I know a lot of people used to love the A/T ratio stat to show how good a passer a player is. The problem is that it doesn’t separate the difference between a pass leading to a turnover or a different type of turnover (traveling, out of bounds, stolen ball, etc). So I thought to isolate specifically turnovers from bad passes (IE: pass out of bounds, inaccurate pass to a defender, etc)

So I started looking through some players to see who has comparable A/BP (assist to bad pass ratios) and it’s really interesting just how good Paul is compared to some other playmakers in NBA history. Data is only available from 1997 on so any player that played pre-1997, their data after 1997 will be taken. (IE: John Stockton from 1997-2003) . For some reason, bref not loading up certain guys so I’ll upload when they are like Steve Nash. The list consists of mostly people who have lead the league in assists or are constantly up there. Also contains some top 50 all time playmakers.If there’s any particular name you want, let me know and I can grab it. One name I wish I could grab data for was Muggsy Bogues who I believe would be at the top of the list or near the top if it was available. In his last 3.5 years before retirement (97-01), he posted a 5.4 A/BP.

Name	Assists	Bad Pass	A/BP Ratio
Chris Paul	12552	1868	6.72
Tyrese Haliburton	2947	471	6.26
Gary Payton	5848	973	6.01
Mike Conley	6782	1400	4.84
John Stockton	4496	929	4.84
Mark Jackson	4444	923	4.81
Deron Williams	6819	1426	4.78
Andre Miller	8524	1796	4.75
Nikola Jokic	6080	1367	4.45
Rajon Rondo	7584	1760	4.31
Jason Kidd	10701	2508	4.27
Ricky Rubio	5160	1267	4.07
Steve Nash	10335	2540	4.07
LeBron James	12016	3203	3.75
Russell Westbrook	10351	2943	3.52
Damian Lillard	6069	1727	3.51
James Harden	8873	2529	3.51
Trae Young	4868	1493	3.26
Luka Doncic	4230	1312	3.22

Ok-Map4381 | Kings

65 | 13 hours ago

I actually fall into the camp that thinks that there is value that comes from taking more risky passes that produce shots at the rim.

The best way to keep your assist to turnover ratio high is to just, not take risks. Only pass to open jump shooters that the defense is choosing to leave open. Sure, they will shoot at a below average rate, but every shot that goes in gets an assist and there is no risk of turnovers. Obviously, that would lead to a horrible offensive efficiency, but your assist to turnover ratio would be great.

Thinking Basketball had a good video breaking down how riskier passers like Nash and Kidd might have higher individual turnovers, but they decrease team turnovers because the way they set up their teammates takes creative responsibilities away from less capable teammates, all they need to do is hit the easy shots that the superstar PG made for them.

But, if memory serves, CP3 is a weird exception who was able to suppress team turnovers and had very low turnovers himself, kinda the best of both worlds.

CarterAC3 | Spurs

26 | 12 hours ago

Players like Jokic, LeBron and Luka definitely threaten a defense by just holding the ball in the same way that Curry threatens the defense running off-ball

You simply defend differently when you know that, at any moment, your man might be passed the ball. You can’t let your guard down for a second

Ok-Map4381 | Kings

8 | 12 hours ago

Yup. And all of them are lower in the assist to turnover rankings, leading credence to the argument that avoiding turnovers isn’t necessarily key to leading elite offense.

PaleoclassicalPants

3 | 6 hours ago

Also bears mentioning that for most of all 3 players’ careers, they were/are also the #1 scoring option, which inflates total turnovers. Getting stripped in the paint via a triple team counts negatively toward AST/TO ratio but has nothing to do with passing the ball.

OpeDefinitely | Pacers

15 | 11 hours ago

Since the Pacers acquired Haliburton, they’ve averaged 13.5 turnovers in games that Tyrese has played in & 14.25 turnovers in games that Tyrese has missed. That’s generally the difference between a top-10 team & a slightly below average team when it comes to turnovers/game, but this doesn’t account for how often the Pacers (or any other teams) pass the ball.

Since trading for Haliburton, the Pacers have been passing the ball more than every team but GSW. (Including this past season.) Even with the frequency at which the Pacers pass the ball, they’ve managed to keep turnovers relatively low. But somewhat counter-intuitively, the Pacers turn the ball over less with Tyrese on the court despite Tyrese leading the team to pass the ball even more than usual.

Haliburton makes a ton of easy reads/passes, but he also pulls off his share of insane passes that would be risky as fuck for most other NBA guys to even attempt. Dude’s basketball IQ, court vision, and decision making speed are all god tier.

vonnegutcheck

1 | 3 hours ago

This is a little harder to quantify but as both a basketball watcher and player, I think there’s also just an energy when your point guard (and best player) is such a good and willing passer. Everybody is more likely to pass, people keep their heads up, people cut harder, and the entire team plays with a better rhythm. And Tyrese isn’t constantly assist-hunting; he’s just trying to make the best play.

manateecalamity | Timberwolves

14 | 12 hours ago

I think this is a pretty good point. There is an upside to risky passes.

I think the Steph Warriors are a good example too. There have been points where you could describe them as being borderline sloppy with the ball. But that speed and activity is also what made them so dynamic.

reelieuglie

1 | 3 hours ago

That video also brings up a good point that turnovers are not all equal.

Nash trying to zip a ball into the hands of a rolling Stoudemire but missing and throwing it out of bounds is very different than a pass to an “open” Quentin Richardson on the perimeter that gets picked and turned into a break.

Edit: I’d love to see a stat that’s “man disadvantages generated by turnover” kind of stat; like ‘how many of a players turnovers end up with the other team running a 2-on-1 or 3-on-2 break or whatever ‘

Hooper53

55 | 14 hours ago

Could we get Tyus Jones and Jordan McLaughlin? The assists aren’t going to be all-time high, but I imagine they have decent A/BP

xxStayFly81xx [OP] | Nets

62 | 14 hours ago

Tyus Jones - 7.44
Jordan McLaughlin - 5.82

Jones is so far the highest I’ve seen. I know he had a great reputation for A/T on MEM so it makes sense he’s high up here too.

moonshadow50 | Spurs

11 | 14 hours ago

What about Tre Jones? I would’ve thought his number will be close to as good/better than his brother

xxStayFly81xx [OP] | Nets

21 | 14 hours ago

6.74. So it’d be 2nd but still decent far off from Tyus.

Mg29reaper | Celtics

3 | 12 hours ago

How about Payton Pritchard. He has some pretty crazy A/To numbers

AdImpressive7198 | Timberwolves

1 | 2 hours ago

Your gonna love Mike Conley

exactly7 | Vancouver Grizzlies

1 | 14 hours ago

I can’t find the full list but I did find one from 2023-24 season where Tyus Jones is at 7.35… absurd. By far the highest in the league that season - 2 full assists ahead of both Chris Paul and Haliburton

tisdue | Suns

2 | 3 hours ago

do people actually watch Tyus Jones play? He is only an efficient passer because he takes it across half court, and passes it the first man and then runs to the corner for maybe an open 3. He doesnt have turnovers because he never tries to make actual plays.

legend023 | Pelicans

51 | 14 hours ago

I was gonna say him but you made the list for us lmao

Makes sense though, CP was amazing

The_MadStork | NYK

55 | 14 hours ago

“CP was amazing”

🚨🚔🚨

imthesqwid | Philippines

7 | 12 hours ago

What a pervert

Klutzy_Struggle8659 | Warriors

0 | 12 hours ago

I genuinely hate this account. So confidently wrong.

MehEds

6 | 10 hours ago

HAAAANK DON’T ABBREVIATE CHRIS PAUL’S NAME WITHOUT HIS NUMBER HAAAANK

DoOBiE_BoOBiE | Suns

21 | 14 hours ago

CP3 on the Suns was peak floor general basketball. Just him and some young ballers going all the way. Unfortunately Giannis turned into a god amongst men that series, because that should’ve been Paul’s ring.

thecheapseatz | Warriors

7 | 14 hours ago

Could say the same thing about CP3 and the Thunder

DoOBiE_BoOBiE | Suns

10 | 14 hours ago

Yeah I’m just biased is all (: lol

sunpar1 | Nets

12 | 14 hours ago

Assists are also kinda garb to me though. There’s too many assists that I think are not indicative of play making skill

Funny-Transition7869 | Pacers

8 | 14 hours ago

but if everyones assists are inflated the difference from one player to another still matters

ImAShaaaark | Supersonics

8 | 13 hours ago

That’d be true if all generous assist credits were allocated equally, I’m not sure that’s true.

sunpar1 | Nets

1 | 14 hours ago

Yea I mean most of the best passers have good assist totals, not contending anything else there.

I would like to see assists as any pass in a possession that results in points or free throw attempts, provided no more than one dribble occurs after the pass and no intentional foul (like no hack a shaq fouls or end of game fouls).

This would account for hockey assists, and it would account for passes that lead to foul shots as well as made buckets.

I would also like to explore the idea of giving assists for passes leading to open shots, as determined by synergy tacking data.

Klutzy_Struggle8659 | Warriors

2 | 12 hours ago

There’s secondary assists and expected assists

Klutzy_Struggle8659 | Warriors

2 | 12 hours ago

That’s why you use RAPM six factor

freshprince44

9 | 13 hours ago

curious how KG shows up on this (and dray, webber, pau, noah), would guess that maybe bigs would have it a little easier, but maybe not? this stat obviously doesn’t tell the whole story, but is a cool type of metric we don’t see enough of

fun to see Payton up so high, dude is ridiculously underrated now days

SoFreshCoolButta | Warriors

2 | 12 hours ago

Tony Parker 5.15

Jimmy 5.11

KG 4.55

Baron 4.31

MJ 3.65 in his last two Bulls seasons

Noah 3.56

Kobe 3.48

Draymond 3.35

Steph 3.32

Pau 3.30

Duncan 3.12

Webber 3.08

Dirk 3.04

KD 3.01

Shaq 3.00

freshprince44

1 | 4 hours ago

siiiiick, thank you

yeah, this tracks. turns out pop’s and duncan’s bullying worked out lol. KG being right around Jokic makes sense too, they worked in similar areas but on slightly different volumes/eras

SoFreshCoolButta | Warriors

1 | 23 minutes ago

Whatd you mean by pop and duncan’s bullying?

runevault | Nuggets

4 | 14 hours ago

Not surprising Jokic is where he is on this list. Dude will do some risky stuff and it can be really wild when it pays off but also really wild when it doesn’t.

The one thing with his bad passes, I wonder what percentage are his fault, and what percent are the other guy breaking assignment. A few times I remember a guy breaking right as Jokic was trying to no-look them open but because he didn’t see they moved it goes out of bounds. Obviously every volume passer has some of that, though it feels like Jokic does a lot more no look or at least look away passes than a lot of guys.

221ABaker

4 | 12 hours ago

Could you look up Jose Calderon? I remember him putting up some wildly good assist to turnover ratios.

cityofpalms

2 | 12 hours ago

Gotta be up there

SoFreshCoolButta | Warriors

2 | 11 hours ago

/u/221ABaker Calderon is at 5.51, good call. The highest one I’ve seen now aside from the list OP posted.

The only other two I checked that were above 5.0 were Jimmy and Tony Parker

Also haven’t found anybody less than 3.00 (Shaq, Ben Wallace, KD, Dirk) are around here, even Clint Capela was higher… oh wait as typing this I checked Javale Mcgee lol a lot less volume/data but an abysmal 1.35

Guessing NBA average is around 3.30 or so

DecentDiver458

3 | 14 hours ago

Pretty surprised Luka is lower than Westbrook and Lebron

Tyrese is the new point god, love his game

ilikekittens2018 | Nuggets

2 | 13 hours ago

Just goes to show how Paul’s IQ was in another league compared to… well, the league. Most of his steals came from outsmarting his opponents too. If CP3 was in Shai’s body or something he would be the GOAT and it wouldn’t be close.

MrWolfsbane | Knicks

1 | 14 hours ago

I think the formatting rendered a little off, but good post! curious about brunson since he’s not pass-first but he also doesn’t turn it over much

xxStayFly81xx [OP] | Nets

2 | 14 hours ago

Should be fixed now! I’ll check with Brunson.

EDIT: Brunson is at 5.03

No-Nature3939

1 | 14 hours ago

Are we able to track bad passes that far back? I dont mean to poke holes or anything. Im just not sure how we can say something is ‘bad pass’ without tracking data, no?

xxStayFly81xx [OP] | Nets

6 | 14 hours ago

So, we have tracking data since 1997. So for guys like Mark Jackson and Stockton, it’s from 1997 until retirement. So it’s not the most accurate image. Just wanted some type of comparative data for them compared to today’s players.

Beef_Stew4l | Pistons

1 | 14 hours ago

Bad pass? Or turnover? Who’s keeping stats on “bad pass”?

dontgetitwisted_fr | Raptors

1 | 12 hours ago

Also with assist to any turnover ratio the players a guy plays with matter.

You could be a great passer but if the guys around you cant finish or have cinder block hands it really affects the numbers.

Assist to turnover ratios also rewards guys who dont take risks.

If you only throw guaranteed lobs and nothing else does that really make a good playmaker?

Just something to think about

azuresou1 | Hawks

1 | 14 hours ago

I believe there were some stat that incorporated assist quality - Potential Assists and Expected Assists, I think?

It would be really insightful to roll those in instead of raw Assists to adjust for teammate effect and ball placement, since we know not all assists are created equally.

xxStayFly81xx [OP] | Nets

1 | 14 hours ago

I can definitely try that but I’m not knowledgeable about pulling raw data from nba stats so if I were to do it manually, it’d take a while. Definitely a project for another day.

Jaerba | DET

1 | 13 hours ago

I think it’s worth keeping in mind not all “bad passes” are truly bad. There’s a benefit to taking risks and keeping the defense off balance. There have been times in CP3’s career where he refused to make risky passes, and it hurt his offenses overall.

Like a shooter that’s willing to shoot a contested vs a shooter who passes out if they’re not wide open.

SoFreshCoolButta | Warriors

3 | 12 hours ago

For sure, Draymond is not at the upper end of this (3.35) for example cause he takes a lot of risks that seem pretty bone-headed but also nets some easy baskets or good transition opportunities from those

NihilisticTaters | Spurs

1 | 11 hours ago

Awesome job putting this together! Agreed that it’d be really fun to see how Muggsy was for his career. His first 7 seasons with Charlotte, before his big injury, were all 4.5 to 6 when including all TO types – with his peak season being 89-90, 5.94 A:TO ratio on 867 assists (35rh most in any single season). What’s funny is he also racked up almost as many steals as he did TOs too (1369 v 1433), pretty much negating any of the few he got per game.

Ok_Cockroach8063

1 | 11 hours ago

How is Kendall marshall

bbn10s

1 | 10 hours ago

What about the GROAT Kyle Lowry?

a_glorious_bass-turd | Mavericks

1 | 9 hours ago

John Stockton had less than 5k assists? Am I having a stronk?

BanterBoat | DEN

1 | 5 hours ago

How does Monte Morris fare in this?

Jim_Belushis_brother | Pacers

2 | 14 hours ago

So basically Tyrese is Chris Paul except not a short bitch

AttitudeDismal3817 | Hornets

12 | 14 hours ago

And somehow Chris Paul is still way better defensively

Delanorix | Knicks

0 | 13 hours ago

Andre Miller is your favorite PGs, favorite PG.

medyolang_ | Lakers

-1 | 10 hours ago

if the data is incomplete, why bother? it will always be skewed and no one should trust it

mikesaninjakillr | Celtics

-2 | 11 hours ago

This doesn’t contain Magic Johnson due to lack of available stats and therefore its a completely useless metric by which to measure all time performance at the price position. Interesting but useless.

Omega-Toad-7017 | Bulls

0 | 8 hours ago

literally all stats are useless. even ppg has no real impact on anything important because it’s a fake ball battle. The entire reason we watch and look at stats and anything else with basketball is because it’s interesting

Who are some of the the most “efficient” passers of all time?