Tony Allen reacts to his placement on Bleacher Report’s top 99 defenders of all time: “Bron, stop it bro. You never had to check nobody!”
His placement in the 20s isn’t that egregious compared to some others
Literal DPOYs Joakim Noah and Marc Gasol are listed in the 40s lmao
I love Marc, I love everything about Marc. He’s one of my favorite basketball players of all time.
Tony was a better defender than marc.
Defensive roles make these lists so hard
Tony was better at his role than Marc at his, but Marc’s defensive role is more important to a team
That’s my thought process too. The average center’s defense is more impactful than almost every guard.
To this day Marc Gasol is the only player I’ve seen who could just totally eliminate Embiid from a game. Other guys have done a pretty decent job at it for stretches (Al Horford), but they generally were just keeping him from getting to the rim and hoping his shot isn’t falling, Gasol just straight up made him a non-factor in most of our Raptors matchups.
Agreed. Its like when JJJ won All NBA. Brooks was just as good guarding all the superstars
One guy can anchor the defensive interior by himself. In contrast, perimeter defense is A) a much more cumulative effort, B) more difficult due to constant high screens, the inability to apply physicality in today’s game, etc., and C) does not show up on the stat sheet as much as interior defense.
It’s hard to say in my opinion. There is a reason that DPOY is so center heavy and it’s because their role on defense is way more important than guard and wing defenders.
3 blocks a game is easier to spot than a guy that consistently hold 30 point scorers to 20 points
If you’re Hassan Whiteside, sure, that’s what center defense might look like to you. Marc and Joakim were both way more than that.
It’s not just easier to spot, rim protection is a lot more important than isolation on-ball defense.
consistently hold 30 point scorers to 20 points
Nobody has ever done this.
Marc had an offensive burden. Tony got to stand in the corner on offense and conserve all his energy for defense.
Sure, I think Marc is by far the better overall NBA player
Well yeah, but the conversation is about defense.
Yes, did you see the comments I replied to?
Cracks me up how quickly some people get lost in conversations on here
Yes, I did. Commenter said Tony Allen could conserve energy on offense so he could play defense. The subject of the thread is greatest defensive players. Guess I dont really see the purpose in pointing out that Marc was the better overall player since that is known to anyone who remotely followed the game during this time.
So you clearly didn’t read the whole thread lol you’re responding to the guy who said that Tony was a better defender
marc locked up giannis and embid with us
without him we dont win the east so his role was insane
I was also really surprised by how far out he was getting to try to cut off Steph in the finals. His defensive IQ took us to the next level when we got him.
Yes. The 0 point game was hilarious. Iykyk.
Marc was insane. Tony was just that good too.
Indeed. But we’re in a era where young fans judge players strictly off stat sheets and accolades(which are votes on by people with varying criteras). This leaves you with a generation of fans speaking on players they’ve never watched play in their primes and judging them strictly on out of context stats.
It’s also a pretty prominent argument that Marc’s DPOY should’ve gone to LeBron.
Just a media narrative, Gasol was robbed of first team defense and beat LeBron in all advanced stats by a large margin that year.
You’re right. It’s actually the year before where he has a stronger argument against Tyson Chandler.
After the Mavs win the year before, the media probably wouldn’t have given it to LeBron over Chandler. But they are neck and neck in advanced metrics.
Don’t get MJ > AD
I’m surprised he is not in the top 10 lol. MJ over AD is not controversial.
Who is he better than in the top 10?
It absolutely is. Controversial, especially given ADs 2020 playoff run where he put on one of the best defensive performances in living memory
Because Joakim and Marc were only defensive demons for like 5 years. I get what you are saying though, their defensive peaks are def one of the best.
Having Bron ahead of Gasol is fucking insane
DPOY heavily favors bigs though and I personally hate that about the award largely due to the exact way you used it.
Yeah because it’s for the best defender. Not the best guard defender. The best defender pretty much always a big guy
I disagree with that.
And Its funny that this place shits on media members until it comes to an award voted on by them…then its gospel.
LeBron was switching off of Tony Parker to guard Tim Duncan on the same possessions in the ‘13 and ‘14 Finals and was able to stop them both
how many players in NBA history have been able to do that
not to mention completely blocking off the entire weak side of the floor from skip passes just due to his ability to steal any pass and run with it
or his chase down blocks in transition which no other player has come close to replicating in terms of volume
he was an elite defender in Miami both off and on ball
Yeah idk what Tony is saying I’ve definitely seen bron check people from a drose, Tim Duncan, Kg, Jamal Murray, Kd
Remember the night they ended Linsanity?
He’s saying it because it wasn’t LeBron’s job every night of the regular season for his career.
But it not being LeBron’s job every day doesn’t mean LeBron isn’t one of the greatest defenders ever.
Job assigned by coach vs actual ability.
LeBron has done things from clamping prime Rose, to Tony Parker, to Kawhi, to Durant, to Duncan, to even checking Jokic serviceably at 38 years old.
Tony Allen can’t do all of those things let alone over two decades.
So that’s where LeBron’s greatness shows. Being arguably the most versatile defender and doing it longer than anyone else.
LeBrons job was always so much more than the defense that you could even excuse lackluster defense…but it was still good. He could do all of these things and still be a great defender.
People love to hate on LeBron and pretend he was never good on defense when he was one the best in the league in his prime.
Theres alotta old player who got a weird hate for LeBron because of Jordan, then the wierdo Kobe stans who interject themselves. But theres a ton of bitter bitches out there who Lebron bent over for their whole career
LeBron has one of the highest defensive peaks ever, and in his prime was a terror.
The thing that’s frustrating is he still is a pretty awesome defender he either just will turn it on for big games or turns it on during a crucial quarter to win a game.
And people online hold that against him and say he’s a shit defender that he doesn’t do it every possession for 82 games, but that’s literally every superstar ever.
Every superstar as they age isn’t that same high intensity defender every possession of every game, but they still turn it on in stretches to win gamss or save it for big games.
But nobody ever applies that to other great players often times.
Yeah LeBron in his prime was an absolute game changer on defense. He was top 10 in DPOY voting for a 6 year stretch and was first team all defense all those years as well. He has a legit argument he should’ve won the award over Gasol when Gasol won the award as a second team all-defense player.
Andrei Kirilenko
People here too young
And honestly as a Bulls fan it pains me to say this but once Lebron started guarding Rose in the ECF 2011 that’s when the series was over
He was elite later in the first Cleveland stint, he was elite 2nd stint in Cleveland, and he was elite first couple years in LA, and he’s still pretty good, he just saves it for stretches these days.
I don’t like the narrative he was only a good defender in Miami.
I don’t know when everyone started acting like LeBron invented the chase down block, but he certainly did not. Nor is he “Mr. Chasedown Block.” Hell I had a massive one in a JV game in high school.
Was your nickname in high-school “speedhawk”?
Stoppp it. LeBron wasn’t stopping Duncan
Please watch the finals lebron was really locking players
not for entire games but for critical possessions here and there, sometimes in crunch time, he absolutely did
Bro KG a better defender than bron…..kg couldn’t stop Duncan, he’s literally said this. Bron wasn’t a Duncan stopper. Nobody was
Every player does. Doesn’t mean they can. Lebron was never guarding Duncan in 2013 or 2014 for the entire seried.
Because he had assignments everywhere.
Not every player does. Tony Allen, for example, is a player who would never switch on to Tim Duncan in critical possessions.
Well yeah because that’s not how modern NBA defense works lol you don’t even guard your primary assignment the entire series…
Literally switched on Duncan multiple times in the Finals and either stopped him or blocked him
Saying this doesn’t make it factual.
uhhh yeah he was lol but Duncan was old by then
Duncan was first team All-NBA in 2013. It’s not 2003 Duncan, but it’s still impressive.
Lebron went 5-11 in finals games vs Tim Duncan. Obviously he wasn’t defending well enough.
This reasoning is as egregious as someone saying TD never won finals mvp against a LeBron led team in the finals to justify it lol
It wasn’t just Timmy. They had 2-3 other Hall of famers lol.
The 2007 sweep makes it look worse
Man 23 is crazy, I know defensive bigs just inherently do more for your defense than perimeter players can but Tony Allen was a fuckin lunatic out there on people.
I remember watching him in our series against the Grizzlies. He made KD work
Who on the list do you think he should be ranked above? It’s the best defenders of all time, everyone in the top half of the list was an insane defender.
Anyone outside of the top 7 tbh.
Aside from Kawhi probably. But I feel he should be higher up also.
You just be joking. You think Tony Allen’s a better all time defender than Pippen, Kawhi, Gobert, and Draymond?
Gobert and Draymond, absolutely. You may notice my comment says I would put Kawhi above him. And I thought I read Pippen at 6 instead of 8. I’ll give you that one. He’s still much too low for how much impact he had on defense. That’s really the main point here.
That’s absurd. Rim protection is so much more valuable than perimeter defense, and Tony Allen wasn’t even playing big minutes in his prime!
That’s crazy. Anyone outside the top 7? You’re taking Tony Allen over Ron Artest, Gary Payton, and Dwight Howard?
Yes? You may be able to tell that by the way I typed it out.
This isn’t a ranking of who is the best player. It’s purely defense. If we’re talking overall player rankings, of course they’re above him.
This is a weird discussion to have in my opinion and reductive in a way that kind of cheapens what makes these defenders so good. Tony Allen is a great perimeter defender but as a Dubs fan it makes no sense to swap his defense for Draymond because team needs are the thing that’s actually relevant. I wouldn’t want Tony Allen on Jokic, Sabonis, or AD, guys that Draymond has capably defended in big games. It feels like there’s a more intelligent discussion to have than simply “TA>Dray and Gobert”.
I mean, of course you wouldn’t swap him out for Draymond. They play different positions. I’m talking purely defensive skill, which is all that was posed here.
Either way, it’s all opinion anyway. World keeps spinning.
Yeah it’s all just off-season chatter. I’d still argue that “purely defensive skill” is a pretty vague term. Between Dray, Gobert, and Tony Allen, Gobert easily has the best rim protection skills, Tony Allen the best 1-on-1 perimeter skills, and Draymond the most versatile skills. It’s hard for me to say any is definitely better than the others. Just my take.
Pippen is the greatest perimeter defender of all time, put some respect on his name.
Yeah that’s rough but it may have to do with the fact that we never saw prime Tony Allen without an elite defensive big behind him. Kind of crazy his prime was with the KG Celtics and Marc Gasol Grizzlies.
That’s a shame because it’s not like TA was one of those recovery defenders like Derrick White. He squared up and kept his matchup in front of him.
No stance on the rankings but I will say this:
Perimeter defenders are never going to be as highly regarded as people who rack up blocks and protect the rim. Watching a center block a shot seems more impactful than watching a guard defend someone on the wing even if it results in a bad shot/miss
It also comes down to the fact you can just not run an action for the guy being guarded by an elite perimeter defender or get them to switch/fight through screens.
Kawhi at his peak defensively was elite but even at his peak he really could only guard one guy. An elite rim protector can shut off the basket for an entire team which is clearly more impactful. Also having an elite rim protector allows the wings to be more aggressive defensively because they know they have someone who can clean up any mistakes.
Look at the Rudy and Mitchell Jazz. It was Rudy and 4 ok to bad perimeter defenders yet they were still a top 5 defence most of their season. If you swap Rudy for an average or worse defensive five and swap one of the wings for prime Kawhi they aren’t still going be a top five defence
Same with a great cornerback in football.
Maybe they can bait a pass and log an INT, but more frequently the stats for the receiver they cover is like one catch on 3 attempts, for 4 yards total. One of the highest compliments you can give them is that the ball is always going somewhere else.
I mean it’s not just about how they’re regarded, big defenders are so much more impactful than small defenders. That’s just a fact of life for the NBA.
Yeah it’s not how it’s regarded, it’s how it is. A guard locking up someone is amazing but someone like Wemby is effecting how all 5 guys on the court are playing around the basket
The finale pretty much showed you that HE CANT always protect the rim and when it comes down to it you need perimeter defenders to stop the best player on a majority of teams because a majority of the best players operate on the perimeter, We are in a 3pt era and perimer defenders matter alot
I feel like if that’s your takeaway from the finals you need to get better at evaluating what you’re watching. Both the Spurs and Knicks played very good defense and held each other to significantly worse offensive than they had in the regular season and the rest of the playoffs.
The issue for the Spurs was mostly the offense completely dying as games went on
Every team has a center. You put elite defenders around an average or even below average defensive center and you can still have an elite defense. The Knicks had a historic playoff defense with KAT at center and a 6ft guard.
It’s not like its Tony Allen at center vs Marc Gasol. Even Gobert got hunted until he got Jaden McDaniels.
Same with facilitator and playmaking guys on offense. They might provide more to winning but scorers and highlight reel guys will be higher overall on these lists to casuals. Eotd these lists are just opinions that dont mean anything except for engagement and people who play have their own rankings and methodologies.
Bleacher Report is a joke.
It always has been. They just go with the popular sentiment.
It’s turned into Klutch propaganda
Just cause Bron played 10 years longer than most of this list doesn’t make his first 13 less meaningful.
LeBron being a bad defender for the last like 10 regular seasons has messed with people’s memories. people have genuinely forgotten that he was an amazing defender during his mid 20s to early 30s. And even in the last couple years of his Cavs stint and early LA years, he could still be a lockdown defender in the playoffs when he had to be. Hell even last playoffs he can still be decent/not a cone when he had to be
Bro literally clamped prime Jokic in the olympics at 40
Yep that’s true. Just love the people who say LeBrons a beast defender for the lakers lol. Just insane comments lol
I remember watching him having to guard Shaq on a play and thinking there’s a very short list of players in the history of the NBA that could legit guard the full range of players from Shaq to Steph when needed.
The random stray Terrance Ross catches at the end 😂🤣
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/25453249-best-nba-defenders-ever
All these reply yet none of you mfers linked the list smh. Especially you OP out here just collecting updoots
Tony Allen is the greatest and most effective on-ball perimeter defender in NBA history imo. The man was a straight up defensive psycho and he never really got enough praise when he was in the league. Sure he has defensive team accolades but I feel his name never comes up when people are talking about the greatest defenders ever.
You legitimately think he was more effective than Kawhi or Pippen?
Yes, for one simple reason, stamina.
Pippen and Kawhi both had massive roles offensively on their team that they had to fulfill meaning defense wasn’t always at the top of their priority especially when guarding the opposing team’s best shot creator. Tony Allen didn’t have those same concerns offensively and focused all of his attention on defense. Kawhi and Pippen could get tired or reserve their energy on defense, Allen never had to. He was nonstop relentless.
To that type of argument, Tony Allen was only playing 20-26 minutes a game even in his prime, so it’s not like he was out there all game working on defense. Kawhi, especially, was very much a defensive specialist when he won his DPOYs and he was playing more than 30 minutes a game so that’s an especially unfair argument to use against him.
Tony Allen never averaged more than 27 mins per game he can’t be more impactful in D than Kawhi or Scottie
Yeah and honestly, I would NEVER say a two way superstar should be at the top of a list like this (exception to Hakeem).
They just don’t put the same amount of effort on defense like a role player in TA or Rodman, that’s their sole existence man. TA is checking the best offensive player every game.
I mean Tim Duncan and kevin Garnett were two way players and good at defense
I’d favor peak Kawhi and the glove over him but he’s on the short list.
He’s not better than Pippen or Kawhi
Coz no one cares about perimeter defense lol. And to this day nobody would unless they could get fake internet points by talking aboutnitb
Lebron has a legitimate argument as the best help defender the game has ever seen. His peak was that good
weakside Bron was scary. Bro was playing football the way he would get out and cover
Bron was literally a DPOTY candidate while also being an MVP and best offensive player in the NBA
Come on now man, what are we talking about here
being an MVP and best offensive player has nothing to do with it, sure it’s impressive how he’s a two-way player, but in this list they’re talking about best defenders, and offense has nothing to do with it
Lebron finished top 2 in dpoy twice and at his peak he was the best help defender ever. He could get a stop on anyone 1-5. Goes nuts in the playoffs too.
One year in the playoffs he shut down pre-injury, MVP Derrick Rose. The next he annihilated Paul Pierce. The season after that he toggled between Duncan and Parker in the finals.
Peak LeBron was impossible.
Bleacher report is still a thing?
Idk man being ranked in the top 25 ALL TIME is an honor no matter where you specifically fall in my opinion.
The difference between the players listed basically comes down to size and position. (A center has much more impact on defence than a perimeter defender for example).
If you were to just look at the mostly “perimeter defenders” on that list, TA is basically top 10 all time.
Zo was really good defensively. With the exception of when he had to guard Shaq who was always motivated to drop 30.
We hear too many player opinions. There’s just so many. We need actual sports journalism back
It’s back and stronger than ever because of podcasts, you just have to go searching for it. Won’t find anything of substance on this sub because it’s built the way Adam Silver wants his league perceived… for drama & highlights that drive views. Most of this sub doesn’t actually care to understand the nuances of the game
blame the journalists. A vast majority of them don’t even watch the game.
LeBron is somehow one of the underrated defenders, the dude can do everything at an elite level
This list no good
Did that say Michael Jordan at #14?!? GTFO
Can’t tell if you think that’s too high or too low
Saw LeBron check PRIME drose in the playoffs on drive attempts. Y’all are crazy if you think this is too high for him
Rudy being above Dwight and Kawhi was insane
How is Kawhi a better defender than Rudy Gobert?
Is it though? He is a better rim protector than Dwight ever was and Kawhi was a great wing/PoA defender. He never made someone who beat the primary defender to stop on his tracks instead of attacking the basket because they’d get stuffed.
People underestimate how a great shot blocker warps the opposing offense.
Can’t take this list serious. No Gerald Wallace on the list? Andrei Kirilenko at 39?! LULZ
You clearly never watched Andrei Kirilenko play
Show Ak47 some respect.
God damn, I need more Tony Allen content. This was too entertaining
Yeah everyone is complaining about the rankings, but this dude is incredible. That last little riff about the DM was great
his podcast with zbo is good
I think probably he should be over LeBron. But this is literally the same as an offensive player overrating his one on one skills compared to the total impact. Tony Allen sure was making it difficult to the guy he’s guarding but put him with 4 average to below average defenders he’s not able to carry that defense as much as a big guy. If anything, he played in the best era to be this type of defender. They weren’t switching as much and the teams didn’t have as much depth to just say hey let’s just have someone else initiate the offense. Anthony Davis for sure anchoring a defense much better than tony allen
Lebron at his peak is absolutely one of the greatest defenders of all time. I don’t think there’s another player that could guard pg and centers both at the level LeBron could
Question is if we value on ball defense or rim defense more.
One makes Tony Allen and Gary Payton highly valuable on the list, the other says Wemby and Hakeem is worth more.
I mean bron did guard smaller guards in pivotal playoff moments (Drose/ Jamal murray)
It made me happy how excited he was to see himself 😂😂😂
LeBron from around 2009-2014 was the best wing defender, help defender, and switching defender in the league and it wasn’t particularly close. I remember an article from his Heat days talking about how help defenders measured up against a computer simulation of where they should be, and LeBron was by far the best and most active. He also was the one guy in the league who could switch 1-5 and defend all positions at an elite level which gave the Heatles insane defensive versatility. I don’t know if all that makes him better than some of the guys ranked below him but just because he got lazier after he turned like 33 doesn’t mean he wasn’t a beast in his prime.
T Ross caught a stray lmao
The entire top 50 should just be elite centers and power forwards. Perimeter defenders are so overrated (relative to impact).
Just because some people underrate him doesn’t mean the rest of people need to overrate him. Seems like a fair placement to me.
If anyone here never watched him play, please find some clips on YouTube. Tony Allen in the best defender at his position I’ve ever seen. I recall Kobe saying TA is the best defender he’s ever played against. Should be top 10, minimum. If he wasn’t completely inept on offense, I think he would be.
1 on 1 positional defense is arguably the most overrated skill in the NBA. Even if you want to say Tony Allen literally deletes the person he is defending from the game (which he didn’t), someone who roams and defends multiple players at once is always going to be more impactful.
Basically every person ahead of Tony on that list did that except for maybe Metta World Peace.
Their list basically has him as the second best 1 on 1 defender in NBA history. Thats pretty good
Just a reminder that the Tony Allen “Grindfather”-themed Pepper Grinder is the greatest promotional giveaway item in sports history.
Reasonable reaction crazy he wasn’t at least top 10 lol.
Top 10 too high pretty much no non-big man should be top 10 but he’s easily top 20.
Lebron ain’t even top 50 defenders.
You can tell when people are just haters.
Tony Allen? Bruce Bowen? Bobby Jones? Sidney Moncrief? Michael Cooper? Jason Kidd? Marcus Camby? Andre Iguodala? Jrue Holiday? Alvin Robertson? Wemby? Adebayo? Kirilenko? Walt Frazier? Joakim Noah? Tyson Chandler? Joe Dumars? Dennis Johnson? Jimmy Butler? Marc Gasol? Pat Ewing? Shawn Marion? Mo Cheeks? Tayshaun Prince? Marcus Smart? Shane Battier? Kevin McHale? Rondo? Ibaka? Blaylock? Rasheed? Doug Christie? McMillan? Cowens? Ratliff? Eddie Jones? Anunoby?
Plus the rest who were ranked over him.
In terms of impact on the game he is better than pretty much all the guards. There is only so much value you can provide at that size compared to an elite wing defender who provides a decent level of rim protection.
How many people on that list can guard 1-5 bud
Lebron can play 1-5 he can’t defend 1-5. There’s a difference. Also LeBron’s a great help defender not a great individual defenders there’s a difference there too.
He has 5 first team all defense and finished in the top two of voting twice but he can’t guard 1-5 …. They don’t give first teams to great help defenders
Rudy Gobert at #9 is wild. besides last year’s series vs Denver, he’s been mid in the playoffs. a regular season defensive stat padder.
it’s wild to put him over David Robinson or Dwight Howard.
Brother, say what you want about how goofy he comes off but he’s a 4x DPOY. The only other players in the history of the game who have done that are Dikembe and Ben Wallace & they’re both head of him on this list.
come on in front of Dwight Howard?
Dwight was the leader of a team that got to the finals, taking down Celtics and Bron.
KG has only 1 DPOY so if we are going by those standards then this list blows.
Why do nba players become the most brain dead human beings as soon as you put them on a podcast? Cringe shit
Boy do i have some news for you
And that news is? That they’ve always been idiots?
You’re already proving that you’re smarter than most nba players
The bar is in hell
LeBron at 22 is actually crazy high. Tony Allen is right more than half of LeBron’s career they put him on the weakest offensive player.
Lebron has an argument as the best help defender the game has ever seen lol. His defense in Miami was on another level
Alright we just saying anything now. He literally had a teammate that was easily a better help defender.
How old were you when LeBron was on the Heat?
I’ve watched LeBron’s entire career. His help defense was never as good as AD’s
Lebron’s speed made him a better help defender across the entire floor. AD was a better rim protector, which i suspect is what you actually mean.
Nah AD’s length made him more than capable to close out and he is shockingly elite at not getting blown by even though he’s basically a 7 footer. Hes a menace on help defense never see guards struggle so much against a big man on the perimeter.
And also help defense on the interior is more impactful than on then perimeter.
Yeah I mean your comment is entirely accurate, LeBron was simply better than AD in his defensive prime because he could get around the floor so much more quickly. His help on the perimeter was that good.
lol are we acting like the heatles was a long time ago?
Enough people clearly never saw Heat LeBron that I felt compelled to ask.
If that’s true. Then this entire sub has no right talking about MJ/Kobe/Duncan lol
That is also true.
LeBron anchored the defence of 9 Finals teams. If anything, it’s low.
I mean, no shit the guy running your entire offense isn’t going to be asked to also be the most active defender
If LeBron sucked on offense he’d be able to play more defense, that wouldn’t make him a better defender
Sure. But we don’t give credit to be people for what they could do.
He has done it, which is how we know he can.
Thats how we know he is such a good defender, and him being such a good defender is why he is high on this list
In spurts. There’s players who have done it their entire career. They get more credit on defense for it.
If one person does something 20% of the time and another does it 95% of the time. I’m going to rank the person who does it 95% of the time higher.
But he was always able to ramp that percentage way up in the playoffs.
I mean every great player does
That doesn’t make them better defenders, which is what this list is about