[Lowlight] Keaton Wagler gets clamped up immediately after tip-off
Why didn’t he dribble
klay thompson strat
Watch it again. He takes one dribble, almost loses it, then picks it up. Couldn’t dribble it again.
That wasn’t a dribble. That was a strip.
Looks like defender touched it and he lost control. He could have dribbled again
Probably because he was being hugged and expected a whistle. Terrible reffing but it’s summer league for them too
It’s definitely a clear foul. He has both arms around him. Lol. People love to shit on rookies though, so everyone is going to pretend Wagler sucks.
(And yes, I realize r/NBA is just going to respond to my flair and make an SGA joke. Lol)
You can’t just give up on dribbling the basketball anytime there’s an uncall foul lmao
If Wagler had tried to advance the ball, the contact probably would have impeded him, and he would get the whistle more often than not. But he didn’t do that. He uselessly pivoted and took one weak dribble in place. That’s just not getting called at high levels of basketball. Not even in Summer League.
Look. A rough play or a bad start doesn’t mean he sucks. But burying your head in the sand and acting like this is just a missed call is also really silly. You see way more uncalled contact than this multiple times in every NBA game.
“Acting like this is just a missed call.”
I mean it is absolutely a missed call.
Burying his head? It was his only turnover of the game?
It’s getting called in the nba when you hug a player to get the ball they’re shielding you from with their body. It gets called all the time.
Soft lol he was getting bodied and clamped
nah you guys would lose your minds if okc was doing this to luka or some shit lol
People DO lose their mind when OKC and Caruso do this shit lol
He forgot how
Summer league is a terrible way of telling whos actually gonna be good in the league due to level of competition.
But for that same reason its great for evaulating whos going to struggle early on.
Maybe its just a bad month, maybe hes come in rusty.
But him struggling this much against rosters mostly composed of g leaguers, struggling 2/3rd years and guys who wont be on any nba or g league roster in a month is reallly concerning.
Tbf wasn’t Trae Young absolute ass in summer league and the proceeded to drop 29⁄9 in year 2?
Not saying Wagler is Trae obviously but I don’t think performing badly in summer league is a death sentence
Missing shots isn’t really an indicator of not being able to play. Lots of good players had bad shooting nights. This is far from that.
I didn’t actually watch Trae in summer league I just know he was putrid and people were freaking out over it
The narrative about him was that he was a wannabe Curry, known for taking bad shots and being an inefficient scorer. He had a rough 4 for 20 debut. He then averaged 17 and 7 across his 4 summer league games shooting 38.7% from 3 on high volume lol. He was fine. People just didn’t like him for the same reasons people don’t love him today. They didn’t like his play style. And that’s totally fine and valid. I’m just trying to highlight the differences in the situations.
That narrative he is like curry is still alive people in the wizards sub are calling a career 35% 3pt shooter an elite outside shooter
I don’t know that that’s the same narrative, but obviously there is talent there and there are also questions there. The general idea is he was never the next Curry nor was he just a bust.
Seems like youre only counting the second half of his summer league games. In total, he averaged 15 and 6, on 4 turnovers a game. Youre omitting his first three games where he had a fck load of turnovers while shooting less than 15% from three and less than 25% from the floor.
I just looked up the Hawks summer league stats for that year, there was no counting or not counting on my part.
Those statistics do not include the 3 games the Hawks played in Utah before going to Vegas.
That’s fine. I sincerely apologize for not knowing about the games the Hawks played outside of Vegas in 2018 when I looked up those stats lol
udk shi
Tbf Trae Young is an undersized guard who needs a high volume and usage to justify why he’s out there. Guards like that usually struggle their first year or few.
No it’s not lol he had stretches where he looked really good. He’ll be fine once he gets a bit stronger
Same I feel like I’m watching another game when it comes to Wagler. When I see Wagler I’m reminded of DLO. Not athletic, kinda soft. But talented. DLO could’ve been really good if he had the right work ethic and mentality. IDK anything about Wagler so I’m not gonna pretend like I know if he’s gonna end up a bust or not. But people throw around those predictions far too confidently
In fairness, Trae did struggle at the beginning of his rookie year. However, when he finally started to get used to the increased physicality and speed of the NBA, the second half of his rookie year was way better and led to his explosive 2nd year.
Wagner might struggle early on, but also might have that same explosive improvement once he gets used to the increased physicality and speed.
I thing Wagler will take longer than that, at least as an on ball player.
Trae had a tighter handle and a nice first step. Wagler has a sufficiently good handle, but not a great one + he requires a screen to get separation.
The second LAC made Wagler play as a SG to start the second half, the game opened up a lot. It also opened up against the Jazz when he was able to actually get separation off screens.
Those signs point to him being more of a secondary playmaker until he is able to create more advantages on ball by himself. And Tbf, that’s not a bad thing. He has a lot of skills you want as a connective SG.
Also they do have too Garland so it’s not like he needs to play lots of point right away. Being that connected shooting guard might be the best way for him to develop, similar to what SGA did when he started.
Not comparing the two at all, just pointing to a player that used to be a shooting guard and grew into more of a point guard later on in his career.
Agreed.
IMO, Garland is the ideal PG to put him beside (at least offensively) because he’s a good passer and shooter who has a ton of off ball juice too.
The bigger concern I have is that LAC’s front court is putrid, and I don’t think they have the guys (at least until Yanic shows more) to make Wagler’s life easier. Our PFs are basically Rui/DJJ and maybe Ingram… so basically a bunch of wings playing up in size. Then our Cs are BroLo (washed), Ijax(undersized), and Yanic.
I saw some trade ideas of BI for Sabonis, and I liked that idea largely for Wagler’s development. We aren’t going to be good, so I’d at least like to set Wagler up for development success.
Trae struggled to hit shots. The playmaking was still elite during summer league.
The craziest example is Tim Duncan was terrible in summer league and then was All-NBA first team, 2nd team All-Defense and 5th in MVP voting as a rookie.
I think Trae is one of those big time outliers.
There aren’t many players that have Trae like outcomes
Trae wasn’t good at the start too then got going later in his rookie year
I’m not sure saying “It’s not that bad. He could become Trae Young.” is really a vote of confidence
Lol what? Making an all-nba team is an amazing outcome for the 5th pick historically, I think clipper fans would be stoked with that
It’s concerning, but I also don’t think it’s a great gauge of a guy who was basically sold as someone who struggled to gain separation without good teammates.
Nothing is easy for him on offense, because nobody is giving him the support that he basically relies on to play his game. Nobody can set screens for him, he very rarely gets the passed the ball when he his wide open for a kick out, he constantly is sent the ball back late in the shot clock, and everyone on his squad is just looking to get their own buckets to get one of LAC’s 2-way contracts.
I also think LAC is just force feeding him on ball minutes, when it’s pretty clear that until he gets stronger/quicker, he should be a secondary creator. But this goes back to issue #1, where it’s hard to be a secondary creator when the other creators like Pedulla are playing like Cam Thomas.
His teamates could’ve been Magic, LeBron, Mike, and Kareem and it wouldn’t help him on this play
Yes, because his teammates can’t literally blow the whistle to call what were 2 obvious fouls lol
I don’t see two obvious ones, there’s only the wrap in the beginning, everything else was just physical play.
When the ball gets lose, he grabs his arm and holds it back to get the advantage on the ball.
He’ll be fine. Just needs to hit the weights
man i remember pat bev went stupid hard on lonzo ball the first game because he said he saw him struggle in summer league. it was pretty entertaining
I think you can’t use stats or numbers for summer league but you can use the eye test. If you look slow and unathletic and can’t drive past even slow defenders, it’s a big red flag.
Summer league isn’t a good indicator of anything.
Are you stupid?
Does he know he’s allowed to dribble?
He did but he picked that dribble back up without even lifting his pivot foot
It’s literally the only turnover he had. He went 16-6-4 with a single turnover in 29 minutes, he’s fine. Per36 was 20-7-5…
BUST
His defense looked horrible though.
6-15 to get 16 points
This is going to get called as a foul in the NBA. Slowed down replay showed that he’s obviously reaching and also grabs his arm. It’s clear the scouting report on Wagler is to play him physically, and it’s clearly to the point of just fouling him. Like freeze frame it at :04 seconds and :07 seconds and Manon is holding him.
MITWagler origin story
I laughed
Yeah from the very first second of the very first summer league game, it was clear the Kings’ gameplan was to be physical with Wagler as much as possible*. It worked, and other teams have replicated that to varying degrees of success. No one on the summer league Clippers has been able to set a decent screen to get defenders off him, either.
*anyone who has watched any Kings games this summer league should be able to tell that their entire defensive gameplan is the “they can’t call every foul” idea that people imagine OKC follows.
Everyone should be as physical with Wagler as possible, because it disrupts his flow and game. It’s a good strategy, and this LAC SL team literally has 0 other playmakers outside of their rookie PF Baba Miller who is a connective passer!
But real NBA teams aren’t going to risk fouls every play starting from tip off like this, and again, this is just an obvious foul that didn’t get called in part because these SL refs are absolute dog shit lol.
So youre saying we let him go to camp with fucking Kris Dunn and we will be fine?
Somebody could be getting themselves noticed by setting excellent screens for him. There’s a lot of eyes on him right now.
Basically every single person on our SL team outside of guys already with contracts (Baba, Kobe, and Wagler) showed that they don’t deserve any real contracts from LAC.
Pedulla might have talent, but this entire summer league he’s played like Cam Thomas. Omier has shown that he’s not good at anything, and getting into that scuffle after his flagrant wasn’t a great look either (though that’s not a big deal).
Yeah. I saw the same thing in the AJ highlights. People were mocking him for foul baiting but he was getting bum rushed by guys trying to make a name for themselves.
Yep. It’s just another example of how SL is just glorified pickup. You can tell the refs are absolutely horrible, because they’re even worse with their inconsistency. There are times where they allow grabbing, shoving, etc. and then they’ll flip a switch and whistle soft touches.
But the defensive style that is afforded to players when they 1) Are fighting for a roster spot and 2) Have 10 fouls = undisciplined physicality. There’s a reason why guys like Pat Bev frequently picked up early/dumb fouls, and it’s because they try to play this way and end up committing dumb fouls.
dog you don’t need to defend him like this, you can just say it’s summer league and call it a day
I mean, I’m not even fully defending him. He’s shown all the concerning weaknesses that were scouted about him (lack of athleticism/strength) with some flashes of the good (good reads, smoothness, change of pace, etc).
But the point is that calling this “clamped up” is dumb. This is exactly the type of “defense” that people hate on the Thunder for.
I agree with you. They get 10 fouls in Summer League too.
I appreciated them actually explaining their thoughts.
You could also not post useless comments dog
FWIW the guy guarding him, Chris Mañon was one of the best defenders in the G league last season. Still, Wagler needs to be better and probably at least try and dribble
If I’m not mistaken he was the best defender in the g league last year.
Jamarion Sharp won G-league DPOY last season
Rewards don’t necessarily define who was the best, even then Manon finished 2nd.
If he can get a 3pt shot he could be a lite version of Marcus Smart. Hope JJ gives him some reps.
I’m not saying it can’t happen, but this applies to SO many defensive specialists.
It absolutely does which is why I have no expectations for it. But because we need more wing defense, I’m just more hopeful for it. I know you can’t really judge off of SL but I’d be amazed if he made more than 35% for us.
35% from deep would be huge.
Kris Dunn basically
Shoutout Mañon. He’s a dawg
I was trying to figure out who that was! That defense was 😮💨
On him like white on rice
I’m here to tell you Jalen Brunson isn’t harassing Keaton Wagler at tip off. Dudes will show flaws but dudes are also playing for their lives in Summer League.
I’m here to tell you Jalen Brunson is not as bad of a defender as everyone talks about and his effort will have Wagler in certified clamps
Jalen Brunson isnt gonna dry hump Wagler like this
I saw him to it to multiple people are are significantly better, in the playoffs no less
Is he really that bad? Everything I’ve seen about this guy has been negative
Guys its summer league
Sir, ma’am or friend of unspecified gender,
We are here to laugh at the Clippers. Laugh and clap!
Amen. They deserve him to bust after trying to cheat
Thank you for being real about it at least
If Silver won’t punish them, then Wagler being a bust is the silver medal for that outcome
No… the better way to punish them is to trade Wagler away for nothing and watch him become an all NBA type of player.
pfffttt when has that ever happened in the history of our franchise
We said that about Dalton Knecht and Jalen Hood Schifino. SL isn’t everything but looking slow and inn effective in SL is not a great sign.
Really as bad as what? A botched tip off with a shitty screen in summer league?
What do you mean bad, what has he done wrong here. He got fouled 5 times and his teammates stood 5 miles away and watched?
Clippers in the last decade and change have made an enemy of three of the biggest fanbases on Reddit. Lakers, Warriors, and Raptors who are 1st, 2nd, and 5th in terms of sub count among nba subreddits. Mavs are 4th on that list and we’ve played them in the first round 3 times in a 5 year span, and OKC are 6th and you might have heard of a trade we made with them a while back.
Add to that the Kawhi Aspiration cheating, us being eternal chokers, vastly outnumbered fanbase in our own city, and the easiest target for ridicule, and that all adds up to most of this sub wanting to shit on anything Clipper related.
I’ve been on Reddit on various accounts for 15 years, and it’s been that way around here since the first 3-1 choke against Houston.
Honestly I’d add that the national media strokes the Clippers incessantly too. They can do almost no wrong in the eyes of most of the ESPN no it alls. That is what drives me the most nuts.
Really, a lakers fan thinks that? They might be a little stroked but you guys are basically cats
Not even close, fans are just mad at the Clippers for aspiration and projecting that wish of failure onto a literal teenager 🤣🤣
There were concerns about his not being strong. True to form, most of the bad things about him from summer league involve his being pushed around.
He has good vision, he’s a good passer, he can shoot. He needs to get stronger though.
His efficiency and dealing with physicality has been pretty god awful so far, but it is Summer League. I only posted this lowlight because it was especially egregious
Egregious is posting a lowlight, calling him a bust, when in the entire game… this was his only turnover and it’s very clearly a foul lmao
It’s kind of weird how much hate this guy gets both from fans and seemingly some of the players.
Like so much of the comments about him are just people taking victory laps after a mediocre game that they knew he was a bust, and even players like Carr and saying shit like, “I’m here to play basketball, not be a pretty boy.”
As someone who watched quite a bit of him at Illinois, I don’t remember him getting much hate. Did I miss something?
That’s a crazy thing to say. Maybe he should have gone higher but it’s not like only Wagler went ahead of him
He didn’t take the typical path expected of most of these players, especially for a 5th pick, and I’d bet a lot of them resent him for it
He’s a Clipper, who are one of the easiest franchises to both mock and hate. Kinda like the current Cleveland Browns. Never win, always choke, little brother, no fans, accused of cheating, all that jazz.
Also, he’s light skinned. I am too. If you aren’t in the black community, you might not be aware that there’s a heavy distaste for lightskin people in the black community, going back to slavery. You got a little taste of it in the Kendrick vs Drake beef. But basically it goes “if you’re lightskin, you’re soft. If you’re lightskin, you’re feminine. You’re a pretty boy, you’re not hard. Basically you a bitch”
So in any sport that is predominantly black, if you’re light skinned, you’re gonna get some trash talk about it. If you’re light skinned and slight of frame, or otherwise look like a pretty boy, you’re gonna get even more shit about it.
Keaton, the poor kid, fits real neatly into all of it. Hence the inordinate amount of hate
That so dumb esp since, yknow, Steph Curry.
Hell, JALEN M.F. BRUNSON.
who prpved they belong?
I’ve realized it’s about aspiration and not him. I’ve reached enlightenment 🧘🏾♂️
I don’t think Cam Carr gives a shit about Aspiration, and was still hating on him lol
Oh the pretty boy shit, I thought he was talking about himself lol.
he’s mostly just less developed compared to his peers. not even an age thing, but moreso in mindset/establishing his playstyle
the only criticism i have about his actual game is his low shot release. he’s gotten blocked quite a bit because of it
but his passing instincts are really good. his handle is good enough. he showed a couple decel steps yesterday that really suggest he’ll convert in the paint better as his frame develops. he’s been packing on pounds reportedly over this last year. and swished some really difficult midrange looks yesterday. when his jumper goes in it looks really smooth. and he can get it off on fadeaways and stepbacks.
ive seen bits and flashes that convince me of what he can end up becoming. i understand the pick for that reason, but of course it invites comparison to his better-developed peers.
True but its reddit so a lot of these guys sayin stuff think Trae Young or Jah Morant are good. Consider the source
It’s not that bad. It’s a combination of him being a #5 pick in a loaded draft with a lot of rookies above and below him in the draft order really looking great in the summer league.
But a lot of his issues in the summer league are known before the draft.
i have no idea why he went over flemings, acuff, or even mbj.
He’s outplayed Flemings so far, and acuff next to Darius garland is a shit show. MBJ looks great though
mbj is fine. he’s no acuff
I don’t think acuff is that good personally. Most obvious 20ppg-20 wins a season player I’ve ever seen in my life 🤣
cam thomas is my favorite player of all time im sorry
Oh you might love acuff then 🤣
MBJ has looked like the 2nd best guard of this draft in SL.
Good defensive motor with some nice defensive playmaking, nice passing (though needs to clean it up as expected), and really good efficiency.
Acuff’s defense has been maybe slightly better than advertised, which isn’t good. He’s been insanely inefficient, and while he’s getting to his spots, part of the issue is that his spots are moderately contested shots around the basket and mid ranger jumpers.
IMO MBJ is the only one of the 3 who is exceeding the initial scouting reports, whereas Wagler/Acuff are both showing that the concerns around their game were very, very real.
that’s it, I’ve seen enough
I feel like he’s going to get picked on a lot. He’s gonna need Curry intangibles
This is what summer league is for. 90% of this thread didn’t watch the game. He’s going to be fine.
Dude is 2 years away from being 2 years away 🤷🏽♂️
Id imagine this is what you would look like if you started the college season on no one’s radar, and then you jump to the #5 prospect. He probably gonna need time.
Should have wagled his way out of there
There are 47 fouls on this play.
Is this AI?
I’d take him over Yang Hansen
Wild how his teammate helps by positioning himself:
A) Nearly on top of him.
B) Directly with the defender between them.
I know he was trying to screen, but his buddy was locked up.
Why didn’t he just pass it. Guy right next to him was wide open
lol you definitely haven’t been watching clippers summer league. That guy (omier) has been arguably the worst player in all of summer league. He’s a big without literally every skill. You aren’t giving him the ball at half court, what?
Fair enough. I haven’t been watching them lol
It’s giving Jamal Murray
I’ve never seen an 8 second violation off a tip before.
He got fouled and his teammate is actually hindering his movement.
Clippers karma
2 years away from being 2 years away
This dude gon be ass in the league
THAT was a FOUL! They’re letting them get away with a LOT! I believe the players are playing MUCH more aggressively because they have DAMN FOULS!
Damn even Bronny don’t get clamped up like that in that spot
Noa Essengue level bum
Gonna be a long ten years for clippers fans.
We lived through Sterling and multiple 3-1 collapses, This shit is light work
It’s been a long lifetime for any clippers fan lmao
Did they call backcourt violation? It gets cut right when the whistle sounds.
You mean 8 secs?
Yeah mb
He has not looked very good in Summer League, but we’ll see. Definitely needs to get his BBIQ up.
Yikes
If there are any busts in the top 10, it’s wavering wagler.
He’s played 3 summer league games and he wasn’t even bad in two of them
Lol he’s a freshman that went on a 6 month scoring binge that elevated his draft stock by about 40 spots and hasn’t shown anything since then. Its a tale as old as time, bust
What?
“6 month scoring binge and hasn’t show anything since then.”
In other words, he scored like crazy throughout his entire college career and hasn’t shown anything in 3 SL games lmao.
Lol his entire college career is one season as a freshman, it’s almost like you haven’t seen this movie before, I’ll won’t spoil it for you.
No my criticism is that you downplay a full college season and then use 3 SL league games as evidence he’s cooked.
I didn’t use 3 summer league games as evidence, that’s just your interpretation of what I said. If you can’t read then just sit back and watch the movie play out.
Talking about busts in July. Seek help
Last obvious nba bust 😂
He’ll be manning an IHOP in Butte in three years