[Goodwill] I think there’s a lot of people within the Pistons organization that hold Ausar Thompson as the second best player on this team and not Jalen Duren, even though Duren made the All-Star team. And that affects these negotiations with Duren.
People’s attitude towards Ausar is going to change once he gets that new contract if it’s pretty high. Everyone loves the young player before they are paid, but once you have that big extension, every flaw and weakness comes out.
And he is a wing who has zero perimeter skill offensively, and the same spacing issues he has with Duren will be there with like 90% of other big men too. Paying 30m+ for a defensive specialist who puts up the cool highlight dunk or two every game is way more questionable than paying Duren $35-40m.
The thing is it’s a lot easier to find someone who does 80% of what Duren does at 60% of his contract vs. finding someone who does 80% of what Ausar does at 60% of his next contract
Yeah I’d take Gafford for half the price.
No you wouldn’t. He’d play 30 games and drive you crazy when you actually needed him
I don’t think this logic works here for players like Thompson. You can’t just account for the production, you also have to factor in the weaknesses. When you consider that Thompson is not being guarded in the playoffs. It’s also a lot easier to fit in players with Duren offensively than it is with Thompson.
You’ve got to subtract something from the percentage for what he takes away as an offensive player.
The Pistons offense was better with him on the court last year
I feel like we’re getting into the andre roberson/ben simmons range of discussion here.
Amazing on d, hilariously bad a 3pt shooting
I would bet nearly everything than peak Ben Simmons would be a better player than both of the Thompson end up being.
Factual
You mean someone who made All NBA multiple times? I mean yeah
It feels like every year, the opinion of Ben Simmons goes down more and more. Lol.
He had his clear limitations, but he’s not in the same conversation as Andre Roberson. Simmons was the ROY, a 3x All Star, 2x First Team Defense, and made a 3rd team All-NBA.
The Piston would be thrilled if Ausar becomes a healthier Ben Simmons.
The only thing Ben Simmons couldn’t do was shoot. There are a lot more things Ausar does way worse than Ben Simmons lol
I mean for example Caruso is a better player than Ausar and he only got 4⁄80
Caruso is an exception though, because he only plays ~1,000 mins a season to save himself for the playoffs. So his salary is a great value and a discount, as long as you’re good enough to skate by with him playing 18-20 mins in 55 games each season. It’s hard to find a good comparison for him because of that, he’s like the role player version of Kawhi lol
I don’t think Caruso is a better player than Ausar…
How can you say that like it’s a fact?
I would take Ausar over Caruso every time. Caruso has now become overrated.
pistons already have a duren replacement too. paul reed is still on the roster. i mean it sounds crazy but we saw what happened in the playoffs.
No because at least he has a calling card (defense and athleticism). What’s the go to if you max Duren? Reed was arguably better than him in the playoffs last year.
Duren just averaged 20⁄10 and was the 2nd best player on a 60 win team, and was like top 15-20 in all different key impact metrics. Wtf are you talking about?
I know the playoffs happened but let’s not just act like we can’t remember last regular season.
Duren was better than Ausar last year in case you need that spelled out. Ausar is a more limited player as well, he is elite at one thing, awesome…and he tanks the entire offense at the same time.
Duren is just a lob threat that lives off of Cade on offense. He’s mid at best on defense until the playoffs and then he makes a turnstile look elite.
Duren was never the second best player last year.
bUT ThE ImPACt MeTRicS
Don’t talk about a team you don’t watch.
Reed was only better on offense, his defense was much worse, there’s a reason he played less than 20ppg
His defense was not worse than Duren’s in the playoffs.
I was with you wil that last part.
It’s true, Duren is still expanding his game and just had an all nba season at 22.
Ausar doesn’t look like he will ever be able to shoot over 30% from 3. We have had plenty of elite defensive specialists before in this league, very rarely do they demand \(30m, especially with today’s crazy competitive cap situation. If Ausar doesn’t expand his offensive game quickly, his contract at like \)30m would be worse than Duren at $38m.
If his offensive game doesn’t improve he’s not getting $30 million. He only plays 26 mins a night anyway.
What do you mean? He is getting paid this offseason after Duren’s contract…he will get it without having improved his offense
I mean that’s a lot more than the other defensive specialists make.
I know…it’s going to be a contract that should be more controversial than Duren’s, but for some reason people aren’t treating it that way.
Dyson Daniels got $25 million a year. I think it’ll be a little more than that.
i have questions about ausar sure. duren not so much but thats because duren’s skillset is basic with a limited ceiling in that his game doesnt expand beyond the fundamentals of his position, hes not extremely tall to where he can swing playoff series adding nothing else to his game. with ausar you dream big about his upside and its worth that risk, and hes already giving you s tier perimeter defense.
He’s also a fouling machine
One of Ausar’s biggest issue to me is the free throws, I think he could be a much better scorer if he is able to hit free throws, he doesn’t attack the basket how he should because he doesn’t want to get fouled.
I’d much rather have Ausar than Duren though
Yep he’s still a blank canvas that people feel they can project this fantasy of “he’s gonna start shooting 3s watch him in practice!!”. That stops when expectations come which come through $$. And really his offensive issues it’s not even about no 3s as much as just total lack of skill in a way that translates in game settings, his passivity and lack of confidence when he’s not ghost cutting or doing DHOs to Duncan Robinson is blatant
The number of skills heading into year 4 he has to improve upon substantially offensively(at a rate he hasn’t come close to showing so far) to be a 2nd best player on a team that is actually a serious title contender is enormous. Very very little precedent of it in nba history
The contract discussions here around Duren and Ausar are weird considering Pistons without hesitation offered the max to Austin Reaves, another playoff dropper with sus defense.
Reaves can score a basket from farther than five feet out.
That’s what guards do
Ausar might be the best perimeter defender post Spurs Kawhi lol. Also really good help and team defender
Given how limited his offense is(teams free safetied him all playoffs) I’m really curious to see what his extension ends up being.
too bad he cant shoot a lick
in todays game u gotta be able to shoot SOMEWHAT to win it all, thays why a good PIstons team ceiling is limited
Without a jumper or a high percentage slashing game he’s a rich mans thybulle
Thybulle is 37% from 3 on 3.5 attempts a game the last 3 seasons
If Ausar could do that the pistons would give him 60m a year if they could lol
Very rich
you can get away with it if you can effectively pressure the rim, and while ausar has room to grow there, with his athleticism he’s able to do that effectively. it’s just that having more than one player like that on the floor at once causes issues, and Duren isn’t a shooter.
And to properly put pressure on the rim, as a starter with no shot, you need a tight and concise attacking handle.
Nah if they trade duren and get a spacing center he’s 10x more playable. Imagine KAT on the pistons
KAT is a super unique player though. He’s possibly the best shooting center of all time. Who else would you have in mind? That Knicks team is kind of an illustrative example of what it might look like with a shooting center. Josh Hart is a much better offensive player and shooter specifically, than Thompson, but teams put a big man on him regardless. They leave him open and still have that defender to defend the rim. That Knicks offense has a ton of talent, too to help make it easier to play with someone who is often defended as if he were a non-shooter.
Something else with these shooting centers, I think they’re sometimes not as scary to the defense as it seems. A lot of them aren’t necessarily taking that many threes. Even KAT, he’s not really taking that many threes. Maybe with a player of his reputation you still get that level of floor spacing, but it’s just something I’ve thought defenses feel they can handle (at least when that 5 man is next to a non-shooter).
Doesn’t have to be KAT level stretch 5 imo. I think a Bucks title run Brook Lopez for example would work. From 2021 to 2023 shot league average from 3 (which is obviously better than average for a 5) while being a really great rim protector (even if thats all he did defensively, which you can get away with an all time great wing defender).
And the thing is, not only is he a terrible shooter, but he was almost a total non-shooter last season. He put up 24 threes total on 25%. A wing in the modern NBA that doesn’t even try to shoot is almost unheard of. His brother at least put up 1.5 threes a game, albeit at an abysmal 22%. If I’m the Pistons and Rockets I’m locking both those boys in the gym with a shooting coach all summer.
Hiring these big name shooting coaches that seems to be exactly what they are both doing.
Exactly, if you’re building a championship squad you’d take a guy like Josh Hart over Thompson because he can at least knock down an open shot even if he isn’t on the same level defensively.
The brother is so bad on offense teams literally don’t guard him. Now he crashes the boards to get tip ins but if all he does is defend and rebound that’s a problem. Like that’s not a starting caliber player in today’s NBA. How many specialists actually contribute to winning teams as starters. This isn’t the 90s anymore.
Ausar is obviously a bad shooter and that is a big deal, but his defense does create some offense and he’s improving as a ball handler and passer.
I think saying he’s not a starting caliber player is absurd though considering how good his defense is. On the right team his defense would be huge and his offensive issues could be hidden. Having both of them starting though could be a huge issue.
Ausar isn’t just a good defender, he’s the best defender in the league outside of Wembanyama. He’s the best on ball defender in the league and could win multiple DPOYs if Wembanyama happened to not be in the league. Ausar could easily start for a championship team as long as he’s not expected to be a major offensive threat.
The problem with Ausar is how his total lack of offense severely limits the team build. Yeah, he could start for a championship team, but probably not with another non-shooter.
This. Ausar is totally fine as a starter, but not with Duren. We really need shooters at the other 3 spots with him and Cade.
How you gonna not except offensive threat from 35mil player?
You gonna need lot of Daniss Jenkinses.
I assume Ausar will at least be cheaper than Duren for that reason. I mean Ben Wallace sucked on offense, but was still a incredibly valuable player. Ausar could win multiple DPOYs if it wasn’t for Wembanyama.
i think there’s gonna be a lot of amazing defenders this generation that just fall victim to wemby tax. ausar, scottie, CMB, chet, bam (though he did have prior chances), maybe even guys like dort, OG, and cason, are all players that could feasibly have a shot at the award but it’s hard to imagine it happening unless wemby gets injured
Maybe so, but Ausar is the best outside of Wembanyama who is an outlier. People trying to pretend like he’s not a valuable player in today’s NBA are absurd.
He’s like the wing version of Gobert. Extremely valuable defense but serious offensive limitations. You really have to build around him to really minimize that weakness but if you do he can be a big winning contributor. They really just need a center who can at least space the floor enough that the defense can’t sag off 2⁄5 players on the court for the Pistons.
oh yeah i didn’t mean to say ausar was run-of-the-mill in that regard, he is an insane defender and almost any team would be happy to have him
Everyone knows he’s a great defender, but I still think his defense is underrated because of Wembanyama. If Wemby wasn’t in the league Ausar would win multiple DPOYs and the narrative would be different. People would be saying that of course you have to keep the best defensive player in the league. Now he’s “just” the #2 guy.
Yeah he’s a bad shooter, but he isn’t that bad at creating offense through his steals, ball handling, and passing. Once again, I’m not saying he’s a great or even good offense player, but he does enough to make him a valuable player.
He probably won’t ask for or demand what Duren wants in salary. I think he knows his limitations. I don’t think he’s delusional like Duren who thinks he’s worth a max deal. If I had to choose between Duren on a max deal or Ausar on a kind of big deal right now I’m choosing Ausar. Ausar is the one with an elite talent which Duren doesn’t currently have. I also trust Ausar more than Duren to not just rest on his laurels.
Ben Wallace played Center 20 years ago.
Bit different from wing in 2026.
I personally think you just cant win in playoffs playing one man less on offense. Cavs had no business winning that series but they did it by just letting Ausar lockdown one player. He cant roam or help on defense like Wemby or Ben Wallance because he is not a center.
Cavs said : Lets just play 4v4 on offense. We will be playing 5v4 in defense anyways.
And they won. Ausar was -27 in game 4. Game they lost by 9 points.
He is incredible for 11million. But for ~30million i think he is just too bad on offense.
I don’t think there is a team where his lack of offensive skill would not be a significant problem for their offense. A guy like Josh Hart can be hidden to some extent, but he’s on a great offensive team and has a much superior offensive skillset.
I buy Thompson as an elite perimeter defender and that his defense supports the offense with transition opportunities. I don’t buy that a perimeter player is the second best defensive player in the league. If he was a center, these issues would be so much smaller and his defense would be magnified to an even greater degree, but we have to acknowledge positional value here.
Ausar is especially lauded because he’s an elite point of attack defender who makes huge contributions in team defense too. That second part isn’t as common among wing defenders, and why his defense gets compared to Kawhi.
He is our help defense more than Duren is.
People hate this take because he’s a fun player and people like the Pistons but I fully agree and I’m waiting patiently to be proven wrong.
We haven’t seen a non big defense first - no offense wing start on a title winning team since IDK when. Like Rodman with the Bulls isn’t even a wing but he’s the last non offensive threat non center on a title team. You have to be Josh Hart levels as a shooter at the minimum to be able to stay on the floor. The Pistons had stretches where they had to bench Ausar for other players to get enough offense on the floor. Now if the Pistons had a stretch 5 that would be one thing because then Ausar can be your center on offense in the dunker spot. But how many legit 2 way stretch 5s our there. Ausar is maybe worth 20 million a year. Maybe. But one way players just don’t get paid starter money and if they do its instantly a horrible contract that can’t be traded.
He‘s probably a rare case of a player that could still be a winning player on a winning team even without the shooting BUT that means you need more shooting around him. I think compensating for his lack of offense is worth it because he is genuinely THAT good on defense. Not to mention that he can handle the ball and playmake a bit + slash
Dennis Rodman got some great contracts… just saying
rodman was the best rebounder of the modern era if not of all time and played in an era where a non-shooting 4 was the default, while ausar is merely a very good wing rebounder and is playing in an era where having a wing who can’t shoot is sort of a death sentence
Yeah, modern defenses can be incredibly dishonest if you have a anemic perimeter player. Playing 4v5 on offense in today’s league is so annoying, especially when you may have to play Wemby or OKC defense lol
that was 30 years ago though. the contract landscape has changed a ton in the second apron offensive revolution era.
Ausur just needs to figure out how to be the best rebounder ever.
More durable Andre Roberson with better PR
This is both true and not good for the Pistons? Ausur Thompson’s offensive limitations are too severe for him to be your second best player barring a major leap. I get they don’t want to pay Duren/Thompson some 80 million between them but it’s not like Detroit has many viable alternative options - and even in a “star trade” push, the other team is going to ask for one of them so you need them as a larger contract to match salaries for a star.
I mean their best player is cade, no ones debating the number one
That concerns me about both Thompson brothers. Their athleticism and defense is clearly elite, but everyone keeps assuming they’ll find a better offensive game.
If they don’t develop a shot or something, there’s gonna reach a point where teams will have to ask themselves, “am I going to give max money to dudes with this level of offensive limitation?”
They’re young and could develop, but it’s definitely not a guarantee, and there are plenty of historical examples to support that.
Amen averages nearly 8 more ppg, and actually shoots free throws decently.
He also played on a team with no PG and had a lot of ballhandling duties and usage as a pseudo PG while Ausar played with Cade
Amen has always been the better player. That’s why he went higher and why he was always ranked higher on mock drafts even before he was picked. Amen always had more offensive game as a potential ball handler whereas Ausar didn’t have that.
At least Amen can do something with the ball in his hands. So as the pseudo PG he has some value
What’s with the question mark. No one’s saying it’s good for the pistons.
You have to choose between them honestly and the tricky thing is if you go with Thompson you have to find a stretch big somehow otherwise your lineups are cooked with the lack of spacing.
I don’t think he’s going to get paid like our second best player though. People are making this sound like Duren and Ausar are getting the same contract and they’re not. Ausar is going to get a contract like McDaniels.
Be the best player? I don’t even think you can start a guy on a contender with offense that limited
2nd best
I feel like people like the idea of Ausar better than the actual player
As a Knicks fan, I wasn’t worried about the pistons because Ausar is so ass on offense. Thats a major limitation. End of the day, all your guys have to be able to shoot from somewhere to stay on the court.
Not just that but the talent gap was always gonna be an issue too. I’d say almost any of the Knicks starters would be the second best player on the Pistons.
talent gap perhaps, but its also above all else an enormous experience and continuity gap. knicks paid their dues with several years of heartbreak. being patient can pay dividends.
This says more about Duren then it does Ausar.
Durens game has shown significant growth.
There is a very real chance Ausar has peaked, he legit hasn’t shown any meaningful growth on offense.
Yea I don’t buy the Ausar Hype whatsoever, fine player. But not a star and will propably be severely overpaid if the contact in the 20s or more per year
I agree that Duren could still grow as a player, but I disagree that Ausar hasn’t improved as well. Ausar has improved as a ball handler and is a decent passer. Improving his shot would make all the difference in becoming a great player, but you can’t count on it happening.
But if he can become even an average player on offense his defense makes him incredibly valuable. He’s the best defender in the league outside of Wembanyama. Personally I think having a top 2 defender in the league is more valuable than a guy who is relatively mediocre at best and can’t get his own shot.
I’m not saying either will become a superstar, but I don’t think either of them have reached their peak.
If this is all Ausar ever becomes I’d still keep him over Duren
Buddy never heard of roles. Ausar was averaging 14 and 5 in the first 10 games as a secondary ball handler before JB handed the keys over to daniss after his ankle injury
Because a 10 game sample size is clearly indictive of what happens in a full season
Lol
Well no one said that either. But you can’t say a players peaked on offense when he’s shown flashes in a more on-ball role and is only getting like 6 shots a game
He is the starting 2⁄3, and only averages 3ish assists per game.
He only takes 6 shots per game because he can’t shoot lol
It says more about the pistons org than anything else.
Duren is 22 and he’s very clearly a “dominate shitty bigs and meh against good ones” type guy.
Not a stretch to think that he’s going to be a t10 guy who starts dominating good ones in 3-4 years.
Obscene that they don’t buy into his potential. I haven’t heard that he’s lazy or a pusc or anything like that either so there’s no chance that it’s an Ayton situation.
I’d get it if Duren is your potential center piece, but they are on Cades timeline. Can’t afford to gamble too much and waste years of his prime
He’ll get better every year and will cost like 40 mil. That’s not a bad contract, and there isn’t any real 2 on the market that wouldn’t cost Cade
It’s easy to say he’ll get better every year when you aren’t the one having to sign him to that kind of money
He’s 22 though in a position that peaks at 26.
Peaks in terms of athleticism. Duren still has the same strengths and weaknesses as he did in college. Fine player, mid 20s mil per year for that kind of guy. Because of center scarcity, somewhere in the 30s seems reasonable.
The discourse around him has been some of the most befuddling I’ve ever seen. How do you play at an All-NBA level for 70 games just to now be treated like you’re shit for a bad playoff run- at 22 years old?
I’m begging y’all to watch games instead of just stat read.
He wasn’t really a t5 big man in the league, but yeah it’s not a stretch that he gets there in 3 years
Because its very obvious that his improvement is mainly just a product of Cade being as good as he is.
When the playoffs came round and teams were limiting easy buckets around the rim and making him make quicker decisions with the ball he looked lost.
It’s shit on Duren season all summer long
He got that dung ball rolling
That’s pretty bad if Ausar Thompson is the second best player on your team.
Somehow they won 60 games and were 1 game away from the conference finals. It’s not bad to me. They still have flexibility to improve the roster even with that.
Ya I doubt they reach close to that this season. People forget that last years east were a tad beat weaker with so many injuries and rebuilding teams.
Also a game away from being out in the first round.
Nope
Ausar’s defense is something that entire opposing teams need to plan against. The problem is that his offense requires no such preparation to face. Still consider him better than Duren tho.
Ausar’s a complete dead zone on offense. He might have been more crippling to their offense than Duren in the playoffs.
I’m kinda of the opinion that in 2026 you cannot have a starter who is a total negative on either side of the ball and be a true contender, everyone has to be able to do a little bit on each end. It’s not a coincidence that the Wolves are at their best when Rudy gets some putbacks and PnR buckets. The exception to this is small guards who are unbelievable on offense.
Yep. The Cleveland series completely turned when the Cavs figured out you could just not guard him at all, not even a token effort. They had a free safety on defense for the last 3-4 games.
We figured that out immediately in our series. Jalen Suggs was just standing at the free throw line ignoring Ausar in the corner so ehe could help on Cade’s drives.
The Cleveland series turned because they didn’t call a foul that would have put us 3-2 up
In 20 playoff games Ausar is a plus 10 in plus minus
In 20 playoff games Duren is a -34 in plus minus
Ausar is ignored on one end of the floor in the playoffs. He can’t be the second best player on a real team.
I don’t recall Duren really stepping up
Probably because there was an extra player roaming in the paint because they just ignored Thompson.
Holy shit, I can’t believe y’all have turned me into an Ausar defender. Blaming Ausar for Duren is just insanely dumb. I’ve never seen an all NBA player get coddled like this.
Probably because Duren isn’t that good
Duren is skinny Drummond, he’s not gonna age well and already moves like he’s made of wood
big muscles 4 nothin
He’s nowhere near skinny and is 22 years old, they don’t need to worry about how he ages at the moment
I feel like Ausar’s offense is not getting held against him properly.
I’ve seen Jalen Suggs basically ignore him for an entire series and blow up the pistons offense for 7 straight games
Everyone with eyes who is unbiased can see it. It’s a massive massive issue that Pistons fans can’t quite comprehend.
Right? His defense is excellent, but he is one of the worst offensive players in the league. Duren had one really bad playoff series, and that definitely counts against him, but there is a very large sample size of him being a more impactful player then AT, all things considered
I can agree ATs offense is bad but the Jalen Suggs example is awful. Suggs was fucking horrendous that series, maybe aside from one good defensive game.
The path for Ausar’s improvement is so much clearer than Duren’s. He can cut, he can handle the ball, he has decent vision. He has a really good feel for the game, but he just can’t do the game’s most important skill and he’s hesitant to try.
I don’t think Duren has a good feel for the game. His game is robotic and he gets confused with spacing, even when Ausar is on the bench. Adding a consistent shot would be great but it wouldn’t change his slow foot speed and mediocre defensive awareness.
There are lumbering bigs like Brook Lopez who became dominant defenders as they got older so that’s possible for Duren. But the list of wings who learned to shoot later in their career is much longer than the list of bigs who learned to defend later in their career.
ausar is going to turn some heads this season. he is unreal. people fixate on the shooting but realistic improvements with his handle and strength will have him collapsing defenses and finishing at the rim
Duh
And it’s absolutely true. To me it isn’t even close, if Thompson can develop any kind of shot this wouldn’t even be any kind of debate.
With that being said, I love Duran and want him on the Pistons.
TBF it’s a huge If, regardless of summer workout videos.
Agreed, I still put him over Duran. His defense is just that special.
Well yeah that “if” is a pretty massive condition. Yea it would be nice if the 4th year wing had even a high school level perimeter offensive game…right now he is a defensive role player who is miles from being even an average offensive player.
His defensive is enough.
It is not…
Yup, exact same with Amen too - if either one (or both) of the twins ever develops any kind of offense, they’re getting PAID
Do you have Thompson over him if he doesn’t develop any semblance of a shot? That seems like a real possibility.
It’s interesting to me, too, that Thompson “just” developing a shot could do a lot to make both of these guys worth the money they want for Detroit.
I do, His defense is game changing. He is also learning to pass and honestly is an absolute joy to watch.
Hard to see a one way perimeter player being this valuable while not being guarded by the other team. I agree the other offensive skills are valuable, but there’s a limit on that if there isn’t a shooting component for the defense to react to in the first place.
Maybe that says more about Duren if that level of player is still more valuable than him, but I also think Thompson not being guarded makes things tougher on Duren so they’re connected in that way.
At this point it would be extremely surprising if either Thompson twin becomes even a 32% 3 pt shooter imo
They both looked terrible on offense in the playoffs
It’s always fascinating to see these kinds of threads on this sub compared to the team sub. Pistons fans really overrate Thompson.
After not seeing Pistons in regular season and watching all their playoff games, I think Ausar is special and Duren is a complete disaster. Obviously both were part of a regular season juggernaut, so not completely writing off Duren.
With a stretch big, Ausar could play in the dunker spot and crash boards. You can have a top tier offense with one complete zero shooter - see Charlotte - as long as the non shooter crashes the glass and is available at the rim at the right times.
Ausar just pops in so many ways and contributes to a top tier defense, which gives you a shot. With Cade you have the most important piece to a top offense. See why they can’t overpay Duren - they need to trade him for the missing piece off ball scorer
Truth
So why not pay them both? Either you want Duren or you don’t.
Paying 3 players top money is kinda hard in the new cba lol.
I feel you but at what point do you cut your losses if you feel one of them isn’t worth it? I mean, Boston just had to make a tough decision with JB for the similar reasons
I mean they need to make a decision asap on which one to keep imo
Define top money.
25%+ of the cap.
25% of the cap is over \(40m, Duren will be under than and the I’d bet Ausar ends up close to \)30m.
Well, we’ll see!
Gotta leave room for the offer the Dubs make next off season as an RFA or it will put you in the second apron to match.
maybe they should try playing him like 2021-2022 gp2 always lurking in the dunker spot or cutting backdoor. But yeah unfortunately for detroit, if dyson is making 25m, ausar probably wouldnt take less than low 30s
Potential is cashing a lot of checks
Pistons gonna be the second team to fumble a franchise center in the same free agency.
Duren, Watson, and Kuminga are probably screwed. League is mostly done moving for the summer. They’ll probably have to accept a discount if they want to leave their current teams.
2nd best :o is kinda cap
Consolation prize 🤡
The Pistons still don’t have a true #2 option. They need one to win a championship. Cade Cunningham is an excellent top ten player who clearly needed help in the playoffs, and still almost made the conference finals by himself. Their team was terrible offensively. John Collins is a good add for sure but they need a second star.
Like with Duren, it all depends on the amount. But I do think Ausar is a more impactful player than Duren is right now despite his flaws on offense. That was especially evident in the playoffs where Ausar was a clear difference-maker that the team missed when he sat due to foul trouble while Duren was close to unplayable for long stretches.
Duren should not have been an all star, let’s be serious. He’s definitely not the second best player on that team.
Playoff plus minus for Ausar is a +10, for Duren it’s a -34.It’s not even arguable who the better player is even with Ausar’s offensive limitations.
I don’t even want to keep Duren.
Ausar is so fucking overrated.
QO
Thompson twins are overrated. Give me a Caruso any day of the week.
What are people on about? Compare him to Tony Allen. Their lack of offensive games are similar and Tony Allen was a better defender. At his best Tony Allen was a good role player on good teams. But he was never someone you would build around as one of your 2 or 3 main pieces. You could build a team around Duren as one of your guys. Might not be a championship team, but it’d be a playoff team. Thompson? Not so much.
Ausar will go down as a better defender than Tony. He’s freakishly athletic, at least as strong, and 2 inches taller. Better shot blocker and rebounder, just equaled Tony’s highest steals per game of his career in year 3 and his on-ball defense and screen navigation is elite.
Maybe, but he isn’t better than Tony Allen at the moment. And there isn’t much room to be a lot better than Tony Allen. At best it would be marginal. And the rest of the point still stands.
he is better than Tony Allen
I think you could very well make an argument that this season he just peaked higher as a defender than Tony Allen.
The idea with Ausar is the upside, what skills can he add? Because he’s also got the tools to have more juice attacking the rim and creating for others. If he never improves beyond this season he’s already better than Tony, but he might get even better than this.
Only if you were the most homeristic of homers. But I like how you just assumed that your off the wall take would be accepted so you could argue use it to argue your point.
And like I said, even in your delusion, if you think Thompson is better than Tony Allen on defense, its marginal. And the rest of my original point still holds true. You cannot have a defense only wing as a centerpiece for a playoff team.
Who says you can’t, they were 1 game away from the conference finals where Duren averaged single digit stats, and Tobias Harris with Duncan as his supporting cast lmao. It’s like saying you can’t win a championship with Rudy Gobert just because you hate his face
Duren obviously was a disaster in the playoffs. But a good regular season player that had a horrendous playoffs is a better bet to build around than a role player who played like a role player.
The best perimeter defender in the league is not a role player. Is Rudy Gobert a role player?
Comparing a defensive center to a defensive wing is asinine and shows a giant lack of understanding on how basketball is played.
There’s nothing to discuss here, calling Ausar a role player is nonsense
He just finished 3rd in DPoY voting lol, it’s not a homer take. His defensive metrics and eye test were both absurd, even moreso in the playoffs. You’re ignorant now but will learn eventually.
Ausar might be th most overrated player in the league. He single-handedly kills your offense. His defence is kinda overrated; he is amazing defending smaller guys but he cannot usually guard up against the better bigger wings and forwards in the league.
His defense is not overrated lol. He may not be an all world on-ball perimeter defender for all body types, but his entire tool kit definitively is elite.
Elite rim protection for a wing. Elite hands off the ball. Elite recovery. The guy is a one man wrecking crew on defense in a way that you can’t scheme around. Cleveland just quit having anyone attack him in any way.
What a goofy way to think about the player like him. He is a good cutter, he is a good passer, he can handle the ball. He’s the best perimeter defender in the league, he is a great rebounder, great shot blocker, he is the best stealer in the league. He’s the best in the league at his position at a bunch of things, he can’t be overrated lol. What do you mean he can’t defend bigger players, there is no such player who can be a fast POA defender and defend bigs at the same time
“he can’t be overrated” lol what a goofy way to think about a player. The true elite wing defenders can do both; e.g. OG. I think you might be too dumb to understand how damaging a perimeter player like ausar is on offence.
It’s too dumb to think about the game in such a limiting way. The basketball isn’t only about getting buckets. He creates a ton of points because of steals, offensive and defensive rebounds, blocks. He is a smart player and a good passer. It’s very simple to verify this if you dedicate a bit of time looking into the stats, like on offs with different lineups and etc. You also don’t understand why this pistons team won so many games and did well last season despite their bad offense with lame supporting cast in Duncan and Tobias. Ausar was one of the main reasons for their success.