It’s similar to how people say Brady didn’t have an elite arm which is true, compared to guys like Rodgers Farve Elway etc he didnt but he still had a very very very good arm, Kobe was definitely super physically gifted but a notch below the truly elite Athletes like Lebron Jordan Vince Carter etc

Good defender too. Just a numbnuts

Hell yeah. Young me was a Kobe fan while the Pistons were horrible. Saw him do a 360 in The Palace while the Lakers won by like 30. I levitated.

JR and Gerald Green had the talent to do anything on the court but they didn’t have the mindset to do it consistently

“Don’t look at my hands!” he could often be heard shouting mid 360

I think what Kwame is saying is that in a league full of athletic freaks kobe was the average nba athlete. He doesn’t have the athleticism of vince, mj, or lebron. With that being said kobe has a 38 inch vert which is still very athletic it just doesn’t stand out in the nba.

To make it into the NBA you’d need to be hyper athletic, unless you’re there for your size. There’s so many bench players who has become dunk champs. Just because you can do 360 dunks doesn’t mean you’re an all star caliber player.

Phil Jackson made the same comments about Kobe in his book and said his work ethic is what set him apart. he is unequivocally less athletic than Jordan and Lebron.

I imagine the main who coached most of his career would know better, but that’s just me.

He had the best, most consistent 360 dunks.

Tbf in the NBA a lot of average and bad NBA players are actual athletic freaks that don’t have a lot of basketball talent but on a pure athleticism scale they’re insane compared to Kobe being bigger, faster, stronger etc so I kinda see where Kwame is coming from

He’s just saying physically, stature and such. I don’t think it was said as an insult but rather he didn’t have some freak qualities like Kahwi or Jordan.

its not a hard dunk to pull off for an nba wing

Wish players would still try that

I love J.R. Smith but he’s the type of player who shouldn’t even be nominated to a single all star team. He is the GOAT of that archetype but still

Bro I know guys that didn’t make the NBA doing 360 dunks in games.

Kobe is not MJ or Vince Carter

I mean being able to do sick dunks doesn’t qualify you higher than a 6th man

McClung is multi dunk contest champ but he can’t even get a NBA roster spot

But he was really dumb

If only he had the intelligence level of a kobe

I love this comparison because this is the exact same comparison I would make 15-20 years ago and I never see people make it.

JR Smith is basically Kobe without the work ethic. He could have been Kobe if he worked his ass off.

Average sixth man as far as physical traits.

JR the 2k8 god

Kobe, like, won the Dunk Contest too.

I feel like people compare his athletic ability to MJ only

Kobe also won the dunk contest…

Kwame meant Kobe was not physically gifted or freakishly athletic. But what made Kobe great was his work ethic to improve his skills above everybody else.

I think he meant body type/attributes no?

The zenmaster said the biggest difference between him and jordan was their hands. MJ had mittens and could do a lot with the ball bc of that, palm it easily, dunk it.

But otherwise their skills were nearly identical as far as physical gifts. Kobe was 6’6 just like MJ, same wingspan, same vertical, silky smooth jumpshot, jordan was probably stronger lower body and had a quicker first step.

Saying kobe was pedestrian is ludicrous.

kobe was 6’6 any 6’6 moderately athletic guy can pull off a casual 360

I agree. JR Smith could have been Kobe easily. If he had to work ethic

You should see some of the things he did in Colorado. Dude was wild

Frobe was built different man. I also look at quickness (hands, feet, shifts, etc) vs just speed and the dude’s reflexes were next level esp when combined with his BBIQ

He was above average, but not top tier athleticism.

He’s only not athletic if you compare him to the true athletic freaks

Yeah it’s wrong to say he wasn’t crazy athletic, but I think if you compare him to other all time greats his athleticism and physical attributes are definitely a step down for the most part. Even comparing him to people who play the same position as him like MJ and DWade, I’d easily say at their peaks both of them were more athletic than Kobe.

He was more or so audacious and fearless the way he attacked the paint/rim that made him really stand out not to mention the coordination he possessed was simply not touched by players with more bounce and explosiveness…It really is levels to this conversation.

Whatever the case I think Kwame was more or so being hyperbolic to drill in the talent and work ethic is truly what made him special..Something outside the physical/athletic ability…

Frobe*

Athletic by our standards you look at his combine numbers and he’s not top percentile of anything

Kobe won the all star dunk contest.

18 year old, rookie, youngest to win. That was a weak year , without freaks like half-man competing

But you don’t win that without being a superior athlete.

Just not a freak one.. Heck, shannon brown would outdo anything kobe could do And kobe was still 10 times the player shannon was. Shannon wasn’t a 6th man, more like an 8th man

Kwame was a huge bust at number 1 overall so you have to look at it from that perspective. He’s talking about what he didn’t have or didn’t do.

6th man is probly still pushing it for a guy drafted out of high school.

He wasn’t compared to most other bouncy nba players. Kobe says so in his book. Look at him jump vs a guy like Gerald Green. Some guys look like they spring off the floor. Kobe was explosive, but he didn’t float.

If that makes sense.

When compared to other greats like a Vince, LeBron, Michael yea Kobe wasn’t a super freakishly athletic but he was very athletic.

He was very athletic, but he wasn’t a freak athlete. No one was looking at Kobe, then looking at LeBron or Vince Carter, and saying they had the same athletic gifts. It’s not even an opinion thing, they just weren’t.

He wasn’t.

He was an above average athlete, but he wasn’t a freak athlete.

Lmao right

People ever since he died it became cool to underrate Kobe and act like he wasnt like that

In Kobe’s own words he was closer to 6’4 than 6’6

Guy literally won a dunk contest

He’s saying his athleticism wasn’t freakish, like the top tier guys in the NBA. Think Carter, Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Jordan, LeBron, etc. Kobe was athletic but he wasn’t a freak of nature.

I think a lot of people have shot down the “not athletic” claim talking about his dunks and hops, which is true.

But people don’t talk so much about him being stupidly fast, even in the #24 years. He played half court really methodically so you didn’t see it as often but he would create fast breaks or break up fast breaks all the time just by being faster than other guards who had a head start. And his accelerations down the baseline in a few steps was nuts

He wasn’t nba top 5% athletic. That’s all he meant

You have to be to make the league. If u saw Larry bird or Steph they’d blow u away with how quick and athletic they were. They only look worse compared to “normal” people

The discourse started as “He wasn’t as athletic as most top 10 all timers, more like a 2x all-star”. That has somehow gone through a game of Chinese whisper to now mean “Kobe was a bench player level athletic” lol

Comparing this to NBA guys I could see him falling above average tbh. There some real freaks of nature like David Thompson who have been in the NBA

Nah Vince Carter LeBron Giannis. Kobe was very skilled and very athletic but he wasn’t like 1% nba athlete. He also wasn’t that strong and didn’t have huge hands. Heck even Zach lavine and Blake griffin were better pure athletes.

But I mean Jokic is probably bottom 20% and Steph and Luka are def bottom 50% from pure athleticism standpoint. They still dominate because of skill work ethic.

You need to be a genetic freak to even make the NBA. You could literally have Kobe and MJs mentality and lebrons investment in health and fitness and be 6 foot (still top 15% in height) but an average athlete and you would never even have a chance at making NBA let alone being a decent player.

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because nobody said that and you made up a strawman in your head

Not really, Kobe was a great athlete

It’s not crazy as hell because if you said hi to an nba 6th man he’d be the most athletic person you will ever meet or see (unless you happened to meet another NBA or NFL athlete). And even then, it’s not like 6th men are really that much less athletic than nba stars, it’s a slight difference. Theres tons of freak athletes who are role players or bench guys.

SGA is not top 5 athlete on the Thunder, neither is Luka obviously neither is Jokic. Steph wasn’t even in his prime, it goes on and on.

Yeah I feel like the image of ²⁰⁰⁹⁄₁₀ era Kobe when he was still pretty athletic but relying more on guile/footwork is clouding people’s mind here.

You’ve never heard the phrase “Proportional palms predict prudent portfolios”?

The difference between 6th man athleticism and star athleticism is way smaller than you think.

But the other factors like reaction time and processing iq work ethic skill etc really differ. Theres g league players that would be top 50% athletes easily in the NBA but the other stuff just isn’t there.

How do y’all even come up with this shit! 🤣🤣🤣

I’m the biggest Kobe fan here but let’s be real, if he went to college for 3-4 years like most generational prospects he absolutely would have been recognized as such.

That’s a lot of words for a HS lottery pick lol

Yes and I think points about his hard work explain that. The reality is most nba players are super athletic. This isn’t baseball or golf. If you’re on an nba team you’re freakishly athletic or freakishly tall.

Kobe had a 38” vertical, ants was 42 as a rookie. Crushes? Ant is faster forward and laterally. Idk how this got upvoted, it’s just not the truth.

Yea tell me you didn’t actually watch Kobe play when he was young without telling me you didn’t watch Kobe play when he was young

Kobe was athletic but no he was not more athletic than Ant or the Thompson twins or Carter or tmac or Wade

lol what!? So because Kobe dunked more he’s more athletic? What stupid logic. Edward’s is way more athletic than Kobe. Not even close.

Kobe is way better player than Ant at the same age because he had intangibles but Ant (even among NBA players) is an outlier. He’s got a better first step, bigger frame and bigger hands. He is an exceptionally big, strong and fast shooting guard even for NBA standards.

Kobe had a longer wingspan and BBIQ which is what puts him above AE and basically every other shooting guard other than Jordan. His ability to read the game and translate that is one of the best of all time. The NBA is full of ridiculous freak athletes, and even among them there are outliers, but people are cracked in different ways.

How is dunk rate, stl%, blk% and FTr the indicator of athletism? There are other measureable metrics like vert, top speed which are better indicators. Ant doesn’t have a high dunk% or FTr because he takes a ton of threes.

Edwards is more athletic by the real athlethic indicators. Speed, vert, stop/start, explosiveness

???

Kwame is saying that Kobe had so much talent and work-ethic that he didn’t need to be the most athletic guy in the league to be dominant. Like, from an athleticism perspective, he wasn’t a 6’6” version of Giannis.

redditor lack of reading comprehension skills is insane

I’m a Kobe realist as it gets (he’s 8-11 on my GOAT list.

But saying he had just average athleticism is insane.

Yeah I feel like this narrative is because of the late stages of his career.

Young and prime Kobe was a very gifted athlete.   He had what I would guess is a 90th percentile vertical among NBA players, while also having a 99th percentile body control.  His in game dunks off of one foot were always way more acrobatic then almost all of his peers not named Vince Carter.

He also had a crazy first step, which is how he got to the rim as much as he did.  Him, MJ and T-Mac are the best I’ve ever seen exploding out of the triple threat position.

Consider the source. Kobe used to bully Kwame Brown.

Nah Kobe was definitely not a bring his lunch pail to work kinda guy was he?

Yeah kwame seems to have drawn the hatred of any elite talent he played with or around. He was a kid when he came into the league but he only matured into a big cornball that’s bitter as shit.

38 inch vert is nothing amongst elite athletes lol. nobody is comparing him to average joe

he raped Tim Duncan in playoffs for sure

Stfu

no it didn’t lol. people said this long time ago. even Phil Jackson said it back then

James Wiseman. Andrew Wiggins. Absolutely prime nba statutes physically