I don’t remember it personally, but that wasn’t really the conversation anyone was having at that point in time. Wilt was seen as maybe the best athlete, but Russell was the “ultimate winner”

Never undisputed because Bill was always right there.

Not undisputed. Every time Wilt or Russell were considered better by someone or a panel, it was controversial.

The general sentiments were:  

• Wilt’s a better player, but you’d rather have Russell on your team

• Wilt has more talent, Russell uses it more effectively

• For Wilt to beat Boston, he needs to play like Wilt on offense and Russell on defense

Oscar was as close to undisputed as you get pre-Jordan, but only inch-for-inch. Not true impact.

Ain’t no one on Reddit watch Wilt play lol

Nobody even talked like this before 25…30 years ago. There were no GOAT conversations. And we were probably the better for it. You could simply watch the games and enjoy the players.

My grandpa always told me that Wilt was overrated as fuck, and Bill Russell was a better player overall.

The way he talks about them feels similar to how people now compare LeBron and MJ lol

I think he even rates Kareem more than Wilt. He might have been a Wilt hater lol.

Some people thought he was, but it was never the consensus

Not undisputed, but yes. My boys and I had arguments between Bill and Wilt. It always came down to stats vs championships. Wilt was something else to watch in person and he was my favorite.

there are not 90 comments in here from 90 different 70+ year old people in 2 hours lol

these comments are somehow more worthless than mine

I thought Wilt was the GOAT when I was a kid. We didn’t talk about it using the actual GOAT term but as the best player ever… yes.

From what I remember, Chamberlain was both very famous and unappreciated during much of his career.

While he put up unbelievable individual stats, and won a number of MVP awards, he was also criticized because his teams were thought to underachieve. There was a perception that he played more for himself, but did not necessarily make his teammates better. I think people also tended to attribute his individual achievements more to his size rather than his skills.

He also played during the “dynasty” of the Boston Celtics, who overshadowed a number of very good teams and excellent players.

It wasn’t until later in his career, when he was a little older and changed his playing style that he became more appreciated and admired. He reduced his scoring and worked more as a facilitator. He also won a championship at that time and back to back MVP awards.

You also did not have the level of coverage you have today, so not as many people saw him play. I have almost no memory of seeing him—either in person or on TV.

I don’t think people at the time really appreciated his freakish athleticism. And it always has to be pointed out in that era that racism played a role in perception—especially for someone like Chamberlain, who was pretty outspoken.

But I am going 99% on personal memory, so others might have different perceptions/experiences.

Hard to consider someone the goat when their biggest rival keeps beating you

No one that old is on Reddit bro

The wilt/russell debate has always been around.

Ok so back in the late 70’s- KAJ had 1 ring. No Bird or Magic or MJ yet. Russell had the wins but Wilt was seen as the greatest individual player ever.
Averaging 50 for a season? Leading the league in assists as a center? Rebounds and blocks off the charts.

If you were taking 1 guy back then it was Wilt. Building a team? Russell or Oscar or Kareem…if that makes sense.

People weren’t obsessed with who the GOAT was up through the 80s, not until it sold shoes, magazines, views, clicks.

No but yeah. undisputed is kinda loaded because it’s a classic barbershop argument

What did reddit think of him back then?

I’m sure some did. Wilt had the stats argument, Bill has the rings argument. But MJ was widely seen as taking the GOAT from off Kareem.

From what my dad told me, Wilt was obviously an amazing player, but very polarizing.  A lot of fans and the media didn’t like him.  He was seen as sort of a stat-padder in an era especially when team ball was still highly valued.  During that era, for basketball fans, college basketball also carried a lot of weight and was really popular.  Wilt left college early because he wanted to earn money, which also soured him a lot to fans.  So the reputation automatically put him in a bad light for how people perceived his career.  

So even if he was GOAT, few would want to admit it.  And then throw in him being contemporary to Bill Russell, who was also in the greatest player convo, it muddied the water even more.  And then Kareem came in a several years later to become the greatest college basketball player ever (my dad’s favorite player), again when college bal carried a lot of weight, it made the greatest player convo even more difficult. 

My dad thinks he’s the GOAT to this day. He might even remember the 100 point game

Never undisputed. It was Wilt or Bill as the clear ¹⁄₂ for quite a while until Kareem came along.

Not really. Russell got all the attention when he was playing and then basically as soon as Russell retired it flipped to Kareem. The Kareem one started a pretty long beef that stretched over like 4 autobiographys. All of this is coming from news of the day. I was not alive, I just like reading archival newspapers like a weirdo.

During Wilt’s era in 60s/70s the so called GOAT debate was between him and Bill Russell and rarely him as the undisputed.

IDK, but all the books from his contemporaries talk about how he was a pain in the ass to deal with and cared more about his own stats and image than winning, and they didn’t respect him for it.

My friend’s dad swore he was the most dominant player to ever touch a basketball by far, and that no one else was even close 

No. It was never undisputed. Wilt had too many detractors.

no, people back then valued winning way more than nowadays when you can be argued to be the goat with a losing finals record

No

In 1980, for its 35 years anniversary, the NBA voted on a few things, including Greatest Player.

It went to Bill Russell.

Nah, it was Russell for a while, until 1980 I believe. Then Bird/Magic for the 80s had a back and forth, but it was Jordan as early as the late 80s or early 90s was considered GOAT.

Greatest of all Time was a marketing technique by Nike for Michael Jordan.

I thought at the time people were saying Oscar Robertson because he was so versatile 

No. He usually lost to Bill then Kareem showed up and was all that and a bag of chips.

Ask the 20,000 women he supposedly slept with 

the tragic thing is, I don’t think so

but then again I doubt Kareem was either so if he’s your pick he’d fail this test.

No. He was probably considered by most as the most talented or best basketball player ever but Kareem and Russell were largely considered greater than him. Some even considered Oscar to be the most talented ever, though I personally think Wilt always exceeded him

kinda hard when this other dude in Boston kept winning

Wilt is the Goat as far as feats goes , he still holds them records i guess not easy to beat those stats.

Those goat convos probably started later though when magic vs bird was a thing then Mj got into that action

Not with all his losses to Russell

No, because players of the era consistently awarded Russell over Wilt, even as journalists and the public considered Wilt better.

Kareem came along at the end of Wilt’s career and his college career plus early NBA title made him another contender for the crown, though Kareem was never as popular with the public as Wilt was (mostly due to racism).

Then the 80s came, and the GOAT was further fractured until Jordan became the GOAT to all non-pistons supporters.

Reddit back in the 60’s was toxic

In one of the most famous works of philosophy of the 70s - Anarchy, State and Utopia by Robert Nozick, one of the most famous arguments is called The Wilt Chamberlain argument. Basically, if we had a completely egalitarian society, the existence of Wilt Chamberlain would cause people to undermine it because they’d want so badly to give money to Wilt just to see him play that he’d end up with more and them less, purely from everybody doing what they want.

Does that count as evidence?

If you play the original Trivial Pursuit, 50% of the sports answers are Wilt Chanberlain

He got his ass kicked by Bill Russell in the playoffs every year. How can you be the goat when your contemporary wins 11 rings? People in the ‘60s understood that more than people understand it now.

For those who remember? Do you think that there is anywhere on this subreddit born in the 40s?

Easily. Yes - he was Wemby before Wemby. A total unicorn.

Not sure anyone here remembers Wilt playing. But by the time I was conscious in the mid 80s plenty of people were talking shit about him. Not about his skill, but his mentality.

He thought he was.

Everyone else knew Kareem and Russel existed.

GOAT camp arguments are not new. They just didn’t have social media

Come on. What are you talking about? Was there ever a time when every single person got together and like voted? And everyone with an opinion was there and it was unanimous? Get off of reddit

Nobody talked in goat terms until jordan (at least in the 80s). It was more which hustoric team was better, and which current player was better. 

If there ever was a goat who was disputed it was Wilt. All these deeds but no video makes for dispute. 

Who is this question for? Do you really think there’s 70+ year olds on NBA reddit?

Whenever bill and Kareem rolled into my town it was for sure a higher level of aura buzzing through the city, when wilt came it was alright, he just cared about his numbers. Where I’m from we valued winning more and wilt banged all our women

Go to a retirement home and ask

Chamberlain was the LeFraud of his era. And Russell was Curry.

Yes, absolutely. Probably up until Kareem got scoring title in 85. Even them many still had Wilt ahead of Kareem who passed Wilt via longevity more than being a better scorer. So undisputed until 85 and in contention probably until after 1996 title #4 when Jordan became undisputed.

BTW I don’t recall anyone having Russell as #1 back then. He was just the guy who beat the #1 in games but wasn’t considered the greater player. That said, I didn’t live in Boston.

GOAT wasn’t even used until the 90’s. When I was growing up we idolized all the greats and didn’t spend much if any time ranking them because we understood the truth that it was subjective. We all had our favorite players and mostly focused on current players and rivalries. There was no internet to instantly look up stats to try and one-up and argue with people we didn’t know. We all hooped on the courts and would imitate the greats.

Wilt the Stilt was most definitely a legend in many ways but Jabbar had the skyhook so he got the playground imitations. I remember I had his adidas in the eighth grade that I found in a bargain bin at Mervyns.

From what I can tell Bill Russel was considered better at the time 

ofc not he wasn’t even the GOAT of his era…Bill Russell exists

A center can never be the best basketball player.