Ray Allen tells young fan LeBron can never be in consideration for GOAT because he cannot dribble, shoot 3’s, or free throws
Lol no wonder Lebron unfollowed Ray on IG
CRayzy Ray might’ve legit spammed Lebron’s DMs with how bad he is at dribbling, shooting 3s and free throws
73% isn’t great but it isn’t terrible by any stretch
Shit if Mitchell Robinson shot 73% we’d have swept the fuckin playoffs lmao
Well they wouldnt hack him then
Then JB’s ppg goes up. Keep going I’m almost there
And he’s pretty much a league average 3PT shooter for his career. And I’m always confused when people say he can’t dribble, he’s never crossed people up like he’s Jamal Crawford I guess, but he can dribble just fine and get to his spots. He’s right at league average turnovers for a high usage guy, so he’s not a turnover machine by any means. Also when he can bulldoze to the rim at will, why would he need to dribble? Even if we say he is just average at those things, everything else he does is at an elite level. He’s the all-time leading scorer. One of the greatest minds the game has ever seen. We will never see a guy his size have the athleticm that he does. Has never had a serious injury. Is still playing at a high level at 42 years old. He is the goat.
And he can dribble very well for his size. I can’t think of many other 6’9” players with his handle. He isn’t flashy but he’s very effective. Despite his all time great transition play and rim attacking he really hasn’t averaged that many FTA.. I don’t think it’s a meme to say he doesn’t shoot as many free throws as he deserves given his aggressiveness at the rim.
SGA has already averaged more FTA in the last 3 years than any of LeBron’s highest FTA seasons which is wild. He is/was just too strong/dominant to get the free throws he deserves, otherwise it would be a foul call on like 70% of his drives.
It’s crazy to think Lebron can’t dribble, when even his first year, he got to the rim whenever he wanted on teams with no other stars. He was a freight train - too big, too strong and plenty fast enough.
Exactly, LeBron’s handle for his size combined with that physique and driving ability was something we’d never really seen before. It’s also why when Giannis first started breaking out the initial comparisons were always to young LeBron for the same reasons, size/handles on full court drives.
I think KD has a better handle at his size but for their careers even ignoring off the court stuff most people are taking Lebron over KD lol
KD has a nicer crossover but when it comes to functional handle LeBron’s is much better. KD has always had trouble handling ball pressure and often has to pick his dribble up a couple of steps early. He is such a good shooter that where he picks it up is still a solid shot, but it’s been a big issue in playoffs he is not playing with Steph Curry.
People think flashy handle and dribble moves directly equates to functional dribbling. If KD had as much on ball responsibility as LeBron he’d turn the ball over even more. Being able to handle the ball in traffic with playmaking expectations is a lot harder than being gifted shots. KD hasn’t gotten of the semifinals in 7 years, which is wild considering he’s team hopped and gotten to choose his destination, coaches and teammates. Not done shit after leaving the best shooting team of all time.
The same KD that can’t handle a double team?
I agree but Paul George
T-Mac and Paul George are both around Lebron’s height. There are lots of people at 6’9” who were significantly better dribblers than Lebron but that’s not really relevant since he can get to his spots effectively due to his bulk and speed which is more important than having excellent handles.
He’s just a lot more of a brute athlete than a finesse one. Hes kind of like Barkley. Not a complete unfluid robot like Dwight Howard but ya. So I can see why people would say his handles are meh. I’m honestly always shocked how well he can move with his duck feet lol.
His dribble is shaky at best and features far too many uncalled travels—one of the most glaring holes in his game.
I disagree with Ray Allen with regards to those things keeping Lebron out of GOAT contention but Lebron wasn’t a good 3 point shooter for quite awhile. His averages look much better than his actual ability from 3 because guys we’re leaving him wide open in order to hedge against his drive. In reality, he didn’t actually become a decent 3 point shooter until very late into his Miami stint and early in his second Cleveland stint.
With that being said, his 3 point shooting, free throw shooting, and lack of dribbling while certainly aren’t really ideal haven’t really been hindrances throughout his career. He can still easily get to his spots due to his size, hit 3’s when open, and hit free throws at a respectable enough rate that he’s still very efficient overall.
This is not to say I think he’s the GOAT either, I think MJ is still the GOAT with Lebron a close 2nd. I’m just saying those things don’t preclude him from being in contention for GOAT as the other positive aspects of his game far outweigh the negative ones.
It’s below average & you want at least average if you’re going to take a lot of free throws.
Think I’d rather have LeBron over an average FT shooter
You can be below average at a portion of the game and still be the GOAT. Also the below average 3 and dribbling is incorrect.
The same man that can save you from slander can also slander you himself
Man that is wild. Considering Ray contributed towards lebrons GOAT case.
Probably why he doesn’t think he’s the goat
I mean he should. He scored 16 in the 4th quarter
And literally hit the 3 like 2 possessions before that made it a 3 point game that gave Ray the opportunity to tie the game up.
ray then went on to score a whopping ZERO points in game 7, turned the ball over 3 times though
And the guy who can’t shoot or dribble had a near 40 point triple double, hit 5 threes, and sealed the game with a PnR middy pull up. Crazy
This doesn’t even feel like hate coming from Ray Allen lol. It’s like he’s legit trying to impart how important free throws should be to the young fans.
LeBron still being a meh free throw shooter is kinda funny. He’s honed every other aspect of his game to an elite level at some point of his career. Never his free throws
It has to be mental… there’s no way he hasn’t put significant effort into improving his FT%
I think it’s just clear proof that everyone has limits. Solid evidence to go against the fans who say guys need to “just work on…”, as if athletes just need enough XP to unlock the next skill
but I was just saying that it LeBron stayed crouched down as he walked, his sneak skill would get to 100 in no time at all
Thank you. That kind of discourse drives me crazy.
Right behind “They just need to get him going!” (Reggie Miller loves saying this)
This one is true though for some players. Klay Thompson needs a few dumb shots to get his juices flowing. Just have to humor him a few times
Then once he’s hot it’s damn hard to stop.
I’m sure someone will dispute this with some statistic, but it does seem like LeBron is at least a better ft shooter when it matters late in games, at least from my memory of watching basketball
he doesn’t think Lebron’s better than MJ because he made one shot for the comeback lebron scored and created every other point as he beat a better version of the bad boy pistons with his best teammate injured?
sounds like a dumbass to me
He also did play against both Prime Jordan and Prime LeBron and Prime Kobe. So he does have some frame of reference.
But Jordan and Kobe also weren’t the best shooters or dribblers. The argument is flawed
Jordan was probably the best mid range shooter.
In Ray’s words.. can MJ driibble? No. Shoot threes? No. Free Throws? MJ shoots 83.5% from the line.
ancient Chinese proverb
Why is Ray Allen doing this?
He had to watch Bron brick free throws in practice.
Every time Ray Allen used a swear word, he had to watch LeBron miss a free throw. It’s a weird Pat Riley thing.
And people were calling Celtics fans salty after he ditched for the Heat the year after losing to them.
Nah Ray was just always petty and weird
Telling his honest opinion about a subject they were asking him about?
He can’t have an opinion ?
He can but people can also reject the clearly flawed opinions.
So who’s the goat then? Steph Curry?
Ray Allen
Need to do a documentary ala Wrestlings Dark Side of the Ring on the 2013 Heat
Ray walked out on that Celtics brotherhood to go play for the Heat and this is the result years later. While KG and Pierce are still doing podcasts together.
Meh. I can see why the Celtics were pissed at him going to their rival. But they had tried to trade him to the Grizzlies, he was fighting with Rondo (who supported the trade) and his role was diminished.
I also found it hypocritical that KG and Pierce went to Brooklyn to compete against the Celtics and somehow that was ok.
Loyalty isn’t really a thing on a Danny Ainge team, and loyalty is a two way street.
Pierce had to convince KG to go. Also, Ray took half as much money to go to the team that just broke their souls in a 7 game ECF. Those Celtics teams spent years battling Lebron and Ray joined up with the super team that stopped them.
Not saying he didn’t have his reasons, but he knew he was busting up that friendship when he made that decision
KG and Pierce were traded.
You think they didn’t have a say?
They did. KG was going to refuse but Pierce convinced him to allow the trade, which was in the Celtics best interests. Fans appreciated them for letting it happen and will always be loved by the fanbase
You know that Boston Celtics championship team has a group chat without him.
Ray’s DM’s: ‘I’m getting there, think about me when practicing your shot switching back and forth from 3’s and free throws’
Ray Allen may be onto something. I’ve also never seen LeBron dribble, shoot 3s, or make free throws. I still do hope to catch my first basketball game some day though.
Im legally blind. I also havent seen bron dribble, shoot 3s, or make free throws.
Im legally blind
Mama, I love you. POP. Hold it down. All good. Pimp squad baby for life.
I can see. BARELY.
How I’m gone drive a car?
How do you type on braille?
Accessibility has come a long way, brother
You feel for the correct key then press down.
This hits too deep
Does Ray Allen have any former teammates that he likes or that like him?
I can’t stand the GOAT debate but that’s one of the dumbest takes I’ve heard in a while
You expected too much from a guy that couldn’t even smooth things over with the Celtics after leaving them.
He’s an awkward dude
Awkward dude is an understatement. Look up “Ray Allen Twitter” lol
switching back and forth lol
Thinking about tongues
Judas Shuttlesworth
Excellent.
Exactly my thoughts. I hate the GOAT talk but this is just pure stupidity
Ya same, even if someone is vehement that LeBron is ONLY the second best ever, who cares? He’s one of the most special athletes we’ve ever seen. Cherish him while he still here instead of putting him down.
It honestly might be the dumbest of them all. An incredible feat given the sheer scale of dumfuck takes when it comes to the goat discussion.
Every GOAT debate is pretty dumb. A lot of people just prioritize the category that will give an edge to whoever they like, and make an argument for it.
The ‘Ray Allen saved LeBron’s career’ takes must’ve gotten to him
He was shit for 99% of that game, just like his college championship.
he also had 0 points the very next game lmao
The idea that he saved that game is truly outrageous if you watch that quarter LeBron is fucking going OFF
That’s the most gut-wrenching shot in Finals history, it is not embellishment to say Ray saved that game. They were getting out the rope barriers for the spurs trophy presentation. Ray is one of the less than handful of people who can reasonably hit that shot in that context in the history of the game. Crazy thing is he was so good he actually practiced that shot
Then he proceeded to have zero points in game 7. Did Lebron save Ray Allen’s legacy?
It’s really great Ray finished that shot (i mean at the end of the day it’s a team sport) but they wouldn’t be in that position without Lebron going HOT in late 4Q, he refused to accept a loss.
Lebron unlocked extra powers when his headband got knocked off in that 4th quarter.
I’m a heat fan and watched damn near every game during those years. I remember ray Allen missed so many shots and really underperformed compared to what was expected of him. He did hit some clutch ones tho.
Not saying his take is valid but Ray shot pretty well for you guys.
45/40/89 during the regular season and 42/40/89 in the playoffs.
It’s Reddit man. All vibes no facts
So he MISSED 55/60/11 & 58/60/11!? /s
He did hit sone clutch ones is the understatement of the year lol
Back out to Allen - BANNNGGG
This is madness. Who the fuck is I voting this nonsense???
He was old 😂
What a delusional take. That Ray Allen shot not just saved Lebron’s legacy. It saved Magic and Bird’s as well as Timmy would be 5-0 or possibly 6-0.
Shaq the worst player ever confirmed
Literally terrible at dribbling, shooting 3s and making free throws. How we ever won anything with him is a miracle!
That fraud shaq was carried by dwade the same way he was carried in LA by kobe
Mister Charles Barkley ! Big fan.
I may have won no rings but I lost them ethically to GOATs like mj unlike that fraud
Don’t let Shaq see this you bum.
He’ll shit in your bed or something.
Maybe even shit on his mouth directly
Look me up, CHUCK. 💍 💍 💍 💍
Shaq was low-key a monster in transition until he decided he liked roy rogers and donuts more than having a shot at the GOAT. there are some legit terrifying clips of him in orlando and his earlier LA days cutting through defenders and destroying the rim
If you didn’t know, he got into the best shape of his career in Miami, go watch those old Ads of Miami Shaq back when he was 2nd in MVP voting, he looks so much more cut than the LA version
he lost some weight but there’s no way Miami Shaq was in better shape than Orlando Shaq
Wilt had a career FT% worse than Shaq (.511) and never shot a three in his life (for obvious reasons).
I guess he’s out of the conversation too.
Really goes to show that just because guys played in the NBA doesn’t necessarily mean their takes make any more sense than regular fans. People think because they played in the league that it makes their takes more valuable than others. It really doesn’t. For instance there’s a bunch of players that still consider Kobe the goat. They have their own personal and biased opinions just like anyone else.
There are definitely some players that know the game more than pretty much any fans. Those that work close with coaches, talk to the front office and try to understand what goes into evaluating players and succeeding on the court.
But there are also plenty of players who just rely on hard work and their innate athleticism and have no idea what makes a player valuable. You also see this whenever players are asked to rank the best players (in all sports), it’s reputation far more than actual production.
Bill Russell confirmed garbage ayt
This is lowkey why he’s not mad that he’s not in the GOAT conversation.
By this logic, Jamal Crawford is better than LeBron James
We already knew that tho
D’aron Fox is better too. Overpaid? Nah UNDERpaid
Well obviously. I don’t see LeBron winning 6th man of the year awards like Jamal Crawford
Was he a great passer? Was he a great rebounder? Was he a great scorer? /s
Kidding aside, I actually thought Crawford was a greater scorer than he actually was. He “only” averaged 17.9 points per 36 minutes.
Typical microwave scorer. He’d go nuclear for 37 points in 22 minutes or something and then have a game with 7 points on 4⁄19 shooting or something. He had four 50 point games. Just not always consistent.
7 points on 4⁄19 shooting is kinda crazy though.
So crazy that its Impossible
They took points away for his selfishness
100%. Guys like him win some games for the team over a season but also shut the door on some games because their shooting is so abysmal. Not everyone can get around 27/7/7 every single night they touch the court
Style over substance
Analytics would’ve had him out the league by 28 imo
Eh analytics actually aren’t super unkind to Jamal. He was sort of a necessary evil for a lot of teams. These days there’s usually 3-4 guys on the court at a time who can handle the ball and create shots, it wasn’t really like that in his era so you usually needed someone who could at least create something otherwise the ball would end up in the hands of defensive specialists, or average low post creators.
Teams also didn’t used to stagger their creators as much so you’d have a lot more all bench units, and that’s where the microwave guys actually had a particular use, even if that’s not how they’d be used now.
Very basic stats but he was at a 1.9 OBPM over a 14 year period, which would put you around 40th in the league this year. Defensively always negative but it still netted to positive the majority of those years.
Mind you, LeBron is a better three point shooter, dribbler, and free throw shooter than multiple players traditionally in that convo.
I’m curious to know who Ray Allen thinks is the goat. His metrics make it nearly impossible for someone to be the goat
Curry fits the bill best ig
Does he defend? Can he jump high? Does he have multiple FMVPs?
No? Boom
Is Steph the best dunker and rebounder in the league? Well how can he be the GOAT if he’s not the best in every category at the same time?!?!?
Have we confirmed Curry can dribble?
LeBron has a higher three point percentage than Jordan. And he is 6th all time in makes lol
Jordan also got to buff his career 3pt% on a season with the line in 2 feet, his best shooting season
Lebron is career 4.7 attempts on 34.8% from 3. Pretty solid. He objectively can shoot threes.
that isn’t even accounting for the fact his shot-diet on 3s is harder than the majority of the league
So Steve Nash is the GOAT then.
Subscribe
A great day for Canada and therefore the world
Steven Nash isnt the GOAT because he cannot dunk, defend, and rebound
So Clint Capela is the GOAT?
DeAndre Ayton is the GOAT*
Good take
Always has been.
This guy gets it
Damn i never pegged Ray as being a complete idiot. Guess I was wrong
Not only is Ray Allen’s argument inherently flawed that GOAT status is simply being the best at atomic actions, but even if you gave him the benefit of the doubt that the GOAT basketball player needs to be good at all aspects of the game, then his conclusion isn’t even consistent with that premise.
By his own logic, he should conclude LeBron is the GOAT.
LeBron James holds the distinct record of having each of the five roles listed as his official primary position at various points throughout his career. LeBron is by far the most well-rounded player in the GOAT discussion, and maybe even the history of the game.
This is the best take on thread. By Allen’s standard, the GOAT debate is no debate at all. James wins it easily.
All those three pointers went to his head
CT3
Ray is a fucking moron lmao. Talked a whole bunch of shit on Kobe then got rightfully exposed for it, left Boston talking all the shit in the world for basically no reason at all, admitted he was cheating on his wife by accidentally just tweeting what was supposed to be a VERY thirsty and no-game-at-all DM, and I’m sure there’s a few other things in forgetting along the way
So Steph is the goat then. Debate solved I guess
Even better: Kyrie
Steph is closer to Kyrie in terms of ball handling than Kyrie is to steph in terms of shooting tho.
That being said Kyrie has all his basketball skills maxxed its awesome to watch.
Is he a great dunker?
I bet
Skip Bayless level take
Skip is funny, this has no redeeming qualities
You find Skip funny? Now that’s some comedy.
He’s funny every once in a while. I’m not even a fan.
So no centers on the GOAT list then?
Mehmet Okur come on down
Jokic clears all three
Definitely no Wilt I guess.
NO CENTERS!
Michael Jordan couldn’t shoot 3’s either. Therefore the only logical conclusion is that Jose Calderon is the GOAT.
Chandler Parsons erasure
he was so terrible at 3s. he shot less than 30% in his career if you remove the years when the 3 point line was moved closer to the basket
This is why I genuinely never give a fuck about players’ opinions on who is better than who. They say the dumbest shit.
Ray Ray has never been the sharpest tool in the shed. Been catfished online twice
Indeed. He eliminated most people’s top 5 completely with these random requirements.
I guess it’s just him, Steph, Reggie, Price, Korver, Mullin, and Stockton. 😅
I’ve loved Ray Allen so much for so many years. The ‘08 Celtics made me fall in love with the NBA when I was 16. I always thought he was just a quiet humble man who smashed 3s in the clutch. Haven’t paid attention to his public persona at all for over a decade. This shit blew my mind. Wtf, Ray?
I’m not a LeBron loyalist or anything but I respect the shit out of the man’s game. I don’t get into the GOAT conversation because the NBA changes. Play style and culture changes. It’s an apples to oranges situation. You can’t compare Kareem to Magic to Larry to Shaq to MJ to Kobe to Lebron to Steph etc etc. There is no GOAT. There are eras. And you can respect them each for what they are. The GOAT shit is so lame.
Rays take here is so off. Seems petty and juvenile and devoid of logic. I wish I didn’t see this vid.
Ray is a generational bridge burner. Not sure any of his former teammates are close with him. Dudes a real idiot.
Didn’t kg forgive him at the jersey retirement
Forgive doesn’t mean he fucks with him
Yeah Jordan well known sharpshooter, what about playmaking or basketball IQ? Do they not matter in becoming the GOAT because Lebron is up there with the best in both categories
Guess this means anyone who played pre-three point line can’t be in consideration for the goat. And through the 90s, too, because no one was really good at 3 point shooting until at least after the Bulls run.
Ray Allen is autistic and that’s facts
why you got him as your pfp
Ray Allen, once the top three-point scorer ever, only has 300 3PM more than a guy that can’t shoot 3’s.
And that number will only continue to go down haha
I think it’s official, we over rate players opinions.
I’m getting there. When u masturbate think about my tongue or your clit and switching back and forth from my dick to my tongue
There it is
Holy shit I completely forgot about this. Thanks for the reminder that Ray is a silly billy gumdrop
Wow. I thought Ray Allen was smart.
I’m no Lebron shill but that take is crazy
i dont care for lebron and i always liked ray but this is pathetic. shame cause i have seen him having somelevel headed takes in the past
Unc has unc takes, more at 11
Fork found in kitchen
So MJ is not in consideration then?
Or Kareem, Wilt or Magic.
So, who is it? Bird? Steph?
Korver might be the goat
Egos never die tbh always a bit lost on how much we rate athletes in the hierarchy of life
🤔 There is no one else in a the goat conversation that certifiably shoots 3s better than LeBron. The best shooters aren’t usually ranked in the top 5.
LeBron has almost 2,000 more made 3s than Jordan
Ray is giving me whiplash. I’m not sure if I’m supposed to like him or not. I swear he was really friendly with Bron during the 75th anniversary celebration.
Just for fun, here are the comparisons:
Career FT %
Turnovers Per game
3PT%
This the same guy who catfished and extorted, right? Just asking for a friend
LeBron is the GOAT because he has scored over 43k points without dribbling, 3pt, or free throws. Incredible!
That bike accident in which half of his helmet was scraped off must have included half of his brain.
Lebron has a higher career 3-point percentage than Jordan, btw