Nuggets Forward Cam Johnson Explains To Astrophysicist Neil Degrasse Tyson Why Dunks Are Worth 2 Points and Not 1
Cam is the one patient enough to let the counterargument finish.. . 3 times..
As a huge astrophysicist nerd man I can’t stand Neil sometimes. He thinks because he’s smarter at most things than others that he’s always right. So hard to make someone that argumentative take a loss. His star talk podcast works well because chuck nice is amazing at not letting NDT take over with that stuff and is really funny too. Gotta have that or you get tired of hearing this mf even if he is insightful.
NDT is weird because he’s highly educated and genuinely qualified but for some reason he likes to talk like someone who is just pretending to be smart
Man, you have a PhD and actual expertise; why are you being performative?
why are you being performative?
Money and clout. And it’s worked for him.
I don’t think it’s the being performative and arrogant is what has actually worked for him. I think that mostly came after he had already gained popularity.
He originally gained popularity and became a household name by following in the footsteps of Carl Sagan. NDT could be even more well known and liked if he was more humble and curious like Sagan.
I’ve seen him talk in person, years ago before he was massive.
His loud, performative style in talking about astrophysics is charming and different from so many other scientists. It just is much more obnoxious when he talks about things outside of his domain.
I generally like him, but he does seem like the kind of guy who has really strong opinions on pretty much any topic and won’t hesitate to argue them.
I think he’s just trying to make science accessible to as many people as he can. He knows the nerds will already watch his show. So I think he engages in some intentional layman banter on purpose to bring the conversation back from the quantum effects in gamma ray bursts lol.
And honestly, I think it works. He’s not trying to be an authority on science either. You can see it with your own eyes. Whenever he has an expert on his show, he becomes an excited student.
Also, a lot of smart people think of absurd things. I mean, what Niel is saying makes sense on the surface. And it opened up a dialogue that lead to me considering a counterargument I never thought of. The unintended effects of making dunking 1 points is that players would be punished for dunking lol. Genius.
Again, I think it’s good there is a conversational non-technicratic space for science where it feels more like a Daily or Night show, but it’s not about pop culture and politics. And he’s genuinely a great host for that theme.
How many living astrophysicists can you name? For me, it’s one. That’s why he does that. He might be considered an ass in the actual community, I dont know. But he’s known by filthy casuals like me.
I think he is considered an ass, though he wasn’t twenty years ago. I’ve also heard he steals research from his graduate students
he steals research from his graduate students
You’d be surprised at how much contribution a lot of authors on published papers actually do.
I am an author on a scientific paper published by an Ivy League. All I did was my regular job as an engineer, but my company worked out a deal with the university to get my name added to list of authors with a company mention in the paper (they used our product in their research, it wasn’t a paid advertisement.) I never even read the paper.
that’s insane, but is not surprising to me (also in academia)
If you think that’s nuts, imagine my reaction when I got an email from some journal that a paper I was apparently an author on was published, in a subject I not only don’t have a degree in but wasn’t my main area of study at all.
I have never submitted a paper for publication let alone made one that I thought was even worthy of publication.
Turns out 15 years prior to the email a paper I wrote in a geopolitics class was cited and used as a basis for one of the pillars of the published papers argument. That paper was something I submitted as an undergrad and got a B on, my prof at the time felt that while my argument was well constructed I drew the wrong conclusions on how the topic would play out. Funny enough, that same professor that disagreed with me must have changed his mind (things played out closer to my paper’s predictions) and he included me in his published piece and used some of my arguments.
Shout out to Dr. R tho, the keep a paper in mind 15 years later from a student who was adamant you were wrong, and to then basically publicly state “yeah this kid was right” in your own way? Respect.
One of my college professors joked they were stealing material from the high caliber students. And not even reading the assignments from students he considered mediocre.
As an adult I realize. This mother fucker was not joking.
Because the average person can’t follow him when he’s **actually** smart, so he dumbs it down and makes it performative so people can follow him more or less.
See people sound smart but when they go off about shit outside their wheelhouse theid ignorance is exposed. Find a clip about NDT talking about something youre knowledgeable on and you’ll realize how often he talks out of his ass
The other thing I’ll say about him is that he likes to play devil’s advocate and he likes to get into logical arguments for the fun of it - just like he does here.
He’s not legitimately arguing for dunks to be worth 1 point, but he’s using the logic of a 3-pointer to argue for it just to see if the other person can give a reasonable, logical explanation for why things are the way they are.
Thomas does a good job of that, and Neil looks dumb because of it. But he succeeded in bringing about a fairly interesting sidebar conversation.
But yeah… sometimes Neil truly is just talking out of his ass and thinking he’s smart about a topic that he really isn’t.
That’s fair. I don’t have a huge problem with him but sometimes he reminds me of annoying conversations I’ve had
Oh, 100%. I love him when he’s a narrator or when he’s specifically being asked questions about physics. But when he’s in more of a conversational format, he can be really annoying.
He constantly talks over and interrupts people. While I understand the devil’s advocate thing, that can also be pretty annoying at times because you know he’s just debating for the sake of debating. He’s that guy who everyone knows who thinks he’s smarter and more important than he is - but he actually is smart and important, just not with topics outside his wheelhouse.
Jordan Peterson became king of that as soon as he stepped out of psychology and into yappology
This. If you watch some interviews, you can see him trying to dumb down what he’s about to say to make it easier for the average person to understand sometimes. I appreciate that because I’m dumb as a bag of bricks.
One of my favorite quotes is “If you can’t explain something simply, you don’t understand it well enough”
Bro, they are literally just shooting the shit. And we’re watching. This is just entertainment and they know it. They’re podding. Why are yall this serious about this?
An astrophysicist willing to bs — in a world where ppl get annoyed over silly stubbornness in a slam dunk argument that they chose to watch — is a luxury.
People are so ungrateful
Have you been in an Astrophysics class?
Tbh he clearly lost this one. He went silent when Cam pointed out the fast break situation.
Check out his appearance on Celebrity Jeopardy. He is woefully ignorant on a lot of subjects.
He has Nobel disease without the Nobel prize.
Let me prove to this experienced professional in a field I have no experience in that I understand it better than he does - this is Neil all the tiiiiiiime
Nobody loves listening to Neil Degrasse Tyson more than Neil Degrasse Tyson
You can’t mic drop and then just keep talking man
He tried to filibuster. Sometimes you talk long enough other people lose interest or just move on
Genuinely dislikable guy. Loves his own farts.
”2 points is 2 points”. Why isn’t he smart enough to leave other peoples areas of interest alone if he fundamentally doesn’t understand it?
Yes, he should just shut up and science.
Is everyone a NDT hater these days or have I just found my people? He’s annoyed the hell out of me since the beginning because he’s a know it all on literally every topic ever
Reddit really doesn’t like him, which is kind of funny, because I kind of feel like Neil would be the perfect person to play the human embodiment of Reddit. He’s got that perfect condescending energy
15 years ago he was a Reddit darling to the point where redditors liking him was a meme lol. People just got burnt out on it and the sentiment turned or something I think
No one hates redditors more than other redditors, so it makes sense
Source: I trash reddit nerds all the time
I like NDT but he has said this same point a few times now and he’s very pleased with himself every time I guess because he thinks it’s impenetrable logic. But it’s a game for entertainment and it would literally disincentivize scoring at the basket and turn the game into a clank fest.
If half court was 4 points then how many players would start jacking it up? Not everyone is Curry
It’s also incredibly hard to dunk… like, you have to be able to jump high enough. Can you dunk, Neil? No? Ok. End of.
he caught it with his ass
Of course you can, he just did it and we watched it lol
His point I guess is,
1 point near
2 points mid
3 points far
Kinda makes sense if you have zero care about basketball like him but argument collapses within seconds of thinking about it lmao
I thought NDT was going to say the dunk should be worth 3. That would be interesting.
He actually also said that shooting from 3 shouldn’t be called “from downtown”, which makes perfect sense since the busiest part of the court is near the ring, thus making it “downtown” making the 3 point line, the suburbs lol
So yeah some interesting stuff was said definitely, but the clip OP posted was not one of them
I always thought the “from downtown” was like saying they were shooting from so far away, they might as well be outside the arena, which is normally in the downtown of the city
Yes! It just simply means the shooter is shooting from so far and exaggerated. it’s not that deep, sounds good on tv, and catchy.
In Bulls games, the late, great Stacey King would name-drop Chicago suburbs instead if it was far enough away from the 3-point line.
Josh Giddey from O-Block!
Bob Fitzgerald has had that schtick for over 20 years.
“He shot that from Piedmont!”
Matt Devlin often does that with the Raptors, and if it’s real far out he’ll just start naming Canadian cities.
That’s North Korean rules
This is legit something I might of thought when I was 5.
might of
Leave him alone hes only 6
That’s how you create a game with only 3 point shots basically lol
We already have that too, if you think in terms of percentages - free throws are worth 1 and have the highest percentage.
Middies are easier than driving.
They are easier to take but they go in less often than shots at the rim
Bro really thought he cooked there lmao.
He was literally laughing at himself as he made the comment.
I don’t think he was being particularly serious about it.
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They
Always fun to see a profound lack of self awareness in the wild
“Throwing stones from inside the house”
Your confusion is thinking Reddit is all the same type of people. There are a minority of regular people here. The OP was generalizing.
Where tf do you think you are? “Everyone is autistic but me” yeah ok
I think he knew it was a joke but thought he had a point as a dude who probably doesn’t watch sports. He’s a notoriously annoying guy who always tries to apply bizarre logic to nonsense
He can think he has a “logical” point, but at the same time know that it is a dumbass comment to be making in real life. I am 99% certain by his approach that he absolutely knows that it’s dumb, and is just doing it for the sake of the discussion/podcast.
He’s just a dork man, like the rest of you. Not harming anyone.
It’s the kind of thing you’d hear at the comic book shop from the kid who just loves to argue. “Well, logically speaking…” kinda stuff. Very annoying.
Normally I would agree, but this is Neil Degrasse Tyson
Mic drop was so cringe
You should hear his dad jokes.
NDT has been a professional troll for years now.
I’d ask Neil what’s an easier basket for him or the average person to make, 3 point or a dunk. Maybe that should also be taken into consideration when deducing point value.
Right!? I can personally make infinity more NBA 3 pointers than I could make dunks.
Okay then why is a three pointer worth more.
Really dislike how he wants to appear to look so smart. Even does the mic drop shit. Like just shut up already
Nah, this is crazy that people don’t realize it’s a joke. He’s laughing for a reason.
Internet’s so full of hate, it’s not that serious?
It’s supposed to be a lax conversation where you share dumbass takes and get proven wrong by a buddy, it’s normal conversation.
That’s his whole shtick is to sound PHD level while only using basic high school level physics concepts
He is genuinely a PhD astrophysicist from Columbia and was the director of the Hayden Planetarium before he became a public educator type. He uses basic ideas on purpose because that’s how get became renowned as a communicator in the first place - translating advanced ideas into something digestible by the masses. It would be asinine to assume that, because he is using simple terminology he doesn’t actually understand and/or isn’t trying to communicate something more advanced.
I wonder how “NDT is a bit oversaturated” swung all the way to “NDT doesn’t know shit” to so many
I love NDT but man can he be annoying sometimes. Especially on podcasts where things outside his expertise are being discussed. He needs to learn to let others talk too
Sometimes?
Yes, sometimes. I actually watch his stuff so yeah I can see why you’d think he’s always like this if you only see clips. He’s not always like this i promise 😭
No matter how smart your father is, he’s gonna dad in some way or another. In this case you can imagine his kids knowing he’s trying to say and how serious he is, but absolutely cringing at the bad habits and delivery. Welp there goes dad again doin his thing
I hate him and he’s annoying all the time
I’d argue dunks are the hardest way to obtain points. Everyone can make a layup or three pointer. I will die before I ever dunk a basketball.
You’re not an NBA player. The same logic does not apply to them. That is a silly argument.
Truly incredible logic. “It’s harder for Giannis to dunk than make a 3 because any of us can make 3s!”
Its also just straight up impossible if you dont have hops.
I love NDT but he sounds like my dad talking about basketball here (my dad doesn’t watch basketball)
common NDT L
NDT must be sniffing straight retardium
Ok, I might need to start listening to Old Man and the 3 again
Hypothetically, would a 2.5 point zone bring back the midrange
I want dunks to be worth 3 points to balance out all this shooting that’s taken over the league. Get back to what Naismith envisioned and reward players for actually attacking the rim
Hell nawl
Cant do dis
This sub isn’t good at nuanced conversation (shocker)
He is stressing the IF on the 3 points for a reason.
IF a 3 pointer is worth more because it’s far away, why do we not evaluate close shots the same way.
Cam says enterainment.
Ok! So is chucking 3’s more entertaining?
Then why are we incentivizing them?
Read between the lines people.
NDT is a douchebag who thinks he knows as much about everything as he does astrophysics.
Ok now were overreacting to this video. Its not that serious, hes just messing around
There’s kind of a need for some douchebags to talk sense to other douchebags. So while yes, he’s a bit annoying here, and is being a huge douchebag, I still do want to have at least one more intelligent voice educating the people who listen to Joe fucking Rogan
One rule change I always wanted to see are dunks being worth 3. It would encourage guys going to the basket and less 3’s, and make the most exciting play of the game worth the most.
I think that might lead to more injuries though.
Well, I know it was a joke, but that was an intelligent answer.
I think there was story/myth about Michael Jordan where a professor wrote to him that he should use lay ups instead of dunks, because, statistically, he’s more likely to miss a dunk and both award 2 points. And the answer was pretty much the same.
Counterpoint, make dunk 3 points if it’s with acrobatic finish
I mean, in today’s NBA, we see fast breaks where the dude will pull up for a 3 as a default.
This is like saying a touchdown scored from the 1 yard line should be 3 points instead of 6
Dunk should be 3 points
got eem
Actually a dunk should be worth four points
This guy is the Stephen A. Smith of science.
One of the worst takes i’ve ever heard
I don’t really understand the argument from Tyson here. The logic is that everything within the arc is worth 2 points, everything outside 3 points - pretty easy and smart. If we take his logic that a dunk is 1 point cause it’s so near (which would affect layups too), that just creates even more arbitrary ranges.
Also, it’s a sport for entertainment. There wouldn’t be any benefits to his argument at all.
Cam’s voice is so silky smooth. Miss that guy
Tf?
I knew this was going to be a hate thread for Neil. I love listening to the guy. I don’t ever miss an episode of Star Talk.
I’m not sure about the whole context but if it’s the idea that 3 points for 30ft away vs dropping it in then with the same logic a lay up should also be worth one point
I think this is a good idea and then every shot in between is worth somewhere between 1 and 3 points. Every shot they should calculate how far away you are from the basket so a long midrange is 2.7 points but a layup is 1.03 because you’re close but you didn’t dunk. That sounds like a cool and fun game to watch, doesn’t it Dr.Space?
I guess I can spare a few minutes to scroll the comments. Pretty funny reading about the hate-boner Redditors have for this dude.
Neil’s usefulness drops off tremendously as he gets even one step away from direct astrophysics, but his pompousness remains the same. And his usefulness as an astrophysicist I’m not even sure about, you’d have to ask astrophysicists. I suspect Neil has had too many people kiss his ass for way too long.
This is actually a really fun convo haha
Astrophysics is just some made up bs anyway. Means absolutely nothing.
Neil deGrasse Tyson is (I’m sorry to say) a buffoon who has been showing his ass on social media for far too long
yes, because the big issue fans have with the modern nba is “too much dunking”.
Neil, bro, the dunk is to game momentum as the moon is to shifting oceanic tides. The moon might be easier to see and reach than Mars but it’s impact on Earth is far greater than Mars.
I love Neil but he would be the worst type to have any sort of bar argument with because of his smug over generalizations.
What a dickhead
End of the day the object is not to score more points. The object is to get more viewers because then the NBA gets more money. Tyson is looking at it wrong
the fact he was an amazing athlete in high school still baffles me because I’ve only seen him as an older man. Great wrestler, could dunk and everything
I mean originally, a basket was 1 point.
But I think to differentiate between field goals and FTs, they made field goals 2 points. Not sure there’s any hard data for that, but it did change early on.
Honestly… NDT might be on the right track. Ever since NBA teams did the math and figured out that the only shots worth taking are layups/dunks and 3’s, the midrange has been eliminated.
So what if we make a new 6’ arc around the basket. Everything inside of it is 2 points, everything outside of it is 3 pts, and the old 3pt line becomes a 4pt line. Now it makes more sense to take a midrange shot because the reward is there.
Imagine what would happen to the league if dunking the ball became the most inefficient shot.
I almost watched this. Glad I watched Dominique foxworrth talk about labor rights and CBAs instead
The paradox of entertainment… how far to go.
The pain of dunking the ball is why it’s two points. 🎤 drop
Make oops 4
This is peak offseason
This guy is supposed to be smart?
“De-incentivize”
Is NDT actually stupid?
This guy is a fucking jackass
Zqppc
He went the wrong way, dunks should be three if anything
who tf says “slam dunk”
A better counter argument is: 3 pts outside the 3pt line 2 pts within - regardless of just inside it, or a dunk
Simple really.
I love you Neil but man you don’t know jack about basketball.
Neil is a genius as an astrophysicist, but man, his takes outside of that are pretty bad. He loves hearing himself talk.
If dunks were worth 3 the game would be better.
One of the dumbest things Tyson has ever said
This dude suuuuuucks on so many levels. Unsurprised he’d have such a bad take and then refuse to let the other guy talk.
All white people agree
#Degrasse Tyson is basically a conman.
Impressed by this CJ kid though.
Its fine the way it is now. Except I would like a cap per quarter on 3 pointers being worth three. Just to shake up the offensive decisions and incentive variety.
Stop it, Neil Degrasse Tyson.
I like Neil a lot and love hearing him talk about space but man can he be obnoxious sometimes
Should make it 3 points for a dunk
About as bad of an idea as the golden snitch being worth 150
Did he really think he was dropping some sophisticated idea with that? Lol
Neil was a wrestler. They will never understand basketball 😂
NDT is really dumb to be as smart as he is.
Neil…
Can you dunk?
Ahhh Neil Degrasse Tyson, Mike Tyson’s ugly step-sister.
So free throws should be 2?
I love Neil, but he’s always been terrible at picking his battles
Neil Degrasse Tyson: “basketball would be better if it was much less fun”
Neil is so annoying
If dunks were worth 3, viewership would triple
He’s the dumbest smart dude ever. He comes up with just frankly, bafflingly stupid takes all the time.
It’s for clicks obviously, like Kerr saying to get rid of the 3 but still. What a fucking dumb thing to say.
No dunks should be worth 3 and 3’s should be worth 2 so it incentivizes people to attack the hoop and will De-Incentivize players to just shoot 3’s all the time..
STAY IN YOUR LANE
Shut up nerd
Stick to spor….science.
Hollywood’s promotion of the nerdism agenda has gone too far!
Stick to science! Shut up and calculate! Leave the sports to the professionals!
Because the dunk has a 99% chance of going in, ensuring two point offensively.
The 1% is coming from Russel Westbrook.
Hear me out: a stylish dunk should be worth three points
This is exactly how the wrong analytics team can put your franchise directly in the trash. Upper management is going to listen to him and his logic rather than the player.
“In a mirror, you can kiss yourself only on the lips.”
-Cam Johnson
Most Astro physicists wouldn’t even watch basketball let alone critique it. Stop hating on NDT, he’s a cool dude
I’d put it the other way around (which still makes no sense) dunking would be 2 points. 1 point if you just shoot it in from the inside.
Dunks should be worth 3 points
Ask Neil “why don’t players just dunk every shot then?”
Make dunks worth 3 points and you got a league or maybe if you dunk on another man it’s 3.. wide open dunks are still 2 or something like that.. it would bring some wild excitement to the game and the 3 isn’t quite as important anymore.. idk but might be cool
I like how I sided with Neil then the counter point got me nodding to Cam, I’m a simpleton
This guy is so fucking insufferable
Shut up nerd should be a sufficient argument
Wrong again Neil
Cam got em. Stopped him in his tracks.
most of the NBA is actually smarter than NDT
This guy fucking sucks. Every time I see him in an interview, he looks annoyed that anyone besides him gets to talk. Genuinely enjoys the smell of his own farts 💨
Good points both ways. Definitely just keep it at two points, dunks are entertaining.
Tyson thought he was cooking.. there wasn’t even smoke.
Dont agree with NDT, but if you gonna make this argument you gotta say layups are 1 point too. Make another half circle where the 2 pointer starts similar to 3s. Still lame
Neil DeGrasse Tyson is a known stupid person’s smart person
Tyson is an idiot on all things outside of astronomy and physics.
Stick to Physics NGT.
You’re outta your element Donny!
Am I the only one who thinks that dunks should be worth 3 and 3’s should be worth 1?
BRING BACK DUNKS!!!