis what are we talking about, he’s undoubtedly top 15. 2 MVPs a dpoy and a very hard chip
Why would there be a big gap between Nowitzki and Giannis? I feel like if you have one up or down you have to have the other one right next.
Mikan, Cousy, Pettit, Zeke, KD…
I think Giannis is more accomplished than Durant? Maybe more than Garnett too? I would be willing to put him above them or at least its a discussion. Maybe even Barkley.
Giannis has one more MVP but KD has one more chip, one more FMVP, six more AS nods, and is the only player with 4 (!) Olympic gold medals. Obviously Giannis isn’t on team USA but I guess it comes down to how much you personally value the difficulty of Giannis’ path to get there.
Yea the gold medals, while impressive in their own right, don’t really factor into this Top-x NBA all time discussion
I mean KD rings are weak AF compared to all the all time greats.
The rest is valid but isn’t it the NBA Hall of Fame? Or is it basketball hall of fame? Cause NBA I would put Giannis above KD accolades wise and that KD never lead a team to a title.
Nah KD still better all time
That’s fair to say but Giannis showed he could be THE player in his team. KD never did.
Having Curry 2 tiers (or at all) above Kd is pretty asinine
i don’t think those are tiers, but regardless kd is barely top 20, curry is top 15 at worst.
Lmao curry top 15 at best, kd top 15 at worst
KD is top 25 at worst lol, he’s not even better than wade. Had to join a super team to win and choked a 3-1 lead to said team. Can’t handle double teams. Can’t lead a team without a superstar pg. Had worse advanced stats than steph on the same team as him. Has less mvps, less rings. Couldn’t dream of winning a ring with wiggins as his best teammate. From 17-21 Curry averaged 2.1 more points, more assists, more steals, had a higher EFG%, higher BPM, higher PER, more WS/48, higher VORP and more 1st team all-NBA.. What a fraud. Giannis on his worst day still clears this bum.
He’s very clearly above KD, it’s not even funny.
Yup so much above that kd took 2 straight finals mvps from him while steadily outscoring him and playing better defence. Kd was also unanimously considered better for like the first 8 years of their career, they were competitive for like 2 and than with both in the warriors Kd was clearly considered better for another 3. Saying curry is above is such revisionist history.
Id put J Lin higher than Kobe
I’m going to refrain from commenting on some of the older generation, but I’d definitely put him above Garnett, and maybeeee Durant and dirk..
No Kawhi ?
Garnett? Durant? Hahaha
Pippen and remove Malone
I don’t have him above Dirk YET but if he gets another ring sure he’ll be there
giannis is the 2nd or 3rd greatest PF ever so id say he’s top 15
also why is curry over kobe?
What about Pistol Pete?
Mm, why are Garnett, Dirk, Malone and Robertson ahead of Jokic? Even west.
Delonte west is not top 20 get serious
Barkley was my fave player growing up, Giannis is better than him. He’s also better than Karl Malone, Elgin Baylor, KG, Dirk and Jokic. I think he’s been meandering in Milwaukee the past few seasons and Miami will revive him. We shall see
Giannis is only 31. Jordan was 32 at the start of his 2nd three-peat. LeBron was 35 with the Lakers ring. Obviously I’m not making direct comparisons, but some of you are acting like Giannis is old with no time left.
Now compare health
And aura.
And number of letters in their last names.
Now compare number of family members they got into the league. Giannis, lebron, then MJ is the goat list.
And business decisions
Giannis hasn’t had a meaningful playoff series since 2022. That’s why we can’t compare that it those 2 who were in intense playoff seires and wins in the midst of their prime.
It’s not an age thing, it’s a staying healthy thing.
At the same age Giannis is now, Tim Duncan had already won four championships
Him and Jokic are likely done at 1 chip.
Winning repeatedly isn’t easy.
More a testament to the “2nd Apron Era” than anything imo. Sure the Bucks had bad luck with injuries, but I think the Nuggets could have run it back if they had kept most of their core.
The second apron era that started in 2024 after Giannis had played 10 years?
I think the nuggets only lost bruce brown immediately after 2023. Probably wouldnt have been enough to get them over minnesota, even if it was, they wouldnt have beat dallas or boston.
In reality the nuggets window was 2021-2023. They lost the first two years of their window to injuries.
Well said.
This is why rings as measurement of how great a player is is dumb.
Definitely.
The younger fans will look at a guy like Chuck and wonder why he’s so acclaimed. It’s sad tbh.
It’s the ultimate measure of how great you are and how great players across different eras should be compared
I thoroughly disagree with this. MJ and LeBron should be celebrated because they were the #1 on their teams on multiple championships, true. But if we just go by rings then Bill Russel will be the undisputed GOAT until someone else racks more than 11.
Are we ranking Danny Green over Reggie Miller because of the rings count? Is Draymond a better PF than Dirk, KG or Chuck? Is Rondo better than Steve Nash?
Jokic imo is the goat. He just never had great teammates and never tried to team up with other players to make a big 3 and shit. If Lebron never left Cleveland, would he not be considered as great as he is? He is the exact same person and would probably have similar stats.
So because it doesn’t fit Jokic sexuals narrative apparently it’s dumb to measure championships.
Him and Giannis are functionally equivalent on the all time list too - the defense gap is way larger than the playmaking one and the MVPs have clear media bias for Jok
Nah one of the 2 is probably getting another chip
I can’t see it.
Jokic out West? Nah.
Maybe Giannis. But it’s a long shot.
I’d give both of them a 20% chance at best.
They could get another, they are probably not going to get another.
that’s more of a testament to the Spurs front office than the abilities of Tim Duncan
And their coaching
Besides the Spurs being a better run organisation, who wouldn’t possibly entertain signing someone like Doc Rivers, the kind of roster Tim had isn’t lasting for more than a couple seasons nowadays, especially after a championship win.
No chance he gets top 10. Is there anyone in the top 10 who has the same playoff shortcomings as Giannis, ie. a top seed getting knocked out by the 8 seed, etc?
Edit: it seems like the bar is Hakeem and Tim Duncan. Hakeem is not in my top 10, and Tim has 5 rings, so once again, it’s not happening.
The Rockets once missed the playoffs (42-40 record) in a season Hakeem played 70 games, after losing in the first round for all of the four previous seasons.
Hakeem isn’t over Kobe, Shaq, or Oscar for me
Valid, but he’s still commonly in that top 10 mix. Though if you’re counting Big O I’ve got some real bad news about his level of playoff success, too.
Yep, and that’s why the Big O isn’t in the top 10 either
I was talking about this the other day, what is it that Oscar has that makes people place him in the top 20
All other players in the top 20 are mvps+the best player on a championship team except David Robinson I think
He’s one of the most talented guards ever and had the triple double season. He was universally respected by peers. He often lost to the eventual champs. He was key to Kareem’s first title.
I have Hakeem over both Oscar and Kobe, not Shaq.
did you even watch Oscar play
He’s above Kobe and Oscar for me
Kareem and Magic got bounced in the 1st round by a team with a losing record (40-42). They were the defending champions and still had the same core of 4 HoFers.
Moses Malone, someone else who is above Giannis, dominated Kareem in that series. He also went on to being the best player in the Finals even though they lost to the Celtics
Yes but Moses is not a top-10 player and oftentimes forgotten for top-15. Kareem and Magic are both top-5⁄6 players, the former being in the GOAT convo. That is a literal one-of-a-kind, generational collapse because they are literally the only players in the top-10 to lose in the 1st round to a team with a losing record. WHILE TEAMMATES
Hakeem coincidentally also lost to a team with a losing record, but is lucky to be exempted because he lost in the 2nd round.
edit: btw this is not an argument for Giannis in the top-10. Just pointing out it’s surprisingly common for the top-10 to get upset in the postseason
For me Moses is a lock for top 15.
1st round was best of 3 back then. And Magic missed most of that season with a knee injury so the Lakers never quite got back on track. And that 40 win team went onto the Finals and took the Celtics to 6 games. And featured Moses Malone who was arguably the best player in the league at the time.
Pretty important bits of context to leave out, no?
No chance? Heat win back to back and he’s not in the conversation?
And what are the chances of that happening?
No chance that happens.
There is literally a chance. You play to win the game. Anything’s possible. It’s sports
Taking hyperbolic statements literally sure is a choice.
I’d give it 50⁄50, either it happens or it doesn’t
This guy probabilities.
If he wins another championship or two, he’s probably in the same tier as Oscar or Hakeem. And those guys are frequently included in that conversation.
Back to back with two finals mvps, two regular season mvps, one defensive player of the year and cooks Wemby in one of the finals and he may get to top ten.
lol, good one. 👍
There’s a zero percent chance this happens, I was just answering what he has to do for people to consider him too 10
He cooks Wemby every time he faces him
Yeah he’s not getting Top 10 I don’t think. One more ring gets him in the conversation but Hakeem still had a way better career
dirk lost to 8th seed
And dirk is nowhere near anyone’s top 10 list … lol
Duncan did too
Was that warriors with Mateen cleaves?
Maaan that hurts lol. Ig I’ll just sulk back to east lansing.
it was baron davis idk why i said mateen cleaves. they look the same to me.
He’s also not close to the top 10. At this point, the jury is out over who ranks higher, Dirk or Giannis
Dirk also has one of the best finals/playoff performances of all time
Dirk had the best finals win ever imo and he doesn’t even sniff the top 10., Giannis should aim high and all, but yeah.
Dirk didn’t even have a better finals than Giannis lol.
Dude dropped 40 in back to back games and closed the series out with a 50 piece. Yet, his greatest highlight from that series was on the defensive end.
Not even to mention he did that after inverted his knee.
Ditk had arguably the toughest road the the chip in NBA history.
Hakeem has a better one.
TD in 2003 and Hakeem in ‘94 were both better.
Yea Tim Duncan in 2011 lost to an 8 seed. Never mentioned tho lol
Yea because he has 5 championships not 1 lmao…
Right? Lmao. These bums trying to trash Duncan 😂
He just answered the question lol
With a lot of help from being on one of the best teams ever.
Hakeem and Oscar are often in this conversation, and if Giannis wins another championship or two, I could see him being on a similar tier as those guys.
Hakeem and Duncan carried their teams in a way that Giannis never could. Duncan’s 2003 championship is greater than anything Giannis will ever achieve.
Because nuance matters. Giannis has had some playoff stinkers as someone who’s 31 years old. Duncan’s stinker against the grizzlies came when he was 34. To make that comparison would mean that Giannis would have a bad series in the 2029 playoffs.
Another reason people don’t mention that series is that the spurs second best player and second all star that season fractured his elbow the last game of the regular season in Manu. He played hurt but wasn’t effective at all
Because nuance matters
But they don’t matter for Giannis? Giannis missed half the series against the Heat due to injury and still came back and dropped like 38⁄20 on a bad back lol. His last playoff appearance he averaged 33ppg. Many of “his” stinkers over the last 5 years were because either him, Khris, Dame or a combination of them were injured lol.
I don’t think I’ve ever been more scared of an opponent than Giannis against the Celtics in the 2022 playoffs. Three 40-point games. It felt like five-against-one but then it also felt like Giannis was two-handed dunking on all five guys ever play.
Hakeem is probably like 11th or so.
It will be difficult, but it’s not inconceivable that Giannis could surpass Hakeem, Oscar Robertson, and maybe one of two other guys who are in that conversation.
He would probably need to win another championship or two.
His only play off short comings was that series in 2023 and that team went to the finals while also beating Boston.
That Heat team was the same team the year prior that was the first seed in the east, they were just injured all season and ended up 8th in 2023. Also love slid under him game 1 and he missed 2 1⁄2 games of that series which everyone conveniently leaves out.
He won’t get top 10 but it definitely won’t be because of that one series, especially when it wasn’t his fault.
Not an mj fan I see…
Duncan has been on a better organization his entire career, his rings aren’t the example of him dragging a team over the line.
Bro, his 2003 was 3x more impressive than Giannis’ ‘21.
Tim Duncan
Duncan won 5 rings lol
The question was if someone in the top 10 had something happen to them like getting knocked out by the 8th seed. Which happened to Tim Duncan. Obviously Time Duncan is ranked higher cause he has the rings, but the point is that rings are the only thing that Giannis lacks
the fact that we are putting tim duncan in this convo is so disrespectful to tim duncan. giannis can win 3 rings i. miami for all i care. he won’t top me fundamental beat pf ever timmy d
Fair, but the rings offset it
Are we really trying to compare Duncan at age 34 playing the grit n grind grizzlies when the second best player on the team played with a broken elbow in Manu?
At the age Giannis is now, Duncan really didn’t have any bad playoff let downs and had already won four titles. It’d be like knockjng Giannis for having a bad playoffs in 2029
How about someone who is much worse playoff performer than Giannis and who is widely considered top 10…. Wilt.
Giannis was nowhere close to dominating like Wilt did. 4 MVPs and broke every statistical NBA record that exists.
Of course Giannis did not achieve as much as Wilt, rare few people did.
I was just answering his question which was: “Is there anyone in the top 10 who has the same playoff shortcomings as Giannis”. And yes, that is Wilt.
I have him around 35. He’s a loser. The first King of Empty Stats (Westbrook is his heir. Harden and Embiid want to be. LBJ is in that category too, although he accomplished more of course. LBJ is in this place where he’s maybe too good for that, but not good enough to legitimately be in that top-6 all-time debate.)
Wilt’s stats are so overwhelmingly dominant compared to his peers and arguably anyone else in NBA history, so I think we tend to overlook his playoff success.
It’s a longshot at this point, but if Giannis had another epic run to a title you definitely start thinking about him over Hakeem. Hell, I think Giannis has been a better player than Hakeem.
If Giannis keeps improving it’s not a wild take that he cracks the top 10. Everytime I watch this dude play I can’t think that if he was able to shoot he could be GOAT. Imagine Giannis with a wet jump shot and fade aways. He’d be unstoppable.
Ben Simmons with a jump shot would be a top 10 player too but a player who is bad shooting suddenly becoming a good shooter barely ever happens. Bro is 31 now, his game is what it is at this point
Giannis is a little different because he started playing basketball as a teenager. Some dude recognized he tall and athletic and convinced him to start playing.
So he came into the league raw as fuck and he’s continuously getting better. So there is a glimmer of hope that his shooting improves (it looks like he believes in himself and is continuing to work at it, which is half the battle).
Top 10 would be incredibly hard for him to get if he doesn’t have another championship. Think of the guys in the 8-11 range ish and what they’ve done. Jokic has a muuuuch better chance imo
Top 10 Centers, maybe.
But all positions? He’d never pass MJ, Kobe, Bron, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Magic, Duncan, or half a dozen others.
Only reason he wont is because he wont win enough rings.
giannis’ story is so cool. guy was project-iest of projects on draft day and the talk was if he could shoot he could play. his blossoming into an mvp player was so rare. he’s the only one ever to win most improved player and mvp and it’s hard to think of a player who could’ve won both (like a hypothetical winner of MIP before the award existed).
e: actually there is one other person who i think could’ve won both and coincidentally it’s the guy that won mvp after him, jokic.
Kawhi did have a yr where has a MVP finalist. He never won MIP or MVP, but his trajectory/expectations was not much coming into the league, then he became 1 of the best players in certain yrs (when healthy)
Giannis came out of the fucking stands on draft day lol
Don’t think so, no
Top ten is a tough task
Have to win multiple rings if he wants that to be Top 10
If he wants to get into the top-25*
Good goal to set. It’s the mindset
Only way you gonna be top 10 is… if… you… win some rings… in Miami?
He gonna win some rings in Miami LFGGG! 🔥
The question is simply, what does he have to do to be ranked ahead of Steph and Kobe? Those are the two players always around 10 struggling to make it in. The top 10 is mainly GOATs who ran the league for years.Giannis would need to win 2 more rings minimum to be considered. With some dope playoff numbers.Which is doable. Giannis is incredible.
I agreed until you said “which is doable”
Same people who were poking fun at people outraged over SGA’s I’m the best statement are the ones outraged here. Reddit is funny man. Who cares, it’s his opinion, most players think they’re the greatest.
Jokic: “I like Taco Bell commercials!”
I like horses
Probably why he has only made 2 conference finals appearances in his career.
I like his game I wouldn’t have thought many ppl have him in the top 20 though?
I’d have him in the 15-20 range Let’s say the top 12 is some combination of MJ, LeBron, Bird, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Hakeem, Curry, Duncan)
Id go
Oscar
KD
Julius Erving
Jokic
KG
Giannas
Jerry West?
I’d take Giannas but tbf I didn’t see west play
Jokic and Giannis over KD for me.
Yeh, I think I’m higher on KD than most
What about KD vs KG
Same. They won their championship by themselves. They’re also still a threat to win a championship.
That’s it really.
Swap those two with KD on those Warriors and I reckon they win two still. Swap KD for those two in their respective teams and do they win still? Maybe? But I wouldn’t feel as confident.
Yall genuinely would do anything for Jokic man😂
Don’t act like it’s so egregious. You can disagree but how are we talking this way about a THREE time MVP?
KD has scored damn near double the points in the league that Jokic has. Y’all aren’t serious.
I didn’t know that points make for who’s greater.
Jokic has more MVPs and is an all time great in his own right with a dominant 3-5 year stretch that rivals any one.
You’re acting like he’s Kirilenko or something.
Cool KD and Derozen get to share the “greatest modern scorer” trophy
Jokic has 3x KD’s MVPs. And actually led a team to the finals win, as opposed to just riding the bus.
I’d put Giannis above KG
I’m a wolves fan, but also I think KG was a more talented player but Giannas will probably accomplish more
Karl Malone has 11 all nba first teams and has the third most total points ever… unlucky to face Jordan.
Pedophile and also choked a ton in the playoffs. Plus Malone lost a lot of series in the playoffs prior to ever facing Jordan.
Giannis choked a ton in playoffs too if that is a parameter. Spent years crashing into a wall.
You got Kobe and Wilt there, rape is not relevant.
“Pedophile” has no relevance to his ability as a basketball player.
He sucks, but that would only maybe matter in this conversation if his behaviour constantly sabotaged team culture/chemistry. As far as I know, that’s not the case.
Kobe was probably a rapist, but that doesn’t change that he was a great basketball player, either.
the pedo is in the same range too. he was an elite player
you’re fucking nuts. KG would eat giannis alive. he ain’t even close to top 20 wtf is this
2 MVPS > 1 and 1 FMVP > 0.
Younger fans im sure. Older players get devalued over time. Just how its always been
I’ve got him 28-32.
Top 20? Not sure…
If you can name 20 players better than him go ahead, but I think you’ll really struggle if you actually look at giannis’ stats and resume.
I’m top 20 in amount of chocolate milk drank in a lifetime, and im gonna get top 10.
He should be on my team 😭
Nah i love him but top 10 no
This is a guy who’s won zero playoff series in the past 5 years
Whoever filmed this needs a new mic
Idk man… Giannis just drives and gets fouled. He’d be the lowest skill all timer for sure. At least Shaq had this mystic power that made it a different game.
He’s easily top 30-40, since he’s making a speech he said 20, acceptable.
He’s way higher than 40.
Including Giannis, only 14 players have at least 2 MVPs and a ring.
15 if you include Dr. J’s ABA career.
Plus Giannis has a DPOY.
Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Lebron
Kobe
Duncan
Shaq
Russell
Curry
It would be very difficult to put him above those ten multigenerational champions, unless he wins another 3 rings before he retires, or another two rings and Olympic Gold. That’s tough, not impossible, just tough.
Then you have guys like:
Hakeem
Wilt
Wade (possible limit)
Nowitzki (possible)
Jokic (possible)
Durant (debatable - might already surpass him on trajectory)
I have him above KG, Oscar, Erving, West and Malone.
Top 15 is possible, I would say top 20 is a lock.
Def not top 20 lol
You are getting downvoted, but I think I’m with you man. I don’t know who you’d replace
No you’re not Giannis…
Really ? Looks just like him.
You sure got him, Steve from Portland
Top 5 or 10 is pretty solid, but i swear there are a hundred guys in the top 20…
He’s probably a top 10 basketball player ever already to endorse gambling.
One of the best basketball player in the whole world, a very very succesful athlete, tries motivating people
Redditors who likely not even top 20 basketball players in their neighborhood: “Yeahhh Idk if he’s top 20 tho let alone top 10”
I’ve never seen any player do that before
Top 20 is reasonable
Malone should be off any list. Guys a fkn creep
If he “accidentally” walks into every star players landing space, he could surely get himself top 10!
I’m actually very thankful that he said this, cuz my friend kept telling me that he’s a top 10 player
He’s not wrong about top 20. Top 10 is tough though. Needs bare minimum 2 more chip and 2 more MVPs.
yeah to me he’s 17th so checks out, idt he’ll ever crack top 10 tho
bron mj kareem magic bird
russell hakeem duncun curry shaq
kobe dr.j wilt big-o jwest
m.malone giannis jokic garnett robinson
durant wade …
Mikan
I don’t see him having enough physical tools left for him to put together a good enough rest of his career to put him in the top 10
To get there, he needs to establish himself as the clear-cut #2 PF of all time, ahead of players like KG, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Dirk, and Barkley. He also needs to surpass Hakeem. Among active players, only LeBron has reached that tier.
It’s not impossible for Giannis, but even in an optimistic scenario, I see him finishing a tier above those forwards and in the same tier as Hakeem.
There’s also a big difference between the consensus top 10 tier (Bird, Magic, Duncan, Russell, Kobe, Shaq) and the top 10-ish tier (Steph, KD, Hakeem). The latter is very much within Giannis’ reach.
Only if he plays another 10 years and is a dominant force on one or two more NBA champions, which I do not see happening
He doesn’t need 10 more years but he does need a dominant Heat run w/ another chip (at least one, but prolly two)
He’s not going to win more.
As his former teammates already said it, he was the last to arrive at the trips and training.
It is normal to lose the passion for sport, life goes on after retirement and you have to prepare for it.
Hypothetically, Giannis with a sick jumper à la Durant or Curry, could be GOAT. The odds of that happening is slim to none, but based on this clip Giannis seems to think he hasn’t reached his peak yet and is continuously improving. Giving him the benefit of the doubt and I’d love to see Giannis continue to get better. I feel there’s still a lot of potential in him and cracking top 10 is not unreasonable if he continues to get better.
But you could potentially make that argument for any of the current top players. Not unreasonable for wemby, Luka, Jokic to crack top 10 if they continue to get better.
If I was a lawyer, my argument is bulletproof because the stipulation is “if they continue to get better”, which leaves a lot for interpretation. Meaning it depends on HOW much they get better. And in this instance, if they continue to get better until they crack the top 10.
Brought to you by Kalshi
Top 20 nah who yall take off this list for giannis ? Besides K. Malone lol
Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Bill Russell
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kobe Bryant
Shaquille O’Neal
Stephen Curry
Oscar Robertson
Jerry West
Moses Malone
Kevin Durant
David Robinson
Karl Malone
Dirk Nowitzki
Kevin Garnett
Charles Barkley
John Havlicek
Elgin Baylor
Dwyane Wade