YOU SHALL NOT SCORE!

So.. Gandalf the Black?

Is Curry the Frodo?

Yeah, for almost any other star player I would think this is arrogance and bullshit, I 100% believe Bill Russell invested time and energy specifically to improve his teammates and was very effective at it

We just need to look at the Celtics before his arrival.

The reality is all those teams in the 60s had a few 20+ points getter, Bill’s arrival changed that for the Celtics. The man comes in, wins a championship.

Kobe rolling over in his grave.

Absolutely! Herm Edwards had it right, you play to win the game! No one, in any sport really, did that like Russ. Look at the University of San Francisco. What championships did that school win? Only the two in Russell’s three years of varsity basketball there. How many titles in Boston before Russell? Zero. Then 11 in 13 years he was there. Worst finish a loss in the conference finals to a team dubbed at the time, the greatest team ever. After he retired it took them five years to win another, and that was with the all time great Havlicek, and all the other “great players Russell had.” I don’t diminish Michael’s or Kareem’s greatness. LeBron’s numbers are insane. But none of them can touch Russell. Who did Kobe seek counsel from when he wanted to take his game to another level? Dozens of other players too. He was 1 of 1.

Mostly anyone else says something like this, I’ll just write them off as an old head talking up their era. Bill Russell says it, I believe him 100%

Wilt has said he’s the best many times, but he respects bill russel. He’s not going to put him down on tv

Russel was a great teammate, but nobody’s arguing his team wasn’t better. Not even Russel himself. The question is just why his team was better. Was Russel a good coach who made them better? Maybe, but wilt was the better player, even if Russel coached his teammates more

Russel’s teammate was mvp the year before he arrived, no? And his other teammate was an all nba first pick in the draft? Most of his teammates were elite before meeting him. But, I don’t think wilt cares

Yeah it comes down to the way he played..

A lot of awards have always been based on counting stats and team record and his playing style elevated both to an absurd degree.

He ran a fast-paced offence, found ways to dominate outside of scoring, and won a heap of championships.

Here’s the FGA distribution among the top 5 scorers for Russel’s fastest-paced team vs Jordan’s slowest-paced team:

59-60 Celtics | 97-98 Bulls

21.2 | 23.1

19.7 | 16.0

17.3 | 11.4

16.1 | 10.5

15.6 | 8.1

10.6 | 6.0

The Celtics’ 4th and 5th options were taking as many shots as Scottie Pippen. There was so much room for everyone to eat.

A lot of the all-time greats couldn’t have had as many HOF teammates. They all would have eaten into each other’s space. How many 4th-5th options are making the HOF if you take away all their championships and cut their scoring in half?

The entire problem is the term GOAT never should have caught on like it did. Grammatically, it specifically points to one person.

We used to just call them “all time greats”, and that term worked a lot better.

That was arguably the best overall team that Russell played on though. Those teams in the mid 60s before Havlicek became a true offensive star weren’t doing anything without him

So who are ahead of Russell if you have him #3 ever?

They also got Heinsohn with the first pick via territorial draft the year they got Russell. They already had by far the best back court in the league (with Sharman and Cousy locking down first team all NBA guard selections basically every year) with Nichols and Macauley in the front court to also having the best front court in the league overnight.

Exactly my list

What’s crazy that 39-33 record was second best in the NBA at the time Cousy and Sharman were All NBA all star talents who were top 5 -10 scorers in the league. They had the best team offense with the worst team defense. Then Bill joins and he joins with another hall of fame talent Tom Heinsohn.  So I think he’s hyping himself up a little but he should give his teammates more credit. Though he did bring league leading rebounding and elite defense.  Though the Celtics had led the league in rebounds the year before.

Eleven*

oh yeah he’d dominate with his 44% FG%

Seattle strongly rehashed their team after he left. Look at their best players in these 2 seasons.

They got Webster and Silas from Nuggets, Gus Williams from Warriors, John Johnson from Houston and drafted Sikma.

Basically from their rotational 7 in their finals run Russell coached only Fred Brown and rookie DJ.

Coach Bill Russell did by any account good job, it’s executive Bill Russell that wasn’t that great. Though drafting DJ in 2nd round means that he’s still better than MJ on that regard.

Russel joined in 56. Cousy won MVP in 57

Cousy only became MVP and won his first chip when Russel joined the team btw. If anything, that adds more credence to his argument.

We are all wrong sometimes

Are players like Cousy, Sharman, Heinsohn, Havlicek and Jones supposed to be obscure players?

He is the most successful basketball player of all time (simply in terms of winning), is universally considered one of the greatest leaders in the history of sports, and was a coach in addition to being a player (so his literal job was to do what he says he did).

I think any great player will have a certain amount of pride, but Russell’s isn’t just egotism; he very clearly walked the walk.

Hard not to be with 11 rings and 5 mvps tbf. A lot of these elite players have this mentality, for better or worse.

There’s a difference between being caught up in your own hype and being so unbelievably dominant and having the rest of the league and your biggest rival be so reverential of you.

It’s not hype with Russell. He was just on an another plane

Whut now ??

If in a 15 year span you win:

2 NCAA titles

And

11 NBA championships , 2 of those as a Player/Head Coach

You get to talk your shit forever and ever. That’s just fair.

There were only 8 teams in the league and like 24 all stars per season. Two is fewer than the average team

Wilt walked into the Warriors team that had 2 former champions and AS, both of whom were on HOF trajectories and did make it in.

Do the kids still say “cap”? His teammate won league MVP his rookie half-season.

Calling Bob Cousy not great, even though he won an MVP and made 10 All NBA first teams is fucking ludicrous my man.

That’s the only one of his teammates who ever starred on a championship team without him (five years after Russell won his 11th ring and retired, after initially missing the playoffs twice)

Cousy was considered best PG of the 50s.

Sharman was arguably first great sharpshooter and was considered as best SG of the 5s.

Sam Jones has strong case for most clutch player ever and as West was generally PG was best SG of the 60s.

KC Jones was considered as by far the best perimeter defender in the 60s. He was so good that allegedly bump and run coverage in NFL was created by him when he shortly was trying for NFL before Celtics selected him. Tbf KC Jones pretty whole his game developed alongside Russell, which begs the question how great was their college coach at teaching defense.

Imagine how stacked the teams would be if there were only 8 or 14

Bron would have run away to join Wilt in LA.

you’re not really comparing bron’s rookie team with bill’s right