[Spears] If Jalen Duren does not sign an extension with the Detroit Pistons, there are numerous teams who have interest in a sign-and-trade including the Milwaukee Bucks, Atlanta Hawks, Sacramento Kings and Washington Wizards.
Wizards apparently acquired AD for the vibes
Honestly it would piss me off that we got even less than nothing from the Wizards lol
Hey I mean you guys got Middleton whos back with…us. Well you got AJ Johnson who’s…now in New Orleans. Bagley? Denver?!
Wait omg lol
they flipped Luka into literally nothing, fuckkkkkk
Sheesh
I really don’t know why that was the deal the Mavs accepted for him.
No market, and it was too toxic
he had interest from atl then he kept getting hurt. if they waited til the offseason they prolly coulda moved him to GSW
It reaked of impatience, like having him on the roster a few months longer was somehow not acceptable because they wanted to move on.
Bro, that’s hardly the worst deal Dallas has accepted in the last few years.
He would probably be in the trade
He would have to be. The Wizards have two huge contracts in AD and Trae, then Dybantsa is the third highest paid player. Add in the base year compensation rule, the math doesn’t add up if AD isn’t in the deal.
AD is earning 58 millions. The math doesn’t add up with him the other way around.
AD wants to play PF tho? Provided they keep AD + Duren (I didnt watch the video)
I don’t think they can keep all those guys plus Trae and AJ who is a No. 1 pick
AD is PF in name only. He is a center.
Maybe before free agency this would’ve been more feasible but it would be extremely difficult to find a deal that makes sense for all parties now with base year compensation rules.
Can you elaborate on base year rules? Does that mean descending pay contracts aren’t a thing?
no, when a team above the cap makes a sign and trade, the player’s outgoing salary is the max of 50% of the first year of the new deal and their salary last year, while the player’s incoming salary is the first year salary of the new deal. So if the Pistons wanted to sign and trade Duren to the Kings on a deal that starts at \(40 million, that would count as \)20 million outgoing for the Pistons and $40 million incoming for the Kings
i think it can work for the other teams with bucks/myles turner, hawks center, maybe even sarr if wizards think duren is better
The Wizards do not think Duran is better than Sarr. They’d slide Sarr to the 4 before shipping him out.
If someone like AD is on the table, there are several multi-player trades that could work. The bigger the aggregate salary traded, the less that 50% differential matters. Something like Duren/Robinson/Joe for AD would work. Pistons also have a $15M TPE from trading away Isaiah Stewart, so the Wizards could add any player other than Trae Young to the deal and it would still work financially.
that would leave the Pistons down two rotation wings and make Paul Reed and Ugonna Onyenso the only centers on the roster. Meanwhile the Wizards would make a massive financial commitment to a center who probably does not fit with Sarr.
There’s no situation where the Pistons trade Duren and also don’t sacrifice depth in the trade. That’s just the reality of how the CBA works, because a hypothetical Duren S&T contract is treated as only 50% matching salary. The Pistons would have to include multiple other well-paid players in the deal to get the total amount of money high enough that the ~$20M difference between Duren’s outbound salary and Duren’s inbound salary doesn’t keep the deal from happening.
yeah, hence my original comment lol
This is what makes it such a massive failure by the Detroit front office. It seems they didn’t seriously consider the prospect of trading him back then when they should have if they were so far apart in the negotiations. It seems like the whole thing has taken them by surprise which is crazy to me.
It has taken the whole world by surprise. People on the daily saying this gonna be the biggest bag fumble ever.
I will say from an outside perspective that Detroit’s deal seems more than fair and I don’t see how Duren has any leverage at this point. Maybe they thought he would cave into reason eventually, and who knows maybe he will do so
Why do people keep saying this? Am I missing something or couldn’t they just sign Duren to a contract he wants and also matches AD?
Edit: I’m wrong, apparently they can’t do that
Okay, we’ll take AD off your hands plus some draft compensation.
AD with Cade would actually be amazing
An amazing 20 games
Monkey paw curls. AD plays the whole season but Cade doesn’t
Only need 20 games to win a ring
16-4 in playoffs, I’ll take it
Thats a good line for Vegas odds.
This is why we traded for AD!!! 💪😤
AD would be amazing paired with mostly anyone… problem is he has to be healthy.
The idea of AD
Man just wait until we see AD, Kyrie, and Coop together!
And lose 25 lbs
Funny how you’re asking for AD and picks but you don’t think he’s worth 40 million
40m is totally fine for Duren but he’s signaled he’s too dumb to know he’s not worth a penny more.
Because there’s multiple teams that want Duren while AD has no market.
The reality is nobody really wants duren and his agent is putting out this report for leverage in contract negotiations.
Meanwhile teams (mainly the warriors) were actually desperate for AD and we turned down every offer
So now you want to look at context instead of just what he’s “worth”?
We’d have to throw in a lot of other contracts to make AD work. They go off base year comp so duren wouldn’t be enough solo
If they’re doing a sign and trade couldn’t they just sign him to a contract that matches AD?
No, they could only use half of his first year money in a trade. For example he signs for \(40 million \)20 million could be used in a trade for the sign and trade.
Oh wtf I don’t think I ever knew that’s how sign and trades worked lol. Thanks
The most the wiz can offer Duren is \(41.2m (in the first year). Not nearly enough to match AD at \)58m.
This cap is ridiculously complicated. I hope they blow it up.
Okay I don’t care we have some replacement level talents.
But on contracts to match ADs contract?
Literally do not care what we have to do to make it happen if AD is actually on the table.
We need a stretch big not AD
wtf do you think AD is?
Going from a promising rebuild to overpaying trae young and duren would be textbook wizards
Trae will be great for the wizards
His performance does not change how insane that contract was. Giving him a raise and a player option when he had no market is piss poor negotiation.
I think he definitely had a market but Wiz paid more to secure his commitment and for him to be ok with sitting out most of the year. It’s not ideal but it’s not my money.
Also think he’ll be great. Best roster he’s had.
Paying a 22 year old who helped lead a team to 60 wins isn’t rebuilding??
Clogging your books with 94 million dollars in bad contracts without recieving pick compensation is not rebuilding.
If you guys got a healthy AD you’re an instant top contender for the title
Lol sure. You are getting an amazing return for a guy threatening to take the Qualifying offer and will be an UFA next season.
You wouldn’t trade him on a QO, dummy.
You do a S&T for whatever the deal ends up being.
Their point is the threat of taking the QO takes away most of your trade leverage.
If you are unwilling to pay him what he wants while also overvaluing him in trade negotiations (which you seem to be based on the suggestion that the wizards would add picks on top of AD), then Duren will take the QO, which comes with a no trade clause, and he will walk for nothing
The pistons are willing to pay him what he wants. The issue now is that he feels “disrespected” and is supposedly wanting a trade or will take the QO.
It’s more of a question of trading the problem child on his $200M deal or calling his bluff and dealing with the consequences.
what part of threatening do you not undertstand, dummy? Also, there are weird cap rules surrounding a S&T which make it much harder.
Seems like I might know more about the rules than you do, lol.
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While I get he would make us instantly better, id rather have under sized Okongwu playing 48 mins at C, then tie my teams future to a player with Duren’s attitude and mentality. Especially if we have to max the guy to get him, yuck.
What a coincidence, so would I. Also they’re the same height so… Okungwu and picks plz
Best we can do is Corey Kispert, Jock Landale, and Dorian Finney-Smith
we can’t even do that deal, Jock can’t be traded until January lol
I highly recommend giving New Orleans a call. worked wonders for us in the past
Yeah we do not need that energy in the A ✋
We need okongwu’s shooting more than we need Duren’s size, especially at the cost we’d have to play duren
Hawks are also the only team to be super competitive last year, Knicks steam rolled everyone else, would really suck to see Hawks give up a lot when they could probably run it back and see similar success
This isn’t last year, the got the rusty Knicks and got a few games. Don’t be fooled my any cj McCollum led nonsense.
How were they rusty lol
beating the knicks by 1 point in two games doesn’t make the hawks a super competitive team
Same here so you can have him!
Agent talking
He has 0 viable competition at his position in free agency next season lol
Jokic is going to re-sign with denver, KAT would be a ridiculously expensive sign and trade, Rudy Gobert offers less offense each season, Anthony Davis is guaranteed to miss half of most seasons, and Sabonnis is already overpaid with 0 defense.
On top of all of that, he is significantly younger than anyone else who is going to hit the market
Do the math on him signing for $200M now vs taking QO and signing a max deal somewhere next year. His agent is a moron.
Doesn’t matter if there is competition for his services next year…there is a max contract and it’s equal or less money.
People really acting like duren is some idiot with no leverage. These guys didn’t even watch the pistons and have no idea what they are talking about, the only thing they will stop him getting paid is him tearing his Achilles this season.
He has zero competition in free agency and will get his pay day one way or another it’s really just a matter if the money is coming from Detroit or elsewhere.
Hopefully it’s somewhere else
The max for him next year is going to be around 4⁄190 and add on his QO this year and that’s $200M total, so the same as his contract if he signs now. What’s he using this leverage for next season? Doesn’t seem like it’s to join a contender since the Kings are being mentioned.
If he doesn’t want to be with Detroit anymore, joining a bad team puts him in a solid spot to be a high usage player putting up lots of stats in preparation of his next contract when he will likely be right in his prime
Taking that risk is pretty stupid. Health is never a guarantee.
It’s barely a risk though, he is already not complying with team orders. I doubt he will be out there even giving enough energy to tear it. He already skipping training camp to stay extra fresh.
I will admit I didn’t watch much of the Pistons last season, so this is an honest question. Was Duren’s attitude a concern before the contract fight that’s happening now?
His attitude wouldn’t be a problem if he could shoot, defend, pass, or self create at an above average level, but he’s mediocre at best at most of those things
His play sucked during the playoffs, but as far as I know he’s never had attitude issues
Bucks, Kings, and Clippers should be willing to overpay for Duren based simply on having so little else going for them. Wizards, Raptors, and Hawks… no way. He’s not good value at the price point he’s asking for and is a bad defender, only average scorer, and routinely disappears when it matters most. He’s good enough to help any team, but paying him more than $200 mil will really limit your ceiling. There are such better uses of that money.
Finally someone with the voice of reason. He’s valuable at 25-30 a year, not 40. He will absolutely handcuff the Pistons at his asking.
Yup. Good player but for 40mil you’re getting worse value than a lot of teams get. He’d be right in the “good player, bad contract” group with Sabonis, Morant, Zion, Franz Wagner at that number and the Pistons wouldn’t get any better than the lose-in-the-2nd-round team they already are.
Franz?
I would love for the Bucks to trade Myles Turner and AJ Green for Duren. I think it massively helps both teams.
You guys don’t have problems rebounding–and that’s Turner’s main issue. And AJ Green is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league and plays acceptable defense.
Did Alex Sarr or AD retire?
Alex Sarr would make a great trading partner with the pistons. Very close to matching salary as well.
I would burn all of my shit if we traded Sarr
That trade would be absolute malpractice.
Sarr is very valuable to the Wizards. He’s the future with AJ and Kyshawn.
i fawking dare hawkins trade Sarr
Alex Sarr imo is more valuable than Duren because he can play defense and shoot threes. I see no way the Wizards trade Sarr for Duren who wants to be overpaid
Duren just made an all nba team man what are we doing lol. Sarr being a Myles Turner regen is cool but he has glaring flaws like Duren and hasn’t had a super healthy start to his career to boot
I think the horrendous playoff dropoff combined with whole contract situation has everyone zeroing in on every flaw because they don’t want this on their team.
Sarr is very overrated, Reddit loves advanced stats but won’t bother to actually look at Sarr’s defensive stats. People on here project him as a DPOY candidate. Duren is a better defender and offensive player than Sarr.
Can he shoot 3s? He’s a career 31% and is a sub 70% free throw shooter. He also took two fewer 3s per game last year so he’s only getting up 3 a game. He can definitely block shots but if he wants to be considered even as good as Myles Turner, he is going to have to take and make a lot more 3s.
Matching salary? Duren wants \(40M+ and Sarr makes \)12M.
When you do a sign and trade , you cannot use the full salary.
The Base Year Compensation rule that is relevant to a hypothetical Duren trade says that Duren’s contract only counts for 50% of its value to the Pistons in regards to salary matching for a trade, but 100% for the receiving team. So a Duren for Sarr trade wouldn’t work because while \(20M out/\)12M in works for Detroit, \(12M out/\)40M in doesn’t work for Washington since they are not under the salary cap.
AD’s body retires every season
I hear Chicago has some players they don’t care about moving lmao
As long as they structure it so that they remain mid
The legacy lmao. But to be honest I don’t think they want a contract like that at this point. Better to let the young guys develop and just try and stay out of the bottom 3
In addition to the Milwaukee Bucks, Atlanta Hawks, Sacramento Kings and Washington Wizards, if Jalen Duren does not sign a max extension with the Detroit Pistons, there are additional other teams who have interest in a sign and trade. Those teams are the Dallas Mavericks, Denver Nuggets, Golden State Warriors, Houston Rockets, Los Angeles Clippers, Los Angeles Lakers, Memphis Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves, New Orleans Pelicans, Oklahoma City Thunder, Phoenix Suns, Portland Trailblazers, San Antonio Spurs, Utah Jazz, Boston Celtics, Brooklyn Nets, Charlotte Hornets, Chicago Bulls, Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Miami Heat, New York Knicks, Orlando Magic, Philadelphia 76ers, Toronto Raptors, Seattle Supersonics, Providence Steamrollers, Harlem Globetrotters, Kentucky Colonels, Spirits of St. Louis, Virginia Squires, The Floridians, Pittsburgh Condors, San Diego Conquistadors, Flint Tropics, Toon Town Toon Squad and The Monstars.
Source: Chafie Fields, probably.
Washington Generals don’t trust his health though.
Hawks would be very interesting but remember that base year compensation is tough in this case too
Yeah, it’d definitely require roping in a third team to take some salary from Atlanta in order to make BYC work
Even then, idk if I’d want to throw away Atlanta’s current cap flexibility on a non-spacing center making $40m+ AAV. He isn’t even a great defender, so all of the Hawks fans clamoring for a big wouldn’t get what they wanted
He’s gotten better at defending the rim but he’s certainly not elite. I do think he would have been very interesting alongside Trae but he’s not there anymore. The more I look at the Hawks, the less I like the fit. Wizards actually is more interesting but it’s even harder to trade AD and his 59M salary lol.
For the love of god, can one of these teams actually send an offer or just come out and say they’ll chase him next summer so we can be done with this lol
I like duren as a player but this is getting ridiculous. He’s good, not (yet?) great. Not worth 200+ imo nor the media circus this has become. Each of these teams has some decent young players & contracts to make it work.
If I’m the pistons GM, I’m calling each of these teams with a reasonable offer. Wizards probably aren’t trading Sarr, but anyone else should/could be fair game amongst these rosters. If none of them agree, here’s the QO Duren & we’ll talk again next summer.
Duren for Okongwu let’s do it
ngl I’d rather have Okongwu on his current contract than Duren on whatever contract he ends up getting. Dude is arguably the most vital Hawk on the roster given the shooting concerns a lot of other players have
Add Jenkins to the deal and have them include NAW. What a steal that be.
Sure, but if you’re so far into fantasy land I’m just gonna ask for Cade back at that point
Ausar for Dyson just because
Lmao
I don’t want Duren to get S&T’d tbh. I want him to hit UFA for max chaos
I want to witness the biggest bag fumble
Well looking to next year. I don’t see a team that could or would take him at 200 million bucksNow there are def teams that would sign n trade for him. But if im the stones ain’t no way im taking back 200m in junk and a pickGood luck bro.
Kings will have the cap space next summer to give him $200m
Which literally could get today, or last week when offered
They might have the room but unless he is traded to them they can’t offer that much was my understanding.
Yeah that’s true this summer. They’ll have the space next summer to sign him to a max
Umm according to Pistons fans Duren is junk himself so why wouldn’t you take back junk and a pick?
Very few teams should not be interested. He’s a 22 year-old All-NBA player.
200m for a guy who doesn’t spread the floor and isn’t a very good defender doesn’t make much sense to me
Especially after that playoff performance. Sure, he’s only 22, but that whole weight thing really seems like a red flag. I wonder if Detroit has asked him to slim down to be more effective, but he instead wants to keep the mass on. He looked real slow at times last playoffs, and I’d assume all that muscle might not be beneficial long term.
He needs to stop cultivating and needs to start harvesting.
Needs to be in constant motion. He should try hummingbirds. They’re leg lifts that are imperceptible to the human eye.
They put that weight clause in the new 200 mil contract but he’s rejecting it or something. The weight thing is definitely an issue you’re absolutely spot on
I mean yeah he moves like he’s got cement blocks tied to his feet so he really should lose some mass
Not being able to say yes to 200 million dollars should scare teams too.
Yeah, his attitude alone screams “I want money and will stop trying when I get it.”
Absolutely nothing about this saga indicates that he’ll stop trying.
Emotional response
It kind of seems like this isn’t about money anymore though. The player feels disrespected and wants to move on. And if this report is true, they really havn’t even considered trading him even though he asked out months ago.
It makes a ton of sense for the Bucks to get a 22 year old All NBA center for the rebuild. Id be very okay with the contract as long as they dont give up a ton to be able to give him that contract.
It doesn’t make much sense if the plan is to develop Ware.
The plan is to give the Pistons Ware
200m for a guy who made 60% of his total points four feet from the basket. That shit gets shut down as we saw, in the playoffs. This is a moronic contract and he’s an IDIOT if he doesn’t sign it.
It makes sense when your remember with all that being said he’s still one of the best at his position. How many guys can you get to preform at his level currently?
Overpaying someone with this ma y red flags is a terrible idea on the second apron era.
$40 million is basically a top-40 salary. That’s fine, he’s a top-40 player.
I’m not convinced at all he’s a top 40 player, and if you scroll through spotrac you see players who are much better than him, and contracts the teams badly regret giving out at that level.
No one cares if you’re convinced. He was All NBA
I like to use 9 cat fantasy scoring for rankings, which can be hard on centers with bad FT. By that metric he was the 41st best player last year.
He is absolutely not a top 40 player. That kind of talk is absolutely insane.
The red flags are that he had a bad series and wants to get paid. Yall are too damn dramatic
Must not be that damn dramatic if he hasn’t been paid yet
Technically he is, but he only got that last year because so many players were ineligible. Hes not really an all NBA level player and a lot of teams aren’t going to want to pay him what he’s asking for.
You guys sound dumb as hell trying to make All NBA at 22 sound like it’s not impressive
Did he look like an all-nba guy against Wendell
See my previous comment
Sure, it’s impressive, but there are quite a few guys who would have made it over him if they met the requirements. He improved a lot last year, but he has some pretty big deficiencies in his game and his last 2 playoff appearances he has been terrible.
Center market is also horrific garbage rn when the posistion is super important, unlike the 2010s where center was more expendable
Like there’s a reason why Kessler went for much as he did lol.
I’m curious to see how many teams start drafting centers more aggressively with the bad market
Kessler plays defense. Duren does not.
Teams will want to bet on Duren defense and shot creation, esp with his athleticism and bad center market
Overpaying for a bad player is worse than having a bad center.
Kessler went for what he did because he can be a borderline all NBA defender.
He went for that much because Pelinka is not that good at his job lol
Ehh
His stocks per game in 2025 would’ve been 2nd in the league last year.
Hes definitely in the conversation for 2nd team all defensive Center if he continues where he left off pre -injury.
Ehhhhhh….
it’s a what have u done for me lately league, if duren’s all nba season was good enough to be signed, he’d be signed. his last 14 games were the most important of the season and he played worse than the knicks series
It’s a what are you going to do for me next league. Durant got $164 million from Brooklyn with one working leg.
he’s also going to be wildly overpaid with a max contract
That’s if you ignore all context though
No, please stay with Detroit. I need that contract around their neck for the next 5 years
Sabonis for Duran should just happen already
Can’t work contract wise, only 50% of Durens contract count towards matching trade value
I wish people would actually understand this. We’d basically have to make $20M in salary evaporate to make this happen and there aren’t many, if any, cap capable teams able to make that happen for us. It would also involve giving away Duncan Robinson.
The Kings would have to include draft compensation, even if they don’t want to. We’d be gutting our roster to make salaries work.
so they could do it fo the myles turner or the hawks center straight while giving duren his 40
It counts \(20M for us but against the other teams’ cap it counts as \)40M still, so they would still need to unload Sabonis or LaVine.
Nahh
Why would the pistons take that lol
Why on earth would the Pistons want Sabonis?
Because Duren is absolute garbage according to Pistons fans?
They’d get picks back. A lot of them.
We should be trying to contend though
I mean picks are easily tradable currency. You don’t have to keep them you can also use them to aquire whatever else you need to contend.
You have defense with ausar. But yall haven’t drafted/ developed that well. So you need a lot tbh. I’d have tried to keep Tobias if I were yall to create continuity.
Sac already said they won’t attach picks to get rid of him
But they’re getting Duren. They can say they’re just attaching picks to get Duren but real ones will know part of the price is getting off of sabonis.
Sabonis had back to back top 10 MVP seasons just a couple years ago. Piston’s are absolutely desperate for anyone who can create besides Cade. Swapping Harris in the starting 5 for Collins leaves them with one guy who can do things.
The back to back top 10 mvp seasons sure as shit not doing much defending in any basketball game of actual relevance
Neither did Duren to be fair
Shorter contract, really solid player
don’t worry about him being a vacuum on defense
I’ve heard Duren isn’t a stud on that end either, so…
Sabonis is not solid for a team trying to win in the playoffs his style of play is just a huge negative if you aren’t a top 5 offensive player of all time like jokic.
Pistons don’t want him?…
Of course they want Sabonis. Would be a perfect pair with Cade as a secondary ball handler
They just can’t make the trade happen without hitting the rest of the roster.
If the Pistons wanted Sabonis it would’ve happened a long time ago
How do you propose that could happen currently?
Detroit would need to find an additional 25million in salary to match Sabonis.
A non shooting defensive liability is far from a perfect pairing with Cade
They do not, he offers no spacing or defense, it would be a lot of the same problems, with swapping a few strengths here and there. A non-vertical threat as a PnR partner is actually a terrible fit with Cade.
And you’d have to pay him a ton…so you’d have to give up a lot of matching salaries, overpay a guy with severe limitations and get way worse on defense.
If they traded for Sabonis, it would have to come with multiple first round picks and a young player like Clifford or Raynaud.
Fuck no
LaMelo for Tatum should just happen already
Only the bucks have something we would want. Maybe Atlanta but only for OO straight up. We just need a stretch big
Myles Turner + one of the young guys they just acquired from the Heat. Think it could work out well for both teams
Duren is literally only good because Cade is a great playmaker. Without a luka or Cade type player I don’t think his numbers will be similar offensively
His stats with games played without cade/ with Cade sitting and his advanced stats go against your argument. Hes a good player who shrinks when it matters most 🤷🏻♂️
He’s not that guy pal. Needs a good playmaker and without that his number will decline
What he is saying, is that we have numbers for this stuff and they don’t show any sort of a drop without Cade. I think he played better actually.
Your argument is invalid, learn to regulate your emotions when you’re wrong. You said Duren is only good because because Cade is a great playmaker, Durens stats without cade are 22.4pts, 11.4rebs and 3.2ast. TS 71%, +7.6/game.
My argument is not that hes “that guy” its that Cade doesnt make him better.
Orlando and Cleveland strategically tried to neutralize Duren. Without Duren’s rebounding and scoring, Detroit’s offense goes from “eh” to terrible. And an unreasonable burden is put on Cade: he has to score more than normal with more efficiency than normal while his main PnR roll guy is being heavily targeted by the opposing defense. You get Duren off his game, and Detroit’s offense collapses unless Cade, Tobias Harris, and Duncan Robinson go bananas.
And if you have a physical front-court like Orlando & Cleveland do, it’s way easier to go after Duren than it is to confront Cade directly. The obvious move for both those teams was to do anything & everything possible to neutralize Duren.
As much as anything, Detroit ran into their own roster construction problem and nightmare match-ups. They needed to be able to keep defenses honest by having more offensive firepower at forward/wing.
I fully agree with this. Ultimately the team needs more offensive talent, not less, particularly scorers who can play off ball and shoot. If Duren is a third option offensively, and the roster construction allows him to be the only non shooter, he likely has a good playoffs. The matchups were brutal but I kinda feel there are no good Center matchups on contenders. They all have good to great bigs.
Sometime in February or March, I took a really deep dive into Detroit’s offense. I was trying to figure out how their offense was remotely viable despite having an obvious lack of efficient shooters. Spent a few hours in my spreadsheets like a freak.
The answer? Offensive rebounds.
Cade’s relatively inefficient shooting and the team’s lack of other offensive engines didn’t matter so long long as Duren and co. were there to clean misses up off the glass. Reboundable misses gave Detroit’s frontcourt a ton of high expected value attempts from point blank range. The team had this very meta way of producing efficient offense.
And the combination of Detroit’s high rebounding acuity & Duren’s presence in the paint gave Cade a ton of freedom to not give a flying fuck about efficiency. Barrel your way into the paint. If you get really stuck, fuck it - Duren is there somewhere. If you can get a somewhat decent shot off? Shoot. If it goes in, great. If not? Fuck it - Duren (and Thompson and others) are in there somewhere.
For the era, what Detroit was doing was really cool. Practically the opposite of what other teams do to boost the expected value of their average shot. But without more reliable offense from forwards, Detroit’s offense was also clearly vulnerable to opposing teams with big/physical frontcourts of their own.
I was calling out Cleveland and the (healthy) Magic as terrible match-ups on here long before the playoffs started. Really unfortunate how that worked out. The Knicks also had (a somewhat more limited) ability to neutralize Detroit’s offense, but Detroit’s defense is particularly well suited to stop the Knicks. I was rooting for a Detroit-Knicks matchup.
I think in the modern NBA you can’t pair two complete non spacers in the playoffs. It’s a different game in the playoffs and any weakenesses will be deliberately attacked and exploited. Now if the goal is to just be a good team then Jalen will make you good during the regular season.
Over 20 playoff games, he’s averaged roughly 11.5 and 10. He’s not a strong defender. Realistically what is that production worth? 20m?
He was all nba during the regular season, pistons have no spacing and play Cade hero ball that won’t work in the playoffs. What non shooter do you know thriving on a team with no shooters?
So what is he worth?
He’s worth what the market will pay which is about 200 million. Walker Kessler who just signed for 130 has never had a playoff game and only suited up for 5 games last year. To think duren has no market is laughable when he is literally turning down 200m dollar deals.
Huge overpay that will set them back, I hope they give even more
mane watch out
I hope a team I dislike gives him the max
Can’t help but think Utah would be a perfect landing spot for him. Though I don’t see Ainge overpaying for him.
How many bigs do they fucking need
They have 1 really. Nurkic who isn’t a long term solution. So yes, Utah would be interested, but I also don’t think they are ready to make a move to get him UNLESS it was before the deal was done and they could get Duren on a 1 year deal and KNOWN they could get him locked up long term after that.
Otherwise they would need to include Lauri and that isn’t something I see Utah doing right now. Maybe in 1 year.
They have Lauri, Filipowski, Nurkic, Jaren Jackson Jr, Jaxson Hayes and even Mo Bamba.
That’s 6 players that can all play center like what?
Playing center is different than being a center. And Bamba and Hayes are barely nba level players. flip isn’t a center either. If you could get Duren ship those two out along with Nurk.
Well that is certainly a list of teams
sabonis you are a piston
As if option wasn’t there all along and was reported no one even contacted the team. When reports of Pistons being disinterested in sign and trades always sounded like the offers, and the zero there were, thus far not the process.
Don’t know if these teams are the idiots for not clueing into that, or the reporters for making up the story as if is a believable one.
This sounds like a lost in translation matter and these are the teams interested next offseason as at least two of them had already been reported to be.
im gonna have to delete some comments if he gets traded to the hawks lmao
would gladly take street clothes and maybe a draft pick for duren
Marc Spears is an All NBA level hack
If you are the Pistons you cannot let this happen to your club. Let this dude walk
Your argument is that Detroit should let him walk for nothing instead of getting value back for him. 0 logical thinking in that
He has no value
If he has no value teams wouldn’t be trying to get him. He wouldn’t been gone if Detroit didn’t let it be known they would match any offer for him.
No logic in that either. All NBA at 22. Keep letting your emotions talk lol
Wizards sign and trade for AD.
No thx.
Hawks would make sense, but Wiz and Bucks? Why commit that much money and draft capital to a 2nd or 3rd option player when in the middle of a rebuild?
We’re not in a rebuild anymore. Last year was the final season of it
Yeah, that was the last rebuild. I’m talking about the new one
wasn’t funny unfortunately
for the wiz i mean if you can somehow pivot AD and all his question marks and a pick into a 22 year old Jalen Duren that fits your timeline i think that’s a win. for all duren’s flaws he’s at the very minimum on the court.
for the bucks is a little more unclear but since they don’t have a pick it probably just makes sense to get talent in the door especially if it is only going to cost you some of the older pieces you aren’t committed to like Turner
I seem to be out of the group think here. I think Detroit fucked this up badly. The reason why young centers are expensive is because there aren’t many of them. Floor spacers earn top dollar but guys like Duren (even with the poor playoff showing) aren’t very far behind!
Detroit will regret their management of what should have been a hold your nose and get it done deal.
The issue is you need your young center to be solid defensively, or at least have upside there. It doesn’t seem like Duren cares to put in the effort on defense and that’s a hard thing to commit to.
yeah, see this is what I’m talking about. No, I don’t think that’s the issue in Detroit. I see your point that giving $40M a year to someone who isn’t a proven defensive anchor is questionable. But Detroit has already shown they’re willing to pay him big money. They’re arguing over a few million and some terms.
It’s him arguing not the team. Only thing we’ve done wrong is not tell him to kick rocks and keep increasing the number. He’s a rat.
Go rewatch the playoffs. Dude has a motor issue. You wanna pay that to a guy who had a motor issue IN THE PLAYOFFS on a CONTRACT YEAR?
that emblem by your username and the caps tell the story man. I can imagine this is exhausting. The team has been the one moving the money and Duren is skipping camp so I see you there. However in negotiations it takes two sides to stall. The weight clause, the “nasty” talks, and Langdon admitted he hasn’t personally spoken to Duren all summer. The team has made choices here too, not just Duren. Hang in there!
Lol but now they’re committing to finding a replacement for all his offensive contributions who can also play defense. This is the cheapest they’ll ever get have this offer again
His offensive contribution is rim running and rebounds. He doesnt really have a post game or a jumper.
Finding a center that can catch lobs is not really super difficult.
TIL finding an all star, all NBA center that can catch lobs is not really super difficult.
The Pistons are gonna look like idiots in a few years if the young, all star center they had team control of and let go after a poor showing in his first playoff series goes to another team and looks to be half of what they want from him on defense
Commenting here to see how this ages in the future. Very interesting
Set one of those bots that signals you to come back in 2 or 3 years
Would the Hawks trade Okongwu for Duren? Is that a good or bad trade?
Terrible trade for the Hawks
If you have time, could you explain why?
Okongwu is about the same size so wouldn’t really be addressing the issue, they both on the shorter end
Okongwu is a top 5 shooting big in the NBA and works perfectly with our offense
Okongwu makes significantly less money than what teams might have to pay Duren
If I’m upgrading to a more traditional style of Center instead of Okongwu it’s got to be a legit 7’ - 7’2 otherwise what’s the point
That’s just the main points off the top of my head in a minute
That makes a lot of sense, actually. Thanks.
He hasn’t sniffed all-NBA so I find it hard to believe it is a significant downgrade.
Talk about going from the frying pan directly into the fire
I like the fit with Washington, I remember when they used to have good Center’s like Gortat.
I think Sacramento and Atlanta are meh fits for him. Milwaukee maybe but they have Myles Turner unless they trade him.
Hawks just seem to get thrown into all roumors just because they have assets and project to be decent. Don’t believe Duren is the guy they want to commit money to after being very deliberate about having a clean cap sheet.
lol the wizards are going to trade AD again?
He does realize the QO has a no trade clause right? Where do they find these “analysts” oh my god. If duren doesn’t sign the extension I find it really hard to believe he’d waive his no trade clause for us
Too bad A D is made of glass. A pick n roll with him and Cade would be unstoppable.
Can the math for an AD trade work? I thought that in case of a S&T, Duren’s salary would count as half and then I assume the distance in salaries is just too much to overcome.
JALEN DUREN YOU WILL BE A CAIRNS TAIPAN
Duren is an idiot for not taking that contract, but his agent is 100x worse.
Duran to the wizards for AD could be fun for both teams tbh
I’ve said this once and I will again. We could lose Duren for literally nothing at all and I will be happy bc we are not lighting money on fire
Trading for Duren for Ad would be a big loss for pistons, Ad is clearly on the decline he’s not getting any younger whether he’s healthy or I still don’t expect him to be better than next year or the year after
Detroit matches any offer sheet anyway, classic agent leak to force pistons into paying him early
Listen Duren, to hell with the team, get every dollar you are owed. Knicks in 5.