Jokić with Hakeem’s defense is probably the GOAT player.

Am I crazy for thinking Giannis with Rays shooting is the easy choice here?

He’s already a great defender, hard to stop in the paint and in transition, now you add that he is a lights out shooter from all over the court, especially from 3

How do you guard him? A big wouldn’t be able to guard him out on the perimeter

Although I can see why people are choosing Jokic with Hakeem’s defense, he already dominates the offensive side of the ball with his passing and decision making, then you’d add that he can shut down the paint too

This hypothetical floats around every once in a while and I find it funny that it’s one aspect of offense for Giannis and then the entire other side of the ball for Jokic, but some people still want to insist that Jokic is a tier above Giannis.

I feel for a fairer one you have to pick an aspect of defense to grant Jokic here.

Jokic with Hakeem’s defense is a unicorn.

Jokic scoring, playmaking and GOAT defense all at once? Are we being serious right now how is that a question

Giannis with Jokic’s defense or Jokic with Giannis’ shooting?

Jokeem would be a player never seen before. Giannray would be 2013 Bron with better rebounding and slightly worse passing. 

Give me Giannis everytime tbh. Elite shooting is the only way to eliminate paint dominance. And he can do both now. 

Averaging a triple double AND being one of the best defenders ever? Yeah probably Jokic

I think Joker with Hakeem defense would be better although Giannis with Ray Allen shooting would be crazy.

People trying to build aliens hee, the off-season is too long

What if we gave Giannis ONE skill and Jokic TEN??

Jokic to me is already the ultimate teammate. The upgrade makes him even scarier as an opponent.

Jokic with Hakeem’s defense lol

Defense is a whole category and you are getting GOAT value, while shooting is just one thing. Giannis doesn’t have a great handle to really utilize people guarding him at the top of the key. 

On a meta level there’s a challenge to assessing how someone would change when the new elite skill also changes how they currently play the game (Giannis here) where’s more of a bolt-on upgrade is easier to imagine (Jokic).

Like if you made Shaq a 90% FT shooter it’s easier to see how he becomes even more unstoppable but if you gave him Ray Allen’s 3pt shooting how much time do we think he spends away from the basket being not-Shaq.

If Giannis took a lot more 3s, it would render a lot of the best aspects of his game pointless. If he shot a similar number of 3s at a higher percentage, things would improve dramatically.

Giannis + Ray Allen still wouldn’t be a great playmaker, not bad but not elite.

Jokic with Hakeem’s defense is virtually a “complete” player, no?

This player would be an elite scorer at any distance (3 balls, mid range, post up), one of the best facilitators in the game, AND arguably the greatest defensive centre in history.

Maybe his one shortcoming would be peripheral defense.

I think the better option is jokic with hakeem defense since it fixes all the weaknesses in his game and he has a near perfect offensive game. Giannis becomes a monster individual scorer but hes not the playmaker that jokic is.

Jokic with Bogut level defense would be top 5. Let alone Hakeem

1v1 it’s Giannis, for team ball it’s Jokic.

Jokic with Dream’s defense.

Giannis with Ray’s shooting would have to change his playstyle to accommodate his new shooting touch, and that could take away from his downhill ability.

Jokic with Hakeem’s D wouldn’t have to change his offensive game at all, but gets goat level defense on the other end.

Jokic for me, and that’s for one reason.

Jokic gets a GOAT defense potential while keeping everything that makes him crazy on offense.

Giannis gets an all time 3 shot, but how much does he actually need this anyway? He’s already one of the most unstoppable offensive player of all time anyway, even without a 3. He’d just be an even greater player offensively individually.

But Jokic acquiring a GOAT defense changes everything and would benefit his team infinitely more imho.

Giannis, but that’s a bit unfair

You’re making him the best shooting big man of all time lol

Depends on the what I’m looking for. 

For ones? Maybe I’d take Giannis

For team building and dynasty - I’d take Jokic.

But it really comes down to how you like to watch and play the game 

I couldn’t give a hypothetical fuck

Now that is one of the best questions and debates ive seen thrown out in a long time. Whew!

Curry with Luka’s height

They’d both be really fucking good, but I’ll bet on Jokic’s creativity to rise to a higher level than Giannis at their best (although the athleticism gap would still be massive)

Joker wouldn’t have the stamina to make it through games if he had to play lights out defense. His offense would suffer greatly. He already carries that team so much.

Going with Giannis because that actually balances his game and sets him up to dominate another 10 years. He’d be like if Dirk had freak athleticism.

Joker with elite defense is a multi-title dynasty.

A very difficult choice.

In either case, you end up with a more-than-serious contender for the unofficial title of GOAT.

I’ve racked my brains, but I just can’t choose!

Giannis all day

im taking giannis because the game is at the perimeter, and while i dont have a grasp of hakeems defense i think with jokic foot speed hes still not going to be great at the perimeter. hakeems instincts gamesense and timing probably make him at least a net neutral, but the spacing of todays game kind of minimizes a paint protector like hakeem.

giannis on the otherhand is a rangy, switchable player on d, can guard 1 thru 5, and is nigh unstoppable on o. if you add rays (18 fucking years holy shit) career 40% 3point shooting on 8-10 attempts per game, hes averaging a smooth 40 if he wants. giannis already has an incredible driving game, predicated on strength, speed and range; imagine a world where people can never sag off of him. would be unreal, theyd never be out of a game with him on the floor.

If you could promise me good health for Giannis then I’ll take him with the shot. He would just be a perfect player with a jump shot and better health

Steph curry but make him 1000 feet tall

With Ray Allen’s shooting, I’m not 100% sure that Giannis is a better offensive player than Jokic (he may be, of course) and if he’s not, then there’s not an amazing argument for Giannis over Jokeem

Give me Bill Russell x Steph Curry

Energy plays a big part in this. If this actually plays out…realistically one of them becomes a slight nerfed version of themselves on one side of the court by extending too much energy than they usually do. While the other becomes SSJ KD or Brolic Wemby with even more energy because they have to work less than usual. As a Suns fan please stop giving even more reasons to have nightmares about Giannis.

Look at it this way, even with Jokic new defensive ability he would not be able to stop Giannis since he now can score anywhere on the floor at a high percentage. Meanwhile, Giannis can still deter Jokic from scoring as easily or as often as he can. In the wise words of KD….you need to score to win. Giannis would be so unstoppable I don’t even think the variable of teammates would matter much as long as they’re remotely comparable.

Going to say Giannis, just because he would be literally unstoppable. He would suddenly have elite range, elite mid shooting, and his already dominant inside game. He’d be like peak KD on offense, but still better, plus keeps his top of the world athleticism. He’s still a great defender as well.

Jokic would be 1B. Already one of the best offensive engines/hubs, in NBA history, adding elite defense would just be unfair.

I still think Giannis with Ray’s shooting stroke is more broken though.

Giannis easily.

Transition jumpers would be unguardable

Both would be so perfect, your question deserves no answer

Its easily Giannis with Ray shooting

Jokic with elite defense is good, but we’ve seen Jokic get shut down before. Giannis with elite shooting is Lebron on roids

You didn’t say anything about Jokic’s motor playing 100% on both sides of the ball. I’m taking Giannis. Think of how much energy he can conserve not rim-running

I’d take Giannis with Ray Allen’s shooting. An unstoppable rim attacker who also shoots like one of the greatest shooters ever is basically impossible to defend.

Jokic w hakeem defense 

Jokic’s only weakness is defense. He can actually shoot really good on threes.

Giannis still has passing as his glaring weakness. You can double him on the perimeter.

Jokic easily imo. Giannis is more of an iso scorer. Giannis with a 3 isn’t even much better if at all than current Jokic offensively because Jokic also gets you about 11 assists. They’d be comparable. And Hakeem is better than Giannis on defense.

giannis with Allen three is the greatest offensive player ever easily. giannis defense is a little worse than hakeem but it’s still excellent he was dpoy. giannis by a lil

Definitely Giannis with Ray Allen shooting. Gotta remember just cause Jokic gets Olajuwon defense don’t mean his body and conditioning can handle being a two-way player. We’ve seen him tire out in deep playoff runs playing mostly one side of the ball. Giannis on the other hand is really only just capped by his skill and shooting ability. Olajuwon with Jokic court vision and passing ability however would be a scary player

Too much overlap in skillet for me with Jokic/Dream. Giannis with Ray Allen’s shooting would be mental. I dont even care how many assists that hypothetical would achieve. Its a bucket with crazy speed.

Jokic because Giannis still gets injured more

I think shaq with steph curry shooting (3 pt and ft) would be a better opponent for jokic with hakeem defense

Giannis

I mean what separates them at this point is mental. Jokic has higher bbiq, even on defense he is regularly calling other teams plays. However he is not a traditional leader of men at all and you need to fill in those gaps around him too. For instance Braun is the “vocal leader” of the Nuggets supposedly.

If Giannis was also the best shooter outside of Steph he’d be unstoppable offensively with already elite defense. Jokic would benefit a lot from getting that type of defensive boost but he’d be far below Giannis in offense with only a slight edge on defense. Giannis Allentekumpo clears easily.

I think due to Jokics insane basketball IQ and passing i slightly prefer that option, but its a really tough call.

Both would be the goat

Giannis would go from 61/25/61 splits to 65/42/90 splits. He would definitely be the best offensive player ever.

Your mom with my dad’s crossover

Jokic with Hakeem defense because you can’t teach height. Both are OP, but one is OP and taller.

Gay question to ask

Kobe with all the freedom Shaq’s 2x and 3x teams gave him

Jokic as is is still the better player

Giannis is not a winning player. He peaked 2021 and that was it of his career