[Shelburne] James Harden has delayed in re-signing with the Cleveland Cavaliers in order to grant them the ability to “poke around” Payton Watson.
Would solve a lot of issues for them.
Is Jalen Tyson not ready to take the starting 3 role? He’s 6’6, 215 - that’s decent size for small forward.
Had a career year last year, although he shrunk in the playoffs
He made a lot of mistakes in clutch situations last year and Atkinson didn’t seem to trust him. This roster could also use another true wing anyway, it’s a lot of guys 6’4” and under.
That’s funny because Kenny also made a few mistakes in the clutch and I don’t trust him.
You arent wrong but who was he supposed to put out there? Mitchell, wade, strus, sam, tyson, shroder were all unplayable, there’s not much you can do when like 5 out of 8 of your playoff rotation is playing horribly
Just call a TO G1 at like 8-0 instead of 17-0
Not wrong lol
Yeah, I don’t think I’ve been that pissed watching a basketball game.
in general he was just a fuckwad in interviews during the post season, looked jittery and frantic the whole run and made a bunch of bad calls throughout. Couldn’t take an ounce of accountability either and dropped the “Analytically we’re up” gem during a team meltdown.
All that said I don’t want to fully write him off, but confidence isn’t high at ALL lol.
The unanswered runs and bad post game interviews definitely contributed more to people turning on him than his rotations.
God damn
Yeah, Pacers have had a similar issue where they’ve been running stocky shooting guards at the 3 for years (I love Aaron Nesmith, but he’s out of position).
I was never an Issac Okoro fan for that reason.
Agreed. Would like to see them acquire Trey Murphy
I don’t see it with Tyson. Most of the hype around him was his 3pt shot but it’s so slow and his release is low. I think he’s always going to struggle in the playoffs with that shot. And yeah, the mental side was brutal, he was so bad in the playoffs. It’s like he doesn’t know how to play basketball. When he was playing well it was during a bunch of injuries and the team was playing with basically 0 structure. The second they had their guys in and they’re trying to play inside team concepts he looked nearly unplayable.
no he played well until harden got there and he was relegated to a much smaller bench role. it was a stark difference in play from him
Yeah, harden arriving marked the arrival of competent nba offense on the team. It was every man for himself all season to that point.
We had picked up steam before that after Garland started to get a little healthy. We were 13-5 over the last 18 games before the trade with an 118 offensive rating. We were ass before DG returned and for like the first 3-4 weeks after he returned where he looked rough.
I think Jaylon Tyson is excellent. He deserves a shot and should be a big-time contributor as a sixth man or starter at the 3. He’s one of the only Cavs players that plays with an edge and really fights. He’s talented as has a lot of heart. Watson has more size, athleticism, and could slide down to the 4 more regularly.
This is the year. He has shown development and maturity in his game. He was also shooting the lights out from 3, we’ll see if that lasts. He did fall off in the playoffs. The issue was that he couldn’t keep his cool. I don’t remember the exact timeline, but I’m pretty sure he got benched for a long time. Then, when he got subbed back in he got called for a foul and got in the guys face and squeezed his nuts (which was hilarious). I don’t think Kenny liked that at all
no shit lol
Excellent addition to the conversation
did tyson grab someone’s nuts or not? i’m not sure what response you expect from that
He grabbed his own nuts is what I was trying to say
oh! oh that changes everything lol. I mean I thought you were saying he grabbed some other player’s nads…maybe my reply will make more sense now
I was not watching closely in the playoffs, I mean watching Tyson. The whole team collapsed so I’m not sure how significant it is
That collapse might also explain his actions, sort of.
He was our 3rd or 4th best player for the majority of the regular season and then had a weird end to the season.
He missed almost a month at the end of the year and it caused him to miss the majority of our time establishing our playoff lineups. Strus got healthy at the same time and stole his spot. I think Tyson is a better player than Strus, but he makes boneheaded mistakes and had very few reps with the post Harden starters, meanwhile Strus is a vet and a bit of a playoff riser. Tyson did look rough when he did play in these playoffs, but it was also his first real postseason
It was more so the chemistry fit along side Harden just didn’t work and there wasn’t a ton of time to work through it any longer.
That’s crazy overvaluation for what he did during a stretch when the team had a ton of injuries and looked like ass. I’ve seen 0 evidence he can play team defense offense or high level basketball of any kind.
Not really. Tyson was putting up same if not better numbers than Strus did the year before when the Cavs had a record offensive year. For a year two rookie, that’s not over evaluation. That means his ceiling is potentially higher and his base is close to Strus. Him and Wade were our only POA defenders 🤣
Can’t play high level? The kid can play PG too. He’s only been in the league two years. Good grief.
I mean 45% 3pt shooting on decent volume is a pretty easy thing to get excited about.
It was more than just the shooting though. He has a pretty sick floater, a decent handle for a young wing, and in general had a great sense of when to kick out.
Defensively yea he was pretty slow on the switch at times though he showed flashes of being a solid defender. I was impressed enough by his offensive BBIQ for a 2nd year player that I’d like to think it’ll translate to his defense as well.
Based on the playoffs it seems like he’s not ready for playoff basketball at all, much less starting.
He’s young and he got a LOT better last year compared to his rookie year, so maybe he’ll grow into it, but having a more established and taller option (especially with Wade gone) is likely a good idea.
Absolutely vanished in the playoffs
Same age as Watson and arguably better
Same age, but not same length in the NBA
Strus would start over him
Now that’s a priddy man
When has depth ever been a problem?
Mediocre crashout whose only significant accomplishment was getting in some dudes face and playing with his dick
Hey I’m sorry he hurt your feelings but 13/5/2 on 61% TS doesn’t grow on trees yanno
Don’t forget top 10 efficiency in 3pt scoring
I’m loving the ambiguity of exactly whose dick he played with
Nah, nice role player but can’t be starting for a contender
There’s literally no way we know that with a 2 year player who improved massively from year 1 to 2.
I’m assuming you would be saying the same thing about Watson from years 1-3
I don’t think that’s the definitive conclusion about the player obviously(I don’t think anybody is saying that) but that is what he was last year.
Nope, I’m one of P-Wats biggest fans. I was the one clamoring for Watson to start over Braun after reddit swore the Nuggets were cooked after losing KCP (had no issue letting him walk, was a major reason they lost against the Timberwolves in 2024)
So somehow you knew Watson is starter worthy after year 2 he averaged 7 pts but you know Tyson is only a role player after year 2 averaging 13 pts?
Cause I actually watch basketball and not just box scores.
Would be better to play Watson/Mobley and bench/trade Allen IMO
Mobley isn’t strong enough to play the 5. Watson would be a tiny 4. We’d get killed on the boards
But Allen is currently tiny at the 5.
I just don’t think Watson is a 3.
Eh idk eye test/numbers show he does fine at the 5. SOME bigs give him trouble but mostly they are just specialists who are elite at o boards. Plus even if he’s small you have another 6’11 guy to help cover.
Fair about Watson though
This is such a bad take, it isn’t even box score watching just height watching
No it wouldn’t
Maybe he means Harden potentially leaving
That would add way more problems
What if this is how they get LeBron
This is how the Cavs can still win…
great, another team that wants Watson but can’t afford him at the price he wants and doesn’t want to give up anything worthwhile for him in a s&t. the line stretches around the block.
No, no, Rich Paul through his media surrogates has assured us he’s worth more that $25 mill a year and every team that has filled up their cap space with non-Watson players agrees.
At this point, the only team I can see accepting anything close to 25 is Milwaukee with their rebuild. Even then, I expect it to be somewhere around 16-18 which is a big drop.
The problem for Watson is that he’s not worth 20 mil a year for a tanking/middling team, and the teams that would benefit to that amount from him can’t pay him.
Don’t agree on the first part. Tanking/middling teams who need to take gambles for talent definitely can take swings on Watson. That’s why LAC + the Bucks are interested in him.
Well there’s teams who would like Peyton Watson in something like his current role, and there are teams who would like to bet on what he showed in a more on-ball role this last season. The Bucks, for example, might not be looking at him as a bench wing to shoot threes and defend, they might be looking at him as a potential versatile offensive talent.
People are more interested in the idea of him as a creator than what he actually is, which is a pretty inefficient player who frequently dribbles it off his own foot.
I would absolutely pay Watson $20m a year.
I think he should be in the $23-24M range, accounting for both the upside and the limited track record.
Rich Paul making Watson take the QO is the endgame
so a couple cap things here… S&T for Watson would cap Cleveland at the first apron, which CLE is currently \(25M below without James Harden. I imagine Schroeder and Strus are sent to other teams with picks/swaps attached, which means Watson, Harden, and any other end of bench signings Cleveland makes (and they would have to make a few) would have to share roughly \)55M if both of Schroeder and Strus are dumped with no salaries coming back. It can be done if Harden’s willing to take much, much less than the $42M he opted out of.
If they are sending out picks and swaps to unload Schroeder and Strus, what are they sending Denver to acquire Watson?
The pick and strus would go to nuggets. Seconds would go with Dennis I would guess
They have only one tradable first left and no seconds to trade for 5 years
You just trade all the assets. Dont worry about what is available and dont worry about the other team needing to agree with it. Just get it done!
They have one first swap One full first Two second rounders they acquired at draft They can trade
Cleveland does have 2 tradeable 1sts and a few available swaps and 2nds. they shouldn’t need to send all of it, but they’ll be able to make something work if they want to. They’re not quite as asset-poor as Denver.
They have one available 2nd. Schroeder has 2 years and $30 million left, and was bad last year. Good luck trading that contract without sending out a 1st
Cavs have two 2nds, they got one from Kings at the draft. Schroeders final year is only partially guaranteed at 4M, would be silly to attach a 1st
That makes it better then, didn’t realize next year was a partial guarantee. Still though, DFS was a de facto expiring and he took 3 2nds which convey in 2027 and 2028 (Cavs 2nds are more distant) and there are fairly limited teams with large enough TPE’s to take Schroeder. Don’t get me wrong I hope it happens, I’d love to see Watson on the Cavs instead of the Nuggets.
Cavs also have their 2031 1st they can trade. That alongside the 2 2nds is a decent haul.
Yeah Nuggets don’t want to take salary back so there will have to be a 3rd team. Hope Cavs land him too, would be a great fit
Nothing… Why would they have to send anything to Denver? Denver either chooses to match or let him go, right?
Cleveland would require a sign and trade
Copy, I was thinking Harden was leaving space for them to outright sign him.
Its rumored the Cavs would do a 3 year deal with him to bring down that first year number. All depends on who they are trying to acquire and at what number.
And then if they did all that, what would they even have to trade us for P-Wat? I don’t know how a deal with them could make us any better.
Hence the ‘poke around’ wording. No one is actively pursuing Watson. It’s all tire kickers.
Would be a terrible trade for the Cavs.
Sturs was pretty good for the Cavs in the playoffs IMO.
It would be great for the Cavs. Her a young wing that is 6 foot 8 and 23 years old. Strus was not the same after his foot injury, and Cavs have been needing a tall wing for like 7 years. Watson is exactly what they need, plus he even has a lot of upside. And I LOVE Strus - it would suck to see him go.
Straight up swap sure, with picks and swaps attached? I don’t see it man.
I’d do 2031 1st and two 2nds, don’t think it’s too steep. Cavs are pretty locked in with the other 4 starters so getting a player who fits as the 5th is worth it.
On the scrapping and offensive side kinda On defense, athletic wings ate him
Mike Gansey is a liar.
Harden deserves more credit for taking smaller deals and adapting his game based on the team makeup.
But somehow you’ll have people saying the opposite constantly saying hes trying to get the most possible when that hasn’t been the case since leaving houston
Yea, he clearly wants to win
lol well he should try playing better when it’s time to win
He doesn’t have the benefit of playing next to OG and Mikal.
He did all he could at age 36, when damn near everybody else his age or older was sitting at home.
He couldn’t even sit his ass on the bench since the team would stall without him. WHY TF IS A 36-YEAR OLD FORCED TO PLAY 30+ MINUTES A GAME IN THE FIRST PLACE???
because its his job
He might choke play offs like no one else but he always was a team player that was willingly taking huge paycuts to make his team better, that Rockets vs Warriors game should’ve been his.
I think his trade market and learning what teams were willing to pay him during the time he was forcing his way out of Philly really changed his outlook on things. He’s been very good about this kind of stuff ever since that.
Daryl Morey is a liar
he is the worst player to watch ever
usually in Cleveland, the athletes named “Watson” are the ones poking around.
got dayum
Nice
max strus and schroder for peyton watson honestly isn’t bad for both sides.
Those two make over $30 mil combined. No way Denver is taking on that kind of money. Getting Stus for Watson would be a coup for Denver though.
They can’t take back any salary being over the second apron. They need to duck the tax first to do that.
That is horrible for the cavs. Who do yall think pwat is?
he’s a dog
I think you dont know how bad strus and shorder are lol, strus hustles but he’ll shoot 6⁄8 from 3 1 out of 25 games and the other 24 hes going 1⁄8. Dude is just wayyyyy to inconsistent
So you want pwat? 3ppg scorer in the playoffs, had one good month HIS ENTIRE CAREER. Lmfao
Ok now we are being totally disingenuous
Not really. I’ve watched nearly every game of his career. It shouldn’t take 4 years to have one good month when the team is running out a g-league lineup due to injury.
Bet, lets see how next year goes.
That’s like another $200m+ added to the tax bill for Denver
Agreed. They need guard depth, we need wings
ITS TERRIBLE LAKERS PACKAGE IS MUCH BETTER
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He’s already gone and I’m honestly fine with it. We’ll get something in return and he clearly wants a bigger role with more money. It’s like Jerami Grant all over again. Grant didn’t want to be a 4th option so he left even though we offered him the same. Watson is hardly even our 5th option at this point with his unreliable he is
Watson is the better defender no? I think he is more valuable with Jokic than without.
He had his best stretch when Jokic was out. Thats the whole thing, he shows promise with the ball in his hands too.
He was forced to play on ball more because the Nuggets were running out a g-league lineup and he was ok at it and pretty inefficient. Good corner shooter though.
Least u got a ring with Jokic bro, chin up
But you get to keep spencer jones
When will this trade saga for Peyton watson end man
There’ll be nothing left to talk about afterwards. I thought The Decision 3 was going to drag on long enough to make this a non-story. But now it the headliner
We still have Duren, don’t give up hope!
Kuminga !
Fuck yes.
Wasn’t poking a Facebook thing?
I still don’t understand the point of it.
Shelburno
Pretty sure that’s an HR violation
Why are so many teams trying to get Watson? Isn’t he like the 5th best player on Denver and wants 20 mil a year?
He’s generously the only one of Denver’s role players that has shown they can be good (or improve) without Jokic. People can disagree but his best month was when Jokic was out.
Ie he’s their 5th-6th best player normally but is probably 3rd without Jokic on the floor.
15 games.
The other 39 he averaged 12/4/2 in 27 minutes.
not enough strip clubs in cleveland
Don’t tell me the Beard don’t got no heart
you just gotta poke around
Gotta respect Harden willingly working with every franchise he’s been apart of trying to win. No denying that
pause.
That would be a nice move for Cleveland better than JK that’s for sure
QO QO QO QO!
This off-season is delivering on drama!
Why? It doesn’t matter
The Cavs are not winning
Not happening, due to obvious salary and trade value reasons
Everyone knows how good Watson is , except Denver. Adelman didn’t play him until he had to due injuries and FO didn’t sign him to contract he deserves ( Pick Braun too early instead waiting ) …. Denver is just not serious
I can see him being great for Cavs their own Anunoby
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They’ve already agreed to whatever the contract is lol. Once he signs they’re locked from doing anything else thats the only reason it hasn’t happened yet.
They shoulda got LeBron too. Him and Watson there make them contenders
CAVS WILL ALWAYS BE PRETENDER’S
James Harden would have made a great snake soil salesman in the Wild West. Time after time he gets the same people to buy into his con despite everyone knowing it’s a con.
What con, he’s constantly taking pay cuts and accommodating for his teams lol.
He already made Cavs so much better this year even though they didn’t get much further lol
“if the Cavs were smart”
And then proceeds to say the dumbest thing possible
Daryl Morrey is a liar. Cavs aren’t that dirty.
Hell yeah, the team that is perpetually hurt every single season should trade for the guy who played 15 games last year and except for 2025 where he shit the bed and was unplayable in the playoffs, hasn’t played more than 45 games a season
If I’m the Cavs I would tell James Harden I don’t really want him back either, at least not for more than $20m/year
You forgot to take your 76ers flair off your burner Daryl
And do what with that cap space?
everything!
He just got them to the ecf 🤦♂️
He didn’t do anything except dribble the air out of the ball and get burned on defense lol
Thatsa cute fantasy lol, he carried them to the ecf regardless of your delusions.
https://imgur.com/a/4RCptwb
Notice how all the harden lineups are the positive ones? Because dmitch and mobley would go -20 in 2-3 minutes without Papa Harden out there to carry him.
https://youtu.be/doVlw7XJREw?is=Cs8SPcky88RNqEAM
https://youtube.com/shorts/iub3Kk3w7jQ?is=t6fnuePboZZLqpNe
“hE diD nOtHiNg bUt gEt cOokEd 👆🤓”
Nah you don’t get it the Cavs need a guy like Embiid to get to the ECF 🤔