Zach Lowe’s intolerance of his nonsense is our last hope.

Russilo can be cringey but he was always my favorite guest on the show because he’d challenge some of Bills nonsense takes

Zach Lowe dosent kiss his ass to be fair. The other ones though, sheesh

Tends to happen with rich guys

just to emphasize…he’s their boss. he pays the bills and chooses who gets hired/fired.

i honestly love bill, i carried around the book of basketball on a trip to nyc once. but some of his big misses:

he tried to platform KOC…who is honestly just awful at his job

he tried to platform dave chang…who turned out to be a narcisstic super abusive boss and has had 90% of his restaurant empire close down

just sayin’

also ban kawhi threads/attention for kawhi/just ban kawhi

I miss him and Jalen Rose together. Although he’s off his rocker now too. Those grantland years were special

This clip literally shows Bill’s friend calling him out and not validating his opinion lol

So

A. Don’t listen

B. Don’t read anything about him.

It’s a real shame Russillos gone, he was great at point out Bills nonsense

nah skip can outjerk bill simmons any day of the week

Yeah this is a terrible comp. Simmons sometimes has factual inaccuracies and biases, and if you’re looking for super-sharp modern analysis of strategy and statistics he’s not your guy. But he’s in just as different a category from SAS types as he is from Ben Taylor types. I’d characterize those archetypes as “objectively sharp analyst” (e.g. Taylor), “subjectively informed historian-fan” (Simmons), and “scripted screaming blowhard” (SAS).

Simmons has a very different kind of substance from guys like Taylor, but he does have great substance and depth in his own way and he is an authentic basketball mind in his own way. SAS and his ilk have zero substance and are not even authentic basketball minds. They’re the analyst equivalent of “professional” wrestlers, playing outrageously over the top characters designed with the sole intention of getting a rise out of people to drive “engagement” and ultimately, ad revenue. It’s profoundly out of touch to compare Simmons to that archetype.

The argument is about representative sampling. With a larger group, even if the result is the same percentage-wise, it would be more valid (representative). It can’t be that hard to find 30 people. Perhaps one from each team’s media pool.

I personally hate the idea of a finals MVP in sports. A playoff MVP would be more suitable imo. Not saying that changes the result either though.

I mean if we’re just basing it from a statistical standpoint sure

But the point ppl are trying to make is that a larger pool will include other thought processes and criteria for winning, so not just follow the 7-4 trend

Essentially any excuse to give Tatum fmvp that he didn’t deserve

if there were 30 voters it would have been just as close

This is not how it works when your sample size is only 11 data points.

There is zero basis for your assumption

With a larger sample, the average difference might be similar, but you’d be less likely to get fluky results.

Let’s say for argument’s sake that the population of all reputable voters would have voted 55% for Tatum and 45% for Brown. That suggests that although it’s close, Tatum deserves the award. As you reduce the pool of voters, you’d expect the results to remain similarly close, but also more volatile. For instance, with 11 voters, you’d far more often get the “incorrect” result of Brown winning than with 30 voters just due to random sampling effects.

the fact that this has upvotes is truly scary for society

Lol no it’s not, insanely ignorant take

This!

All he did was checks notes lead the Celtics in every meaningful category while playing PG on offense and Center on defense. Brown won because of how bad Luka played, which was attributed to him, not how bad Tatum played.

Edit: If you are downvoting me you straight up didn’t watch the games and apparently arent even good at checking box scores either.

Clarence Thomas just does stuff!!

It was rigged against Manu!!!!

Brunson averaged 32/4/4 vs OG’s 21/5/1 & KAT’s 13/10/2. The stat difference between Brunson & OG/KAT was much larger than the difference between Brown & Tatum.

Correct me it I’m wrong bc I don’t remember. But I think that Brunson this year had a more dominant close-out game 5 and game 4 too in a series where the margins of winning were a lot closer than Boston vs Dallas. Like ⁴⁵⁄₉₄ pts is no joke. I dont remember the 2024 finals well at all though so I may be talking out of my ass

Brunson averaged 37.7 - 4 - 5 on 61.4 ts% over the last 3 games, Brunson was just straight up the best player on the court for ³⁄₅ games. On top of closing game 1 well, 13 point on ⁵⁄₉ shooting in the 4th. That is what won him a pretty obvious FMVP.

OG was consistent throughout, but never peaked anywhere near brunson. Kat was only good in games 1 & 2, over the last 3 games KAT averaged 8.7 - 9.3 - 1.3 on 51.8 TS%

There are several reasons, here are four of them:

Brunson played at a historic level in the 4th quarter of the Finals. He is the all time Finals leader in 4th quarter per game: 11.2 pts. And he did it on 59/62/93 shooting, 71.4 TS%

Last 3 Finals games: 38 ppg 48/53/85

Tied the all time Finals scoring record for a road closeout win with 45 pts

Brunson scored the game winning, go ahead basket in Game 1, Game 2 and Game 5.

1] KAT didn’t have the points.

2] OG didn’t have the star power.

3] Dropping 45 points in Game 5 and all his 4th quarter scoring made people forgive how bad Brunson was in games 1 through 3.

But it def should’ve been OG or KAT

I honestly thought FMVP should’ve been OG too. But I think that whole Knicks hype machine was built so clearly with Brunson as the leader, whereas the Celtics had a relatively boring run to the finals.

Because Brunson had better averages than Tatum? Because OG didn’t average 30 ppg next to Brunson? Do you watch basketball?

I think Bill is just more bitter reminiscing on it now because Brown is gone lol

Brother, Brunson took the pay cut that allowed this team to be built. He’s the king of NY and he scored 45 to close out the series. He’s El Capitan. Not sure what more you want, OG deserved it more than KAT, but OG didn’t carry the same weight and took the absolute max contract to stay under threat of leaving.

They gave it to Brunson because even though he was inefficient like Tatum, all 5 games in the finals were super close and he played great in the clutch every time.

OG had the tip-in but that was one play and the next game Brunson had a historic performance that wasn’t in a blowout.

As for KAT while he was great, he didn’t do much in the second half because of foul trouble.

For the Celtics, aside from Game 2 and 3, most of the games were blowouts. And voters tend to care most about what you did when the games were close and in the clutch. Brown typically was involved in those moments even though he didn’t lead the team in every stat like Tatum did.

Brown played good one on one defense against Luka, remember he was the one who drew the charge that fouled out Luka in game 3. And also made the shot to put them up 4 i believe in that same game in the clutch when it looked like they were gonna choke.

Tatum’s best game was game 5 in a blowout, where the series was over by that point.

Yeah JT was better overall and even scored more, just less efficiently.

JT should’ve won FMVP, just like Steph should’ve won over Iggy.

IMO it’s just weird to decide someone doesn’t deserve FMVP because their shooting was less efficient than usual (like when Iggy won over Steph).  Should Kobe lose his 2010 FMVP because he scored a lot but was inefficient?

Tatum led the team in points, rebounds, and assists and also played great D.  He was clearly the top dog on the team. It was strange that he didn’t get FMVP.

Little playmaking is insane. He’s developed into a great playmaker. Lowk how can a consensus top 12 guy in the league me considered a inefficient and non playmaking rebounding big

So basically he plays like himself once the playoffs hit.

JB was the main defender on Luka the entire series

Lebron and Giannis would be crucified if they shot 36% over a series

Tatum was the worst starting defender on the Celtics in that series one on one. Brown did a great job wearing down Luka

It used to be 5 people… in the 80s. The early 80s.

Bill is always on some bullshit. If Brown was still in Boston, he’d be trying to claim he’s a top 10 player in the league.

Your first clue was that it is Bill Simmons

And this is why they don’t ask the reporters

At this point we’re expecting too much from a guy who doesn’t even watch NBA Playoff games of the reigning champions lol

(Yes, I still laugh when I think about that JWill blunder)

Edit: For the uninitiated, here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/nba/s/ibRCqIsxLT

Hubie Brown

vanvleet got some notice after the bucks series, and he guarded curry pretty well (aside from him having a then playoff career high 47 in game 3 smh) while putting up 14 ppg, this was way before he became a star of course

that’s the only idea i can think of

They won’t give to the losing team player. It is given after the game ends not week later.

to me, as a bron fan, he’s just flat out disqualified. idc if he averaged 36, cavs didn’t end up winning.

that game, he shook hands with kerr and curry before heading out in the locker room right when the warriors were celebrating in quicken loans arena. no way in hell Bron going back out, prolly in his ice bath, to accept that award. what would his speech even be? to a crowd of fans leaving after watching their team eliminated smh. just a kid from akron i guess

And they shouldn’t , just my opinion. Winning team best player of the series should win it. Same way I don’t think the regular season MVP should go to a player whose team is in the top 4 of a conference

36 pts, 13 rbs, 9 assists.

Definitely should have won but the winning team gets a high percentage sway unfortunately.

Edit: obligatory I have NBA as my flair because of 2/1/2025

That’s expected, we’ll probably hear him say PG is way better 3 weeks in when PG is dropping ¹⁵⁄₅ on good efficiency

Bill had said Tatum should’ve won FMVP for awhile now, long before Brown was traded.

It is more nowadays, he was way better before as a writer and pre podcast times where now every opinion gets posted and you have to blab bullshit to get in you 1 hour podcast that makes you money

Bill was always supremely biased but he was a good writer but now in this internet podcast era it’s just too much

Brain: I love you…

Bill: I know.

Knicks (despite being trash for first 3 quarters of most games)

that’s just their gameplan to lull teams into a false sense of security

It’s not ridiculous that JB won those awards. Completely defensible in both cases.

It is ridiculous that people have used 9 games out of their entire careers to claim that JB is as good or better than Tatum instead of the other ~700 games that would make the opposite claim.

It is ridiculous that Jaylen won same another playoff series where the number one option and second option placed the exact same stats and the second option was aggressive upon to have the better series? That situation doesn’t exist, Jaylen shouldn’t have been able to win awards just for keeping up with Tatum that’s what makes it ridiculous.

Relevant That Thing You Do.

It’s actually one of the closest FMVP votes in a while

Yet Tatum still led the team in points rebounds and assists while getting the harder defensive coverage

Tatum’s defense shutting down the P&R had far more impact than Jaylen getting a few rips on Luka.

That’s not how fandom works though. Fans will always be strongly biased to believe that whatever problems existed in the past have already been removed from the team and that everything is fixed now. Since Brown is gone, Bill wants to believe it was the right move, and that he was overhyped anyway and never should have won those MVP awards. You often see fans do this. “All those problems last year were coincidentally a result of the guys who are no longer on the team.”

I don’t agree, I think it makes more sense given Tatum’s injury. If Tatum isn’t that guy, then brown/tatum makes no sense, but if he is then anything/tatum can probably make sense, including paul george. Switch Brown’s name for tatum and that isn’t really the case imo.

Everything hinges on Tatum still being close to his old form, and dumping brown is protection in case he isn’t, as well as getting out of a contract that under the current rules was going to become massively overvalued if it isn’t already.

And if you don’t pay up to make that contract even more ridiculous, some team ends up grabbing him off free agency. Now they have an aging player who likely understands this is his last mega contract and doesn’t expect to get a huge extension, and imo if healthy(obviously a gamble) is just a better overall team piece over the next 2 years.

Brown’s defense was really impactful. It’s part of the reason Kyrie struggled the entire series against them. If Luka wasn’t the only scoring threat that series, it goes to 7.

Well it was more than just 5 games. Jaylen Brown also won the Eastern Conference Finals MVP

Availability matters

He isn’t right because Tatum was still worse that series.

Tbf I think Brown is probably also the worst FMVP in a long time.

Not to say he’s bad or anything, but neither of them were particularly impressive players in that series.

Really, Iggy is the only blip on the radar as far as comparisons and that one took some particularly weird mental gymnastics from the voters.

Actually it’s the best contract now because it’s so high and closer to expiration.

I’m a celtics fan I’m just not delusional. I think just about everyone values MVP and FMVP above all nba. Sorry man.

He now said it’s ridiculous, he’s obviously exaggerating now because of the trade

Couod have gone either way is a very different opinion to what he is saying now.

Lmao. Wow perfect response

He said that he thought Tatum should’ve won but was okay with Brown winning. He was much closer to a ⁵⁰⁄₅₀. Fast forward to Brown leaving the Cs and now it’s “ridiculous” that he won FMVP. Come on, very clear to see BS’s bias here

He has, but he also said it was close and that he is fine with Brown winning it, which is a good bit different than “That was ridiculous”

yeah no, i can not state enough how much i fucking hate boston and boston sports. i legit cant say it or reddit would 100% ban me for doing so.

Lol

Crazy isn’t it

Yup the hate that Brown is getting for being traded is insane. I get that Stevens is a media golden boy and there are lots of Boston homers but this is beyond idiotic

Then you haven’t been online, Celtics fans have been split on if Brown or Tatum should’ve won since it happened.

It’s been an extremely common view since the day it was announced.

Voters decided the MVP after two games where Tatum’s shot was off (but everything else was good). By the end of 5, Tatum was well ahead of Jaylen in basically everything.

Oh well if YOU didn’t see it must be true

I thought Tatum deserved it from day 1 but I just didn’t really care. We won the championship so who cares who got finals MVP. But now people bring it up to say that JB was amazing and more important than Tatum or whatever and it’s just insane.

I thought Tatum should have won it from the beginning.

I wasn’t exactly mad because JB played great man D on Luka and was responsible for more momentum shifting moments in the finals, but Tatum was the more important player in making the offense go and was the lynchpin in the team defense.

But at the time I thought - and I still think - the FMVP reflected an NBA culture of today, where fans care more about highlights than consistency.

I get what you’re saying. It’s a unimportant topic to be honest

He was and you are absolutely right but it’s kind of the iguodala argument, Luka was averaging 29.2 with 48%fg. That is still insane. Tatum’s defense is way more team oriented.

The ECF have nothing to do with the FMVP while you are right you could make the same argument for both which is why that is a pseudo argument. Tatum played more well rounded and always was the heart of that team. I feel like Celtics fans that watch that shit 82 games a year can judge that better.

Yet, in finals, he was the main guy to eliminate lob thread and closing the driving lanes so that the others can take on Luka and Kyrie one-on-one. That needed switching on anybody including centers. (If you remember, people were talking about how lobs will destroy Celtics before the finals and it was not a problem at all despite not having KP for the most part, well.) This scheme centered around Tatum also allowed to close the corners all time. People were looking where the ball is, but Tatum’s defensive impact meters was way higher for a reason.

And on the other hand, he drew more doubles, yet kept being the offensive engine stacking up more assists and potential assists, opening up guys (all of which were great). And counting numbers? He got the most assists, rebounds and points as he did all playoffs. Yeah, he was just slightly less efficient, but that is expected in this role.

Don’t get me wrong, JB played his role very well which was taking on Luka one-on-one (which is his only really good defensive quality, taking on big wings/guards) and feasting on the open lanes our scheme allows as clear 2nd option/play finisher. (And he wasn’t really way more efficient despite the difference in their quality of looks.) That is the thing. If he accepts that role again, he is great. He is just not the main guy.

That was what happened on the court, go watch the series or check any advance metrics or breakdowns if you don’t believe. I wasn’t unhappy about him winning, no problem. We saw it before. Luka was the best player, he didn’t win and the guy defended him got it. I really get it and I don’t care. I don’t even like Bill Simmons and I won’t listen this clip too as I gave up listening him way back then. But NBA fans being aware of media head nonsense and their narratives, until that narrative comes in an award form is always funny to me.

No, JT

So he went from saying that it was close & they should split it to…. it being ridiculous for Brown to win?

“Can we just have them split it” into “that was ridiculous” is definitely a switch up

Lol JB winning Finals MVP is an okay argument to have, but splitting the award…? The argument loses any bit of credibility it was clinging on to

And it’s not that “hot of a take”

Jayson Tatum led the team in points, assists, rebounds, minutes played, FTM/FTA, FT % during the 2024 finals.

Jaylen had the big game, but Jayson was consistent over the entire series. You can definitely make an argument Jayson should’ve been MVP

We got the receipts, bro.

Yes i know that, i’m talking about overall defense and team defense

Brown has always been a good one vs one defender, elite when he actually tries, he’s just so bad off ball that it makes his on/off numbers awful (among other things)

Tatum’s extremely good versatility helped so much, he had a lot of possessions defending Luka, Kyrie, Gafford everyone because his off ball defense and switch defense are excellent, Brown was mostly tasked to be on stick to Luka, not switch and get help from others

Even in previous rounds, Tatum guarded point guards, bigs, wings everyone

Celtics were switching everything, so a lot of players guarded Luka that series

Tatum played as the roaming big and completely shut down the Mavs’ lob game which is what they ran their offense through and no one in the West had an answer for it

You people are so dumb with 1v1 defense that you don’t know that team defense is by far the most important thing in NBA basketball and why Brown’s numbers are awful year after year despite playing in an elite team

Brown’s off ball defense is so bad that it literally tanks his numbers

And yet he still did the most on the team

Yeah I get it, I just think the 1 on 1 defense narrative is a little overrated when the Celtics typically switched on every screen and in the modern nba it’s common to guard like 3 different players in one possession

You do not understand how basketball works kid

You see, it’s debatable. You are saying that, others say Tatum was miles better. Debatable.

What a stretch

No some people watch the games and no one after that series was arguing Tatum. It was apparent to anyone and now that time has passed people are rewriting the narrative in their head. Re watch the series or actually watch it.

Bro, Bill has called the Celtics stupid no less than 50 times for making this trade.

The media is the one throwing different narratives out there. The Celtics have been clear about their intentions since their first press conference post-JB trade. My personal opinion is that the explanation the Celtics gave was much too rational for the media to swallow so they are still running with different versions of the story for clicks.

This isn’t some giant conspiracy. Bill has been transparent about his thoughts about all this the whole time, including saying he’s buying into the idea of Paul George “because he has to.”

He’s doing the thing all fans do, which is talk ourselves into our team.

(But also, Tatum is and has always been MUCH better than Brown).

The shots are mostly coming from randos on the internet

I don’t think regular season really means much in this context. You’re right but we won’t see that impact until the playoffs imo