The opposing players are baffled as fouls get called just for making contact with Michael Jordan.
Maybe the game hasn’t changed all that much
But I was told every game in the 90s was a bloodbath with dudes basically getting in fistfights every possession. Surely it was true
Somehow it’s always the same 20 clips (half of which are 80s Pistons).
I will say though, I liked 80s ball a lot more than 90s. 80s ball movement is lit.
(half of which are 80s Pistons).
The funniest part is that the majority of the sub never even watched the Bad Boy Pistons, so they don’t even realize how much people hated those teams for their flopping.
Laimbeer was a massive flopper. Even in the clip posted earlier today, they show him flop multiple times and the announcers even say he’s one of the biggest floppers ever.
Yeah but that’s just life what I’m learning over the years the more experienced fan you are the less bothers you and not only that but the more you love the game. Also makes me feel old af cause I seen a lot and even forgot a lot.
If Lu Dort played with the bad boy pistons maybe the sub will love him /s
It’s funny, ‘cause watching basketball in the mid to late ‘90s, I remember old heads then saying the game had gotten soft, they call too many fouls, and the younger players have it so much easier.
The more shit changes, the more it stays the same.
My only takeaway is that the fouls were harder. But the defence was much worse back in the day
The defence was only pure man to man. Weak defensive players had nowhere to hide like today.
Ehh. Weak defensive players were quite prevalent. They hard doubled all the time. And the truth that people don’t want to admit is that the average NBa team then had maybe 3 offensive threats at most you had to worry about and very few teams had shooters that you were terrified of so you can play weak defenders and not get picked on because even their guards were mediocre outside shooters. Again this is the average team from that time period. So the contenders were contenders because they had more talent congested and more specialists. But trust me if you think man defense being played because of the defense rules equated to better defenders or something you’re wrong. It’s just that the offensive players weren’t as skilled or talented and thus you could get away with more mediocre defensive players.
I don’t think it’s quite so simple. Offensive players on average were not as skilled as today (I’m talking role players), so you could still stick a weaker defender on a guy who couldn’t beat them. Today the majority of players can beat a bad defender if needed.
No they were easy to hide, you just put them on the worst offensive player on the other side. Trying to get switchs for a favorable match up wasnt a prevalent strategy.
Well the 80s did have some brawls. The 90s just tries to attach themselves to the 80s reputation.
The 00s took the fight to the bleachers
Cue this classic https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zONvMKkIpwA
Revisionist history is a bitch!
Have another beer grandpa
During Covid the NBA would upload historic games on full on YouTube. Game 5 of the 1987 eastern conference finals, most known for Larry Bird stealing an inbounds pass to get the game winning assist. A forgotten part is that Kevin Mchale was balling out had 20 points on 8⁄9 shooting, but only played 27 min cuz he was in foul trouble the whole game. They were some soft fouls too. That was a glass shattering moment for me about how the game is way more physical now
More physical now?
More physical now
More. Physical now?
That’s the refs messing with the game. Adam silver is on record talking about how the game was more physical pre 2000s
Basically it sounds like the refs were doing the same things that are done now. Calling vital fouls in certain directions to skew the game. I watched an interview with one ref that said the NBA instructed him to do this with Kobe. The charade continues.
Yeah back when I thought LeBron could be the GOAT I saw him get fouled out in the playoffs vs the pacers so they could extend the series. Refs can make or break a game
Only difference is social media and the internet overall. You can find old ass threads from the 90s of dudes trashing the Bulls lmao.
Two minutes of cherry picked clips for Jordan’s career.
We get that out of one SGA series now. With 30x as much acting/flopping.
Check mjs free throw attempts per game…
MJ had like a 115 FTR+ as a bull. Only 15% higher free throw rate than the average player. That’s much lower than even guys like Kobe and Lebron, much less guys like Butler and SGA
Looking at raw FTAs is stupid - there’s a reason they track free throw rate.
Refs giving him a good whistle isn’t the same as playing for the foul first and the bucket second.
I don’t know what you said but Jordan not having to flop to get the whistle just shows how much the NBA protected him.
Good thing there are a million highlights of Jordan playing through physical contact and posterizing people then.
But oh no - here’s a compilation of the only 15 plays I could find of him getting a soft whistle.
https://youtu.be/FFRKskznDXo?is=2FI5s0i7XhODKS6O
Yeh there have been dudes racking up FTs in ever era for unadulterated floppery Harden is the blueprint and SGA is the messiah
MJ averaged more FTA a game than both of them. Both over his entire career and peak seasons.
Not surprising. Harden also took a lot of threes.
His free throw rate was WAY lower. I have no idea why you are talking about raw FTAs. That’s meaningless
As a Seattle fan at the time I remember being exhausted watching Jordon.
I don’t think it’s cherry picked, it’s just a good example of how it felt at the time.
I think this is how most people remember him. He was one of the most entertaining and explosive athletes of all time.
I’m not saying most people don’t remember the dunks or the incredible moments. I’m just saying as a fan of the opposing team it often felt like he was getting a pretty good whistle.
No one is arguing he had incredible moments but I distinctly remember saying something like “oh fucking come on” quite a lot.
No one is here saying he wasn’t good or we didn’t love him at the time, just that I mean… The guy shot free throws and knew when to get them.
MJ had a FTR+ of 115 as a Bull. He only drew fouls at a 15% higher rate than league average.
I’ve had the pleasure of watching almost all of Michael Jordan’s career and all of SGA’s career. It’s been the same for both of them. You’re just bought into this social media narrative because you don’t think for yourself.
If you got a 30 minute video of Jordan whipping his head like SGA you might be onto something.
But you don’t. You have the same 20 clips from a 15 year career old timer. With barely any flopping.
You’re literally buying this social media narrative from this two minute clip and don’t even realize the irony that you’re the one not thinking for yourself. Time to put you in a home.
I have been saying this since people started hating on SGA for the last 10 months like getting to the line is something new
People hates SGA because he flops, not because he gets to the line. I don’t see MJ flopping here.
Getting superstar calls != intentionally flopping to get calls instead of playing basketball
No it really hasn’t. Just as artificial product to prop up stars in 90s. Can’t speak to 80s or earlier.
maybe the refs aren’t any better today. these are like jenna schroeder type of soft calls. maybe some are foot to foot contacts as tony brothers likes to call it
Game’s the same, just got more fierce.
It has changed sinificantly. Let’s not rewrite history based on a gif.
LeDejavu
Yeah no shit you guys just fall for mass propaganda
Magic joked about this with Mike and Bird in Barcelona
Hell, DJ used to joke to Bird about favorable calls. He’d yell, “Bird call!” and Bird would reply, “If they’re gonna call ‘em I’m gonna take ‘em.”
Superstars often get favorable whistles.
It got the the point where yes, defenders said if they are going to call the foul anyway might as well punish him.
Thus you see all the hard fouls form the late 80’s-90’s. However even then it wasnt a every night type of thing as some would have you believe.
Jordan would still get soft calls all through the 90’s in most games as well.
I remember, because I watched Jordan play.
Ive seen Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, Nash, LeBron, and Steph in person. Next check box is Wemby
I saw all those guys play on tv, and one guy who belongs on that list is Jokic. He’s as unique as any of those guys.
lol ok?
Sidney Moncrief was him
That 2nd play was unbelievable. Moncrief backpedaled so fast to cut off Jordan it’s crazy. Even more unreal was Jordan being able to spin off that fast from that angle. Insane athleticism all around.
Those 80s Bucks teams don’t get nearly enough love. Sid was a star, and high of the list for best perimeter defender all time.
Yup
My GOAT George Mikan never flopped.
Naismith envisioned us all ballin with brass knuckles on
Don’t post to FB or the Uncs are gonna rage.
If you got Ginobili flair you’ve already reached unc status big dawg.
Bros probably 35 calling others uncs
Damn hol up. Is 35 unc status? Feels bad man.
“Am I an unc!?” as he feverously plucks a few gray hairs out of his beard.
35 is 100% Unc status bro.
Sources: Unc.
Mods will take this post down
own that fraud
Sidney moncrief was a defensive stalwart too. Lame ass calls
He was, but the first two Moncrief plays were probably the most clear blocking fouls of the whole video.
Nothing thats done today hasnt been done before. Things are just more televised now
The flopping has gotten way more egregious.
Yeah, but the flopping originated from somewhere. Started in the 90s.
Back in the day if 10 players flopped in one night, it would be forgotten the next day. Maybe a few people will remember some of it. Then over time it just fades from memory.
10 player flop today and the clips get 1 million views each. Then it gets shared/reposted hundreds of thousands of times. Then every once in a few months it gets reposted again and then shared again.
Well yeah, everybody who isn’t Jordan wants that Jordan whistle one way or another
90s being a physical era compared to today is a complete myth
I watched the 90’s, and yes it is a myth. It was also a lot slower and less complex.
watching the 1993 finals is hilarious knowing today’s styles. the suns had an explosive point guard in kevin johnson and charles barkley at the 4 and basically never ran pick and roll with both. both johnson and scottie pippen made 0 threes the entire series!
That’s 100% cap
Its really not. There was just some harder fouls that had nothing to do with basketball
So it was indeed for physical.
What part? The slower? Or the more complex?
People break records in every olympic event and soccer, baseball, and football gets faster, stronger, and more complex, but somehow you think basketball was better 30 years ago.
The game being less physical. That’s cap. “Complexity” is just an opinion based on strategic preference. After all, we just saw NY win a title while running a flex offense
U never heard about the Jordan whistle?
It could have been both more physical and also, still have stupid bad foul calls made, like today.
The only reason people think it was more physical is they watch a compilation of the most physical plays of the decade and think that’s what it was always like
It’s not a myth, the Bad Boys era Pistons were legit brusiers, but what is odd about the Jordan legend is that he was THE guy who truly started to get the Superstar treatment by the refs. The LeBron haters especially have a hard time admitting this.
So one team in the late 80s. And a hated team at that
lol. Normal fouls from the 90s are flagrant fouls today. Hard fouls from the 80s and 90s get you ejected today.
Incorrect.
Adam silver literally said 90s was too physical and they changed rules to favor offensive players on the perimeter
They literally changed the rules because the game had become too physical.
Why do you morons spew nonsense like this?
The kind of propaganda I can get behind
You can put together the same type of clip for Bron, Kobe, Magic, Larry, Shai, Jokic, Steph.
It’s a superstar league.
“You can’t get too close to Michael, it’s a foul.” - Magic Johnson
My dad told me that MJ used to slap his forearm to imitate the sound of contact and the refs would just blow the whistle regardless because they heard contact.
MJ also lobbied to make the flagrant foul a thing and said it “cleaned up the game”.
If a modern player did that today, they’d 100% be called a grifter lmao.
MJ also lobbied to make the flagrant foul a thing and said it “cleaned up the game”
This was voted on by the owners and was passed unanimously. No shit MJ talked about it. Pippen got knocked out 1 minute into an elimination game from a dirty foul the year prior.
Go ask players today if they think we should get rid of flagrant fouls.
Yawn, I was told MJ got shot and stabbed every time he drove to the basket. I’m not impressed
Has any NBA player verified this or did your dad see him do 180 layups where he smacks his own palm and thought “hmm he must be doing it for fouls” 🧐
What kinda wwe fuckery is that.
Never heard anyone else suggest that first part but yes after the Pistons series he did support the flagrant.
The Pistons played dirty though so it was only a matter of time.
Anyone who does things that increase their chance of scoring through fouls are grifters.
So anyone driving at a player trying to bait a reach in foul is a grifter. Which means all slashers are grifters, whether they get the call or not. Same with post players - who ask the question foul me or get scored on.
MJ was a grifter, but so was Wilt and so was Mikan. It’s grifting all the way down baby.
76er fan bout to learn about leflop and his legrifting
Tim Donaghy was a ref starting in 1994
Yeah, phantom fouls were always there in any era. What’s the recent bullshit is the shooting continuation. Players can now take 2 steps after the foul and chuck the ball, and it will be considered a shot attempt.
Michael “SGA” Jordan
It’s always been a superstars’ league
Old heads in shamble
They will post a few clips of the Laimbeer Pistons and Oakley Knicks to convince themselves that the 80s-90s were so much harder than today’s game…
Magic wasn’t kidding with what he said during that iconic picture for the dream team.
“You cant get to close to Michael. Its a foul”
-Magic Johnson
You make the league money, and the league will reward you. Been that way for a looong time now.
You could make a compilation of calls like this for nearly any super star player that has ever been in the league tbf
Yeah I’m not going to defend any bad calls, but I really don’t find it shocking that you can create a two minute compilation like this for a superstar
People are missing the point though. He isnt embellishing the contact to get a call. He is just getting favorable calls here.
if you get phantom calls you don’t have to flop or exaggerate anything.
Yeah I don’t see how him getting a favorable whistle without him flopping/exaggerating nearly as much is supposed to be a better than someone selling to more likely get a whistle
MJ didn’t even have a good whistle. His Bulls career FTR+ was only 115 and his highest FTR+ season was his rookie year
Why would you embellish contact if you don’t have to? He just gets the calls.
It’s always weird when people insist that hand checking was legal when video evidence of hand checking fouls getting called exists.
It was legal
Why do they blow their whistle and then give the hand check signal when Jordan gets hand checked?
It was legal but actually more limited than what refs allow today.
Magic and Zeke joked about touching him and you’ll get a foul off court
These are the true “Jordan rules”.
The OG SGA
Yes there’s a lot of bad calls but Jordan played to the whistle on each one and didn’t flop about or follow the floor like a dead fish.
He didn’t have to because he got the benefit of the doubt on every call
Jordan would’ve been absolutely hated if social media existed during his time haha
If there was social media during MJ’s time … LOL
There was. It was person to person on the playground.
“Jordan is the best”
“Jordan is a ball hog”
“They call fouls if you touch him”
Basically they either loved him or hated him.
Here’s the commissioner saying the game was too physical in the 90s. Every star gets a favorable whistle though lol. Never forget the commissioners admitted to changing the rules to favor perimeter offense in the 2000s
https://youtube.com/shorts/0armx7qRyLY?si=N9ApEFQ7TiZTIFNf
I’ll give him his offense…what frustrated me so much was how much they let him get away with on D cause they didn’t want him sitting with foul trouble. Him, Kobe, Shaq and Lebron…all glazed super hard by the league.
This is egregious. It’s like the league is selling a singular product
Ngl, he got a lot of touch and phantom calls. Didn’t carry his career successes by any stretch, and he paid a helluva lot of dues for many years, but there were very few equals when he was on the court that the refs would treat exactly the same.
Jordan fans that call Lebron, “LeFlop”: Why is the screen black? Why is there no video on this post?
They reverse-Steph Jordan.
I don’t blame the pistons at all. Make the fouls count. More teams should have done it
Didn’t wilt chamberlain call pat ewing a soft jump shooter
Yeah, but when he wins kids buy more of his sneakers and that’s good for everyone
Luka-esque
You could do a compilation like this on almost any superstar. He had a 15 year career with the bulls of course bad calls can happen.
i remember this like it was yesterday. but SGA is as egregious
MJ was an amazing player.
What are they complaining about? Those are flagrant 1 fouls at the minimum.
Even with the NBA protecting Jordan with the whistle, shittier overall competition, defensive rules that worked heavily in his favor, and Pippen being ridiculously underpaid which gave Chicago the flexibility to build a hall of fame team, Jordan STILL isn’t better than Bron. He had damn near every advantage people conveniently ignore when making the GOAT argument, and Bron still has the better case.
Jordan had the softest call in history of nba.
What an overrated player.
Uncs ain’t happy about this one
This doesn’t show anything that doesn’t happen in every game ever played. Some of these are weak, some of them are fouls.
I watched a gazillion Jordan games. He was the golden child of the league and treated as such. I recall being pretty frustrated often.
MJ objectively did not have a high free throw rate. `His FTR+ was 115 as a Bull. He only drew 15% more free throws than league average in the regular season.
The objective data shows you are a liar or have a shitty memory
Lol I’m totally lying because I’m evil.
Having been around and watched those years, as a young kid, it was definitely a more physical league. People weren’t killing each other out there, but I feel this is cherry-picking specific fouls when this wasn’t as much the case as it is now. MJ definitely got his whistle though.
They are all holding him because they can’t contain him.
the actual GOAT scored 50k with a bad whistle
Lebron has a higher freethrow rate than MJ
And only passed him in fouls this past season
I would imagine the bagless rugby player that has no jump shot would get more free throws charging to the rim every possession than a midrange maestro?
Jordan’s freethrow rate was 10% above league average.
Lebron’s is 35% above league average
source?
You can check on bbref.
Lebron’s FTr is .383 for his career Jordan’s is .358
They follow similar trends. When they’re young they shoot more freethrows. The reason Lebron’s is so much higher than league average is because they call so many fewer fouls today than when Jordan played.
Go to basketball reference for either of these guys or do the compare players function, find adjusted shooting, and look for FTr+.
With adjusted shooting stats like TS+ or FTr+, 100 is always the league average, so 110 is 10% above league average and something like 95 is 5% below average.
What was shaq’s, giannis, harden? Luka? Pointless to bring up stats in a vacuum without context but agendas gotta agenda I guess
Opponents get called for foul when LeBron flopped. And it was Tristan Thompson who hit him
This post about LeBron?
What does LeBron have to do with this.
U know what this post is about