[Windhorst] The Spurs internally believe Dylan Harper is their second best player. I’m not saying Mitch Johnson is going to come out and say that. That’s not a slight on De’Aaron Fox, Stephon Castle. Harper is a stud
I watched spurs the whole playoffs harper is really good but when fox didn’t play they missed his ball handling and creation a lot.
Without fox they don’t get to the finals
Without Harper they don’t get to the finals
Without Wemby they don’t get to the finals
That’s not the point. No one is saying to get rid of Harper. They also don’t get to the finals without Wemby, Castle, Vassell, Kornet, etc.
And yet he lost them the finals too. Fox’s skillset is replaceable, specially if the rookie can already do his scoring. Just improve the playmaking and Harper already better than Fox at a younger age and for cheaper
“Just replace the playmaking”. Like its easy for teams to even find average playmaking in the current NBA
Just make the other players better. Are they stupid?
Maybe Harper can develop some rim protection too, then the Spurs won’t need Wemby either
Fox isn’t even a better playmaker than Harper, Harpers stats are just deflated from his lower minutes, bench role and lower usage. It’s literally a James Harden coming off the bench behind Westbrook situation. Harpers per 100 possession, AST% and Tov% numbers are all comparable to Fox’s.
It’s San Antonio. If any organization can develop that, they can. Harper has shown flashes, and worst case scenario they got Castle to do the playmaking and Harper the scoring. My point is, they don’t need Fox
How much VC does he need to drop into pass acc you think?
Please explain. He had one good game against OKC, what else did he do exactly?
which would have been better than losing in the finals
Right, because…uh…
Because losing on the finals is the worst kind of losing.
There’s 3 type of teams in the NBA.
The champion.
Teams that don’t make the final
And then the team that loses the finals
That’s fucking stupid
Doesn’t it feel good when the troll just deletes their entire profile after showing their ass?
Nah. Losing in the finals is a proof you can’t hang when the lights are brightest.
I can tell you’re a new fan
He was ass as usual vs Wolves
Cuz he was injured. Even with the injury him simply being out there made Castle’s turnovers go down like crazy. Harper is a way more secure ball handler though so he didn’t really turn it over with Fox out lio Castle
As someone rooting for the Spurs to lose, I was absolutely terrified whenever Harper would get subbed in.
And would breathe a sigh of relief whenever Fox got the ball.
You might be the only Celtics fan alive who was rooting for the Knicks to win that.
Everybody I work with in Boston hated that outcome.
I’m a recently converted Celtics fan, after they salary dumped Jaylen Brown and after it came out that they thought Derrick White was better.
Hard to not root for a team so ahead of the curve.
… what?
What do you mean converted? Who were you supporting before?
Ts got me dying
Celtics boutta be ass this year , not even making the playoffs
Fox is the better ball handler/true point guard while Dylan Harper is clearly the better player overall. It’s an interesting situation to navigate. One of Castle/Harper really needs to take their ball handling/play making to the next level, otherwise the Spurs are gonna have to keep trotting out Fox and play these janky lineups.
Fox is only slightly better at those things for now if at all, and he’s not gonna get much better than he is
How is this comment getting upvotes? He’s significantly better at those things.
Two things can be true.
The Spurs needed Fox for his ability to get the offense into their sets
Harper is the Spurs’ second best player
But he’s not. Castle is.
Ya, this sub really memed Fox too hard
He’s the one professional dribbler and organizer they have
Harper is good but raw, and for sure more of a two guard than a pg (at least today)
Castle I like but I think he’s overrated imho. Solid, good, but overrated
Anyways, all that is to say they are much worse without Fox, love it or hate it. And Harper probably can be their second best player long term but today is probably number 4
Fox is great, he played with a high ankle sprain in the playoffs. People seem to forget that
I’m really hoping Castle learned some lessons from the playoffs and evolves his offence. Just slamming into the defence like a battering ram was not working for him. I think he has the tools, hopefully he can add to his bag.
In today’s “position-less” league, Harper can’t even be considered a PG? If he wasn’t there last year, I think he’ll prove deserving come end of this season.
Someone else was saying he was a wing and transition slasher… and, yes he does that, but he can also run pnr well.
Harper had the same assists per 36 as rookie Cade with significantly less turnovers. More of a 2 guard?
Ya, and you didn’t have to reach at all there, you got me
Is Cade a 2 guard?
did I hallucinate Fox over dribbling and tossing up some bullshit in the finals
The playoff games that Fox missed, Castle turned it over literally like 10 times per game
People forgot castle had a triple double in the okc series:
17 pts/ 11 ast/ 11 TURNOVERS
the coaches mistaked harper for a shooting guard and castle for a point guard, they need to flip this
People only remember the last thing a player does. Fox was terrible in the Finals and also a major reason they got there. They were gonna be COOKED vs OKC without him.
Harper and Castle combined for like 40 turnovers in the 2 games without him.
Harper also was injured in game 2 of that series and didn’t really play well the next few games. People seem to forget that. It’s probably the main reason Fox absolutely had to come back when he did.
Fox was a huge reason why the Spurs best OKC. The team was turning over the ball like crazy until a hobbled Fox came back
Fox was dogwater in the Finals but people forget they don’t win the series against the Thunder without him
Grade 3 ankle sprain btw. The only worse injury would be a full ankle fracture
It annoys me how so many people just leave this fact out.
I dunno, I think it’s kinda fun when people (*cough*billsimmons*cough*) tell on themselves with just brutally bad analysis of the Spurs roster and how they lost to the Knicks.
except his speed looked okay, it was his decisionmaking that was the problem. He didn’t have a Grade 3 Brain Injury did he?
His speed did not look remotely okay… lmao
Eh he had virtually no lift on his shots whatsoever. Spurs were losing that series either way but fox was obviously very hobbled.
Fox was aggressive, hit some clutch shots & also had some plays he wish he could take back.
At the end of the day, he played through a very serious injury & stayed aggressive. Fox deserves credit for being willing to take big shots & play through injury.
The layup he missed was IMO not a bad idea. You win by being aggressive. Fox helped the Spurs in 2026, especially against the Thunder in G7.
He made the wrong decision on going for the layup. But all those missed jumpers he usually makes? The power from a jumpshot comes from the legs, and the ankle is a fundamental part of the leg, right?
The sprain doesn’t explain the horrific turnovers where he was just passing the ball to Knicks players in Game 4
Fox is overhated, that all time choke isn’t solely on him.
Nobody ever talks about Wemby clanking 2 free throws with 1:47 left in that same fourth quarter, or in Game 2 when he passed to Castle with his back turned and it bounced out of bounds to seal the loss
I agree with you that Fox is over-hated but an experienced veteran PG is held to a higher standard than a 22 year old in his first playoff run ever.
It was still a team wide collapse though.
missing 2 free throws after telling sub 30% free throw shooter mitchell robinson “im in your head”
lol cuz it’s Wemby bro. Hes allowed to make mistakes given everything he does for the team. Spurs aren’t even sniffing the playoffs without him.
And even though he wasn’t scoring much after injury, he suppressed the Spurs turnovers like crazy when he came back vs OKC’s crazy aggressive defensive personnel. Castle turned it over 20 times in the 2 games he was out and 12 in the 5 he played
And they wouldn’t have made the Finals without Fox. Wemby’s great but he does have some of the worst turnovers at the worst times.
You don’t have to single out Wemby, but it’s also unfair to single out Fox. The entire Spurs team played like an inexperienced group of youngsters in the finals. Dylan Harper shot 28% from 3 and had a very similar A:TO ratio to Fox. Castle had the most awful TOs and worst efg% among the starters. No one was blameless.
Should the same not apply to fox though. Dude spent 8 years in Sac. You can’t expect people to go from playing on the kings to playing championship basketball
They both all-time choked but Wemby is the generational superstar who you hope will improve and Fox is guy taking up minutes from your young stars on while on massive contract
Victor shot 35% from the field after the 1st quarter in the finals, Castle shot 37⁄30 splits in the finals overall and went 1⁄10 in game 5, and Keldon and Kornet were both unplayable but somehow Fox is the sole scapegoat its pretty funny how groupthink works when it comes to narratives
If Wemby had Luka/Shai/Early Lebron levels of PR it would be a daily talking point on TV still
The pass to Castle I feel like is slow-mo bias; he started to pass when Castle was looking and Castle looked up-court as Wemby’s arms are extending.
Clanking free throws though? Gotta buy Pop a new car after that one.
As a lead guard, this was Castle’s fault entirely. I don’t know why Wemby is being blamed for this. There’s only two options for any lead guard after your big gets the rebound: either you sprint down the court for a fastbreak or you look for the pass to advance the ball yourself. Castle looked for the pass then said nah I’m good.
Fox is the easy scapegoat but you’re right. The youth of their team showed throughout the playoffs. You got the highs and the flashes of greatness in games but also the lows in games.
I think they’ll be really scary this season after reaching that top and losing. I really hope they can keep their core together because the last time I was this excited about a young core it was probably Westbrook, Harden, KD Thunder
I thought it was worse than that . Iirc Brunson stole it after it hit castle in the back and wemby fouled him instead forcing him to make a decision with the ball
That one layup was pretty bad
He was playing through a high ankle sprain that usually have a 6-12 week recovery time. He only missed two games.
The games without Fox they were turning the ball over so much it was frustrating. They need a ball handler
R u dumb
I had him second behind Brunson for Knicks MVP
He was clearly injured
[deleted]
What you expect him to do? Stand in the corner and let the others play 4v5? You gon do what you can to the best of your ability. Fox relys heavily on quickness and in general mostly lower body. You can’t just suddenly transform into a completly different player in the middle of a season or series unless your name is LBJ
That’s fox
Fox legit lost his dribble more times than any star player should. He was worse than some centers. People just try to give Fox props for something but he was historically bad in the finals and playoffs in general.
I don’t think it’s about giving props to Fox it’s just true that their turnover rate with him on the floor was a lot better
I was fine with the turnover rate. We still won games. I think they’d have eventually figured that out.
He was injured.
Not his hands lol.
And they still had less turnovers with him on the floor. It was turnover fest without him
And we won games with the most turnovers ever. And I think we barely lost the other turnover game. It was fine.
He didn’t play for two games against possibly the best perimeter defense of all time and one of them, Harper got injured lol.
He’s just young
Harper is their second best player.
Harper might be a better player overall, but Fox is a more important player to this team.
Not the same, but no matter that KD was Finals MVP, that was Steph who was the engine
Fox’s skills are more important right now.
Revisit in a few years.
Fox had so many questionable decision making and critical turnovers in the Finals. The Spurs were definitely better off had they given most of his minutes and touches to Harper.
And when Fox was out during OKC they really struggled. His return changed that series.
I disagree. I know what you mean Fox did struggle, but they don’t have any other primary ball handlers. Harper can’t do it (yet), castle can’t. Fox makes them better even if he had some bad games in the finals
Were we watching the same playoffs? Fox was a turnover and brick machine. As a thunder fan I wanted him on the court the whole series
nah the turnover machine was castle when Fox wasn’t here.
I used to be super high on Castle but after the Finals I kind of think they should trade him to the Pelicans for Trey Murphy + Herb Jones and a couple picks
trade him away then blow up the team because of the 2nd apron smart moves
He also shot 41% for 2 and 29% from 3..
The amnesia is crazy. I was rooting for the spurs and I would get pissed when fox got the ball cause he was gonna put up a brick. Didn’t matter how nice the move was it was a brick. Plus the blocked layup, he wasn’t good, even he did handle the rock well
Yeah I’m genuinely shocked there’s anybody downvoting me haha, anybody who knows basketball and watched the playoffs can say Fox is not a star and is going to be a burden on the Spurs as long as he’s there
Sports have this positive revisionism on players. We’re literally being gaslit reading top comments acting like fox is a star to any degree or lead anything. Absolute terrible contract and is literally the only reason this is a conversation
It was the spurs teens first playoffs. Thats normal. Fox is hampering them fully especially now that they got playoff experience
That’s partly cause Harper was also injured and castle just isnt/wasn’t ready to be a full time PG with his turnover issues and they haf zero supplementary ball handling basically. They couldn’t just hand it to a 3 or 4 and say dribble the ball up the court and then we will initiate the offence.
Harris should help a lot with that imo.
Maybe I missed something in the earlier series but Harper was head and shoulders better on both ends of the floor in the OKC and Knicks series. Playing Fox more than Harper cost them the finals imo
Deandre Fox should play the whole game especially in the finals lol
Drop Castle to the bench
He’s the number one poa defender on the team. He earned his spot and next to Wemby, is the most important player in the starting lineup
Didn’t do much to slow Brunson in the finals
Not too mention the double digits TO
Harper has the tool and physique to be just as good, if not better, defender
Brunson shot 42% from the field. His crazy game 5 brought it up from the 30s. Castle did a great job.
Harper so far in the NBA plays like a mini wing attacking rotations off the catch and abusing weak players in isolation.
The Harper-Fox convo is pointless because he has never actually been asked to run the offense for the team in a meaningful way. When Fox was hurt Castle very noticeably turned into a TO machine but more quietly and just as importantly Harper really didn’t do anything he wasn’t already doing with the extra opportunity. Harper is both a stud and also has never been asked to be the team’s point guard.
It’s also a great “problem” to have. Having too much talent is way better than not having enough
If Harper is so good that he’s Better than Fox it’s not something that hurts the team. Obviously that’s if Fox play doesn’t fall of a cliff
This is the most reasonable take. Harper was amazing in his role, but he was a 6th man mostly destroying the other team. He made leaps through the season, but its not reasonable to expect him or Castle ro be THE point guard yet
Also castle had the high turnovers against a team that is known for producing the highest % of opponent turnovers.
Uhh I mean I agree Harper needs to work on having the keys to the offense, but he dropped 24/11/6 with a Spurs record 7 steals in that game. Castle was rough with the turnovers and we definitely needed Fox, but Harper absolutely cooked with the extra opportunities.
He is VERY Amen Thompson. They’re different in certain ways, but offensively, they provide a similar function.
“the Spurs believe grass is green”
Anybody who watched the playoffs knows Harper is their 2nd best player. I wouldn’t be surprised if he becomes their #1 option on offense in a season or two.
It’s going to be a 1a, 1b situation at most for Harper but Wemby will always be either 1 or 1a. People for some reason underrate Wemby’s offense - he was averaging 25 ppg in 29 minutes with excellent efficiency. Harper won’t be true first option when there’s a 7’5 center who shoots 37% on catch and shoot 3s and is 78% when he’s 0-3 feet from the rim - which is higher than both Giannis and prime Shaq, albeit he still does that on lower volume for now.
Wemby doesn’t have a go to move and it really showed in the clutch against the Knicks. Harper at least has some
A good deal of those points are people setting Wemby up and putbacks. It’s being an offensive force, but not the kind of thing you build an entire offense around.
He also gets tired pretty easily. Way better for team to get max effort on D and 1b type offense from him than vice versa.
One of the most reasonable takes I’ve seen in this section. Refreshing
Harper won’t be true first option when there’s a 7’5 center who shoots 37% on catch and shoot 3s
37 percent on catch and shoot 3s is not that great. There’s tons of guys who do that. Also, if he’s catching and shooting that means someone else is creating the play.
Harper could definitely become a first option unless Wembanyama develops more on-ball offense.
Yea but how many of them are 7 foot 5 and shoot 78% from 0-3 feet
I think you’re forgetting the 7’5 part
You watch games at all or just read stats. Being the tallest player don’t make you #1 option in the league.
People for some reason underrate Wemby’s offense
They don’t underrate it, it is simply nowhere near as impressive in the points dpt. as it could or should be with his skill level and size advantage.
That’s a pretty absurd take
wemby is obviously an alien but he’s not really a heavy iso type of guy. you’ll need a little of that to win rings and harper can be that guy
Is it? He’s 11 inches shorter than Wemby, had 33 less attempts in the Finals and finished with only 9 fewer made baskets. His bag is so much deeper than anyone else on that team.
> his bag
His ability to finish at the rim is at times almost unbelievable. He might have the highest per-game rate of me saying out loud “he’s so fucking good”
No gimmicks no foul baiting just a virtuoso of driving to the hoop
Ron is a playoff riser too. Harper bros don’t feel pressure man.
thats true and they had the same defensive coverage on them too
/s
not rly, wemby still has a ways to go on his shot creation and playmaking and honestly i think he works better as a pnr partner, especially because he can also pop or fade off the screen
plus harper looks he absolutely has 1st option potential and he makes rly good decisions considering his age
I think Wemby’s passing is a better part of his offensive game than his shot creation ability. His handle needs to get tighter and he needs to fill out a little more to really unlock that part of his game to get to spots and not be dislodged but you get him to the paint on the roll or mid post and he’s much better
not really. Wemby doesn’t have to be the main option and that’s completely okay.
He does it he wants to be the GOAT
No it isn’t. He is smooth and has shown flashes of having a really high bar efficiency wise. If he plays 30 minutes a night he’s easily going to be around 18-20ppg this year.
Wemby, like LeBron, will NEVER be the number 2 guy on any team unless he’s washed. I don’t give a fuck whether has no go-to move yet. I don’t care about any statistics. I don’t give a damn how good harper is. We all have eyes.
The best young player we’ve ever witnessed since LeBron James… playing second fiddle… yeah I’m sorry but that is SO dumb.
Who cares which player is second best bs third best, basketball requires five players on the court and everyone in the org knows Harper will be in the starting 5 soon.
Wemby is not letting someone become the number 1 option over him. He believes he’s the best player in the league. He has an ego, and that’s not necessarily a bad thing. But he is not going to let someone else be the number one option over him, at least not in this stage in his career
The Spurs believe the sky is blue
Not really grass is green, Fox and Castle and are still both better players right now
Fox is at best the fourth best player on the team.
It’s Harrison Barnes
That’s Black Falcon to you
Uh, that’s Green Falcon.
I’d say third behind Kornet Wemby
Lmao
Kornet was a starter for so much of last season. The Vet taking the lead for the team.
Don’t matter he still is not better than fox harper of castle. I’d make an argument for vassell as well
https://youtube.com/shorts/GKkZT1o3Zp8?si=TVWBBLyEmTMjx67C
Korn on this lob
oh no my steak is too juicy and my lobster is too buttery
“I got two ice creams but I only need one” Plankton energy
This is the greatest simile of all time.
I hope they slide over their scalloped potatoes (Vassell) to us.
You’re not the first Piston fan I see who wants Vassell. He’s a really popular trade target in your fanbase for some reason
Dawg defensively and a great shot maker, also attacks the rim sometimes
I honestly don’t believe he has a source in the spurs
The only source he or anyone needs for this take is eyes lol
It may be true, but what’s not necessarily true is that the Spurs Management thinks this and will act in according to this
I was gonna say, my eyeballs told me Harper as a last shot in the finals should at least be considered
Yeah it’s just Windy blowing hot air as usual, pretty obvious take imo
Agreed.
He’s waffling. Same with McMahon.
Is he lying?
The Spurs wouldn’t say shit like that, certainly not to a reporter to disseminate.
That’s the point.
Who knows
Yes. Quite literally yes.
“Internally” means that Windhorst made it up and that’s the opinion that best fit wtv argument he’s making
Every team should be forced to post a weekly internal ranking of their players 1-5 best
yeah but honestly I still believe Dylan Harper is the 2nd best player on the Spurs. Or at the very least he will be this season
Maybe, maybe not, but this is also not really a crazy take or low likelihood.
Dylan Harper’s so fucking good.
Does he have a source anywhere? He’s a LeBron barnacle that’s trying to find a new ship to ride on
Wasn’t he the first major reporter to cover Wemby? He’s been broken apart from LeBron for a very long time now
No lol Wemby has been a prodigy for like 10 years now
Yeah I mean he found his next ship
Every team’s fanbase says this
Why wouldn’t he
Your eyes are the source
I think he does. I don’t think he’s pulling this from nowhere.
Anyone with eyes could have told you Harper was their 2nd best player after that finals run lol
Anyone follow the Spurs long enough would know Windhorst is lying his ass off right here. Nobody on the Spurs would leak out this kind of info out. The Spurs run an extremely tight ship.
He probably asked the water boy what he thought.
I instantly said “oh, shut the fuck up”
Me too. These “reporters” are whores. The Ballmer story removed all doubt. Idgaf about what any of these guys say. This is clearly a literal made up story by windy.
Like what is even the point of the organization internally asking this question to themselves?? They have a great young core and they’re all good defenders who can score pretty well too. They’re all a bit different in their specialties and positions. What’s even the point in ranking them as an organization? They’re all young and just focusing on getting better as much as they can. God windy is a clown.
Windy loves saying the most obvious thing in the world acting like it’s an inside scoop
He’s not right though. Wemby then Fox. Fox was hurt in that wolves series. I’m a Spurs fan since the 90s.
He was still a disaster in the playoffs
he was also injured heavily with a high ankle sprain
He’s always playing through some injury and so are half the playoffs. He may still come out the other side of that Finals looking good and you can always point to LOLKANGZ if you wish, but he’s a great player when he wants to turn it on who disappears for good stretches when he doesn’t. The Spurs will need to keep him content to get good Fox.
You sure that isn’t the Spurs fan in you wishfully thinking that $223 million fully guaranteed deal doesn’t blow up on you guys? I sense a little optimism bias here. Because Fox looked straight unplayable to me.
I mean if you look at the books, our cap situation doesn’t become a crunch until 2028-29 at the earliest. I figure we’ll trade him before then, or potentially make him available in an expansion draft if needed.
But I’m not really worried about the contract becoming an anchor on our future; if it comes to it, we’ll have one year (2029-30) where we’re paying Wemby, Harper, Castle and Fox all maxes and ride the second apron, and then it’ll all reset once Fox clears out, but I imagine it’ll be resolved before it comes to that.
When he said “Hes the number 2 pick in the draft, of course he’s a stud” an image of Michael Kidd Gilchrist flashed in my brain.
it feels like in the 00’s one of the top 2 picks every year either underperforms or busts
You are so right. For every KD there are 5 Marvin Bagleys.
Yeah, he’s a stud because he stepped up as a major playoff contributor as a rookie when the expectations were a lot lower, his draft position is old news
Oh dude yeah Harper is amazing, zero doubt. I was saying more about Windy conflating the second overall pick with automatically being a stud.
Idk why people are in such a rush to get Fox out the way. Neither Harper or Castle are natural playmakers, and they aren’t the surest ball handlers when they have to make a decision other than score.
Isnt fox also a score first guard? The issue is 3 of them and which would get you the most flexibility.
Bc it’s the “it” thing to talk about re the spurs. Theres no other drama/negative to say about them, besides saying Wemby is great they need a talking point to get the fans arguing and ppl keep falling for it. How is “the spurs have too many good young players” a problem 😂
And you think Fox is a good playmaker?
I think this is going to age terribly. People think the spurs timeline is wide open and are willing to wait to trade fox. I think people will look back a year from now and see it as a massive mistake.
I thinking trading a player at his lowest value after making the finals (with a team projected be a low level playoff team) when a big portion of that season’s success was a having 3 high level guards on the team is shortsighted, impatient, and moronic.
I know it’s an unpopular take, which is why I’m staying now. It would be very easy to state it when it becomes obvious. The spurs need a big wing that can shoot threes.
Tobias Harris and Carter Bryant is coming along
Even if you wanna trade him, you don’t do it fresh off the worst stretch of games in his career. That’s not good business. He still has 4 years on his deal, what’s the rush?
I think Castle is the 2nd best player but what do I know I’m just a filthy Rockets fan
I think it’s too soon to tell tbh. Harper might take another leap, be more of the same, or have a sophomore slump*, and the reactionary takes will swing wildly depending on which way he goes. Whereas Castle is more of a known quantity. But “wait and see” doesn’t generate clicks on the internet so nobody in the media is gonna say it
Last regular season, yes it is Castle. But at the tail-end of the playoffs, harper quickly ascended and took that “2nd best” label.
This season, I think, will cement harper as wemby’s no-debate 2nd option. Castle will be the very good third option.
Harper might end up being better than Flagg
Flagg will continue to get better and better, that with his size and youth will probably make him the better player.
Now if Cooper Flagg just stops improving then obviously Harper will be the better of the two.
My hot take is that VJ Edgecombe will end up being the second best player of the three, it seems stupid now but that’s what I think.
Harper’s legacy will always have a bump because he got drafted by the Spurs with Wemby and Castle.
Flagg has a higher floor with his height and build. Harper may have a higher ceiling based purely on talent and skill. Watch the Thinking Basketball episode on Harper, he is unbelievable at finishing and so polished. If Flagg can be better than or as good as Tatum, Harper can be as good as Kobe/DWade, he is that good
Flagg is the closest thing to Lebron I’ve seen as a rookie. I dunno where “low ceiling” narratives come from. He is the same age as Dybantsa etc lol. I would be disappointed if he was just as good as Tatum (not MVP level).
Flagg is completely different from Lebron as a rookie. Lebron came into the league as a tall ballhandler who could get to the rim easily and had outlier athleticism. Flagg’s ball handling is sus and his athleticism is good but not an outlier.
I think it’s still castle than Harper, at least in what we’ve actually seen so far (like maybe development has changed that order).
Castle has had more attention and responsibility on offense (the lead point guard half the time), while also pretty much shutting down Shai in the conference finals.He’s their second best defender, and Harper isn’t clearly better on offense.
I think Castle has the higher floor. Castle can have 8 turnovers and still be great in a game. But Harper to me has the higher ceiling as the more unstoppable player. But they’re both so young, so let’s see how this plays out.
Opposite brotherman, Harper has a way higher ceiling.
Did they edit their comment… That’s what they said..?
I’m a dumbass
Harper is the sort of player you plan a rebuild around. That’s not true for Fox or Castle
r/notsounpopularopinion
he looks like a vet out there and this is probably his floor, with lots of room for improvement
I mean we have to see how Harper handles top defenders and double teams/blitzes before I would put him 2nd best player on the team. He was often guarded by Mike Conley when we played them.
So you’re telling me the Spurs are deep in guards.
Windy just yapping at this point
How did the Spurs get so many super high draft picks for these guys anyway? Aren’t they always good?
We were mediocre post Kawhi with the DeRozan, Murray, White teams for a few seasons then we traded them all and tanked for Wemby, then tanked again getting Castle at 4, and then Wemby got blood clots halfway through year 2 and we got lucky our pick rose to 2 for Harper
Another fifth pick for the Detroit pistons 🔥🔥💯💯
They tanked hard. This sub will tell you they didn’t but they had cap space a few years ago and decided to let the young guys play and not use it effectively. A lot of those young guys like sochan are not with the team anymore lmao
Anyone saying we weren’t tanking when we were running Sochan out there at PG is being disingenuous lol
Hey hey hey, that’s knick’s legend and nba champ sochan!!
Finally an objective spurs fan lol
The Spurs landed the #2 pick in 2025 which they used to draft Dylan Harper. They had just a 30% chance of landing a top 4 pick that year and got pretty lucky to get #2.
But the Spurs good luck at getting the #2 pick flew under the radar because of the #1 pick that went to the Mavs. The Mavs had a less than 2% chance to get the #1 pick, which everyone knew would be Cooper Flagg. They get an absurdly lucky #1 draft pick in the same year they just traded Luka to the Lakers… curious.
I hate this conspiracy because it just doesn’t make any sense from a motivation standpoint. The NBA exists to serve its owners and there’s no reason why the other owners would prefer to give the Lakers Luka and give the #1 pick to the Mavs as opposed to just getting the #1 pick themselves. There’s like no evidence that the Lakers getting Luka would or has resulted in some resurgence in league popularity that floated all boats. No explanation for how they could rig the draft when we literally all see the balls being drawn on live TV, and how literally no one that would have to be involved to rig it has said anything
yeah the draft is audited pretty thoroughly afaik and every team can send people to watch it happen in person
and on top of everything else you said, the mavs wouldn’t have even had a chance at flagg if they’d made the playoffs, which largely hinged on kyrie and AD both getting significant injuries, and would also imply that the mavs players threw the play-in game on purpose.
Was Kyrie’s ACL and AD’s groin and quadriceps in on the conspiracy? 🤔 I’m just asking questions
the lakers got sold that summer. its a more attractive purchase if you have a superstar player locked up. as you said, league exists to serve its owners.
Why would the other owners care about the Lakers selling for more if the valuation was purely driven by Luka being on the team? The Lakers being worth more that summer because they got a star player doesn’t make their teams more valuable, and it certainly doesn’t improve their value more than potentially drafting a generational prospect like Flagg.
yeah imagine you’re an owner of a legitimately tanking team and Silver goes “hey just FYI you have a 0% chance at the top pick in a a stacked draft because we need to put Luka in LA”
like why would you agree to that?
I’m not saying there is a conspiracy, but even just that same season, viewership and engagement went up league wide post trade after it being a down year according to the data. It was not uncommon for people to say the trade ‘saved’ the nba that season. And the modern league was built in no small part to the lakers being extremely popular and successful in the 80’s. Lakers nights are often the biggest stadium nights of the year at opposing teams arenas with lakers fans often out numbering the home team. So that part does make sense to me. And it should be remembered that most owners don’t really care about their teams beyond them being an asset. And I would argue that even the ones that love the team and sport will always default to it being an asset considering that it’s billions of dollars on the line. I mean the trade only happened because mark cuban, wildly thought to be the owner most like a true fan, sold the Mavs because the economics were too good.
The motivation would clearly be to keep a flagship franchise relevant (in the case of the Lakers) and to give a GoAT candidate support so they can make a legit dynasty.
The NBA loves its dynasties.
Certainly there wouldn’t be any need to let the owners know what was happening if Silver (or whoever) decided to rig it.
Magnetic paint on the balls is one of probably many ways to rig it.
I think you don’t understand how the NBA works. It’s not an company that is independent of its team owners/governors with its own owners/shareholders and independent valuation. Silver’s employers are the team owners and governors so he has no incentive to do something that the majority of the team owners would not want, and there’s no reason to think that rigging the draft in some roundabout scheme to help the Lakers and LeBron would be more beneficial to most teams than it would be for them to have a chance to land a generational prospect.
that draft lottery pissed me off so much. utah and wizards should’ve had those top 2 spots, had to go through another year of torture but thankfully silver righted his wrong next year
Way less than a 2% chance the NBA risks doing that considering the catastrophic consequences if it were to be found out. It’s just not with that risk.
People will say “absurdly lucky” and it turns out they’re talking about the odds of boxcars.
We get really lucky the years we tank, is all I’ll say.
That’s all there is to say anyways
Call it good karma for being so competitive for so long. It’s nice to see winning organizations hit big. Imagine if Wemby had to play for the wizards or some other bottom feeder
I mean to be fair the reason those teams are bottom feeders is because they didn’t hit the number one pick on Duncan/wemby. Luck has shaped a lot of narrative
What about the Pelicans. AD and Zion both horribly mismanaged. Mavs with Luka? Other teams get #1 picks all the time, some even turn out to be truly special. Spurs are easily on the shortlist for places I’d want to personally be drafted if I were a #1 pick.
Warriors lucked into Steph Curry but also we lucked into Jerry West. It’s no surprise we started trending back towards poverty franchise after West left
Its the good Karma from Pop running a good org (Bruce Bowen aside), and the voodoo of Churro and Texas BBQ/Texmex/Riverwalk.
Honestly, they got so damn lucky in draft, and their scout department is legit good, consider how many top level player they drafted (Manu, Parker, Diaw, Harper, Castle, Kwahi that is NOT in top 5 picks)
hard tanking when they know they suck + insane lotto odds
they stopped being consistently good once Kawhi dipped. Demar brought them out of playoff contention after 22 years. then dejounte ran the team for a year but they moved him and D white to the East to properly tank.
keldon johnson first option hoops is like guaranteed top 4 pick but it was pretty obvious he was gonna end up a Spur. there’s no way the league is putting him in charlotte, detroit, or portland. they got 4th in 2024 draft after 22 wins again. but rockets were dumb to not get Reed over Castle.
then 2025 they won 34 games, good enough for 12th in the West but “surprisingly” jumped all the way to 2. now they got Dylan Harper off the bench in a team that’s grown to a contender when he should prolly be putting up 17 ppg in Brooklyn (or DC….)
They are the most tanking franchise in nba history. If they can’t compete for a title immediately, they tank. It’s always been their philosophy.
It also helps that they’ve went 3⁄3 with generational bigs when they had first pick. That helps you a lot whej building a team.
So like three times in the last thirty years?
The Process in Philly took more actual seasons of tanking that San Antonio engaged in the last 30 years
This is an absurd and ridiculous comment, regardless of how much you hate the Spurs. We made the playoffs for 20 years in a row through 2019 lol. When the hell exactly were we getting in the most tanking seasons in “NBA history”?
Thats definitely the philadelphia fixers. They are just not good at using their picks
There’s gotta be some rigging to some degree in the league. Wemby, Castle, then Harper for the Spurs? Luka trade in the first place, then Dallas getting compensated in the form of Flagg? Seems too coincidental
Why would the league rig it for the spurs lol
Pop was still there when he got drafted, it’s in the league’s best interest for a generational talent to go to a consistently competent org
Found the flat earther
Idc what people say, almost any other HC in the NBA would have beat the Knicks with that Spurs team.
Up 20+ points in the 4th quarter and you let your team jack up 3’s within 6-8 seconds of the shot clock?
Spurs would have won in 5-6 games if they had another HC in charge.
Spurs blew 2 games in the 4th up 20+ points.
HOLDING THE DAMN BALL would have been a better strategy while taking the shot clock violation. Lmao
Yea, wemby and fox each had a bad blunder, but coach fd up more. Call timeout, say stop chucking 3s, win title.
This is why Spurs brought in Billy Donovan. To clean up the offense.
Lmao, I got news for you man…
Give kd the ball and hope for the best, the good old Billy Donovan special
Would any other HC have taken the spurs to the finals? I don’t want to overrate the coachs role in a team but most ppl didn’t have spurs making the playoffs (top 6) and literally no one had the spurs even making to the fucking finals. They blew the leads bc they’re a young team, they were the second youngest team ever in the finals
Any other coach would had beat OKC in 6 games with how injured they were.
Mitch doesn’t know when to call timeouts or call out his players on what NOT to do.
Mitch has 2 yrs to get a chip. Steve Kerr has 2 yr extension. Kerr will have more rings than anyone EVER when he becomes THE Spurs HC. Mark. This . Down.
There’s a saying we have in New York that I think applies perfectly to what you said. “Everyone is better than Jalen Brunson until it’s time to be better than Jalen Brunson.”
Mitch was never expected to tackle the Finals in his first playoffs. It was a long-term bet that wound up being suboptimal in the moment
Hopefully it’ll be like mazoula growing pains but I don’t think Mitch is as smart lol so I doubt it
Ah yes - sow those seeds of dissent early
Confirmed. Spurs front office has eyes like the Spurs coyote
Bryan seems a bit horny here
Harper is worthy of building a team around in his own right.
No way an organization this good is the last to know this.
Why do people keep believing and posting these Windy opinions? I’m sure there are some super high on one over the other, but to pretend there’s some massive consensus is stupid
Windy is a clickbait guy looking for headlines a lot of times. Honestly shocked he didn’t find a way to bring LeBron into this somehow
All of the on/off data would agree with what Windy is saying. Every nba front office is using these types of metrics too.
I prefer his basketball analysis to Steven A Smith, I’ll say that much. I can’t stand his howdy partner on his podcast thoughm
I don’t like both
PSA: Windy has no sources in the spurs org
“He’s the #2 pick in the draft, of course he’s a stud.”
Cries in Hasheem Thabeet
Spurs fell into ungodly draft luck for the third year straight landing on this kid. Harper should be the first option on a rebuilding Nets/Kings/Wizards right now
“Ungodly”
3 years in the lottery prior without moving up.
Then equal 1st odds - picked first.
4th odds - pick 4th.
Then combined 5th odds (including the Atlanta unprotected odds) - moved up to 2nd.
The Spurs timed their full tank for the Wemby draft, and only moved up once in 6 straight drafts in the lottery. Obviously that was lucky, but moving from 5th to 2nd in 1 out of 6 drafts is far from “ungodly” luck.
And there have been plenty of other teams with multiple top 4 picks in a row.
Beyond that, the spurs got Harper because Wemby missed a year due to injury. Nobody would choose that over Wemby staying healthy.
It’s worked so far because that hasn’t turned into a perpetual injury, and we got lucky in the lottery, but it’s not just a handout from the NBA.
You’ve never moved down in the lottery. You can just admit you’ve had lots of draft luck, it’s not bad.
gets shown how it’s all within logical odds
‘you have lots of draft luuuck’
having some draft luck is not the same as having ungodly draft luck
We had luck last year. I have already said that. And of course getting Wemby was luck.
But staying still is not “ungodly luck”
Spurs just pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and worked hard for their lottery results, everyone else is just lazy
what you’ve just described is ungodly luck, i don’t know why spurs fans are so against admitting that they got lucky lol
How is moving up from 5th odds to 2, in 1 out of 6 years, “ungodly luck”.
You guys moved up more places in the Bargnani draft.
I am not saying the Spurs weren’t lucky. I am saying that people vastly overstate it compared to what actually happened.
landing the 1st pick for a generational prospect, landing the 4th pick, and then moving up from 5th odds to 2nd all in back to back to back years is ungodly luck
just because you guys had the odds to land 1st/4th doesn’t mean you weren’t lucky by still landing there. never moving down is luck in itself, so many teams have had those same odds or better and still move down
Not during multiple high prospect drafts. It would be like CLE landing Lebron and then Chris Paul
I don’t know how many times I can say this, but the Spurs tank was timed for the Wemby draft. They gradually moved on every good vet to bottom out in time for that draft. Sure, 75% chance you don’t get him, but they had been closely watching him for years and made sure to have the best chance they could.
Lol at calling ‘24 a “high prospect” draft. Even though they’d been, apparently, at every UConn practice that year, personally I don’t think Castle was top of the board, and a Spurs reporter later said the team were hoping for Shephard - but thet still picked 4th in a horrible draft.
Harper was lucky, but not “ungodly” when only moving up from 5th best odds to pick 2.
You decided to tank half way through the year after Wemby got hurt and got the best possible result outside of landing Coop himself. But sure, ig thats just being “smart”
Be that as it may, they need to give the guy another season otherwise people will start calling him overrated once/if he hits the rookie wall. Hell, opposing teams haven’t even started planning the defensive strats against him.
But who do they believe externally is their second best player?
Ron be proud
Breaking news, the Spurs believe their second best player is indeed their second best player.
Duh
I think he’s the third option for offense but the best POA defender outside of wemby so yeah he could be slightly more valuable than castle.
Windy is so full of shit I can’t believe he gets paid to do this job
I think he’s their second best player, too.
none of this matters lol who cares
Exactly. It’s a team game. What’s the necessity of ‘ranking your players’ dumb
Who cares who the second best player Is? Or even who the first is. It’s a team game and they’re all coming back next year. Bizarre comments.
how many petitions are required for this guy to shut the fuck up - tired of seeing his multiple gelatinous chins throw speculative slander everywhere
He is an NBA guy. Pretty sure he’s like us just waiting for the season to start.
I get that - is the insidiousness he creates that leads to people boooing Fox during their own scrimmage (but that’s like my opinion, man)
I externally believe Dylan Harper is their second best player.
Only Fox himself with a burner account would defend his performance.
Them and everyone else
This is obviously correct
Seeing Tobias grinning loser face here just made me spit take. He is so out of place
Castle is a dog let ot ride out for a minute. But Harper is a dog 🤣
De’Aaron Fox deserves to be slighted lol
I wholeheartedly believe ESPN media purely exist just to plant seeds of drama in sports just to report on it later….
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