[Highlight] The foul call on Bill Laimbeer in the final seconds of Game 6 of the 1988 finals to give the Lakers the lead
You guys know how the Spurs blew it to the Heat in 2013 and then beat the brakes off the Heat the following year?
This was the original version of that
Very much so. I don’t know that the Pistons win the next 2 if not for this.
In a weird way, this 1988 Pistons team blowing this against the Lakers is oddly reminiscent of how they blew the series against Boston the previous year.
Another fun little tidbit, this 1988 Pistons team, the 89, and 90 Pistons were the teams to eliminate Jordan’s Bulls in the playoffs.
And Jordan took that personally.
He didn’t do anything about it, he just waited around for them to get too old to fight back and let the triangle offense work its magic.
to old? isaiah was 29 in 91. the bulls almost beat them in 90 and prob should have…i don’t think too old is the reason they lost.
rodman was also 28 or 29, salley was 26, and dumars was like 27. some of the bench guys were getting older…but come on. they were the #1 defense in the league that year still. they got swept and dominated, but they weren’t old. their time was just up.
Yes Isaiah was old. He spent most of the 1991 season injured and had surgery to fuse the bones together in his shooting wrist and would retire I think 2 years later. But again, you are right, he was in his prime when Jordan beat him….it was only Isaiah’s 11 of 13 seasons he played in the NBA and he was playing on a busted shooting wrist. John Salley?? John Salley! That is who you are claiming we look at? lol. Shows you know nothing about what we are talking about. John Salley was a bench player. That 7 points and 4 rebounds a game coming off the bench was just so valuable. The Pistons were not the best defensive team in 1991 either, they were the 4th. But you can try to say it was something else, but key starters from Detroit, like Isiah Thomas, Bill Laimbeer, and Mark Aguirre were battling accumulated injuries and the natural physical decline of an aging core. This is not today’s NBA. In the 90s, most players retired by 30 so yes, Isaiah was old by NBA standards when he lost to Jordan. And before you say, “Jordan played till 39 or Magic was playing at 37” keep in mind both of them sat out multiple seasons.
The only reason Isiah retired in ‘94 is because he tore his Achilles when this was still mostly a career ending injury and he didn’t want to go through with the rehab that would have been needed.
Not sure why you’re bringing up Magic, when it’s pretty much acknowledged by Magic and everybody else that he would have played several more years than he did if not for the HIV.
Yeah and when the Bulls got too old they….three-peated again.
Second 3 peat was definitely a super team level of help. First one was too almost Horace grant was nice af
And part of that superteam was rodman who was too old in 91 on the pistons????
Yes the guy who averaged 15 rpg and made Karl Malone score 4 less ppg in the finals yes that guy
So did he get younger between 91 and 97⁄98 or were the pistons not actually old?
If the 91 pistons were too old why were they younger than the 96 bulls?
That’s the thing that really kills me about Jordan Stans, they just conveniently forget all the teams he couldn’t beat until he had his own super teams.
those other teams were super teams of their own. those celtics and how many HoFers?
And you LeBron glazers have nothing original to speak about. All your talking points are half baked remarks pulled out of the arse of Klutch Sports paid stooges and fellow Gen Z dorks.
Michael Jordan lost to dynastic teams.
The Celtics were stacked with 5 Hall of Famers and won 3 Championships in 5 years in the 1980s.
The Bad Boy Pistons, who won B2B championships beat the shit out of him. Literally. Targeted him and got away with so much until the NBA finally and long overdue clamped down on it.
His “own super teams”? Did he colluded, bankrupt teams and then to other super teams? You want to talk about super teams and Jordan. Cool. Where was Pippen drafted? Where was Grant drafted? When did both become established stars? Was Rodman a guaranteed sure fire great signing at the time.
Here is one final couple of questions. How many all-stars did MJ play with in the 1980s, and in totality with the Bulls?
And don’t worry. I do not expect you to reply to any of them nor do I expect you to learn anything from the above even if you bother to look up what I asked. Ignorance is bliss. A tale as old as time.
I didn’t directly invoke LeBron, but…
Jordan did lose to dynastic teams and James defeated dynastic teams (spurs, warriors). He also played in a faster, and smarter NBA that the triangle offense couldn’t work in, which is evidenced by Phil Jackson’s attempt to implement it with the Knicks.
As for collusion, please, free agency is free agency. In a free market players can go where they please. I agree Jordan hadn’t had any all-star help in the 80s and I’m not blaming him for that at all, LeBron didn’t have any either the first stint in Cleveland. Jordan played alongside 13 all-stars or eventual all-stars in his career the most impactful being Pippen, Rodman and Kukoc. LeBron definitely has played with more all-stars but his career is longer and unblemished by premature “retirement” and enhanced by better sports science.
Idk like don’t get me wrong, Jordan was a great player and I was alive and cognizant during his reign but the NBA was definitely a worse game of basketball during his era and I think it’s more impressive to do what LeBron has done in the modern era.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub can see your angle. And you being a Heat fan, I get you owe so much of your team’s true relevance to LeBron joining your team with all due respect to D Wade.
Thanks for sidestepping most of my questions. That was predictable unlike you supposedly being around during the Jordan years. Your original comment screams Gen Z tbf.
LeBron ain’t doing shit in the 90s given the times. Jordan with modern sports science and medicine, shoes, ‘resting on defence’ and tagging out for games he didn’t want to play.. even going to Miami for 2 weeks during a season after looking rough to return looking like his prime suddenly, and of course a willingness to run and form superteams while stans champion a losing record in finals and prime being spent in a weak conference would own this league now.
I feel like you took this personally.
Dont forget expansion watered down the the competition
Yep. Losing Mahorn was a huge impact on the pistons, for example.
I know, he should have just jumped to another team…
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*MTV Rock n Jock veteran, Rick Mahorn.
Not likely. The Pistons were just worn down by that point. This was their 5th straight ECF, and they had been to the Finals 3 years in a row previously. Going that far in the postseason just wears the team down mentally and physically over time, it’s why it doesn’t happen very often. They had a bunch of small nagging injuries and they didn’t have the same fire, because they had already been there, done that.
1995 Orlando Magic beat Jordan’s Bulls, but people like to forget that.
I very much remember that, but we were talking about this time period, not all time. Bird’s Celtics also beat Jordan’s Bulls.
Then the bulls got a record breaking season the following year. Swept the magic, and won the championship. So what’s your point?
Really? Or do people like you make sure to mention it every single time?
And I’ll do it again.
Simpletons be simpletons.
When did he return during the season?
Do you have any grasp of sporting fitness?
And?
Edit: Just trying to see the relevance that’s all.
Ya, we read The Jordan Rules
Detroit was never in the series lead in 1987. They win this game against the Lakers and they’re champions. Completely different situations and not to mention they also kind of had a weird series of circumstances in the actual 87 Game 7 down the stretch.
Isiah’s turnover at the end of game 5 that resulted in the Celtics taking the lead in the final seconds and winning put the Celtics up 3-2 in that series. If that doesn’t happen - the Pistons are up 3-2 going home to Detroit. They did win game 6 in Detroit as well. I understand it’s a different series and game 6 is different if the Pistons are up 3-2, but that is very much reminiscent of how they blew the series the following year.
There’s a big difference between potentially going up 3-2 in a Game 5 of a series and closing out a series and losing on a phantom foul.
Even if they won Game 5 there was no guarantee they beat the Celtics in a Game 6.
Magic got hurt early in the series, not quite that
Magic and Byron Scott were injured, so the Lakers starting backcourt was out of the Finals against one of the best 3 guard rotations in the league at that time. Lakers had swept all the previous rounds getting to the Finals. A healthy Lakers team would have made for a fun series.
I would still favor Detroit to win, but I think we missed out on a good, potentially great series.
Still have nightmares remembering Magic grab his hammy. :(
He didn’t look so much in pain, as he looked like he was angry knowing he was done playing for the year.
Yeah the nightmares were because the series was over at that point. I looked up the results again after seeing this post and didn’t realize how close all of the games besides game 1 were.
And the lakers were home to play their 3 games in 3, 4, 5. Pistons got their payback from the spiteful basketball gods from the year before
The Pistons were deep. They had four starters-quality contributors coming off the bench. The Lakers had no real bench to speak of.
That was the difference. The injuries magnified it.
Magic and Scott… the Lakers were even better that year, swept the west playoffs. It would be like losing Doumars for the whole finals and Is iah halfway ish into game 2.
I’ll always argue the Lakers win in 89, but the starting backcourt got hurt
Nope. Not even close.
The Lakers in 1989 were humming. I think they went 3-0, 4-0 and 4-0 or something.
The Pistons were winning nail biters and went 4-3 in the ECF.
While Lakers were sitting around Riley had them so really hard practices simulating games.
As a result Magic and Byron both were injured early in the NBA Finals
Magic was so pissed, Riley was let go the next year.
You take away Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars from that 1989 team and they’d have been swept by the lakers.
You take away Magic and Kareem from that 1989 team and they’d have been swept by the pistons.
You see how stupid that sounds?
Magic and Scott, the two laker starting guards were injured after G1.
So of course Detroit swept them. And a few of the later games were kind of close until Detroit pulled away late.
“You take away the two best players on a team and they’re trash” gtfo of here man 😂
“If you take away Shaq and Kobe the Pacers sweep.”
I think our longer conference series’ may have had something to do with playing the Celtics and the Bulls. In the middle of a decade-long stretch where only they, us or the Lakers won the title.
Think Riley knew the East champ was a different animal
That’s fine.
But the 14 Spurs dominated the west.
Then bulldozed the Heat.
The Pistons won the ECF in 6 games and ended the playoffs on a 7 game winning streak.
even without Magic and Scott the games were close:
A REVIEW, WITH REVISIONS
The closeness of some of the losses only heightens the Lakers’ angst. Let’s take a quick review of the Series — it can’t take very long — and plug in the what ifs.
Game 1: It was the most lopsided loss of the Finals, 12 points, and it was the game in which Johnson played 41 minutes. Even with Scott, the Lakers would lose this one in Auburn Hills.
Game 2: The Lakers came back strong, until Johnson pulled up lame in the third quarter. L.A. scored only 13 points in the final quarter and, barely, lost 108-105. With just Johnson there, the Lakers don’t need James Worthy to make a free throw. They win and steal the Pistons’ home-court advantage.
Game 3: Back home in the Forum, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar put up his best numbers of a ceremonial season. They were not enough, L.A. losing another tight one, 114-110. Methinks a healthy Johnson and Scott could blunt the dominance of the Pistons’ guards enough to win this one.
Game 4: The Pistons wore down L.A.’s initial emotion surge, took over the fourth quarter and won 105-97. It is very possible to see this one going the other way in a perfect world.
Redraw the series like that, and, suddenly the Lakers are up 3-1 and entering Game 5 at the Forum on a full stomach.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/1989/06/15/lakers-inferiority-an-iffy-proposition/
Of all the fouls to call on him, this one was pretty soft lol Kareem getting that star treatment
One could definitely make the argument that it’s a foul based on the letter of the law, but the reality is if that’s a foul, Detroit’s entire starting 5 would’ve fouled out in the 1st quarter of every game they ever played. Kind of brutal to officiate one way for 47.5 minutes and then call a super soft foul like this
I think the fact that Bill Lambeer was one of the dirtiest most aggressive players in the league weighed into this foul call, too.
Yeah, any random foul call on Bill Lambeer had a good chance of being correct.
I think you mean shouldn’t instead of can’t. Because while I’m old enough to have watched Lambeer play and hate his fucking guts, the ticky-tack slight touch foul call we see here in a Finals game is pretty much just that.
They called fouls back then, they didn’t try to decide which fouls and violations they could ignore.
Then what did I just watch?
The end of Game 7 is my favorite part as somebody who has never seen the actual series. They just let half the city of LA on the floor for the final possession in a Game 7 like it was no big deal.
That’s crazy! I like how it clearly impacts the final possession, too – Laimbeer can’t even move because all the fans are crowding him out. And there are just people hanging out on the court on the other end, as well.
Magic also hip checks Isiah. Just imagine if that all happened today lol
Pistons were down by three, and Isiah wasn’t in the act of shooting. If there’s a foul called, he goes to the line to shoot two with less than half a second on the clock. Wouldn’t have made any difference.
I get what you’re saying but wild shit can happen like a FT make then intentional missing the second shot for a tip in.
In fairness, they’d done that previously with Boston IIRC.
It’s wild watching how fans would sometimes storm the court/field.
81’ ECF Game 7
84’ NBA finals
The Mets clinch the NL East in 86’
Chris Chambliss walkoff HR to send the Yankees to the 76’ World Series
Chambliss is fucking BOOKING it to get off that field as the crowd absolutely mobs him.
Nothing like hitting a homerun that 99% of baseball players can only dream of, and then having to run for your life for fear of being trampled.
Still happens regularly in football (soccer)
The band is on the field! Which ironically enough was also in LA.
If you’re referring to the famous Cal-Stanford game, that was in Berkeley, not LA.
This is the internet pal, I don’t let a few facts get in the way of a good story.
Genuinely speaking tho I didn’t go back and look who it was I remembered it being Cal vs a team in red and assumed it was USC.
He would have been fine – despite his arm not being vertical – if he hadn’t moved his body.
But he clearly jumps forward into Kareem’s shoulder as Kareem shoots.
100% a foul… you can see him shift Kareem in the air. So much so that Kareem stumbles when he lands. Classic Laimbeer (respect to him) where he puts his hands up and hip checks you low and maybe the ref doesn’t see it. This time he caught him in the shoulder right in front of the ref. The real proof it was a foul is that Laimbeer doesn’t protest.
Maybe the video is too grainy for your but Lambeer clearly hangs on Jabbars shoulder when he goes up for the hook.
Watch the finals seconds of game 7..crowd runs on the court with 2 seconds left, magic trips isiah..its a travesty
Two entire seconds left, Laimbeer’s pass was perfect even with the media and the entire Lakers team on the floor, plenty of time to at least attempt a three to tie the game, and a blatant foul by Magic. It was obvious everyone knew if they just started storming the court no one would do anything, and they got away with it. Pistons got hosed in front of everyone
Not correct. The clock ticks to one second as soon as Isiah catches the ball; he’s sprinting full speed at a right angle to the hoop 35 feet away, with the ball held high over his back shoulder, in no position to shoot. He’d never have gotten even a wild 3 off before the buzzer.
And he wasn’t shooting when the contact happened. If a foul had been called, Thomas would’ve been at the line shooting two with a fraction of a second on the clock & the Pistons down by three. They still lose.
The refs should’ve cleared the court, obviously. But the Pistons were still down three, needing to go 90 feet with barely over a second left. They lose 999 times in 1000 even without the crowd interference–and if by some miracle they hit a catch & shoot 3, it’s still just OT.
this is an all-time heartbreaker. i watched this game and game 7 recently. detroit led by 3 with a minute left. billy cunningham thinks it’s a legit call all the way through but maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan…absolutely brutal call to go against you. aside from the ray allen 3 i’m not sure a team has ever been so close to winning a title without actually winning it.
then of course isiah’s ankle swells up and he’s mostly ineffective in game 7…detroit still has a chance late in game 7…but rodman takes one of the worst jumpers of all-time and then LA fans storm the court with 2-3 seconds left and mucks up the last game-tying shot and no call. that no-call is much more egregious than this one even though this bump is much more infamous. it’s completely insane to re-watch in all honesty. i think the refs were just done with the pistons then.
Isiah Thomas in game 6 is one of the best Finals performance of all time.
43 points and 8 assist, 25 points in 3rd quarter (still an NBA finals record for points scored in a quarter) and doing all that on a bad ankle.
The refs not calling anything when the pistons were trying to inbound the ball was fucking wild.
The no-call on the Isiah/Magic contact made absolutely no difference. The clock ticks to one second as soon as Isiah catches the ball; he’s sprinting full speed 35 feet from the hoop with the ball held high over his back shoulder, in no position to shoot. He’d never have gotten even a wild 3 off before the buzzer.
If Laimbeer wasn’t a douchebag, yes it would be heartbreaking. But he was, so… Just karma?
On a more serious note, yes, it is fucked up when what we see today has had impact in basically whole NBA history.
that was a very soft foul with respect to how they called it back then
Sentence could have ended right at soft foul.
I get why Pistons fans are upset since the refs never call it, especially in the final minutes, but it is technically a foul, isn’t it? When Laimbeer makes contact with Kareem’s non-shooting arm?
Remember the era they were in….all kinds of contact was allowed then…. except when the NBA wants to make sure LA wins another championship.
Brother, I hate the Lakers – you won’t see me defend them lol
Compare and contrast the Laimbeer foul to the Magic non-foul hip-check with 2 seconds left on the clock in game 7.
For sure, we know they were biased one way
yes but also a travel by Kareem so they can be annoyed about that too
Definitely a foul
For that era, not even close. The 80’s was a bloodsport down in the box…not like the pussified NBA of today.
Perfect defense…. didn’t even touch him.
He’s clearly on Kareem’s shoulder, just a question of if it’s actually worth a call or not
Things get tricky when looking at officiating because there’s what is “officially” something, and what is normally allowed. So I’m not sure what should be the correct call.
For instance, MJ’s last shot in the 98’ finals, on Byron Russell. John Stockton said “he pushed off, but that’s not a foul. Pushing off is part of the game”
You joking? He bodies up against his shoulder when he is jumping. Clear foul. There’s a slow mo replay in this clip
He jumps toward Kareem (not vertical) and smears his chest into Kareems ribs as he is shooting. Looks like a clear foul to me. Foolish idea to leap forward like that.
NBA has always been WWE with better PR
highway robbery
One of the most controversial calls in NBA Finals history. Fans are still debating it decades later.
I’m surprised that nobody seems to have mentioned that Kareem got away with a travel here.
Between the shitty quality and the camera angle I can’t tell if that’s a legit call.
OK, the second angle shows it and it is a foul, but definitely feels like a weak one to call at that part of the game.
Refs and bailing out the lakers
Softer foul, wouldn’t be shocked to see the refs swallow their whistle on it… but I’m not one to have a ton of basketball pity for Laimbeer
That’s a foul but in terms of it being the last possession, that’s a soft call by ref standards. Maybe my biggest gripe with how the NBA is officiated is how physical they let players be late in games but then “betray” one team by calling the softest foul called in the entire 4th quarter on the last possession in the game. It doesnt happen that often but it happens. Basically always in favor of big markets historically and also Shai specifially in recent years.
soft foul, but yeah, a foul. Isiah with one of the greatest performances in NBA history, 25 in a quarter on a sprained ankle.
Pistons had the ball up 1 with 45 seconds left, Thomas missed a fadeway.
Pistons had the ball down 1 with 14 seconds left, Dumars misses a driving layup.
Byron Scott misses both free throws, but John Salley feels James Worthy on him (who did not jump for the ball), and kind of slaps the rebound away rather than grab it, and by the time the Pistons control it, time is basically up.
They had their chances. Incredible series.
The more I watch Wemby, the more I scratch my head that he tries to emulate KD rather than KAJ. Kareem is a legitimate GOAT candidate. His hook was unstoppable, he was probably the best passing big man ever, and he was able to use his length and grace to counter bigger, stronger centers his whole career. If Wemby could copy Kareem, the Spurs would be scary as hell.
As Mark Jackson would say, “clear contact.” The only reason you wouldn’t call this is because of the situation. It’s a foul. This is before Shaq ruined the way post play was refereed.
Nowadays we get this: https://streamable.com/7v313g
Looks like a foul
Seriously cost the Pistons the title. Imagine Isiah Thomas legacy if they threepeat.
so weird to see Rodman without all the tattoo’s and piercings.
Chuck Daly had large effect on Rodman while he was coach of the pistons.
Only team I hated more than the lakers were these piston teams.
Thanks for posting this clip. I was living in L.A. at the time and remember this sequence well.
The thing that sticks in my mind is that I was 100% sure Kareem would make both FTs. The Captain is one of the greatest Lakers (and NBA) players of all time. His clutch concentration was not to be denied.
This was shit 1980’s NBA Officiating/Fixing at its worst. This should have been the first of a Detroit Pistons Bad Boys 3-Peat and this call was the deciding factor.
Laimbeer with bone dry hair.
What I remember the most about Laimbeer is that he golfed with standard length clubs.
Imagine if the WNBA protected Caitlin Clark like that
I could watch this every day
Now that I’ve seen it up close, I’m more convinced it was the right call with Laimbeer catching/bumping Kareem on the shoulder during the shot. Bill didn’t even contest the call.
Not only was it clearly a foul, but Pistons apologists always seem to assume that no foul would’ve meant a Detroit possession. When the whistle is blown, Worthy and Rodman are battling underneath, with Worthy–who was in his absolute prime, series MVP, with springs in his legs–cutting around to inside position as the ball rolls on the rim before dropping on the side away from Rodman.
If there’s no whistle, most likely result is that Worthy gets the ball and goes up for a putback, in which case he likely scores or gets fouled, or maybe scores and gets a plus-1. In any of those scenarios, Detroit is no better off than in the game–best case for them is that Worthy (a better free throw shooter than Kareem) is at the line instead, with the Pistons having even less time to run a play. No reason at all to assume that no foul = Detroit wins.
After years of thuggery, Laimbeer earned this one
I know I’m wrong to say this…but its hard to watch these OG clips. Unbelievably slow and sloppy and basic - a modern top NCAA team would mop the floor with these dudes.
soft as shit
If it’s a foul in the first 2 minutes of a game, it’s a foul in the last 2 minutes and should be called. I wish the refs today would have the stones to make that same type of call.
It’s crazy because Laimbeer was basically the Draymond of the 80s. This is the onetime he didn’t do anything to deserve the foul. Laimbeer was worse then Draymond in my opinion but to get a foul on that play, yeah it was for past transgressions 😅😂🤣
The Phantom Foul
Eh. Fuck Lambier. Go Lakers.