Besides Steve Nash, who is the best player to never make the Finals?
I’ll go first with Dominique Wilkins aka The Human Highlight Film. What do you all think about this question?
George Gervin
Iceman was literally two points away in a very famous game 7 from going to the finals. Oh, and the Bullets came back from a 3-1 deficit.
hell yea ice
George Gervin with the shot, boy.
The original iceman
One thing he could do…was finger roll
It’s one of Embiid, Nash, Dominique or Gervin. All depending on who values who better all time.
Embiid hasn’t even been to a conference finals
lmao
Embiid maybe talent-wise but the other three are a tier or two above legacy-wise
Why would Nique be above Embiid? Embiid has an MVP and was annually 1-2 with Jokic.
We didn’t think of Nique that way back then.
He isn’t. People just have a very difficult time contextualizing players who are still active. They think of one guy as an active player, and the other as a legend. Even if the active player will also 100% be a legend.
has to be by virtue of playing a lot more frequently. i hate the sixers but embiid genuinely gets underrated super hard here because of his injuries
availability is important tho
I was just thinking the same thing.
There’s still plenty of time for Ant and Nique was before my time but everything I’ve read about Nique’s whole career reminds me of the last few years of Ant. Superstar, must see, winner, but in the end there are at least 5 or 6 guys you’d rather have in a vacuum.
Now the counterpoint is even in Ant’s case now all those guys have played in a finals.
Nique was spectacular, but I don’t remember anyone putting expectations on him like they put on Ant.
Why? You’re just saying that because you don’t like Embiid. Neither Gervin or Nique have an mvp nor were either in the best of the world conversation like Embiid
Gervin was top 5 in MVP voting 4 years in a row, and finished second twice. He had 4 scoring titles in a 5 year span, with 2 seasons shooting over 54% from the field. His peak is very similar to Embiid’s peak actually, except Gervin was playing 78-82 games per year, and Embiid was playing 51-68.
Okay, my point is Gervin is not a tier or two above Embiid legacy wise
He’s still not a tier above Embiid
not really, im pretty sure they have similar accolades, but embiid has an mvp
Gervin has 4 scoring titles to Embiids 2
7 all NBA selections (5 first team) to Embiids 5 (1 first team)
4 top 5 mvp finishes (including 2 runner up) to Embiids 3. Embiid ofc has an mvp while gervin does not.
Some of those are longevity, OFC, like Embiid will finish with a similar amount of all NBA Finishes to gervin as long as he stays healthy, and yea the MVP is a massive difference OFC. I don’t think it’s egregious to have gervin above Embiid. Embiid also has some all defense team selections, which I’m not sure how much that should be weighted, but it’s more accolades over gervin for sure
Its preposterous to have Dominique Wilkins ranked above Embiid though lol. Nique had 1 mvp runner up and 2 more top 5 finishes. 7 total all NBA selections but only 1 first team. Only 1 scoring title. Embiid has already surpassed him
Nash on the other hand. 2 MVPs and another runner up. 7 all NBA including 3 first team selections. No scoring title, but 5 assist titles. Does Embiids defence outweigh the 2nd mvp? I think that’s what it comes down to when judging the 2 of them
It is hard to weigh an active player against retired players too
Nique goes into the TMac/VC tier for me - must watch guys who rarely moved the needle beyond making playoffs. Even Harden and Westbrook at least do that, even if they can’t solo carry.
Their cultural presence does outweigh even a Jokic though, so it’s a case of if you think name recognition outweighs accolades and titles and stats.
Cultural Impact is definitely a factor I didn’t including because it’s harder to quantify than accolades or stats.
But yeah Gervin for sure and Nique almost definitely outweigh Embiid on cultural impact. I don’t know how to quantified it, but Nash has gotta be there too?
Absolutely insane statement.
Either revisionist history or hating here
In what way is Nique a tier or two above Embiid?
Embiid is not more talented than Nash… He’s just talented and big.
I wouldn’t say Embiid because even though Embiid can arguably peak higher than Nash, he didn’t really have the chance to be at that level in the playoffs (torn meniscus, thumb ligament, LCL from ‘21-‘23).
At least Nash got about 3-4 years at his peak (minus that nasty cut to his nose).
All that to say my pick is Nash. You basically need to see which players were MVP-level for a couple of years to answer this question.
As far as talent goes I am taking D Rose over anyone mentioned in this thread so far
Hugo Gonzalez
Least obvious Brad Steven’s burner account
For now
I hate it when somebody beats me to the snark
He made finals at Evo 2007 tho
Pete Maravich
i would love to see an all time jazz team him and stockton together in their primes
That would be Malone, Stockton, Pete, Gobert…
…Dantley? Mitchell? AK47 for the super defense?
Don’t forget Eaton for size
He can be the hoop.
Hornacek for spacing purposes.
Memo
Either Kirilenko at the 3 because you’ve got enough scoring or you play Malone as a small ball center with both Dantley and Kirilenko.
I don’t think Mitchell is really in the discussion. Hornacek would be above him in the pecking order and frankly Deron Williams too.
Hornacek over Mitchell is insane. Only argument for Hornaceck is that it’s Utah and he’s white.
gotta be embiid right?
He is for sure the best to never reach the Conference Finals.
I’d agree, but some people might argue Tmac
Tmac as a star never left the first round. I think he made the finals as a 12th man late in his career.
With the 12-13 Spurs. I was never a Tmac fan, but I remember feeling bad for him during that post-season run because of how washed he was in the limited minutes he played
Looked it up and he played 31 total minutes in 4 series. That’s 19 games total.
That was a special kind of washed at 34.
I don’t think he scored any points either
That’s the most surprising thing to me like damn T Mac you were that washed you couldn’t even get a couple of shots in your spots? Even 100 year old Paul Pierce was managing to get to his spots with LAC he even hit a game winner lol
He had so many lower body injuries he was totally sapped of all of his athleticism. That microfracture shit if I recall.
Yep. Never should have got that micro fracture surgery
Was it the clippers or the wizards?
When they said game winner I immediately pictured the wizards
Wizards. Typing the comment i forgot which one it was i just remembered “i called game!”
lol I don’t know how I missed that
Easy now. Back then, a player playing over 30 was rare.
Tmac gets overrated. The fact that he could never get a team out of the first round needs to weigh against him more than it does.
Lillard is a better player than tmac that never made the finals
It’s hard to say for sure because Tmac got saddled with injuries before his prime. Dame probably accomplished more in his career, but Tmac imo was still the better and more talented player.
I mean technically he made the finals as a bench guy
If we don’t count the 2013 stint with the Spurs, Tmac is the best player to never win a playoff series
The disrespect to NBA finalist TMac
Scoring is a conversation but the overall impact on the court of Embiid is far greater than T Mac.
Respectfully to TMac he was never near peak Embiid
2013 finals spurs vs heat went to 7.
Tmac was an also ran on the spurs team
If he doesn’t make it before his career ends, then yeah
Does it count if his team makes it but he’s injured?
Yes. I debate this all the time.
Dominique would be my choice too! He was unstoppable a few years but his team wasn’t as good as Celtics & Bulls.
He was maybe my favorite player before or with Jordan growing up but 82-0 made me realize how long he was putting up numbers for after Atlanta.
Wilkins didn’t play winning basketball though he’s kind of like Carmelo Anthony terrible playmaker not an overly efficient scorer despite the high volume and not a good defender that’s not a recipe for playing meaningful basketball
Dude. As a Knicks fan that watched both players, I kinda disagree.
Carmelo gets too much disrespect as it is; but, in fairness, he refused to play defense in valuable moments.
Dominique, on the other hand was just asked to carry a HEAVY offensive load. He had good defenders around him, but the only year he ever had another 20ppg scorer for like a fucking DECADE with the Hawks was old man Moses, who was also a broken version of himself.
Like if you give him a Pippen or a Stockton or a Kevin Johnson caliber player, dude is at least making a Finals somewhere during his career.
How old are you? lol
Nique is the most overrated star from that era, probably just because of a good nickname and a great highlight reel. Horrible defender (and that’s despite having all the tools for being a great one), bad playmaker, no effort and hustle at all. Good finisher but level below Iceman who never went to finals too. Great dunker tho. And a great tank commander, got Spurs Duncan.
Damian Lillard should be up there
Him sticking with a small market team that never even really made a serious effort to build a contender is why he still gets a statue some day, even though he very publicly walked away for a while.
he still gets a statue some day
Though it’s looking like that statue will be outside Pioneer Place or somewhere like that, since the Raleigh Tobacco Blazers won’t build him one.
Is there a Walton or Drexler statue?
No, but the org has just recently started reaching out to mend fences with old vets. At least, we were before Dundon. IIRC, both Clyde and Bill left on bad terms.
man i remember Portland fans were dragging him through the dirt that off season.
Blazers fans, and Portlanders in general, have a hard time staying objective. We spend 2⁄3 of the year indoors, and gossip like schoolgirls.
His lack of deep playoff runs will always make him a tier below. One conference finals in his career in which he got swept, even if he does have a few iconic moments it’s not enough compared to MVPs and perennial deep playoff competitors.
Dude, Dame is 6’1. Brunson and Wardell not withstanding in the modern era how frequently are we seeing a player this short make deep playoff runs consistently as the best player on his team?
Also just look at the Knicks. Replace dame with Brunson and it’s probably a similar situation. Dame’s biggest years in Portland were with a very weak team overall, no all star teammates at all. I’m sad the bucks never seemed to make dame and Giannis work together because it could’ve been great. But putting dame with defense first guards and forwards (Josh, Mikal, OG) and an awesome spacing center in KAT and he for sure has a good time.
The blazers just never really did what was needed to build a team around him. As much as I love CJ they needed to move on a few years earlier when his value was higher.
why you call Steph “Wardell”
That’s his first name.
MVP is a team award, Dame never had a team that gave him a shot but he had at least 1 MVP worthy season.
Don’t know if I’d put him ahead of Nash but he’s on the short list for sure.
What was Dame’s MVP worthy season?
He never really came close to winning MVP
I mean he was 4th in mvp before… also was 2nd in the league in winshares through a 4 year stretch
Embiid Grant Hill Dominique C Webb Dame
One of the answers used to be Dave Bing.
Teammate Lanier more so
Yao Ming
Tracy McGrady has to be up there. At the very least, the best player to never win a playoff series.
He played in the 2013 Finals tho
If you change the prompt to “never scored a point in the NBA Finals” he still qualifies!
Good call. Forgot about them bringing him for the playoffs that season.
mistakes were made that series
McGrady signed an extremely short-term contract with the Spurs and reached the 2013 NBA Finals against the Heat… lost in 7 games :(
Alex English
D rose, Embiid and Nash are the only MVPs to never make finals so those 3
Id add the NBA 75 legends that didnt either so Dominique, T Mac, Gervin, Melo, pistol pete
I dont consider Dame a worthy top 75, should be dwight howard instead of
he’s still a top 75 player. dwight should’ve replaced one of the older players
Sidney Moncrief
those Bucks teams were fantastic, too, for pretty much a full decade when Moncrief was there, two full iterations of the roster.. just never made it over the hump to the finals with Boston and the Dr. J 76ers and later Detroit.
Good pick.
Paul George
Melo, Dame, Nique, Moncrief, Joe Johnson in no particular order.
Moncrief is one of those overlooked all time greats because those Bucks teams were overshadowed in that era. All three Eastern Conference Finals he made they lost to the eventual champs. Only guard to ever win back-to-back DPOY.
Vince Carter played in three different decades and never went to the finals.
Four different decades, yeah?
woops you right, I forgot he made it to 2020
Vince got kind of close at least, more so than TMac (I don’t count that spurs charity signing)
And a bunch of teams that had made the finals just before he arrived. He gets to the nets right after they get to the finals, and then again in Orlando and then again in Dallas
you can thank big shot bob and his body check for that
I’d say the blame truly goes to David Stern.
Off the top of my head, Chris Webber, Carmelo and Vince Carter. Derek Rose is another- just an unbelievable player. I’m sure there are tons. Wrong time, wrong coaches, wrong owners. We blame the player but the organizations had the talent and sometimes didn’t come through for them.
The amount of people naming players who’ve played in finals is alarming.
In recent years too. Says a lot about this sub sadly.
Gervin? Although he’s probably ranked lower now than some of the best modern players.
Arvydas Sabonis
Amare Stoudamire
This
Webber
Tobias harris
Yet!
So true Tobias 2027 fmvp incoming
Can’t be a coincidence that almost all the guys being named here were average to awful on defense.
Underrated point!
Embiid, All-NBA defender. Has a good shot this year though.
Melo, the ice man, Chris Mullin.
Chris Mullin appeared in the Finals in 2000 with thr Pacers.
My bad I just wanted to mention Chris Mullen. Chris Weber maybe. Dame?
Melo doesn’t belong in the same sentence as “best” in any context.
Actually, I’m wrong. He was best jab stepper.
Jordan as a rookie
True tbh
Oh cmon, your edit makes my comment irrelevant
You embarrassed me bro take the w 😔
Johnny Davis
Get that man on the Stockton Kings and that distinction will end quickly
Nique
I got D Rose and Bernard King.
Vince Carter
Just throwing out grant hill
Sidney Moncrief is one of the best defensive guards of all times and he never made the finals
[deleted]
I think he was on a spurs team that went
He went to the 2013 Finals with the Spurs
Wilkins is pretty damn close. He was really, really, talented. But the argument could be made, much like Melo, that he was kind of a black hole and didn’t really raise the ceiling; he just raised the floor.
Personally, I think it’s TMac (ignoring that Spurs stint). If you were around to see it, he was as good if not better than Kobe. Kobe just had better teams and better health. Health being the bigger factor.
Steve Nash won those MVPs and he deserved both of them, but I don’t think he is in the convo of the best players to not make a finals. Steve was awesome (maybe my top 5 personal players to watch), but he was at the tail end of the traditional PG era and benefited from it. There were so many hyper athletic combo guards who just chucked shots up and played ISO ball, and Steve was the ultimate efficient facilitator. When he won those MVPs, I think a lot of the voters gave him love for….passing beautifully. Even on the teams he was on that had a chance at a Finals appearance, it was Dirk or Amare or even microwave Joe that would seal the deal over Steve. That’s a problem for your question of “Best player to never make finals”
Derrick Rose, Paul George, Carmelo Anthony, Yao Ming
Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore, George Gervin, Nate Thurman, Dominque Wilkens, and Maravich. Also noteworthy Chris Weber and Glenn Robinson,
Gervin, Wilkins, Lillard, Melo all come to mind.
If we’re going off of peak talent, Embiid and Maravich certainly.
Shoutouts to Grant Hill and Sid Moncrief.
Based on my list it’s Nash, then Embiid
Imbed isn’t the paly Lanier, Gimoree or Thurman were. And they played every night.
Dominique Wilkins Alex English Bernard King
Alex English. Led the entire 80s in scoring.
Dame
FWIW, and this doesn’t want really mean anything but I THINK the only mvps to not make a finals are Nash, Rose and Embiid ?
Embiid is up there for fucking sure
not to detract from the discussion, but I genuinely had never heard Nique called that. Always heard “Human Highlight Reel”. Seems you are correct though, just weird to me.
dude same. I watched him (like as a 10 year old but still) and only think of him as the “Human Highlight Reel.”
Fun to learn new things!
Joel embiid
Maybe Joel E but they are the favorites now yeah? Time will tell
Grant Hill
earl manigault
Damian Lillard, Carmelo Anthony
Kirk Hinrich
Glad he missed that 3 against Syracuse
cole anthony
They keep mentioning Dominique Wilkins some people really do become overrated with time smh.
Nash never making an NBA finals is insane
2 words. Nash and Paul. Must see TV
Paul George, Vince Carter, Joe Johnson.
Nash isnt even in that conversation lmao
Rhymes with Waymian Dillard
I think Embiid is a regular season monster. I also firmly believe his cap is a second round exit. I’ll delegate Embiid as my nominee for this category.
Came to say Nique based on the title.
Does T-Mac count? He made it to the Finals, but at the end of the bench and only played 14 minutes.
That kind of depends on who you ask. I’d say it counts as going to the finals, though
I guess the question seems more like asking about a player reaching the finals closer to the prime of their career.
Jeremy Lin played a few seconds in the 2019 Finals to dribble the ball, is that really what people think of when they think about a player in the Finals?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2019-nba-finals-warriors-vs-raptors.html
Imma go with Bill Russell
Melo
Carmelo
George Gervin and Carmelo Anthony
Melo doesn’t hold a candle to Nash or Embiid
Embiid for now
Mike Mitchell Cavaliers