Player	MVP	Title	Finals MVP
Michael Jordan	5	6	6
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar	6	6	2
LeBron James	4	4	4
Magic Johnson	3	5	3
Tim Duncan	2	5	3
Larry Bird	3	3	2
Shaquille O’Neal	1	4	3
Stephen Curry	2	4	1
Kobe Bryant	1	5	2

Player	MVP	Title	Finals MVP
-1 Finals MVP
Bill Russell	5	11
Bob Cousy	1	6
-1 Title
Wilt Chamberlain	4	2	1
Willis Reed	1	2	2
Hakeem Olajuwon	1	2	2
Kevin Durant	1	2	2
Bill Walton	1	2	1
-1 MVP
John Havlicek		8	1
Tony Parker		4	1
Andre Iguodala		4	1
Dennis Johnson		3	1
James Worthy		3	1
Dwyane Wade		3	1

SanHoseA

1157 | 6 hours ago

Russell would have had at least 8 finals MVPs so it’s silly to exclude him from this list and put him in the one award away category.

EmperorXerro | Bucks

761 | 6 hours ago

The fact the award is named after him gives him the lifetime pass

SometimesILieToo

365 | 4 hours ago

“Why was Bill Russell excluded?”

“Oh he never earned the Bill Russell most valuable player award. What a loser!”

cheerioo | Warriors

31 | 3 hours ago

This is the Bill Russell lifetime achievement list so he’s included by default as well

GrizzlyP33

189 | 5 hours ago

Look if he hasn’t won a Bill Russell trophy that’s clearly on him.

MiltTheStilt

52 | 5 hours ago

Bill Russell didn’t win a Bill Russell trophy. Can we finally stop talking about this scrub when it comes to GOAT conversations?

GrizzlyP33

26 | 4 hours ago

Imagine winning 11 titles and not getting a single Bill Russell accolade even though your name is Bill Russell.

maybeAturtle

64 | 6 hours ago

He should definitely be grandfathered in here.

Superplex123 | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

OP already addressed what you said.

Bill because Finals MVP weren’t a thing when he was winning his championships. The award was later named after him. There is definitely a place for him in basketball heaven. I guess this measurement is more applicable for modern basketball, where the 3-point line already exists.

SanHoseA

26 | 3 hours ago

OP is a confused soul and posted a lot of conflicting information. They said it’s more applicable to modern basketball, but then made a list of players who were an award away that included several players not from the modern era including Russell. They also said Russell “probably” would have won at least one, which is ridiculous. There’s no probably here. Russell absolutely would have won several (at least 8) which is why they named the award after him. It’s a silly debate because OP can’t seem to decide what argument they are actually making.

AutographedSnorkel | Rockets

423 | 6 hours ago

I mean, the Finals MVP award was named after Bill Russell, so I think he gets a pass

BoredomHeights | Warriors

9 | an hour ago

First thing I thought was “Russell should definitely be on this list”. But OP did a good job of explaining that yes, he also thinks Russell should be on the list and basically is. So I think it’s a fair explanation/point. It’s a good standard to hold future players to.

I think a lot of people commenting that Russell’s missing didn’t actually read the post.

SEAinLA | Supersonics

287 | 6 hours ago

Any artificial rubric that makes Kobe a top 10 player and omits Russell and Wilt is not a good measurement.

mr_seggs | Jordan

184 | 6 hours ago

I think that the guy who the FMVP is named after should get a pass for missing an FMVP lol

SilverSurfer92 | Bulls

49 | 6 hours ago

He won 11 rings with 8 straight. I wouldn’t be surprised if after a point, the FMVP trophy for that team would literally be a participation trophy. “All the starters got one, time to give it to the bench!”

mr_seggs | Jordan

7 | 5 hours ago

Obviously it’s unimaginable for a team to win eight straight in this era, but I wonder if FMVP fatigue could be a real phenomenon like MVP fatigue. Like, if the Spurs miraculously won five in a row, would they just do the obvious thing and give Wemby all five or would Harper or Castle steal like year 4 if Wemby’s slightly below average?

I suspect that fatigue wouldn’t really set in and they’d just keep giving it to Wemby barring any bad performances. But like, after eight? After eleven? Maybe they’d get sick of it. Obviously too much of an absurd hypothetical to seriously consider–it’s like asking how many straight MVPs a guy could win averaging a 50-point triple-double with great defense every year.

Lusty-Jove | Heat

1 | 11 minutes ago

Didn’t stop them with MJ or Magic

SerenadeSwift | Supersonics

1 | 4 minutes ago

I’d imagine the league would be in a pretty terrible place if a team won 8 straight titles in today’s NBA. By the 5th straight championship I bet playoff viewership would have absolutely plummeted. I can’t imagine what year 8 would look like lol

Jon_ofAllTrades

26 | 6 hours ago

I think it’s okay in the sense that it’s purely limited to the “modern” game.

We should definitely respect the history of this league pre-3 point line and ABA merger, but can also acknowledge that it’s a very different game and that players in those eras literally can’t be compared.

str8rippinfartz | Celtics

13 | 4 hours ago

It’s ok to limit to the modern game, but then don’t also list those pre-modern players as being an award away if they’re out of scope lol

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

20 | 6 hours ago

What’s wrong with Kobe being top 10?

Colangelo_Ball | 76ers

12 | 4 hours ago

If you can’t remember the time before Kobe, then you can’t assess Kobe. Plenty of people who came before see him as a volume shooting Jordan cosplayer.

m0booty

7 | 2 hours ago

It’s usually the younger ones that underrate Kobe. People and players who watched him play all mostly have him in their top 10. And if you look at it as anyone from 4-12 interchangeable, which makes the most sense, you’d be completely wrong to not have him there.

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

-21 | 4 hours ago

I do agree with this. That is why since 1996, only LeBron is a better player than Kobe.

And yes, the copycat volume shooter lucked out on 5 titles. Imagine if he played the way you guys wanted him to. He could’ve been the goat. Such a shame.

crichmond77

3 | 4 hours ago

Steph is easily better than Kobe. Shaq probably is too. I’d put Duncan about on par as well

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

-8 | 4 hours ago

You won’t do it but I’m dying to hear why you put Curry, Duncan, and Shaq over Kobe.

Not that they don’t have an argument, I’m just trying to see if you’ll trip over yourself over the double standard.

Ferbtastic | Heat

4 | 4 hours ago

Not who you replied to but Steph changed the game. He shattered records and changed the way the entire nba plays. He was the best player on 4 title teams.

Duncan was the best player on 4 finals teams (I would say admiral for the first) and was a top 5 defensive player for like 10+ years. He wasn’t sexy but dude was consistent.

Shaq was the best player on 2 titles and tied as best for 2 (Wade had the better playoffs but shaq had the better regular season and took INT be double teams).

What is your reasoning for having Kobe better than those 3?

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

6 | 2 hours ago

As much titles as Duncan, more than Shaq and Curry, more accomplishments than Shaq after breaking up despite spending 3 years of his prime with G-Leagues instead of a top 3 player in Durant and consistent teammates in Klay (top 3 shooter all time) one of the greatest defenders of all time in Draymond, allowing Curry to not be as important on the defensive side.

After 2010 he suffered injuries so whatever we can cut his career to that point. You can only play whos on front of you but he still holds the record for most wins against 50 win teams. Beat Duncan in the playoffs with and without Shaq.

Went to 7 Finals in 10 years. 3 in a row with Shaq, 3 in a row without Shaq.

Played through countless injuries that nobody ever gives him credit for. Changed the way he had to shoot during a championship run because of a broken finger.

One of the greatest heat check player of all time. Most assists by a #2 (longevity stats but you guys do it for LeBron anyway).

He’s the reason Carmelo’s Denver tenure is an afterthought. He’s the reason Duncan isn’t higher than he already is, and also the reason Nash couldn’t make the Finals (also fuck Robert Horry and the suspensions).

You value defense for Duncan against Kobe but that doesn’t exist for Kobe against Curry.

During Kobe and Pau’s tenure, he accomplished just as much as the Heatles and the Hamptons 5. Tell me who had more help and overall against tougher competitions.

Ferbtastic | Heat

5 | 2 hours ago

Shaq dragged a Orlando team to the finals. You cannot just say “Kobe was better after the breakup” and forget about all the years before they teamed up.

You also talk about Kobe’s injuries and forget curry had injuries early and overcame them. Shaq was beat up by the time he joined the lakers.

Shaq and curry changed the game. Kobe was just the closest we have seen to Jordan. Which is a hell of a thing. But he simply did not change the game the way those two did. I think Duncan and Kobe had as similar of careers as two players that play different positions and have different attitudes can have. So I go back and forth on those 2.

Duncan shaq curry and Kobe are close enough that any order is defendable.

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

2 | an hour ago

You’re correct. I cannot say he was better after the breakup without mentioning his Orlando tenure with Penny.

He was better even with his Orlando tenure included. Curry and Kobe both overcame injuries, correct. Changing the game is nice and all but it’s not like either of them broke the game.

Curry put the 3 pointer on notice sure but they were trending that way eventually. Kobe didn’t need to change the game to be successful. He just chucked his way to success. So for all his criticism that he was inefficient and ball hogging, he lucked his way to 5 titles which is more than the 2 guys that changed the game. Went to more finals too.

But I do agree with you that these 4 are close enough that it doesn’t really matter what order you put them in except for preferences. They’re all around the same level of impact this game has seen and would be a disrespect to not have them around each other.

cheerioo | Warriors

2 | 3 hours ago

Better shoe, branding, and nickname /s.

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

-4 | 3 hours ago

Thank you for proving me right.

austinkawada

5 | 3 hours ago

Kobe hasn’t been defended this hard in Colorado since he raped someone there

Ferbtastic | Heat

-4 | 4 hours ago

I’d say Steph, Duncan are better. Joker is likely better as well.

enad58 | MIL

-6 | 3 hours ago

Because:

Michael Jordan
LeBron James
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Bill Russell
Wilt Chamberlain
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Nikola Jokic
Arvydas Sabonis
Steph Curry
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O’Neal

All played basketball too.

maltrab | NBA

7 | 3 hours ago

1, maybe 2 of these names might not quite fit in here. Also left off KG and Hakeem

enad58 | MIL

4 | 3 hours ago

Yeah, I was waiting for somebody to call out the big Lithuanian. And I did miss Hakeem, which further solidifies the point.

maltrab | NBA

5 | 3 hours ago

I wish we could have seen him in the NBA before the foot injuries

enad58 | MIL

2 | 2 hours ago

If you ever got a chance to see him play in his prime, you know why he’s on the list. Is it a bit hyperbolic, probably. But is he a better basketball player than Kobe Bryant? Yes. There is no question in my mind that he is.

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

2 | 2 hours ago

Do you value efficiency? Because it’s clearly not defense having 3 turnstiles on there.

enad58 | MIL

-1 | an hour ago

Jokic, Curry, and who else are you referring to?

I value the complete game of basketball. Steph Curry is the greatest shooter to have ever lived. His offensive game is as complete as possible. He is too small to be effective defensively, but his offensive prowess completely makes up for that.

Jokic is the best basketball mind of this generation, and is a 7 foot Steve Nash.

I don’t know who else you’re referring to on the list, but I can’t find any other obviously limited defensive players.

Basis_Inside

-43 | 6 hours ago

Inefficient shot chucker that gets bailed out by marketing. If he toned down the mamba stuff they win in 04 and he’s in the top 10 forever. I personally love Kobe and I’m very critical of past eras but Hakeem, and Russell both Deserve the nod over Kobe. I’ll give you Kobe over Russell cuz he played lawyers and firemen but that’s still just 10

Zephrok | Lakers

25 | 6 hours ago

Kobe was an efficient scorer. Had a positive ts+ on the toughest shots in league history.

Anyone saying Kobe was inefficient pre injury does not know ball.

Basis_Inside

-15 | 6 hours ago

That doesn’t mean you should always take the toughest shots in league history. Go watch 2004 he shot himself out of a chip bro. For someone that is hailed as one of the most skilled ever, his process for picking shots that series was clearly ego-driven and bad basketball. No one in the top 10 except curry in 2016 has shot themselves out of a chip

MstrNixx | Raptors

9 | 5 hours ago

I mean, Kobe taking those shots also won them 5 Chips.

Relative to his Era Kobe is an efficient scorer, in spite of the difficulty of his shots

OstrichRacer2021

-9 | 5 hours ago

The first three were won by Shaq lol

MstrNixx | Raptors

2 | 5 hours ago

Incorrect and not the point.

2000 was a bit of a carry job though.

CantFindMyWallet

-4 | 4 hours ago

You’re right but you’ll never win this argument. The fact that Shaq was - by far - the most valuable player on those teams doesn’t seem to interest Kobe stans.

OstrichRacer2021

1 | 3 hours ago

The downvotes for pointing out the obvious are wild 😂

OstrichRacer2021

-23 | 6 hours ago

Dude, taking tough shots, even if you have a positive TS+ (or whatever the fuck metric)isn’t efficiency whatsoever. He could have passed the ball to an open teammate for an layup, or open corner 3, if he wanted to be efficient. Chucking up a difficult shot, even if you are the best at difficult shots, is like the antithesis of efficiency.

“Anyone saying Kobe was inefficient pre injury does not know ball.” I don’t think you know what the word efficiency means, and you definitely don’t know ball.

Basis_Inside

-8 | 5 hours ago

The Kobe fanboys are strong with this post

Sufficient_Food_3638

19 | 6 hours ago

This is such a tired talking point lol

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

13 | 6 hours ago

I mean what do you value in a player? Is it the stats, the winning, the regular season, the playoffs?

Basis_Inside

-4 | 6 hours ago

Everything matters, but this is the crème of the crop. Why are we acting like Kobe being top ¹⁰⁄₁₁ best players to ever hold a basketball is a bad thing? Hakeem and Russell* were perennial dpoy and mvp candidates.

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

12 | 5 hours ago

Yeah I think when you compare accolades to eye test, Kobe competes with the crème of the crop.

When you factor in context, he’s even better. He was competing with many people’s goats in LeBron, a top 10 player in Duncan, and accomplished more than Shaq after their breakup.

3 years of his prime spent with starters like Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, Chris Mihm.

Beaten the most 50 win teams in the playoffs. His 3 straight finals with his best player Pau Gasol, who was no scrub but let’s be honest, he wouldn’t be viewed this highly without playing with Bryant.

Proven defender when he’s not shouldering all the offensive burden. One of the greatest tough shot maker in the history of the game.

So yeah, there’s nothing wrong with peoples opinion having Kobe around ¹⁰⁄₁₁. There’s also nothing wrong with people having him higher too.

Basis_Inside

-5 | 4 hours ago

The only people he has a potential nod over are Russell and wilt, maybe Hakeem. And they absolutely have arguments to be over him as well. Everything you just said is true but is also what people say to sneak him in the top 5-3. 7-11 is cool but panties get wet when Kobe is mentioned idk why. It’s like we can admit that any player took bad shots in a particular series or year except for Kobe cuz he makes it look so cool. In 2004 finals, less than 10% of Kobe’s shots involved Shaq in any way, the guy tha had 35 and 13-16 the first game because they sold out to Kobe’s ego and let diesel play 1on1. I feel like no other guard ever is letting that happen lol

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

8 | 4 hours ago

What are you on about? 2004 was a huge blemish in Kobe’s career that always gets mentioned.

It’s the same thing people bring up with LeBron in 2011 but both those series do not erase the success and accomplishments prior and after they’ve achieved.

All I’m saying is if people have Shaq, and Duncan in their top 10, you gotta have Kobe too.

Green_Pumpkin | Warriors

9 | 5 hours ago

he’s just as efficient as tim duncan lol

Basis_Inside

0 | 5 hours ago

And Tim Duncan is several tiers above on the other side of the ball. Also passes to his wide open teammates in the finals.

whatssenguntoagoblin | Alperen Sengun

7 | 4 hours ago

Kobe almost has double the assists Duncan has in the finals lmao

Basis_Inside

-4 | 4 hours ago

Plays the system vs ball hog

yetanotheracct_sp

-7 | 5 hours ago

Unfortunately for him, Tim Duncan is a much much better defender.

RUDE-GULLIT | Knicks

3 | 6 hours ago

Found the idiot

Ferbtastic | Heat

1 | 4 hours ago

Honestly I think to be in the pantheon you should have multiple mvp, multiple rings, and multiple finals mvp (not counting Russ and wilt as they predate the award)

RemarkableTpt | Lakers

-3 | 2 hours ago

This is just bullshit. You’re mad that it’s 2026 and most nba fans don’t give a fuck about the nba before the 80s? Come on.

SEAinLA | Supersonics

1 | 2 hours ago

Seems like the only one mad here is you.

AgenYT0 | Heat

245 | 5 hours ago

Copied from a similar thread:

People are correctly pointing out Bill Russell should be included for common sense reasons. I have a more controversial addition.

Dr. J. 3 ABA MVPs, 1NBA MVP, 2 ABA playoff MVPs, 2ABA rings and 1 NBA ring. If his ABA accolades are diminished due to a lesser player pool so are his NBA peers. Which would mean 4 Kareem MVPs and 1 finals MVP are discounted. Which is ludicrous.

Edit: The losing Nuggets in the 76 ABA finals featured 3 hall of famers in or just before their primes.

He best Gilmore, McGinnis and Bobby Jones for his MVPs. All in the hall of fame.

⁷⁄₉ ABA playoff MVPs are in the hall of fame. ⁵⁄₇ if you subtract Julius Erving.

Token_Creative | Trail Blazers

40 | 4 hours ago

There’s a good documentary about the ABA on Prime that tells of a game between ABA and NBA all stars that got really close. There wasn’t much of a talent drop off between the two leagues.

nekoken04 | Supersonics

11 | 4 hours ago

I just watched this recently. It was an excellent documentary.

Halekduo

9 | 3 hours ago

What’s it called?

P1cWilliamSantiago | Warriors

4 | an hour ago

Soul Power The legend of the ABA

EmperorXerro | Bucks

28 | 4 hours ago

Dr. J was a better player than Kobe in my book

Juventus7shop | Pacers

9 | an hour ago

Completely agree, I have them rated about the same historically at #12 and 13. They’re actually a really fascinating comparison; by the time Erving hit his prime in the ABA, I think it’s fair to say the league was very close to being on par with the NBA, and if you add his accomplishments there to his NBA resume, he suddenly begins to stack up pretty favorably with Kobe.

MVPs: 4 for Erving, 1 for Kobe

Titles: 5 for Kobe (with 2 FMVP), 3 for Erving (with 2 Playoff MVPs, the ABA’s equivalent)

All-league 1st teams: 11 for Kobe, 9 for Erving

All-stars: 18 for Kobe, 16 for Erving

Scoring titles: 3 for Erving, 1 for Kobe

All-defense: 12 for Kobe, 1 for Erving

Out of all these metrics, it’s really only in terms of defense that Kobe clearly outperforms Erving, but that’s arguably offset by the fact that Erving won 4 MVPs in multiple leagues compared to Kobe’s 1, and they won the same amount of chips as #1 options.

Again, if you’re less bullish about the ABA than myself and want to discount a large part of Dr. J’s prime accordingly, that’s an argument that can be made, and sometimes I still feel like Bryant has the edge. At the same time, I think if you take a more nuanced approach to evaluating Erving’s career (particularly if you factor in how revolutionary/influential his style was), then it’s much less clear that Kobe necessarily clears him.

nekoken04 | Supersonics

16 | 3 hours ago

I don’t think that should be counted as controversial at all.

ElectricGhostMan

92 | 6 hours ago

I don’t hate this metric and appreciate the cut out for Bill Russell at least. I think Andre Iguodala should be further away from this kind of metric that includes Tony Parker at it’s lowest rungs.

GrizzlyP33

133 | 5 hours ago

I think “winning a regular season mvp” puts them very far away and that’s why it works.

You can have a surprise MVP for a 7 game series, but every regular season MVP is an elite player, and someone like Iggy I doubt ever got a single vote.

GregSays | Celtics

20 | 4 hours ago

Yeah whenever people do the “who is the worst MVP?” conversation the candidates are always guys who had a great season. There’s plenty I disagree with but no duds.

HOFredditor | Warriors

18 | 4 hours ago

TP9 was multiple all nba and multiple all star. He’s different from Iggy

rocpilehardasfuk | Warriors

8 | 5 hours ago

When I watch the 2015 finals I’m always thinking: “wow this Iggy guy certainly must be the FMVP Right?”

Thundergun1864 | Knicks

19 | 4 hours ago

Still the craziest thing I’ve ever seen, curry easily deserves 2 fmvp and the only one he won was maybe his worst case to win it

CommandersLog | GSW

13 | 4 hours ago

Worst case like someone else deserved it more than him in 22? Or that his performances in the other championship runs were better?

Thundergun1864 | Knicks

2 | 2 hours ago

Sort of both. In a vacuum neither though, 22 felt much more like a defensively won series than 15. 17 and 18 probably should’ve been split between him and kd due to the fact the cavs played the games with Curry in mind as the warriors most valuable player

rocpilehardasfuk | Warriors

7 | an hour ago

Huh? Wut?

I’ve never heard of this argument. Steph carried that ring wtf

rocpilehardasfuk | Warriors

5 | an hour ago

Wait we’re now doubting his 2022 FMVP? absolutely ludicrous take

pjtheMillwrong | Raptors

2 | 4 hours ago

Yeah weird they picked the 3rd best player in the series instead of the 2nd

rocpilehardasfuk | Warriors

3 | an hour ago

Iggy was the third best? Just say you didnt watch those finals.

Dray was clearly third best. Iggy was a tactical change that paid off. Kerr deserves credit.

TrulyNotABot | Grizzlies

79 | 6 hours ago

“No cherry picked stats”

Number of rings, mvps, and fmvps are all stats that you picked.

ZarathustraWakes

41 | 6 hours ago

Ya, changing the 1 FMVP requirement to 2 would’ve only gated Steph Curry.

Inspiration_Bear | Timberwolves

30 | 5 hours ago

And including it at all as a metric gated out Bill Russell who has a legitimate claim to GOAT

GrizzlyP33

8 | 5 hours ago

Are accolades stats? I think the point it’s not setting an arbitrary 30/9/7 or something. I don’t think mvp is a “cherry picked” stat by any means in this context.

Do you know what cherry picked means? Because none of these fit the bill.

TrulyNotABot | Grizzlies

5 | 3 hours ago

The accolades themselves are not a stat, however the number of accolades won is definitely a stat

DistributionOk4643

3 | 2 hours ago

Still not a great stat, as accolades themselves are subjective.

GrizzlyP33

-3 | 3 hours ago

That’s fair, but I still don’t think these are “cherry picked”. They seem quite logical and a fair barometer.

blackspidey2099 | Raptors

3 | 2 hours ago

I’d say an actual stat line is far less arbitrary than a subjective media voted award like MVP and FMVP

raymond_w | Lakers

-1 | 4 hours ago

You have no idea what the expression “cherry picked” means.

VLHACS | Celtics

0 | an hour ago

I think it’s because these are very encompassing stats that just says “how much winning does this player add”.

Cherry picked stats would be arbitrarily finding someone who more 3+ assists while shooting above 40% or something. Stats that doesn’t really say how much they’re contributing to winning

Lusty-Jove | Heat

1 | 8 minutes ago

Why three rings? Why not finals record? Why just one FMVP? Why no all-leagues?

There’s no objective standard metric for these sorts of questions

c0rd_sucks

55 | 6 hours ago

I understand the disagreements but it feels more like “what makes someone relevant to basketball history to normies” type thing.

Although, I think the obvious omission is, well when did the finals MVP become a thing.

TheOneWhosCensored | Celtics

9 | 5 hours ago

1969

Next-Supermarket9538 | Pacers

23 | 6 hours ago

Should increase the MVPs needed to 2 and waive the FMVP requirement for any player who won their last title before the award was granted. Would still be completely arbitrary but would make more sense.

Quirky_Average_2970

10 | 5 hours ago

It makes more sense to have 2 MVPs. If we are talking pantheon players they should have multiple of each award and been part of a dynasty.

mr_mope | 76ers

19 | 6 hours ago

No guys, my arbitrary rules make for the definitive assessment of all time rank.

garrethstathum | Clippers

4 | 4 hours ago

Fate of the universe on the line, i want IGUADALA

Dinobot2_ | Raptors

17 | 6 hours ago

And who exactly made this the “Standard” hmm?

RealPrinceJay |

9 | 6 hours ago

What a weird qualifier lol

SuperMeatStick1

7 | 4 hours ago

But it isn’t merely winning an MVP, Finals MVP, and championship. MVP is subjective for just the regular season. Finals MVP is subjective for just the finals series. Championships are team successes. How many times was the best basketball player in the NBA not given the MVP award? A lot.

roll_that | Knicks

5 | 6 hours ago

Now add DPOY and scoring title

michaelb5000

4 | 5 hours ago

It’s a pretty good list for a top 10 post merger, even if we can quibble about the order. These achievements drive the consensus narrative over time.

jacotuck9186

4 | 4 hours ago

Given the title of this post maybe a shortcut is “guys on a one name basis”

1998TimThomas | Bucks

3 | 6 hours ago

Wade could have won that 2009 MVP

Flymia | Heat

3 | 4 hours ago

He should have won that 2009 MVP.

WhyplerBronze | 76ers

2 | 5 hours ago

This is simply an arbitrary measure to get Steph’s name in the top ten.

prestoncollins | LAL

3 | 3 hours ago

I tend to block it out of my mind that LeBron only has 4 MVPs. One of the wildest instances of voter fatigue

prayforplagues82

4 | 6 hours ago

It always trips me out that Kobe only has one MVP

Meaty-clackers | Lakers

-11 | 5 hours ago

Lakers players don’t win awards that are voted on and subjective. Always been the case.

BrothersCup | LAL

1 | 3 hours ago

It’s insane that the Lakers are the only team to have never had a finalist for Most Improved

GrizzlyP33

-3 | 5 hours ago

Lol, Kobe shouldn’t have even won the year he did. Though he should’ve won one of Nash’s.

He also won a finals mvp that should’ve gone to Pau.

What Laker do you think got cheated out of MVP?

coocoach | Vancouver Grizzlies

8 | 4 hours ago

You mean one of those years that the lakers had 45 wins or 34 wins? Mind you the suns won 54 wins without Amare stoudemire

GrizzlyP33

0 | 2 hours ago

Wow as a Laker hating Celtics fan I never thought I’d get downvoted for saying something unpopular in favor of Kobe 😂

2006 is what I was referring to. 45 wins for that squad was very impressive. 19 / 10 from Nash was great and he’s one of my favorite players of all time, but Kobe averaged 35 / 5 / 5 that year while being significantly better on defense than Nash.

The Suns only won 9 more games than the Lakers that year while the Lakers were starting Smush Parker and Kwame Brown and Chris Mihm. Marion / Raja / Barbosa / Diaw was a really solid supporting cast as we know, not to mention much better depth than the Lakers had.

Even if you considered them equal offensively that year - and I get how Nash made that 7 seconds offense flourish - I don’t see how you can just ignore defense to the point that you don’t think Kobe was more deserving that year.

Colangelo_Ball | 76ers

2 | 4 hours ago

Team sport. Players shouldn’t but put into a “pantheon” just because they were on a team with a good GM and cap manager.

trav-senpai | Kings

2 | 4 hours ago

Cherry picked stats are cherry picked stats

HandsomeGemini | Warriors

2 | 3 hours ago

Not only is the Finals MVP named after Bill Russell, but he’s got more championships than anyone in NBA history. Than anyone in any American team sport. For the NBA’s 35 anniversary, he was named the greatest player of all time up to that point. To not include him for not winning an award that wasn’t around for 12 of his 13 seasons, and in his final season was given to the a losing player because they voted before the series ended.. is fucking ridiculous. All he did was win.

Novel_Board_6813

2 | 3 hours ago

This seems like cherry picking

I don’t get why the team accomplishment requires 3, but the individual accomplishments requires only 1 each

If you required 2 FMVPs and 2 rings, KD would be in. Steph would be out.

If you required 3 MVPs instead of 3 rings, Shaq, Steph, Kobe, KD would all be out (and Jokic would be in)

And now you have Hakeem and Wilt a step away, just like Dennis Johnson and Iguodala…

Superplex123 | Lakers

2 | 3 hours ago

I agree with the general sentiment of what you’re saying, but…

no cherry-picked stats

The number 3 in 3 rings is itself cherry-picked.

DubsLA | Bulls

2 | 3 hours ago

These 9 plus Wilt and Russell make up my Pantheon. All of them defined an era of the league.

Tankshock | 76ers

2 | 3 hours ago

I misunderstood at first and thought you meant 3 of each. Which I actually kinda like as the GOAT Pantheon cutoff.

But yea Bill has to get an exemption since the award is literally named after him.

pozoleNjuan

2 | 3 hours ago

So kobe is top ten of all time

L1teEmUp

2 | 2 hours ago

Careful, you’ll get downvoted by reddit coz they say Kobe is not top 10 of all time..

m0booty

3 | 2 hours ago

Reddit really hates Kobe and most of them probably never watched him play.

pozoleNjuan

1 | 32 minutes ago

Fuck them and their downvotes.

Hannibal_Spectre | Canada

2 | 3 hours ago

The missing MVP list is so much weaker than the other 2 missing category ones.

sctbarn | Mavericks

2 | 2 hours ago

Hakeem is only missing 1 ring, but his sole two rings are harder than anything the qualified members went through with the exception of Lebron in 2016.

WARLOCK1239 | Bulls

2 | 2 hours ago

It’s a dumb measurement because finals MVP is the most overrated award. It’s more about “did you play well/up to your standard in the finals”. And then rings have to be taken with context with the rules and era (like salaries, free agency, etc.)

Like Bill Russell and Wilt are both obviously top 10 players of all time. You’re only as great as your competition.

Like would Russell have 8-11 FMVPs? Unlikely, but does that mean he’s now seen as no longer as great because he didn’t win FMVP every single time? No.

Wilt only has 2 rings. But he in his prime before he ruptured his patellar tendon, practically every season but 2 were his seasons ended by the champs. And he was the only guy to ever lead his team to victory against the greatest dynasty of all time. It’s one thing to lose, but losing to the champs is a lot easier to swallow. Just like I’m not gonna dismiss LeBron’s finals record because I didn’t expect him to beat the Spurs in 07 and the Warriors in 17 and 18.

m0booty

2 | 2 hours ago

I actually really like this and it makes a ton of sense with an asterisk next to Bill Russell.

nico_juro | Nuggets

2 | 2 hours ago

Sucks that Joker won’t make this list because he’s intent on staying in the Denver dumpster fire

ChefCurryYumYum | Warriors

2 | an hour ago

Those guys are pretty good at basketball I’d say.

Artimusjones88 | Raptors

2 | an hour ago

To be be in the Pantheon you need 3 or more rings, otherwise its not exclusive enough

BananaBrownie5000

1 | 31 minutes ago

Just get rid of FMVP as a requirement, any player with an MVP and 3 rings is obviously going to be FMVP caliber the only exceptions are before the award existed.

Frankaragatan [OP]

1 | 6 hours ago

Other players who have an MVP, Finals MVP and 1 ring:

Wes Unseld - 1 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP
Moses Malone - 3 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP
Dirk Nowitzki - 1 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP

Among active players, these are the ones who have a legitimate shot to enter the pantheon:

Kevin Durant - 1 MVP, 2 rings, 2 Finals MVP
Giannis Antetokounmpo - 2 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP
Nikola Jokic - 3 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander - 2 MVP, 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP

Simple_Purple_4600

1 | 5 hours ago

then it’s a dumb list

WiIIemdafoe | OKC

1 | 5 hours ago

Either bump the FMVP to 3-4 or leave it out all together.

transizzle | SAC

1 | 4 hours ago

I kinda like 2 of each.

Half_baked_prince | Clippers

1 | 4 hours ago

We are three seasons away from Yanic Konan Neiderhauser from joining this illustrious list

i7ive4thedrop | Nuggets

1 | 4 hours ago

You know I didn’t see it then but kudos to the OP. You have brought the best of out of r/nba again.

I should’ve seen this one coming. Carry on gentlemen.

prfrnir

1 | 3 hours ago

Or we could have a 2 Championships, 2 MVPs, and 2 Finals MVPs pantheon with Jordan, Bird, Magic, Kareem, LeBron, and Duncan. We can add Bill and Wilt because Bills championships came without the FMVP and Wilt’s 1st championship also didn’t have the award yet either.

WV_Is_Its_Own_State | Lakers

1 | 3 hours ago

Is it a fair measurement…for what? That they did these things? In that case, yes. Other than that, not sure it measures much. If KD were to win a ring this year, would it negate the last decade where he’s done…nothing? Ok then.

penguin_torpedo | Nuggets

1 | 2 hours ago

An all time great should be able to take his team to the promised land at least once, but 3 is often completely out of his hands. All of the players listed were part of outstanding organizations and had great rosters around them. Hakeem totally belongs in this group of players, and there’s and argument for KG, Jerry West and Jokic.

Muted-Low-5303 | Lakers

2 | an hour ago

And so many people don’t want to put Kobe in their top 10 or even 15 for some it’s wild how much hate he gets

Aeon1508 | Pistons

1 | an hour ago

I knew worthy. who else won a finals MVP over Magic?

Frankaragatan [OP]

1 | 26 minutes ago

Kareem in ‘85

Magic stole Kareem’s in ‘80. Granted that was the series where Kareem got injured and Magic did a great carry in Game 6, as a rookie.

romanceeeeeee

1 | an hour ago

Give me iguodala

JJiggy13

2 | an hour ago

MVP is very subjective so 1 MVP is an acceptable bar here. In reality Jordan should have had 10, LeBron and Kobe 8

KingOfTheCourtBBall

1 | 38 minutes ago

I think two 2 rings, 2 mvps, 2 finals mvp would be better.

LightCured

1 | 15 minutes ago

Nah 2 mvp minimum

AdministrativeBag703

1 | 15 minutes ago

I think one MVP is a kinda low benchmark. Lots of players not in the toppers of top tiers won a single MVP, and a single Finals MVP can be fluky too, where the actual best player doesn’t get it due to some outlier performance. I think a better benchmark is multiple rings and multiple MVPs.

Vaccaria_ | Lakers

1 | 7 minutes ago

I like this list cause it doesn’t have Russell and Wilt in it. I’d put Hakeem as my 10th

SignificantScreen100 | Celtics

0 | 6 hours ago

If you count Multiple MVPs (as you should), Russell in and Shaq and Kobe out. See? It’s easy.

Schmoova | Mikal Bridges

0 | 5 hours ago

2+ MVPs and 3+ Rings is the better accolade barrier IMO.

Same list just drops Shaq and Kobe, and that’s my personal top 7.

The next ~7 in any order can be Russell, Wilt, Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, KG, KD.

inkyblinkypinkysue | Knicks

0 | 5 hours ago

Cool. Brunson will be joining this list in only 2 years.

OsikFTW | Supersonics

1 | an hour ago

Only one of those left his team to win on another superstars coattails…

prettymuthafucka | Wizards

-1 | 4 hours ago

Who made this the standard? Seems like LeBron PR to me.

No-Alternative2897

2 | 4 hours ago

Sounds more like Steph to me. 1 fmvp qualifier really gonna include some dudes like Igoudala, TP, Dumars in this kind of convo.

lightbrownjames

1 | 3 hours ago

They don’t have regular season MVPs though, which separates guys like them from the others.

frozennocean

-14 | 6 hours ago

What? Kobe in a top 10 list? On this forum? You’ve angered the soy boys. Here they come in three…two…

The Standard of Basketball Pantheon: 3 Rings, MVP, Finals MVP. Only 9 Players have done it in history: Kareem, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, LeBron, Steph

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