We’re fast approaching September and thus the start of training camp with not much of note regarding the two remaining notable RFAs: Jalen Duren of the Detroit Pistons and Bennedict Mathurin of the Los Angeles Clippers.

Both remained unsigned for various reasons. Duren had one of the worst playoff performances for an All-NBA player in recent memory and while he is still one of the youngest players in the league, his asking price is pretty hard to justify unless one really believes in their ability to develop him. There’s also the fact that the aforementioned All-NBA nod bumped up the max he could receive but again, the regular max is hard enough to justify for Jalen because of how bad he was.

Mathurin, on the other hand, is part of an archetype that’s been dying out for some time ie the “score only” player who doesn’t defend well enough to justify their lack of playmaking/court vision though Ben does still remain elite as ever at one specific thing: Drawing fouls and getting to the line as a result of those drawn fouls.

yitur93 | Lakers

41 | 2 hours ago

Ben Mathurin is even weirder than Watson and Duren because there is not even that much buzz around him and he had a 27 and a 24 point games in NBA finals a year ago.

lethalizered | Thunder

24 | an hour ago

He’s just an erratic player, his highs are great but the lows are a headache.

Idk where he’ll end up in the end, but there’s a reason his market reflects his play style.

KorgG29 | Bucks

8 | an hour ago

He’s got an ego and also doesn’t pass or play defense. 6’7” Cam Thomas

brnccnt7

8 | an hour ago

Hes like 6’5 at best not 6’7 lol

Looks visibly 2-3 inches shorter than Kawhi and they were on the same court together

KorgG29 | Bucks

10 | an hour ago

Kawhi got an inch or two more to his height while planting trees and doing video board shenanigans

Shaved_Hubes | IND

2 | an hour ago

Much like a tree Kawhi never stops growing, it just slows down

brnccnt7

1 | an hour ago

lol

drjisftw | Pacers

1 | 34 minutes ago

I have joked that Mathurin is Cam Thomas with better PR, but he doesn’t have an ego - he asked specifically to get coached hard by Rick Carlisle. He’s just got a bit of a boneheaded playstyle unfortunately.

Even though I’m glad that we’re not the team paying him, I still wish him the best.

Diamond4Hands4Ever | Warriors

6 | an hour ago

Because he’s bad at playmaking, below average at defense, and average at best from 3. Let me ask a simple question.

Go through the last 25 years, so 125 players with some repeats, and tell me if you find a single player on an NBA Championship team who was a starter and

(1) below average at playmaking, (2) below average at defense, and (3) average at best from 3 (and I’m generous with the average part).

Name me a single player and there’s your answer. His archetype is not a player that you can win a championship with as a starter.

His archetype is suited for a team like the Pelicans, no offense to them but you know what I mean. However those types of teams are also young teams that want to play younger players to develop them and hence he has no starting role on any team.

_Apatosaurus_ | Thunder

1 | 15 minutes ago

His archetype is suited for a team like the Pelicans, no offense to them but you know what I mean.

Good thing you said “no offense.” Otherwise I would have thought this was an insult to the Pelicans.

Hebrewhammer8d8 | Warriors

1 | 34 minutes ago

TLDR need to speak Mandarin. Ni Hao

Diamond4Hands4Ever | Warriors

1 | 27 minutes ago

Tbh, I always felt if you are this archetype, you should call Tim Hardaway Jr and ask him how he’s played 10 plus seasons in the NBA, with countless different teams wanting him over the years. The ceiling is like him as a sixth man, so it can work out if you learn what Hardaway did. I guess he has a slightly better 3 point percentage, but it wasn’t always like that.

Otherwise yea guys like Dalton Knecht probably should start packing their bags soon enough.

Hebrewhammer8d8 | Warriors

1 | 15 minutes ago

He is still young and have that mindset when he was coming up I’m the man give me the ball run the offense through me and I will kill. Teams would do it just for minimum for a year, and if the team is devoid of talent. There is enough sample size if you run offense through him you are not going to win much games. Teams also need to believe he can reach next level in 1 or 2 seasons or he reach Eureka moment “I will be sixth man, and maybe some nights in regular season I can flash the offense can run through me and we win games”

drjisftw | Pacers

2 | 35 minutes ago

I think part of that is his playstyle and part of it is that nobody actually cares about former Pacers players.

In the Clippers trade, Mathurin was really there for salary match instead of having value as a player unfortunately. The picks were always the main draw.

Limp_Screen7405

-1 | an hour ago

He stinks. Doesn’t really do anything good

PrincDraganIV

10 | 2 hours ago

Utah could use Duren now that Kessler’s left, definitely. Don’t know if they could or even want to meet his asking price but he’s exactly the kind od player to pair with Lauri and JJJ.

LordOfLimbos | Pistons

4 | an hour ago

If they didn’t want to pay Kessler, they aren’t going to pay Duren. Duren is better, but they clearly don’t want to invest that much financially in the center position. Even if they did, it would take quite a bit to pry him away

Jaded-Sapphire3546 | Thunder

3 | an hour ago

Is he better? He’s a bad defender at the most important defensive position. Is Duren’s offensive game, which might be limited to the regular season, actually more valuable than Kessler’s defense and screening?

anonymoususer6407 | Rockets

10 | an hour ago

Yes Duren is better lol. Stop speaking in questions

ihatedougford | Toronto Huskies

2 | an hour ago

Duren is a walking pylon in games that matter. Kessler luckily hasn’t played in those games yet to compare but Duren needs to work on his mental toughness. He clearly has the physical tools

Hebrewhammer8d8 | Warriors

1 | 24 minutes ago

That is where the chasm for players with athletic build with tools of processing information on defense diagnosing the situations. Most of the time these athletic players with tools can use their athleticism to cover the mental part of their game and it goes through high school, college, and into pros. They keep the game simple, but in the playoffs everyone is talented enough and they combine with processing information of situation & adjustments. In the playoffs teams have time to diagnose come up with game plan to attack your weaknesses and putting you in uncomfortable situations constantly. Duren has a long way to go to be a defensive anchor in playoffs, and his offensive is not that great to be paying him that much money.

rusty512 | Pistons

1 | an hour ago

Maybe better but most teams would rather have Kesslers skill set I think

lethalizered | Thunder

1 | 42 minutes ago

Yeah Kessler is just an outright way better defender. Duren is a bulldozer on offense sure, but his defence is saved by Detroit having amazing defenders around him.

We saw a similar trajectory with Sengun, once they lost FVV and Brooks his defensive minuses became way more glaring.

OwnABMWImBetterThanU | Pistons

5 | an hour ago

The gap on offense is big enough that I’d say yes. Duren’s also played in way more games and is 2 years younger despite them being from the same draft class.

LordOfLimbos | Pistons

1 | 16 minutes ago

Who’s to say Kessler’s game isn’t also limited to the playoffs? Dude hasn’t even played in a meaningful game in his career, let alone the playoffs. Duren was the second best player on a 60 team.

Also happened to be the starting center on the second best defensive team in the NBA. He’s not going to make all defense or anything, but it simply isn’t possible for a team to be as good defensively as the Pistons were if Duren is as bad of a defender as you think he is.

Either that or Ausar just had an all time great defensive season because Duncan and Tobias weren’t exactly locking anybody up

GOAT-dontGLOAT

2 | an hour ago

He’s not better than Kessler. We’ll find out for sure this season with Kessler finally playing meaningful basketball. Duren has the highest ppg drop off from regular season to playoffs. And Kessler got his numbers without elite playmaking around him

LemonButterRum

2 | 44 minutes ago

is Duren better though? Kessler can spread the floor with that 3 pointer

Easy-Philosopher-562 | Timberwolves

1 | 14 minutes ago

Remove the potential 3 point shooting and Kessler is still better. He actually has the skills that translate to high level playoff basketball.

Strobx | Kings

6 | an hour ago

Vivic slowly raises a hand

drjisftw | Pacers

3 | an hour ago

He’s the new Zach LaVine successor - overpay and all

Stardust-Unbreaking | Knicks

4 | an hour ago

He can come off our bench if he wants to.

Crown_of_Negativity | Mavericks

3 | an hour ago

The problem isn’t that teams don’t want Duren.

It’s that teams don’t want to both (i) pay Duren 35-40m a year and (ii) pay Detroit the value that Detroit believes is commensurate with trading a 22 year old All Star.

Also, base year compensation rules make any trade for a guy like Duren very difficult. If his new contract is 40m. a year, then outgoing he only counts for as 20m for salary matching purposes, but the incoming team has to have enough space to absorb all 40m. That both (i) limits what teams can offer back to Detroit and (ii) means that a third team might need to be involved for the team receiving Duren to shed salary to.

drjisftw | Pacers

2 | an hour ago

I’ve heard NOP is interested in Mathurin.

As you mentioned, his style of play is devalued in today’s league - look at the cheap deals that Anfernee Simons and Colin Sexton got. You can debate if Mathurin is better than those guys but I think he’s worth MLE money at most.

There’s a nonzero chance he signs the QO, but even if he hits the FA market next season I don’t think he’ll have a lot of suitors.

november3891

1 | 26 minutes ago

I really hope my Mavs can get him. We’d gladly let Caleb Martin go in a sign and trade.

Economy-Kitchen1846 | Thunder

-4 | 2 hours ago

Apparently no one. Both heading to China.

So…who wants Jalen Duren or Ben Mathurin in a Sign and Trade for their team?