[Charania] There have been a combination of pick-centered packages and player-centered packages offered for Peyton Watson by Cleveland, Milwaukee, and the LA Clippers.
Does anyone else think that whatever contract he’s about to sign is going to be called one of the worst contracts in the league by next year?
Probably since this is always one of the top comments on any post about him. I think he’ll be a good starter for about a decade, and as long as the contract isn’t over 25M AAV it’ll be a fine deal.
So $25m for a “good starter” is fair value?
Edit; thanks for the replies.
Edit2: all the downvotes for asking a question? And it’s not like people are disagreeing. It’s almost unanimously a yes
yes?
Yeah. Isaiah Hartenstein just got a 2-3 year deal averaging $25m per year. He’s a good starting center but never an All-Star.
Yes. What year do you think it is
Yep. Starting salary would be in the low 20s. John Collins is making 17 M for reference.
And John Collins is a good starter lol you could cherry pick any example in the world to support the sentence you just said…and you chose to immediately contradict it.
How is that contradictory? Good starters have range of value given their positions abilities age etc.
Peyton Watson is a more valuable archetype and a younger player. Did you think every good starter would have the same salary?
The question was whether $25m is a fair deal for a good starter
You said it would be low 20’s
You provide evidence by showing a strong starter at $17m
lol
Why not just take the time to find an example that lines up with what you’re trying to argue 😂 it’s not egregious it’s just funny that you just picked the first thing you thought of even though it didn’t really align to what you said.
I just thought of a guy off the top of my head who signed this offseason and is a similar tier of player. Should have known someone would weirdly nitpick an inconsequential point though, that’s on me 😔
lol just poking fun, it’s just funny to state a rule of thumb and voluntarily offer an example that doesn’t align to it.
“Typically NBA centers are at least 6’10 or taller, for example CMB is 6’7”
It does align, I’m glad you got this many laughs outta this weird interaction tho
lol they blocked me
Easily. For 2026-2027 season that’s 15% of the cap FWIW.
All salaries should be reported with the percentage of the cap in addition to the dollar figure
Correct
Yes. Christian Braun for instance is making $25m and no one thinks that’s an overpay that’s significantly hampered the Nuggets chance to compete for a title and forcing them to make a whole bunch of bad moves just to try and stay afloat.
Oh, no wait.
Unfortunately CB was nowhere close to a “good starter” this past season. Hopefully it was just nagging injury, but he was not good by any measure
Right. Isn’t that the concern with Watson? You pay another guy \(25m who should be on \)12-18m and you’re dead in the water.
Preaching to the choir on the value of Watson, who really only has one month to show for. I’m just saying that $25M is absolutely good value for a good starter. I think CB had shown enough to warrant that contract, and if he gets back to that quality I’ll still think that’s a good deal.
But he was when he signed the deal.
Once he’s healthy there’s a decent chance he can get back to that level
Yes, you have mfs on here saying he’s better than McDaniels, Camara, and Dyson Daniels (all-league defenders) because he had ONE good month in his 4 year career.
Then the same crowd who gassed him up will shit on him when he isn’t averaging 20
He can only get so much due to his situation and he’s shown enough to be a starting caliber forward and he’s still young. Even if he doesn’t fit with his new team another team would probably take a chance after
Has he really shown enough? Hes had 1 above average month with an increased usage.
Whoever signs him is 100% taking a gamble that it was real and not a mirage
Shown enough to do what? Be a star? Probably not. Make 35 mil? Probably not but to be a solid starter? Yea considering his age. Anyone who signs him probably wants a solid wing with the upside to be more. Even if that’s a low chance.
He already been a good backup wing for a good team
I think he is likely to end up in either extreme, if that glimpse we saw was real, he could be a true star and the contract will be a steal.
But there’s a real chance he can’t live up to it either.
He’s interesting because he’s actually a really good defender so if his jumper stays, he’ll likely be a very good player. I also read here his best games were without Jokic so he may be able to play without him.
Other Nuggets guys like Bruce Brown or Braun are undersized so when they can’t shoot they’re almost unplayable. Watson has a higher floor but also higher ceiling imo.
Just to provide more context, Watson’s hot streak was only for 1 month. He played against relatively weak opponents.
Braun is 6’6” and bulkier while Watson is 6’7” and lankier.
Not necessarily. If it’s around $20-25 mil / yr I think that’s fine for a legit 3&D starter level wing who still has an untapped offensive game. But I’m like Masai I’ve got a preference for high quality 2-way role player wings.
I think it really just depends if the 3pt shooting holds up or not. I’m not super high on him, but get the appeal given wings with size and athleticism will always be in demand.
Yep he also has 3 hamstring injuries at 23 yrs old. It’s a high risk.. not so much high reward.
Yes. He showed promise but he wasn’t an elite defender every second he was on the floor. He also had moments where he didn’t try when he wasn’t being fed the ball.
I think he can be a good player on a good team but I wouldn’t be surprised if he turns out like Jerami Grant did where he would rather be the main guy on a mediocre team during his prime
I mean it’s probably not gonna be worse than Brauns contract so I think it’s unlikely.
You make it sound like he’s gonna get some insane bag and be probably won’t. He’ll probably get “very good role player” money
Seems like the clippers aren’t worried about being docked their picks from the investigation…
Can’t get docked your picks if you trade them first!
If they trade all the ones they’re allowed to trade, Silver could theoretically take away picks far enough in the future that they’re not traceable yet
Rescinding preschoolers is tough work, but someone’s gotta do it.
with the Stepien rule, they’ll still have picks. It’ll just be worse picks
trading the picks beforehand is fair game. unless the NBA says any clippers picks in the deal could be voided in the future and Denver backs out of it.
What im getting at is if they trade 2 firsts and then the nba docks 2 other firsts that future looks way more bleak than rn
I think that’s what is probably holding everything up. The Clippers can’t trade any picks with a pending investigation. Can’t trade with them if the league could void the picks. Why take the risk?
A strategy could be to go about business as usual and create a mess for nba to untangle
I actually think this is specifically what is holding up a trade. They may be like, hey we might be able to offer this but we have to see how that investigation concludes…
Clippers using all of the credit realizing the bank can’t take away nothing from them.
I think it’s the opposite. I think they are do everything they can to trade every pick they can before they take them away. The league should be telling teams to be prepared to deal with those picks being taken away.
Struggling to find any new information here.
Clicks don’t generate themselves
There are 2 types of Shams tweets:
Insiders are the sideline reporters of the internet
peyton watson could get traded for a guy, or for a pick and a guy. Or maybe he won’t get traded? Join us tomorrow for more updates on the peyton watson saga. Coming up next: is Giannis hinting that he wants out of Miami?
What else would packages consist of?
cash considerations
Da real goat
His jersey is retired in the United Center. True NBA legend
No Bull will wear the “$” jersey ever again
Dolla Dolla bulls y’all
I think what he’s trying to say is that those three teams have been offering either players or picks. Not both.
Their holding out for a nougat-centered deal
A seed to plant a tree
Copy/fax machines
Seems unlikely the nuggets pay him, no? They just don’t have the money
They could, they’d just have to live with the outcomes.
They could in the same way Dolan could’ve just paid Robinson but didn’t/won’t because their owner has a particular threshold they won’t exceed
I’m honestly surprised they haven’t tried to salary dump Zeke or Holmes to get under the 2nd apron but I’m guessing the plan is to do so via a sign and trade with Watson - though the first and second apron restricting S + Ts makes that…tricky after they were forced to match Spencer Jones offer sheet
Dolan is just a cheap fuck. The roster won a championship, you have the ability to run it back and add a late first round rookie…
Instead he lets Mitch walk and trades back multiple times to not have to pay a rookie either.
The 2nd apron penalties would not have affected the Knicks at all. It restricts adding more talent which they did not need to do and contracts would have been shed before the second apron pick penalties kicked in
yea refusing to enter the second apron right after your team wins the chip is ridiculous
They have levers to move money, they are just trying to do so without offloading any more of their own picks.
Naji and Cam are tradable. Braun likely is too, but they ideally keep him.
Naji and Braun would require capital to get off of which they don’t have much of, a few seconds is all the tradeable assets they have left afaik
Yeah it’s quite bare. They might just sign him, start above the 2nd apron, and hope one of those guys plays up to their contract and they can move them.
Their owners are some of the wealthiest people in the world. They can afford a lil tax bill from their side hustle.
It’s not really the cost of the tax bill that’s an issue anymore. There’s just overall roster and trade restrictions with the 2nd apron that teams want to avoid
I just mean they are already over the 2nd apron, but could get below. I’m of the opinion that teams should never spend consecutive years in the 2nd apron, so if they choose to go over this year and next year they will be mortgaging their future.
Kroenke has owned the Nuggets since 2000 and has paid $50M in luxury tax penalties TOTAL since then— in the last [almost] thirty years!
A tax penalty for one year that is more than the last 25 years combined would surely make him wince. It’s at \(84M right now if the Walker IV deal gets guaranteed. It could get as high as \)129M if Watson takes his QO or \(277M if Watson gets his desired \)25M AAV.
And the Nuggets have only been contenders for like 3 of those 26 years, the fuck you saving money for if it ain’t going on anything lmao
Their owners are some of the cheapest too.
I like him in Cleveland a lot. Perfect fit
Watson for Mobley who says no
Me I hope I got this in on time
You haven’t, sadly :( Mobley is on his way to the Nuggets!
Isaiah Mobley will show up in Denver
Curious how they would make that happen. A s&t would hard cap them at the first apron. They’re about $10M below that now, not counting Harden.
I imagine they’d have to send out Schroeder to some third team and strus/Merrill as well?
Would be interesting for sure
schroder to hornets (hornets gm likes him), watson to cavs, picks to nuggets. replace schroder with strus and hornets with any other team with cap space
Let’s make a deal already
I feel like nothing new has come out about this situation in weeks lol
Given the other signings the Nuggets have made, a trade for Watson seems inevitable. Hopefully we can get something good for him. I like Watson but I think anything over 20 mil will be an overpay, so I’m happy to make a (good) trade for him.
Interesting that multiple teams are calling. That usually means Denver has more leverage than people think.
I think it just means nobody is offering anything good because he’s the definition of a lottery ticket had one great month but has an injury history and nobody knows if it’s sustainable. Willing to pay him but not willing to offer significant assets.
Jokic deserves better. But atleast he got his ring I suppose.
Organic home grown ring means a lot. Jokic is in the history books. Means a lot more than some rings for sure. Same thing with Giannis. If these two never win again, it doesn’t matter.
Yep organic home grown. No rental trades. Just straight up development and a ring.
They’re still young too. Jokic is their oldest player at 31 yrs old. They have time to get another one..
Jokic and Watson needs another commercial. This time though Watson gets to talk.
[removed]
Isn’t Pwat an RFA? Nuggets literally have all the leverage.
Taking the qualifying offer is just too risky.
They could negotiate the 70 mil 5 yr offer to like a 2 year 80 like Kuminga did. And even if they do sign him close to what he wants, the 2nd apron tax doesn’t hit until end of season or trade dead line lol.
The Payton Watson saga is the new kuminga. Hopefully they can wrap it up soon
I’ve been seeing Peyton Watson at the Encino equinox almost every day this summer
Dang where my Blazers at?? Surely we aren’t done.. are we?? Sheeeeeet
Why?
No Detroit?
Never seen a bidding war for a player of Watson’s caliber
he’d be a great Wizard
Nuggets are the only team in the second apron at the moment. Their ownership has paid less in taxes in total across their 26 years than what they would owe for this season alone. Everyone on the other end of those phone calls know this. They are royally fucked.
clippers trying their best to add to their mid team oh my goodness 😭
For his own good, jokic should honestly tell nuggets he won’t resign and force a trade by deadline. This nuggets roster is going nowhere.
How would that benefit Jokic? Any team that could realistically pick him up would be in just as bad of a spot, if not worse, than the Nuggets
And he’d be losing out on the bigger contract he could sign with the Nuggets, which is the main reason he’s waiting to sign anyways. So he’d be losing money and going to a team in a similar position. People don’t really put any thought into their “Jokic wants out” theories
Who said he wants out - I said it would be better for his title hopes, he may not care that much. The nuggets roster has a 0% chance of a title with SAS OKC and wolves in front of them. If Gordon’s legs were healthy and Murray could be replaced with a better defender then maybe that goes up to 5%
Any team that could realistically pick him up would be in just as bad of a spot, if not worse, than the Nuggets
No? OKC could very easily send a monster, unbeatable package and still have a team that would wreck the shit out of the entire league.
It won’t happen because Jokic isn’t wired like that. He’ll just stay in Denver forever, provided they max him as they should. But if he wanted to, he could move into a monster. I wish he did lol…
And that’s disregarding a scenario where he just says fuck money and signed as a FA lmao. Half of the league would be prime contenders in that scenario
No they wouldn’t. Their depth is crazy, but to salary match and offload picks they’d have to lose too much real depth that Denver would actually want. Ihart + Caruso + one other contributor and like 7-8 picks.
Remember Rudy Gobert was traded for 5 players and 5 first round picks lol
Of course im disregarding the scenario where he declines one of the largest contracts ever in the NBA and loses out on \(70-\)80 million. Would honestly be fun as hell to watch if he did tho
Ihart + Caruso + one other contributor and like 7-8 picks.
So their starting 5 would be Shai-Cason-JDub-Chet-Jokic. Are you aware how insane that is? And they’d still have plenty of other good pieces on their roster…
Eh he kind of has them over a barrell if he wanted to go - they can’t let him walk for nothing and there are teams with lots of picks out there. I don’t think he’s that mercurial tho.
He’s not going to do that lol. He’s holding out because he’s about to take on the biggest contract in the league next season and his family has deep roots in Denver. Why does everyone think every star player is going to threaten their team lmao
He probably won’t - I said it would better for his title aspirations. He may very well not care that much.
He’s the oldest on the team and they make it to the playoffs every year.
Not sure how their window is closed yet lol.
Every postseason is a win win for him. Either he wins another championship or gets to go home and play ball with his buddies in Serbia.
What make you think Jokic cares??? He’s banking this money and will move back to Serbia when he’s done with the NBA.
I’m not saying he doesn’t want to win, he is ultra competitive but not to the extent he’s trying to impact franchises or rosters. Very similar to Steph in that regard. ‘Make sure the check clears and I’ll give you everything on game nights but I’m not LeBron.’ I’m not 5 year planning my path into ownership or a front office job.’