Kat winning a ring while jimmy doesn’t have one will never not be funny

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I already have my chair set up.

KAT is better and more valuable than Chet.

Yeah exactly. Meanwhile every team in the league (save the spurs) would sign Chet to that same contract.

Chet has almost the same contract as Austin Reaves while being 4 years younger and being second in DPOY and making all-NBA 3rd team last year. One bad playoff series has really made people forget how good Chet is

Chet is indeed overpaid

Tbf, they’re already overpaying. He’s paid like he’s a top 10 player when he’s absolutely not. The fact that he wants to be paid like an MVP candidate is crazy. Their offer values him as a top 25 player which is completely fair, although I think that going up to $55m AAV would still be fine.

Exactly. In a vacuum he should be paid in proportion to his production. But in terms of value to the team in terms of fit and what they’ve achieved he should be rewarded. The dude helped to bring NYC a title and was in and out of talks for finals MVP for Knicks sake.

Why? What is the reason for rewarding a player for past achievements?

There’s a middle ground between 50 and 70. Hell maybe 55 would get it done.

It’s never the right move to throw away resources especially tying them up in a long term contract. How many times has this absolutely fucked teams for like a decade. If they don’t think he’s worth it they absolutely should move on

Now that’s true but Murray was almost as important as Jokic during that run.

Murray had a much better championship run than KAT

problem is the rewarding is reserved for brunson and kats contract timing sucks

And KAT isn’t a shitty person

screw your team financing for moral reasons? that won’t keep a GM’s job brother

The right thing to do will always be what is best for the team going forward

Especially with the harsher restrictions on the second apron teams have to be more selective in the money they spend.

I love KAT but I don’t want the Knicks to be paying him just because he won a championship with them. If they don’t think he’s the right guy on the right money for the next window then it is what it is

What in the gamblers logic. So basically youre saying that every contract should be written with a crystal ball.

Doubly so given KAT just had the highest plus minus playoff run in nba history

The second apron shot them in the foot. The only way to keep the team together is for guys to take lower deals. This is the way the CBA was designed, to eliminate sustained excellence and increase parity.

Yea like I can get not wanting to give him more but asking him to take a paycut? And of almost 25% Of his current? That is too much. My floor would be $51mil AAVE (the middle of his current and what they want.

KAT is not a guy you want to be paying 70 million a year for.

He also has a unique skillset and is an immensely useful playoffs mismatch when he’s locked in. They’re kind of in a pickle here, the idea was always ring or bust but under the current CBA it’s more like ring AND bust

knicks are allowed to do that to a CAA client because they’re run by godfather. surprised it even leaked.

Except he’s 31 and the entire league has just decided you can’t win paying two guys supermax money and taking on anybody that isn’t a top-10 player at that is untenable. How many season tickets is KAT selling outside of NY?

There aren’t going to be suitors banging down the Knicks’ door to pay him that much. Players are just going to have to adjust to the idea that just because you’re a top-30 player doesn’t mean you automatically make supermax money if you’re eligible.

Not really. If some other team is going to pay him 65+ million then good luck. I think Dolan knows he’s bidding against himself at that price. Just last year people were saying he was overpaid at his CURRENT salary.

Just saying shit

They will get it done, they will be fine

He’s eligible for 69m AAV

No team is going to get him anywhere close to that number so that’s pretty much a non-starter.

yup. Like he just helped won us our first championship in over 50 years, and we offer him less than he’s making now?? What tf do they expect he would react like?

The Knicks are straight up assholes here. I thought the whole point of Jalen taking the contract he did was so they could spend on someone like Kat. Nope. They want Kat to take a pay cut too. They are just assholes.

Gosh FINE we’ll take him back….BEGRUDGINGLY

Not here to knock on my boy KAT, but saying he has a godly playoff run when his numbers were down to 15 10. He was amazing don’t get me wrong and played a huge part in the ring. He was solid and played his part perfectly. But godly playoff run avg ¹⁵⁄₁₀?

That’s actually an incredibly fair deal. It only sounds bad because it’s a pay cut, but that’s because he’s currently overpaid. He’s paid as if he’s a top 10 player when he’s absolutely not and he’s asking to be paid like an MVP candidate, which would be insane. The offer would pay him like a top 25 player, which is what he is. Throwing out cash to overpay guys just for the hell of it is over with the new CBA.

You can’t pay an entire championship team like the Knicks “what they’re worth”. Concessions need to be make somewhere, it’s part of having a salary cap and why true dynasties are so rare.

no it’s not. Brunson is making 40 mil the next two years. KAT needs to get in line or else he isn’t serious about winning. It’s totally selfish of him when the team captain took a famous pay cut.

While true, negotiating with a “while we recognize you were really fucking good last year, we expect you to be shittier going forward so here’s our new offer” isn’t going to endear you to any players.

Not to mention 30 vs 22 years old.

Any idea how much of a gap?

Jalen Duren the fakest all nba player ever. Hes not even a top 40 player and KAT a top 20 player. Duren skillset is limited asf. Stop using weird framing

He would just opt out

I don’t think they will, so they can try and go back to back

Plus teams trading for him can just sign him in the offseason if they have capspace next year

WHY can’t they lose him for nothing?

One more year to defend the title, instead of paying him a number that they think will hamstring their future or trading him for a combo of mid players and picks?

When did we all decide that having a player walk is somehow bad? And when did we start to treat 1 full season left on a contract as if its expired?

KD walked and OKC has never been better.

The pelicans traded AD, the Jazz traded Gobert and Mitchell, the Mavs traded Luka. Portland traded Dame. The Bucks traded Giannis. The nets traded everybody worthwhile. Which of those teams are better off because of it, or think will be better off because of it?

Also - you’re only RISKING losing him for nothing. Hes a free agent and can resign. But if that number is something the Knicks don’t want, what did they even lose?

Completely disagree. The 2027 season matters so much more for the Knicks than any season afterwards that I’d genuinely rather have KAT & try to repeat in 2027 than trade him for a package that’s harder to win with in 2027 but cheaper.

An extension will ultimately get done, however. Deuce or Hart (probably Deuce) will be traded elsewhere to make room.

I mean, if you just helped win a title for your team, would you take $15 mil less a year than what you were already making?

Isnt it dumb for an organization to be ran in a way where the employees are told “meet these requirements and you are eligible for this money” and then the employee meets that requirement, and the fans are like, “why are they taking all that money?” When it should be asked, “why are players offered X money for their good play, but then if they take X money, their team success goes down and fans dont like them? Like what kind of weird situation are we putting players in for playing well?”

They are offering KAT less money than he makes now. Cap is higher than when he signed his previous deal by a fair amount AND he’s coming off of a championship that wouldn’t not have been won without him.

Him not wanting to take a pay cut is very logical.

That’s because there is a cap which is designed to benefit owners. The apron stuff was designed to fuck up the Supermax contracts.

It’s really not stupidity on KATs part and more greed on the Knicks side. If KAT gets a 3 or 4 year extension starting next season, the Knicks can go into the second apron for two consequetive years without any penalties.

Since the Knicks became real contenders after the KAT trade, that would mean they had a five year window. Given that they made the conference finals twice and won a ring, it’s fair to say that they might win another ring over those next three years.

Under the current salary rules, teams aren’t meant to stay together forever. We saw that with the Celtics after their ring. But the trade difficulties that come with the second apron only lower the price of players when you sell them. And the far future of a franchise isn’t something players need or should worry about.

You assume the players give A fuck about their teammates wallets

The Knicks could “gut the team” to pay KAT. Orrrr, they could just pony up the cash and go into the second apron. It’s not like the Knicks haven’t already proven that they can win a championship

You’re saying it’s stupid for one man want more money. Because there will be less money available for the next man?

What if I say fuck the next man? Leave that stuff to the GM to figure out. My responsibility is to acquire the best contract for me. Because only me pays my bills.

You mean the PR team made him. He at first doubled down on the comment.

Edit: And PR is not Puerto Rico, thanks smartasses lol

He’s literally one of the only centers/beings on the planet with a skill set that can counter Wemby

Good thing you’re not the Knicks.

True. They are not winning another. Another contender will gladly pay bro $60M

AD is getting 63m and he don’t even play

I just don’t understand the greed of the super rich, dude has made $291.18 million by the age of 30 in salary alone, I will never understand being that rich for playing the game I love for a City that now adores me, and thinking not only do I morally deserve that money, but I deserve it so much my team mates will have to sacrifice their earnings and achievements to make it happen. NBA owners, pretty much anyone that rich is probably a piece of shit and but when both parties are that rich, but the sacrifice of the player to avoid the dumb financial rules ensures other team mates get paid, the team is set up to successful long term which always has to be a part of the owners plans and neither party is going to actually miss or need that extra bit of money, but lesser paid guys, the fans, they will feel it when they’re stuck watching another decades long route of heartbreak before they might get to see their beloved team win again, or if you’re a Kings fan, even MAKE the playoffs.

imo, i think there’s a discount. definitely. But the knicks super low-balled him.

 

He can get 4yr/\(272 - \)276

I think he expected around $250.

Sacrificing initial money (\(61 million next season goes down to around \)55 million, making the overall contract start scaling up lower).

 

Max is

$57 this year

$61 next under year 1 new deal

$66 next year 2

$71 year 3 (age 33)

$76 year 4 (age 34)

 

imo, Towns probably expected something like

$57 this year (current deal)

$55 next season year 1 (6 million reduction)

$59 following year 2 (7 million saved)

$63 year 3 (8 million saved)

$68 year 4 (8 million saved).

 

From \(275 million to \)240-250 million contract.

Just like OG took a cut

His hometown is in New Jersey

I love Kat but he’s not a top 15 player and had a great playoff run for us but it would legit gut the team to extend him, and without Mitch it’s going to be harder to invest that money into a center who rarely defends outside of 1 playoff run

He’s in no way a clear top 15 player. He’s maybe like 14 - 16 at best, that’s not at undeniable level.

There is little incentive or need for the Knicks to immediately extend KAT since he’s already under contract for 35% of the cap this year and next.

KAT will be age 33 to 36 when his extensions kicks in 2029. With the current restrictive CBA tying up 35% to an AGING player who’s only made ONE all-NBA team (3rd) in the past 4 seasons and only 3 total in his 11 year career doesn’t sound like a great idea.

As for Jaylen, the 76ers should likewise refrain from extending him since he’s under contract for 2+ years. And they should definitely not do so, if he’s asking for the max extension,

Don’t forget Boban Marjanovic

It’s less about stopping him on offense and more about changing his defense. Where Kat is most useful as a counter to wemby is when he pulls him out of the paint because Kat is actually a three point threat. Not many other bigs have that in their game, its the same reason jokic also does well in the match up.

Unless the Spurs get a big mobile PF who is great defensively (like a Giannis which let’s be real don’t grow on trees), it won’t matter how good Wemby gets because KAT’s presence forces Wemby out of the paint and onto the perimeter.

You want big market teams to buy a title? Or do you want small markets to compete. Pick your poison

Hard salary cap is good for the NBA and parity, that’s the issue here not the owners.

The players as a whole get the same $ no matter what. It cannot exceed 51% of revenue. Going over the cap to sign a player only changes who’s pockets that revenue split falls into on each side. One owner is paying the others for the right to give their players a bigger piece of their pre-negotiated pie.

The tax does not impact overall player salaries.

I mean there is a spending floor in the CBA. I also think a hard cap is good for the sport, and two players making 70% is not.

Brunson did take a max. It’s just a smaller max because it was from earlier in his career than where KAT is at. A max can be anywhere from 25% to 35% depending on career length and accolades.

He probably deserves it over KAT sure. But your second point is kind of everything right? He can ask for it and probably “deserves it”, but it’s just making it harder for them to win again. Is max money more important than winning? I have a feeling no NBA player would be willing to publicly admit that.

He isn’t worth it, that’s the whole point.

A 35% max is for a franchise player - a clear number 1 on the team that can lead your team to the championship. You win nothing with KAT as your best player. You need a great supporting cast and that’s not possible with the salary cap.

Only like 5 players in the NBA are actually worthy of such a contract and should earn that much and I go even further and say nobody over 30 should get an offer like that - at least not a 5 year offer.

Being over the second apron has more than just financial penalties. They are limited with trades and picks are affected.

Lol

The max is likely too much for KAT, but I could see the Pistons making an offer for sure if it’s there

for at least a year or two i really don’t know think the team building restrictions are as restrictive as people make it out to be. You already have your title team, you can and should run it back, you don’t need to utilize those things that are no longer accessible to you because you’ve built your title team. Once those draft pick penalties come into play that i understand why you’d want to start avoiding those, but for situations like the current knicks i really don’t see why these team building restrictions come into play

This was pushed by the owners though, as a way to move toward a hard cap in order to create excuses to pay less

Owners can’t complain one bit about the 2nd apron restrictions

I see both sides. But if you want to win, you can sacrifice a bit of money. Look how much press they got, brunson took a cut, it will serve them in the long run. As a 9-5 regular guy, I was underpaid for years to build trust with the company, now I’m a manager and make a fair wage, and don’t have to deal with “begin the new guy, I have seniority, etc) some would argue this was dumb, bit I think there is value in doing things to make the team better. I had a great boss who I know was doing right by me, I just knew they were busy with COVID at the time and didn’t want to add additional stress on their plate. It’s all to say, people take pay cuts all the time for long term gain.

the CBA implications don’t really get bad into the 3rd/4th year. There are other ways around it.

The over the tax teams can still trade. They just can’t combine salary. Also, they can combine salary if the trade overall gets them under the tax.

The aprons have to go in 2030.

Why ? They are doing their job..

Front offices have realized they can’t give out maxes for anyone but the top 10-15 guys in the league, and no team can really get away with giving out multiple of them for any extended period of time,

As it should be. Though there’s a difference between 25% maxes and 35% maxes. teams can get away with 25% maxes or 30% maxes. But multiple 35% maxes really do a number on your cap.

These restrictions are designed by owners in order to spend less. The tax and restrictions are owner issues

no , it is that case. They have just won the PR battle.

i hope the next cba gets rid of the cap altogether. clearly there is an appetite for that after ballmergate. stop all of this free helicopter ride, scoring billboard nonsense and just give these players the hard cash.

And who is it that pushed the new CBA and second apron? Cheap ass owners who wanted this excuse to not have to pay players

Cheap owners pushed for these new cap rules because they didn’t like being pressured to pay to win. They wanted an excuse to say “oops can’t pay the tax, gotta cut salary” and push players to take large pay cuts for the sake of team building. The fans buy it hook line and sinker and turned in any young player trying to get paid

He just helped a team win a ring for the first time in like 50 years and was tasked with guarding a generational talent in Wemby. Without his defense and floor spacing they don’t win a title. He’s earned every penny of that contract.

Dolan can sell one of his yachts or maybe forgo paying a state senator for tax breaks this year and use some of that cash instead to pay a guy who just added several billion in value to his sports team

The Knicks offer is also at \(50M/year and Duren signed for \)40M/year, so the comparison doesn’t really make sense.

One won them a championship while the other was unplayable in the playoffs.

I see your overall point though.

brunson’s next deal is gonna be huge, no argument. kat’s already on 57.1 this year to brunson’s 37.7 though, he’s been getting first option money as the second option

They’re gonna have to pull cap magic to keep this crew together because if you give KAT that money the immediate question becomes, what about Josh Hart, what about Deuce, what about Mikal

The rules are designed to squeeze teams for success

Warriors aren’t good enough on the side with KAT. They need more than that

This. Brunson took the max he could get AT THE TIME. Huge difference.

Like it’s getting frustrating atp 😭

what will probably derail their chance is not having picture perfect health luck with every vital in-their-prime player on the roster for a second straight year, not money drama.

kat isn’t rolling up to jalen brunson’s locker room huffing and puffing about money. he knows it’s a business - when the basketball starts, he’ll let his side handle that.

You wish you got compensated below the market rate for your labor?

Mission accomplished

Its such a basic question. Sports fans are just pussy

“Unless you guys think I have something else to prove” is what I thought was odd. The reporters aren’t signing his contract

No it’s a platform for KAT to directly say that without him bringing it up on his own accord. I get his frustration but it feels weird to go after the reporter.

It’s their job to ask questions that provoke headline responses like this. Clearly it worked cause look at all of us in here discussing it now

A player who is in the news the last couple days because of his contract negotiations got asked about his contract negotiations.

I swear reporters aren’t allowed to ask anything according to you guys.

This is the equivalent of being angry at the McDonalds employee because the ice cream machine isn’t working.

Knicks will be well above the cap, do you think the reporter is trying to get KAT to take a deal for the sake of the owner lol? Towns can ask for whatever he thinks he deserves but that means there’s less money to spend elsewhere.

I don’t think the hundred millionaires need you to be offended for them

He could take a discount to try to keep the team more competitive. “Having the opportunity to win another championship is the only reward I need”

Of course it’s the Post.

Another case of overbearing NYC media creating national headlines.

I mean the second half of the finals was littered with stupid fouls…he’s a solid player and someone will pay him if we don’t

Yeah but thats literally every interview and theyre forced to have to be available for it. You do what youre suggesting and then Karl just ends up becoming the next Marshawn Lynch

Do you think those are the only two options?

This is like yelling at the cashier because your peanuts are more expensive this week.

You right, I mathed wrong. But the point still stands, given KAT just said “I’m willing to take less if it’s to keep the core” but they aren’t committing to keeping the core

It is disrespectful if you see yourself as the 2nd or 3rd best Center in the league and a max player.

You’re the only person I’ve ever seen write it as ⁴⁰⁄₅. You’re basically implying that you don’t think people can figure out how many times 40 goes into 200

His contract isn’t that bad. It’ll be 36M in 2027 so they will probably try to trade him if he sucks again.

He’s 22 with an All NBA. 40/year is hardly a bad contract for Duren, especially in a few years when the league cap expands to a point again

KAT’s value travels better. Which is not saying he;’s the better player.

Lol, Brunson is the Knicks captain and franchise player. He isn’t going anywhere. He’ll retire a Knick

Merci, Your username feels nicely apt for what I was talking about. Not quite Oligarchs but crass, greedy, grubby hoarding of wealth and already having so much money you wouldn’t notice if someone somehow stole enough to make them rich until they die of old age with enough left over to last until your bloodline runs out or we destroy ourselves in nuclear Armageddon. My moneys on the latter happening first as it happens.

Unless that was sarcastic in which cause my autism really is out in full force this evening

Yeah I agree that KAT has a very unique skillset very few big men can replicate in the league.

But I just value OG’s consistent and elite two-way ability even more. A lockdown defender that can guard 1-5 and showed in the playoffs he has a bit more scoring/shot creation juice when given the opportunity.

If KAT were to walk, the Knicks would probably have to replace his production through multiple roster moves. Probably wouldn’t be able to replace it in one player.

I love KAT but over the course of a season, he’s a top-tier #3 or a low-tier#2. He’s not consistent enough nor aggressive enough to be a winning #2. Imo.

Get ready to learn second apron, buddy

Well Mikal is already under contract, so he shouldn’t be a concern.

Personally, I’m not even concerned about Hart. He gonna take a pay cut. Hard to see him not doing that.

As for KAT, OG, and JB. I would love to extend all of them…but really dont think it’s gonna be feasible at numbers they all want (and Brunson isnt taking a second paycut).

Production or skillset wise?

Found KAT’s burner

How exactly is Kat harder to replace than Brunson?

He brings a unique skillset with his shooting and rebounding…but I’d argue it’s easier to find his replacement than OG’s.

To be fair you don’t win a championship without any of those 3

OG was arguably more important to that championship than KAT was

Yup Kat set the ton early for the Knicks. Top 3 reason Knicks won that series

Sure, but if you’re bound by the second apron, I don’t know if you can pay $60m for a guy who was your third-best player in the playoffs.

It’s no shade on KAT, but in the second-apron era you can’t pay guys who aren’t top ten in the league vet max money - and top-ten might even be stretching it!

knicks also don’t win championship without OG, that tip in game winner was ridiculous and momentum shifting. Fox became a shell of himself (even more so) after that loss and it seemed inevitable for Knicks to end series quickly

You don’t win a championahip without probably any one of 6 Knicks to players be honest

Very true. But we also don’t win without OG…and he was arguably our 2nd best player the entire playoffs.

If had I to choose between paying either one of two, it’s gonna be OG everytime. He just more important to our offense and defense.

Not sure what our options are at PF to replace OG tho. And he’s harder to replace than KAT (and younger).

I think we can make do without KAT going forward…I can’t say the same about OG. Hes much more important to the teams

Agreed. Could say the same for OG tho.

Overall, I simply value OG’s elite two-way ability over KAT.