I havent listen to the pod yet but based on the first half of this clip and the title of the pod I assume this is a compliment

Seriously man. Westbrook had a lot of issues as a player, but he was still maybe the most fun player to watch of the last 20 years. Will forever hold a place in my heart

Agree

I mean it’s not like he’s wrong but you could argue for swapping any of those last couple of guys around.

Especially when considering that the last decade was essentially the golden era of guards too.

If we talk about peak and consider also Playoff performances I’d take Kyrie and Dame over Russ

What one ring does is fucking insane for individual legacy in this team sport

One underrated aspect of Westbrook’s career. He never played for a truly great coach. Mike D’Antoni was probably the best coach he played for (half a season) and he truly unlocked Russ right before the covid shutdown. Tho it’s largely forgotten about now.

Brunson is just un fuckin real in the clutch. He does everything right when he needs to. And I hate that because I’m a sixers fan.

An incorrect one*. The one way Brunswon comes out ahead is because of his championship which at that point you’re talking about team more than player.

Brunson has a 5th, 10th and 12th placed in MVP in his career.

Russ has a 1st, 4th, 4th, 5th, 9th, 10th, 11th and 12th.

I’m taking Brunson over Russ every day. I think Brunson is a much smarter player.

Yeah man idk about that one. I don’t think clutch-ness can really put you over someone else. Like Harden is the least clutch guy ever. You might prefer OG Anunoby over him in game seven. But that doesn’t mean OG is actually “better” than harden.

You might prefer Brunson in the playoffs, but that doesn’t mean he’s actually “better” than Russ.

I think what Brunson brings to the table is undeniable. I want to deny it, but I just can’t

Brunson is not as good as peak Westbrook IMO.

Who knows, that finals might age a lot better than we think (hopefully lol)

I think what Brunson has going for him is the level of efficient offensive output he’s able to sustain in the playoffs.

Russ shoots a career 40/30/51ts% in the playoffs while Brunson is consistent at 46/36/56ts%.

It’s tough to stay efficient in the playoffs and Brunson is elite at it. Man gets buckets

Prime Brunson over prime Russ is a wild ass take

Russ never made it out of the first round as the #1 guy. Not much of a hot take from Bill there.

Brunson has been miles better than Russ in the playoffs in his entire career, even tho he has played way less time in it

And he has consistently struggled in the playoffs as the first option meanwhile Brunson thrives.

Peak/prime Westbrook over Brunson for sure.

The playmaking gap is massive.

And Westrbook didn’t need to be hidden on defense.

And not getting past the 1st round as the best player on a playoff team. Russ put up great regular season counting stats but he was never going to be any significant playoff threat despite playing with more top end talent that just about anyone.

Those are the results you’re judged against. You can appreciate his numbers but like all things, without playoff success, it doesn’t mean much in terms of ranking him against other guards of the era. You can be happy with the good, but you can’t ignore the bad.

He won a championship and FMVP two months ago. No fucking shit he’s getting glazed. You good?

Brunson glaze? He’s been an underdog his whole life and he fucking won New York a chip after 50+ years. New York was looked at as a mid tier team all season.

Russ shouldn’t have won mvp, the argument was better for Harden that year.

All nba is a regular season award. Most smart basketball heads value the playoffs over the regular season.

Triple double is an arbitrary stat. Brunson is a more efficient player, a player who impacts winning more, and a higher effort defensive player.

Because he grew up watching Bird at the 3 and Luka is the closest thing we’ve seen. (I agree Luka is a guard)

It is honestly just baffling. Like what on earth could his reasoning be for Luka to be considered anything else?

It’s literally because he thinks Luka is too big to be a guard, even though he has Magic Johnson as the goat point guard, and he’s taller than Luka!

Brunson gets the big market boost that Halliburton wouldn’t have so probably not

Maybe. But speculation is nonsense

No, Brunson has put up dominate playoff stats since 2022. It’s not like this one year (or two) was just a flash in the pan.

Knicks tax too.

Yeah they would

Yes they would be. Winning a championship as the guy is a huge deal

“If” culture is worse than ring culture.

Knicks in 5.

Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck yourself

“If”

The fact is he won. No speculation needed.

It’s because of his college resume. He has one of the more impressive college resumes ever.

Now throw in a NBA championship and fmvp, and that he’s been an elite scorer and ball handler for past 4-5 years—then it’s easy to see why people are starting to talk about Brunson as highly as they are.

Hali had one playoff run. You can say “IF”, but even IF he did win and get finals mvp, it’s still just one playoff run.

All that said, Westbrook peak is definitely well above Brunson. And imo Hali isn’t even in the convo—if he can make another big playoff run soon and a finals appearance, then maybe we can start talking

He can’t fill the box score up like Russ, and Russ is definitely a way better defender. But on offense, Russ, unfortunately, is a detriment to his team if he doesn’t have the ball in his hands, and giving Russ the ball every time down the floor doesn’t even build a very good playoff team, let alone a contender, let alone a championship. And if we’re using efficiency against Brunson, it definitely doesn’t hurt him as much as it hurts Westbrook. (And JB only really was inefficient in the first two games. 32 on 56 TS in game 3, 36 on 60 TS in game 4, 45 on 67 TS in game 5. Against an all-time paint defender.)

From 2010-2016, the only teams that beat a healthy Russ + KD combo either won the title, or was the 2016 73 win warriors. Only the absolute best teams were good enough to beat those thunder.

But, Russ’ issues were a huge part of why they kept losing to those teams. Those teams had the ball movement & shooting to punish his defensive gambles. They had the defensive discipline to build a wall and make him take jumpers. Only the best teams could beat that thunder team, but they could reliable largely because of Russ’ flaws.

So much context being blatantly ignored

Easily. Dame never got close to MVP

Can’t really say .. him and pg lost to Portland and i think a rookie dmitch

I mean he was the 2nd best player in 2018 and 2019 teams behind PG. They had a solid team. They just couldn’t win.

Totally agree. But I also think Russ never wins an MVP with KD on the same team. He probably never wins a scoring title either. But he’d likely have a ring, maybe multiple.

Not sure. Yes, if the team stayed together, if KD stayed, Russ’ career might look better—because he needed KD. He can’t be the best player on a championship team, which is ofc what Simmons said. Even behind KD, as the second best player, he didn’t get there—OKC might have, they were in the mix, but in the chances they did have they didn’t.

I think it’s underrated how dependent Russ’ legacy is on KD. Remove KD and replace him with anyone else from the era and it’s questionable he’d look better. I’m not sure Lebron and Russ do better. Russ being a weak shooter needs KD’s shooting more than Lebron’s offering. Curry could perhaps play off ball with Russ, but you’re really going to have to find the right big guys at the right prices. Klay is a good fit, but clearly you’d rather have KD.

You can also imagine a world where he didn’t get anyone near KD’s level—many great players never do. What would Russ’s reputation look like? Maybe Dame? I don’t know though, there aren’t a lot of non-shooting guards who carry. What if the absence of KD meant Russ looked closer to a (better) De’Aaron Fox or a John Wall? People going to be mad at those names, fair, but whose the person Russ looks like if he never had a KD or a PG? Lowry?

It’s almost like it’s not straight forward and there are different criteria to consider

Russ doesn’t have a ring either so I don’t get what the problem is

isn’t it kinda obvious by the names listed and the fact he literally says guards

I don’t know if Russ could be the best guy on a championship team just because he wasn’t at that level as a scorer, but I feel like people generally underrate the number of guys who can.

You would probably get downvoted on this subreddit if you said that Brunson could be a year ago, and now look. We don’t have to see a player win a championship as the main guy to know they can do it

He wasn’t hating on Luka, he just doesn’t know to categorize Luka as a guard or a forward…

Brunson’s didn’t really carry the Knicks to a chip.

People forget how good Jkidd was because his box score was average at best. i think his best season (stats wise) was like on the nets where he averaged 20/9/6 on high efficiency.

in today’s NBA, that prob won’t even make the allstar.

but he was one of the best defensive guards of our time, one of the most efficiency passer, and a very low volume shooter but takes great shots.

Naaaa

Love Dame, but we are talking all time players with MVPs, multiple first teams, and deep playoff runs. Dame isn’t quite in this tier.

I don’t think you saw 2008 Chris Paul