[Fischer] The Cleveland Cavaliers may wind up backing out of sign-and-trade talks for Jonathan Kuminga and Peyton Watson as James Harden and his camp grow impatient awaiting his contract.
Yeah kinda makes sense. Harden’s already said he’d take a pay cut if it meant helping land one of them, but at some point he’s gotta be like “alright enough is enough.”
especially when the players holding everything up are jonathan kuminga and peyton watson lmao
What’s he going to do? Take a minimum somewhere else?
i’m sure there are other teams who’d be interested in some sort of S&T for him. and it’s james harden, the king of trade requests. time to become the first to demand a sign and trade
Mitch marner already did that
I mean they did a sign and trade so the Leafs wouldn’t snitch to the NHL re: tampering
At least they got something out of trading Marner to the Knights as a result
Yeah but tbf what we got back sucked, it just so happened to result in the number 1 draft pick lol
Thank god the knights lost, bro 🤣
He already did that 3 years ago.
Didn’t KD do that with Golden State?
Have those other teams seen how’s he’s played in the playoffs ever since 2020? If it’s vet min sure but you have to change your whole offense to adapt to him more than any other player on the history of the league and it’s been nothing but shortcomings for years.
You just saying anything. None of the teams had to change their way to play with him.
Sixers was give Embiid the ball. Let him cook. Oh wait, Embiid was always injured and they had to adapt and he took 2 games off the Celtics HIMSELF!!!
Clippers was give PG or Kawhi the ball. Let them cook. Oh look PG had his most efficient season and got a crazy contract after. Kawhi is injured, shocker.
Cavs was give Mitchell and Mobley the ball. Oh look, they made the ECF for the first time since LeBron.
So he raises everyone else’s game in the playoffs except for himself. Got it.
Is this supposed to be some sort of “gotcha”?
We all know this, including himself. He doesn’t want to be relied on and yet all the teams still end up being like “James Harden save us”.
Evan Mobley and Donovan Mitchell, you know the young guys should be doing the most work but crazy how the offense stall once he’s out.
“He doesn’t want to be relied on” yea, obviously.
Wants to be paid like he should be relied on though
he hasn’t been paid a max in a long while and still averages 20/4/8 and would like to be #2 to someone better, taking discounts everywhere
he isn’t a bum, just an underachiever in the playoffs
You can do much worse for a starting PG.
Lol. I mean sure, but you can say that about most NBA players, that’s a very low bar. I figured an all time great should be held to a higher standard.
at 40 million a year I disagree.
That’s kinda the Point Guards job… He ain’t gotta score 30+ He just has to occasionally remind the defenses he still can clutch a 3 or dice you up other than making the right pass.
You think he gets paid 45 million to do the bare minimum of what a point guard should do?
These people routinely forget what harden does every postseason and remind themselves “well we love analytics and true shooting %, and pure basketball” so harden deserves all that money and then some.
The nets got fooled, sixers got fooled, clippers got fooled, and you just saw what he did with the cavs its like clockwork with this guy we’ll be here next year also when hardens making 36-42 million a year to drop 11 points on 4⁄16 shooting in an elimination game with 7 turnovers and no defense as usual.
There are teams lining up to pay Harden 40 million and trade for him?
Hi, my name is Will Dawkins, General Manager of the Washington Wizards. Would you be interested in a Trae Young for James Harden deal?
The Cavs would be gearing up to fight the Knicks properly in that case
Huh?
Trae Young is enemy number 1 in NYC
That completely went over my head for a moment, thank you.
Cavs couldn’t say yes fast enough. Koby Altman driving him to DC personally
76ers will take him on a min.
I will repeat that again. Darryl Morey is a Liar.
my buddy wasted hours waiting on a sign and trade like that
I’d be more than fine waiting for Watson, Kuminga not as much lol
Idk I feel like Harden’s value is at an all-time low. Nobody has cap space and nobody is giving up assets for him. Think he’s gonna wait or else they can say take the MLE somewhere
He’s been given a promise by the Cavs. If they backed out of that promise, I think it’s game over for any hopes they have right now because they’re not going to get any players looking their way. Harden would be financially hurt by it, yes. He couldn’t get what their giving him right now unless maybe just a bad team with the space still exists.
Yeah I think they’re kind of in the same position. The Cavs are the only team willing and able to pay Harden and Harden waiting is the only way the Cavs can sign anyone else. But I don’t buy the “pay cut” because the Cavs giving Harden anything decent is more than he’s getting elsewhere. I think both parties will just wait
Harden was traded because he wanted to get paid, and every indication was that his camp chose Cleveland because they were willing to pay him.
If they choose to strong arm him despite this seeming willingness to pay him, he’ll just demand a trade like he always has, and that has also included a willingness to sit out. He’s certainly good enough that teams would want him, but the reality is that Harden isn’t netting the Cavs anyone who matches his overall output.
at this point of harden’s career i dont know if it would be a pay cut or just pay reduction due to skill decline.
he’s been doing this for a few years. sign a 1 and 1 with yr 2 as a player option, then decline it and sign another one for an extra year of security for a little less money per year.
Everything I’ve seen of Harden post “Darryl Morey is a liar” is that he wants to get paid as much as possible.
I mean, he literally took team friendly deals with LAC to allow them to continue to strive for cap flexibility once they pivoted away from PG.
How are yall criticizing harden? He’s doing the cavs a favor by waiting lol
Yeah they should hurry up. I would get antsy about being re-signed for sure
People like to hate on harden because of his play style, but he has always seemed like a great teammate and pretty good dude overall. Don’t hate the player, hate the game.
Because other than the Rockets, it’s ended badly every place he’s been.
He didn’t end bad with the Clippers or the thunder. What are you even talking about? Dumb comment
Nets flair.
Ended badly cause your 1st option isn’t a leader and your 2nd is a flat earther.
He’s just kinda lazy and doesn’t really care a ton about winning. Dude just wants to get paid and hang out with strippers lol. No shade but I would definitely find it annoying it he was playing for my fav team and they were trying to contend for a title.
If all he cared about was money he would not have turned down an extension from the Rockets, nor would he have left Brooklyn. Its not true bro.
Did you already forget the philly drama was cuz Harden took a paycut? He’s taking another paycut right now why do we commend Brunson (who didn’t take an actual paycut, he just signed the extension a year early) for sacrificing to win then say Harden doesn’t really care a ton about winning? Is it cuz he isn’t JB booting up a livestream to say how upset he is?
He had an interview where he said it basically wasn’t his fault he hadn’t won a title. He said he wouldn’t take less money after what happened in Philly and that he would have a ring if he didn’t have to play against the dynasty warriors. So like yeah honestly you do have a good point but those days are long gone and he doesn’t give af anymore.
And that tells you he doesn’t care about winning? What lol
Lazy yet he’s one of the most consistently available stars in the league even at 37
Idk man available is relative, I watched the ECF.
He played better in the playoffs overall than Mitchell, the Cavs don’t even pass Round 1 without The Beard
hot take here but I think they saw the bombshells to the sixers and potentially raptors and just don’t want to sign him anymore. Even as a cavs fan I think they aren’t coming out of the east and they don’t want to get fucked by the second apron.
I just dint think they have the type of roster to go all in on. Don’t get me wrong, i think they are a good team and im guilty of brushing them off when they went to back to back eastern finals, which is impressive. I just dont think they are on that tier and teams gotta read the room sometimes. It’s not like the powerhouse might get a random injury and it’s a free for all. I still think Philly and Knicks are just that much deeper in roster that makes it irrelevant.
So what do they do? Tanking isn’t as inciting with the new odds.
Cavs are a mess
They don’t know what to do, they don’t have enough to make a championship, but losing Harden sets them further back, but signing him to a major deal doesn’t push them any closer to a championship
Them not getting LeBron screwed em and once this Mitchell extension kicks in they’re mega fucked.
They were also a bit unlucky, I think LeBron sign for them if the Brown trade doesn’t happen
Donovan Mitchell and harden are not the pair you want next to lebron. Some of the least complimentary offensive skill sets out there and lebron needs defenders next to him not two traffic cones.
I agree with Harden but Mitchell is a fine option next to him as long as they got a defensive pg
Harden was better throughout the playoff run than Mitchell. Mitchell is being held to standards he hasnt reached
I’m saying as a fit next to LeBron, Mitchell is much better than harden. Harden and Lebron in 2026 is 🤮
Ah fair enough
The entire problem is that it’s BOTH of them since they promised harden an extension.
What were you watching exactly lmao
if they had balls
they would try to trade Mobley or Allen
In what way? Because they made the conference finals but lost to the eventual NBA champion? Because LeBron decided to go to your team instead? Or is this just mindless hating. Lots of orgs would kill to be a consistent playoff team; only one wins it all. Too many fans have this maximalist mentality where not winning a title means the season was a failure which is just not the case. I’d rather have fun watching the Cavs be a fringe contender having an outside shot at a title if injuries/everything breaks their way rather than being the hornets or bulls.
I mean the organization clearly wants to be more than just a consistent playoff team, they want to win a title but have been consistently unable to show they can get to that level with their current core. Now this offseason where other teams in the east have gotten better/gotten healthier the Cavs have just stayed stagnant.
It’s cool for you to be content with how they are now but it is worth noting calling out that this offseason has been trash for having championship aspirations
It definitely seems like the plan for the Cavs was to land LeBron and there wasn’t any kind of backup planning other than running it back.
We’re basically coasting with the current core, but not interested in committing any more assets to the current team.
Nah We just don’t want to give up assets
They want to win it the right way. Not sell out loyal players for a short window
What an exaggeration
Lifecycle of the NBA
Many East teams made a lot of moves to get better (on paper at least) while the Cavs did get worse at the edges, but they still have the core that went to the ECF. We’re not the Kings
Yes
They have been too slow to make needed changes to improve the team and seemed to be banking on LeBron to save them.Â
Fumbled LeBron, fumbling Harden
Nuggets are just as bad atm. Ownership notoriously cheap. They only team in league in 2nd apron. Their entire 26 year ownership hasn’t paid as much tax as they are on hook for in this season alone. Everyone on those calls know this. Why not just wait a few more weeks for the fire sale to begin? I’d be begging harden to hold please.
I’m surprised more teams aren’t going after Peyton Watson. I thought everyone wanted young versatile wings
He’s not that good yet. He’s played only a handful of games and it was when Jokic was injured. While he showed a lot of potential, he’s also had multiple nagging lower body injuries. His market collapsed essentially just due to the type of FA year we had.
Not to mention his month of good games included playing against a bunch of tanking teamsÂ
Which team is giving him $25-30m? That’s the reason he isn’t signed by Denver already.
No one has money. Market isn’t there. Guy is 23 yrs old and has already had 3 hamstring injuries. Guy purposely sat out of playoffs because Rich Paul told him to so he can retain his value.
Now he won’t get paid this yr nor next year cus next year’s free agency market is more stacked
Decently long injury history and has maybe half a season of playing that matches the money he wants. He wants as much as Braun but has yet to be as good as Braun was in 24-25’.
He’s asking for too much which in turn gives the nuggets all the leverage
It’s about what they would have to give up to trade for him. No one really has the cap space to sign him to the deal that Denver won’t match.
True, although some teams have been chasing old one-way wings with sciatica.
GMs are weary of paying someone who played with Jokic and it makes sense as Jokic very clearly is the best at getting his teammates involved than anyone else in the league.
It’s 50⁄50 whether Watson can replicate his play without Jokic.
Watsons best stretch by far was when jokic was out
Yeah 1 good month against worst teams in the season. Has 3 hamstring injuries and didn’t play in the playoffs. He’s 23 yrs old with a bad injury history..
Classic backtrack
Damn your boy is staying with the Nuggets 🥀🥀🥀
*turns to non-English speaking Chinese school children *
“Koby Altman is a liar. I will never be part of any organization he’s a part of”
“Let me say that again”
Denver put out their trade leverage leak/news yesterday, Cleveland responds with theirs today.Â
What losing Dean Wade does to a team…
I dont understand why they didnt try and keep him.
It’s a classic case of Cavs and Cav Nots.
Of course. Peyton Watson has had 3 hamstring injuries at 23 yrs old and barely played..
Guy only had 1 good month and listened to his agent Rich Paul who told him to sit out of the playoffs to retain his value in case of reinjury.
Lame af.
Well fuck
KOBY ALTMAN IS A LIAR
coooooooooooool
Get the Cavs a red bull pls
Is there anything holding up a Kuminga trade? Seems like that could be done at any point.
It most likely requires a third team no? Hawks are near luxury tax and also have 16 people on their roster. Cavs are near second apron I think?, etc. it’s probably hard to coordinate all those pieces
Yeah, but it’s not like the options to dump money or the price are likely to change significantly between now and the start of the season.
Yeah but it’s likely they’re still negotiating with whatever options they do have
The cavs cap situation is what’s holding it up.
They are 22 million below the 1st apron and would be hard capped at it with any S&T.
This is without Harden
As long as they stay right below it on any deals, they can resign harden on bird rights and be fine and below the second They aren’t shopping players and looking at the ones they are without knowing that. The situation is, they don’t wanna give up picks for deals acquiring either wing. Which I say, get to fucking down or make a bigger move already.
That’s not how the aprons work. When a team gets hard capped they can’t surpass that salary amount at any point during the season.
So if they S&T for Watson or Kuminga, they could only offer Harden whatever is left up to the 1st apron
From the way it’s worded this is speculation.
Gonna be funny if another team backdoors Harden
Would NEVER hurry for Harden after the playoffs gang. Get something or sign him for as cheap as possible.
Call his bluff. Please. How can that organization not unsee what he was in the playoffs and sign up for more, 1 year older?
Anyone criticizing Harden for this doesn’t understand what’s actually going on
All this for Kuminga?
Dude holding up his 2nd team in two offseasons. Â Legendary stuff for a bottom bench dude
Getting ready for the… “DAN GILBERT and KODY ALTMAN ARE LIARS!!!” tweet.
Bringing up some players in this sub instantly exposes the mfers who dont watch basketball and just say shit for upvotes because theyre needy attention whores. Harden is one of those players.
aka they weren’t making good enough offers for either
Cavs are in the most awful position in the league lmao they are too good to bottom out and they’re not good enough to come out of the east AND their team costs 9 trillion dollars
They are not even close to the most awful position in the league
Insert Lebron scared meme
‘Cavaliers are liars. And I will not play for them’
Harden and manipulating pressure when it comes to new contracts. Name a more iconic duo.
I honestly think the Cavs should punt on this season honestly. Let harden walk or see if you can get even a second rounder for him. IDGAF.
Let Porter Jr or Proctor get some time at PG, land Watson maybe
Idk. I don’t fucking know. This off-season is garbage and one of the worst in a long time.
Massive contract that is overpaying donovan and now we are looking way worse than we thought.
Koby should be fired and Gilbert clean house
Not trading Mitchell kind of locked them into this path. He’s a small guard at an age where you can’t take gap years.
Yep. He won’t but Donovan should just be the PG. It solves some issues if we don’t wanna give up on him.
meanwhile the teams around them in the East have all gotten better, except Detroit and Boston
Orlando seems about the same as well, idk the east is a crap shoot
I’m buying orlando stock. If Franz is relatively healthy they’re a 46+ win team next season and Paolo not playing for a coach he hates helps.
edit: shorting the hell out of cleveland though
and Toronto
who either run it back with potentially disgruntled BI or a Kawhi that’s only available for half the games/suspended and eventually hobbled
And tell me why the cavs even have to resign James Harden
He’s their second best offensive player.
We pinky promised
Can someone tell me exactly why anyone would base their offseason around an OLD James Harden? So he can have a terrible game 7 in the first round of the playoffs?
Next to no other real options and the fact that he was a big piece of their ECF run?
Could you imagine what the Cavs would look like without him, it’d just be dmitch taking 53 shots every game and just hoping that guys hit shots
because “an old James Harden” is still roughly 10x the player Peyton Watson or Jonathan Kuminga will ever be.
There’s likely been an agreement with Harden already, who opted out of $42M to take a longer-term deal at a lower price point, so that Cleveland could add to their team and then re-sign him, but I doubt he agreed to drag this on all summer long.
Because old LeBron plan failed
what is the alternative?
…not doing that. Have you guys watched James Harden?
They don’t know what else to doÂ
Why in gods name would you even pay harden real money at this point. Doomed to fail if they do. Probably doomed either way but 100% if they sign harden & pay him sizeable cash.
If they don’t pay him they’re still over the cap and then they’re over the cap without a starting PG.
Dude is turning 37 in days. And he cannot move on defense in the playoffs when it matters. If he even cares honestly lol.
Nothing against him he is smart. Out to get the money first as I would be or most anyone. But I just don’t see how you can call this the right move.
It’s a tough situation for the Cavs because if they just let him walk their contention window’s pretty much shut while they have DMitch on a supermax and Mobley on his escalator contract, but if they pay him his contract will look really ugly in a couple years.
Well fuck James harden then. Trade his ass or let him walk. GTFO.
🤦🏻‍♂️