What “not good enough for the NBA” looked like in 1958
You ever watch Pete Maravich clips from the 60s? Dude basically invented the sneak pass and scored 60 points without a 3 point line… even though he took a ton of shots from it
YouTube Maravich dropping 60 on the Knicks it’s very entertaining
What’s the sneak pass
Listen if Stephen A. Smith can be the face of NBA commentary, then I can describe a trick pass in any way I want to.
this might be one of the greatest comeback after getting caught. Great defence.
“Defence wins championships.”
Why is there an NBA flair lol pick a team brother
No refs flair :(
Just fell to my knees in a Walmart
Some people just enjoy ball my guy
Then just don’t flair up. NBA flair on the nba sub is hilarious
its meme yes
c’mon Nico, you can’t still be trying to defend your move. Just have some remorse…and get out my fuckin face
warmly to Nico motherfuckin Harrison motherfucker fucker.
Good morning, what would you like for breakfast?
Nuke.
Fair
You never heard of it? That just proves how sneaky it is
Hidden, deceptive pass.
It’s where he tosses it into his teammates face when they’re not looking and yells, “Sneak Pass!!!”
its fucking always us lmao
Those games where most points are scored without 3 pointers are a fresh breeze of air. I just don’t understand what people find so enjoyable about 3 pointers, I just can’t bear them.
Somebody went back and mapped all of Maravich’s shots from LSU and accounted for the modern three point line, he would’ve averaged 57 ppg.
I’ve heard that for years but it never seemed right to me. It means he’d have about 2/3rds of his made FGs from that distance. He shot from long range a lot but I don’t think it was over twice as often as from inside the arc.
Yeah it’s definitely a BS myth that’s been going around for decades. It’s not mathematically possible.
It would probably be an extra 3-4 points, or more like 47 ppg.
His old man was a beauty
What’s crazy about the dribbling back then is they were a lot stricter about calling carrying. So you really had to bounce it from the top of the ball
That’s how I grew up learning to dribble too
I’m in my late 40s and play in a pickup game with other dudes in their 40s and beyond. They’ll call you out for palming and carrying, and get real shitty about it. In fairness, it is the rule set we all played with coming up.
it actually is a rules violation to dribble in modern style, NBA refs just don’t call it
the rule book never changed, the money did
See this is exactly why I turned down the offer from the Emirati Y league. Can’t let money change the game.
NBA refs are terrible. I haven’t seen anyone set a legal screen in a long time. Every time someone sets a pick they either put their hands on the person they are screening or they flare their elbows to get as wide as possible and they either hold or push off. That’s not including all the blatant traveling (even beyond the gather step which we all know is traveling), carrying the ball, obvious offensive fouls and flopping. Since these are supposed to be the best refs in the world, clearly the NBA wants them to call games like this.
Still better then WNBA refs though.
“A player who is dribbling may not put any part of his hand under the ball and (1) carry it from one point to another or (2) bring it to a pause and then continue to dribble again.”
Certainly some moves that modern players use violate this rule, but it definitely does not have to be interpreted as only allowing you to bounce it from the top of the ball.
What do we mean the money did?
High school, college, and aau refs don’t call it either fwiw
How the fuck did the money change this? Someone’s earning $5,000,000 more because a player gets called for less carries? I think the playstyle of the league evolved and the context of rules redefined.
Such a stupid take.
No, it’s not.
What changed was the definition of the rule and how it was defined.
Intelligent people realized carrying the ball isn’t the same as just putting your hand on the side of the ball to move it diagonally through the air instead of perfectly up and down. And that that’s not even what the verbiage of the rule says, anyway.
I wonder how people that think this way did in algebra, 2 + 2 must have been a difficult week
A player who is dribbling may not put any part of his hand under the ball and (1) carry it from one point to another or (2) bring it to a pause and then continue to dribble again.
The only movement that does not violate these rules is swiping the hand sideways tangential to the ball.
As they should. Seeing “great handles” applied to egregious carrying feels like gaslighting every single time.
Makes sense. If ya’ll were coming up in the 90s then the adults reffing and coaching would have grown up with ball from the 60s
Me too and I think it prevented me from going pro
I’m surprised this guy didn’t make it into the nba with this dribbling ability
Weren’t a couple of the other reasons they dribbled so hard back then was because the courts and balls were not as uniform?
Dribble hard? Watching the video above, about the only difference in that player’s dribble and a modern pro is that his hand remains on top of the ball throughout that possession. Referees would absolutely whistle you as soon as they saw a pinkie dip below the “equator” of the ball. Technically, that is still the rule, but I’ll be damned the last time I saw a referee at any level whistle a player for palming and even carrying.
It is absolutely not still the rule in the NBA.
Rule No. 10, Section II - Dribble, subsection d. “A player who is dribbling may not put any part of his hand under the ball and (1) carry it from one point to another or (2) bring it to a pause and then continue to dribble again.”
Chapter and verse, homie. Do they ever call it? No. No, they don’t.
It is legal to put your hand under the ball, it is not legal to put your hand under the ball and carry it from one point to another. You will not get whistled if your pinkie dips below the equator because that is not a violation of the rule you quoted.
You’re missing subsection 2: “bring [the ball] to a pause and then continue to dribble again. Dribbling and putting your hand under the ball does cause the ball to pause.
According to the Rulebook, “A dribble is the movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or taps the ball to the floor.” How are you able to “throw” or “tap” a ball to the floor when your hand is under it? Further:
“The dribble ends when the dribbler…8. Otherwise gathers the ball. What is a “gather” according to the Rulebook as it pertains to a dribble: “For a player who is in control of the ball while dribbling, the gather is defined as the point where a player does any one of the following: (1) Puts two hands on the ball, or otherwise permits the ball to come to rest, while he is in control of it; 2. Puts a hand under the ball and brings it to a pause.”
Again, my argument is how a dribble is defined here as the act of “throwing” or “tapping” a ball to the floor. The act of putting your hand under the ball logically breaks that action, because you are no longer able to “throw” or “tap” the ball to the floor. You’ve paused that action at best. You have to bring your hand back to the top to dribble again.
You can throw the ball down, and put your hand under the ball without interfering with its motion on the way back up.
It’s become a default way to dribble because you threaten to gather and shoot instantly, making it hard on the defender. (People also absolutely get away with little shit around this all the time, very slightly delaying the ball/faking a gather before resuming dribble). Dribbling and putting your hand under the ball on the way up does not violate the rules as written, which is why it isn’t called.
And how are you able to differentiate between a person “following” the ball up through its ascent versus putting their hand under the ball and pushing it up through an ascent? The rule states that a) the hand is not allowed under the ball, and b) it is not allowed to carry it from one point to another. What you are describing sounds like the hand under the ball is carrying it from point (a) on an x-axis to point (b) higher up on the x-axis. This would be an infraction of the rule.
Referees know how a ball bounces, and are able to distinguish if the hand under the ball is sufficiently altering the natural trajectory of the ball.
This is a skill you might also possess.
I know the Celtics would trap around a dead spot on the floor, but hard to say if it was a league thing or a Boston being filthy cheaters thing
They still aren’t. The gym where I played old man’s league has the deadest floor I’ve ever played on. Kills the shot on every player who is the primary one dribbling all the way up the court
Fast /= hard. Just like sex
Honestly, thank Christ for that. You’ll see these old-school players dribble with their right hand while moving to their left, shuffling like a fucking zombie because they’re afraid they’d get whistled if they tried to cross it over to the correct hand. It’s a sad spectacle.
Credit to the Wilt Chamberlain Archive for this clip, 9:17 of this video:
https://youtu.be/kb60e6Pet78?si=R5e1D3si_3YPTVug
What a great video. Watched it earlier today
watched it yesterday, but should put this in the post, everyone has to see this.
60s basketball is the cleanest rules/reffing.
Who is that
Don Matuszak of Kansas State, an All–Big 8 player in 1958-59 (and starter in the Final Four the previous year). He was drafted in the eighth round by Cincinnati and never had a real shot at making the league.
8th round, my God!
Yeah, they used to just keep the draft going so long as teams wanted to pick players. It lead to teams making silly picks in later rounds.
For example, the San Diego Clippers drafted Tony Gwynn (HOF baseball player) when he graduated from SDSU. (To be fair, he was the team’s starting PG, but he was clearly destined for the diamond, lol.)
Another team drafted Carl Lewis, the American track & field Olympian.
Even Bruce Jenner was drafted by an NBA team back when he won gold in the decathalon.
Season prior 8th rounder was ROTY. So it’s not like it was impossible to make it. 8th round back then was like late 2nd round now (~57-64 pick).
That’s true that it was that pick range and that it wasn’t impossible to make it from there, Don just wasn’t one of the guys who was ever going to, I don’t think the Royals even gave him a training camp contract. Making the league as a late 50s pick isn’t even guaranteed with 30 teams, let alone 8. Sauldsberry’s a great counter-example, but he only fell that far because absolutely no one thought there was any chance he’d leave the Globetrotters, otherwise he probably would’ve been third or fourth round.
Air Dog from NBA Jam (T.E.) Tournament Edition
now you got streamers, tiktokers and golfers.
Poor Curry and LeBron getting strays.
What are the 2026 Lakers?
Boybands
Can we have the tiniest bit of context
Its a basketball game
In an arena, if it helps
I don’t know why people are acting like this is a crazy question. It’s just a clip of a guy dribbling full court and then cuts off right when he throws a behind the back pass which, as far as we know, might have just gone into like the 8th row of the crowd (and maybe that’s why it was cut out).
It doesn’t give any indication as to whether he can even shoot or play defense, he doesn’t look tall, and we don’t even know if his opponents are any good. And it’s presented as like “can you believe this guy didn’t make the NBA in 1958?” and it’s like “uhhh, yeah, because I don’t know anything else about him”. lol
The clip fades but I highly doubt it went into the stands as it was a key moment taken from a big game. I don’t know why they chose to fade but that’s just the way the college film maker edited their basketball season review film. The player is Don Matuszak who was drafted in the 8th round but never played in the NBA. This clip was put into a video I made a few days ago trying to explain ball handling principles and rules from that era vs today
I see great dribbling and some up court push.
I was just at Ahearn Field House earlier this year where this took place. Such a cool setting. Tex Winter was the coach of this 1958-59 team, who most know as the inventor of the triangle offense, and who helped the Shaq and Kobe Lakers win three championships. Pretty crazy the amount of important basketball history that occurred in Kansas.
Yo. Tex Winter was an assistant coach with the Bulls for all six of their championships.
Yeah Phil gets all the coaching credit, but it was always Tex’s system that made those Bulls-Lakers teams elite
True and to be fair, Phil has given Tex plenty of credit over the years.
Tex Winter also played for the USC Men’s team alongside future Hall of Famers Bill Sharman and Alex Hannum. (Hannum entered the Hall for his coaching, Sharman was inducted twice - once as a player and again as a coach.)
Do things still change to grey scale when you enter the building?
Looks like 26-27 Lakers
The head coach of that team invented the triangle offense and got Shaq and Kobe their rings together so the Lakers could do worse
Same reason why most AND1 streetball players didn’t make it to the nba, it ain’t just about the handles
I swear to god everyone on YouTube thought “the Professor” could play in the NBA. Dude didn’t even start at his community college (Chemeketa) in Salem, OR because the guy he played behind had better in game handles and better jump shot.
i mean he’s also 5’10, but yeah even if he was taller.. that would never happen with his skill set which is mostly dribbling that looks cool in 1v1, don’t think he has speed.. shooting.. obviously can’t dunk so maybe he can make passes?
i can’t imagine who would actually think he could play D3 ball, let alone NBA
He was all state in high school. He could’ve played D3.
I don’t know why I think you are the real Kerry Kittles, but I do.
oh good to know, my error
The Professor himself also had no delusions of making it to the NBA himself either. He knew his limits and was more than happy to be a streetballer
The rules for dribbling were a lot stricter back then. But the video find is appreciated.
Still better than any of te scrubs in here now
I scored 35 in my 12 and under boys and girls club league
Yeah but you were 38, and on meth. They never stood a chance, rip in piss little angles
The question is what will happen if the NBA all of the sudden enforce, strictly, dribbling rules. How will modern players adjust.
Some all-star players won’t be all-star — Giannis
Small guards will become more important, notice how guards are getting bigger because they’re turning into running backs playing bully ball while traveling, palming and pushing off.
Some all-stars would still remain all-stars — Jokic.
It’s so hard in college clips to evaluate the quality of the offense without understanding the quality of the defense. There are tons of defenders who look good (in their stance, in front of the ball, hustling to the spot) but who lack the strength and speed to actually disrupt what the offense is trying to do. This applies to modern college players as well; even if there are defenders there you can’t tell if they are actually affecting the ball or just fruitlessly hustling. In this clip the defender didn’t exactly get dog walked and I could see no reason this player’s game wasn’t good enough for the league.
The clips from this era always look so cartoonish to me. Can anyone with knowledge explain why? Is it the camera tech at the time with lower frame rates?
Streamable sucks
Anybody who disrespects past players can’t call themselves a sports fan.
it’s giving the 💀 edit
Y’all need to turn on sound.
“The senior guard climaxes the big 82-72 win over the Jayhawks with a magnificent piece of dribbling.”
Are we still doing phrasing?
I hate the argument of “players are so athletic now”, ignoring the two most non-athletic players placing in the top MVP votes
Lol the dude can only dribble with his left hand for like two seconds. I’m sure it was impressive for the time but come on
Whichever hand he uses is spontaneously determined by his read and react of the defense and he did a great job dribbling out the clock avoiding getting fouled. Yet you want to speculate that he should’ve dribbled with his left hand for more than 2 seconds, or that he couldn’t because you didn’t see him keep it in that hand long enough? You’d have lost the ball thinking like that.
Lol the dude did the same move three times in order to go right. Because that’s his bag. You see it in all videos from this time. Impressive for the time.
https://youtube.com/shorts/dNLriOIzT2Y?si=ahYWEipFd8PffTpV
sheeit i can do that
This video is sped up isn’t it? And i think modern players are traveling way more distance per step which makes a massive difference
Barely touches the ball twice with the non-dominant hand.
much harder to do with the carrying rules back then, it’s pointless nitpicking anyway lol
ginobli led his team past team usa with just his left hand lol
and the other response to you is right, crossovers are way trickier with the palming/carrying rules, you needed to shield the ball away from the defense way more if you can’t just hang dribble everything and push/pull it wherever you want whenever you want
Chamberlains competition.
You can’t put him down for being a great player in his own era. It’s not like he was trained with today’s methods and then time traveled to the past to play against them. He was born and raised in the same era as everyone else.
Some people are too dumb to understand this concept, just gotta let them spew their trash opinions.
Lowkey racist.
No Lakers question Mikan’s achievements.
I mean, Mikan is like the poster boy for the fact that nobody really “only compares people to their contemporaries”. Mikan is on nobody’s top 20 list and he dominated his competition more than pretty much everybody on that list.
Fireman and Milk Man > Streamers
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What a Normal thing to say, I bet ur a Normal guy
Ive watched every tempo game this year, I’m not hating.
What a non-stupid thing to say, I bet ur a Smart guy
I’m not even trying to hate, but a professional boxer from 1958 would dominate you.
I mean no shit?
I’ve read your posts for the last 20 minutes, I’m not hating.
I feel like you’re trying to hate, because you didn’t have to post this comment
olivia miles would have those boys in a blender lmao
Then what, pray tell, are you trying to do?