Arm-E-Reserves

151 | 4 hours ago

Yup, that’s part of how you get 8 different champions in 8 seasons.

SloshaPacana

103 | 4 hours ago

People say this but no it started before way the 2nd apron shit, the 2nd apron was literally in 2024..

Why we have different champions is largely due to injuries and variance now with 3 point shooting, it’s extremely hard to be a dominant team

BlueJay6400 | Thunder

24 | 4 hours ago

True but Celtics would like like they did in 24, pacers might stay the exact same, knicks, spurs, t wolves would prob all be the same. I think there’s more movement with the apron than anything

lil_e_v_ | 76ers

14 | 3 hours ago

even before the tatum injury the celtics were about to go down 3-1 to the knicks and they had basically the same team other than POTS Porzingis who was injured during the title run anyway. And they were literally about to lose to the knicks because of bad 3pt variance

Xerilion | Celtics

6 | 3 hours ago

Jaylen was playing through a torn meniscus during that series as well

BlueJay6400 | Thunder

1 | 3 hours ago

Well I was just saying that I think Celtics would keep that starting 5 together without the 2nd apron. Just changing some bench pieces around

Putrid-Box4866 | Bulls

7 | 4 hours ago

Or you know, because we no longer have the peak Curry/LeBron, Kobe, Shaq type of players of who can really dominate for a long time.

mlippay

7 | 4 hours ago

Jokic is really damn good. The rest of his team and org isn’t. Jokic doesn’t get hurt much either.

We’re about to see if OKC or the Spurs and their young teams with a ton of assets can go on a run but in this era the older, teams with a lot of guys on their 3rd contract+ especially max guys will be tough to be competitive.

Putrid-Box4866 | Bulls

0 | 4 hours ago

The thing is, players can’t just be really damn good, because other players are really damn good too. Players need to be that much better compared to their competition, not compared to players in the past.

mlippay

1 | 3 hours ago

All those guys you were referring to were repeatedly surrounded by future HOFers. You didn’t say that though. You legit said we don’t have have peak players who can really dominate for a long time. We have very high quality players; the issue is the stack.

Kobe has Shaq and then gasol
LeBron had wade, Bosh and then kyrie/love
Curry had Draymond, KD, Klay.

The issue is less stacking than before of multiple HOF players at once. This is due to the league structure and aprons.

LordBaneoftheSith

3 | 3 hours ago

Jokic and Shai and Wemby and maybe/probably healthy Giannis are as dominant as those guys, and when they have strong, healthy supporting casts, they are still the favorites. LeBron dominated for a long time but he only won 4 rings because you can only drag teams so far. The others won their multiples with dynasty supporting casts, some of which included others on this list.

mtelesha | Knicks

2 | 4 hours ago

No it is absolutely about the collective agreements of the past.

Forced Parity: High-spending rosters are forced to shed depth, opening the door for a new champion every year.

If only the MLB would do anything similar!

yesacabbagez | NBA

3 | 3 hours ago

Yes MLB, the league that just had their first back to back champions in 25 years is the problem.

mtelesha | Knicks

1 | 3 hours ago

No when the Yankees, Dodgers infield cost more than most small markets.

Small markets are screwed in the MLB

ksn0vaN7

4 | 3 hours ago

To be fair that was only for 2021-2023. 2019 Warriors broke down because they had been to 4 straight finals. 2020 Lakers broke down because of they had a very short off-season and because the Lakers medical team was ass. Those two teams had injuries that made sense. The freak injuries started after the Bucks won. The Celtics would’ve been the first team to repeat if it wasn’t for the 2nd apron.

Arm-E-Reserves

1 | 4 hours ago

Yes, of course it started earlier, I just said it’s part of it. The 2nd Apron was explicitly implemented to promote league parity.

decisionagonized | West

1 | 3 hours ago

The league just hasn’t had any dominant players in that timespan. No shade to Jokic or SGA but they’re not Shaq or 2010s LeBron/Steph. Wemby might be that but he’s obviously not there yet

showtime013 | Knicks

0 | 3 hours ago

Yup. And the fact that there hasn’t really been super teams (3 legit superstars) since the KD warriors and Kyrie Bron Cavs. I don’t think people realize that if KD doesn’t leave the warriors , and/or doesn’t tear his Achilles, the warriors probably rattle 4-5 ships off. Injury and Draymond being a jerk caused the parity era lol

the_gargler | Trail Blazers

3 | 3 hours ago

The Knicks have 8 guys from this season locked into next season, and have 21m to spend to stay under the second apron. Seems doable?

valgatiag | Knicks

4 | 3 hours ago

10 now, Alvarado and Diawara got new deals. We have about $14m left for at least 4 more spots. Shamet may be possible but there’s no way to keep Robinson while staying under.

gymhelppls

1 | 30 minutes ago

Not including the 2 second round picks they made.

dreamvomit | Knicks

0 | 3 hours ago

If they stay under the apron they likely lose mitch and shamet. It’s unacceptable not to bring back your guys cuz youre a cheap ass billionaire, after brunson took a paycut for you and the fans showed out and bought all the merch, paid for all the insanely priced tickets. It’s greed, and on top of that it’s moronic cuz Dolan would make more money by paying up and giving the team the best chance to make another run.

SloshaPacana

125 | 4 hours ago

Yeah i mean fair enough

Repeater tax fucks you too and Knicks will be on it next season unless they don’t make any moves i think someone correct me if i’m wrong

byteturtle | Suns

132 | 4 hours ago

I really dont get why fans are so worried about the repeater tax, the only thing it hurts is the owners wallet.

The 2nd apron for sure hurts your ability to build a team but the repeater tax only fucks you if youre the one cutting the checks

SloshaPacana

33 | 4 hours ago

I’m not worried about it and not a single fan would care i would want them to pay but even billionaires owners are not going to pay 50m+ for a single role player in repeater tax

Just look at OKC for example, they got rid of Wiggins and Isaiah Joe and saved like 200m in tax, two role players.. unless you’re like Steve Ballmer sitting on 100b+ paying 200m for two role players like that is not realistic

byteturtle | Suns

17 | 4 hours ago

I mean the warriors paid 100s of millions of dollars in repeater taxes during their peak but it was 100% worth it since they went from a joke of franchise to the most valuable franchise in the entire NBA, and thats not including all the extra cash they made from ticket sales / jersey sales / playoff money etc. etc.

I get why owners want to duck it, I really do, but it drives me crazy when fans are like “We have to duck the repeater tax, we just need to”.

I keep hearing it from Celtics fans when I say they don’t need to trade Brown for salary reasons and I don’t get it at all, as a fan you should want your owners to pay it when youre in the middle of a contention window.

Zapp_Rowsdower_

1 | 3 hours ago

The Celtics fan base is a lost cause. They have tucked tail and are happy with absolutely punting two full seasons of the Js and a lot of regular-season hustle wins.

New owners have done nothing but gut this team from the second they got here. They’re not paying to win…Boston will print money with those fans.

stevefazzari | Celtics

3 | an hour ago

our tax bill was going to be insane, then tatum had an injury that was likely going to keep him out for the whole season. at that point do you pay a historic amount of money to run it back without your star player (or even more money to try and rent someone for a year to fill his shoes) or do you dial it back, develop your role players, build around your talent, and once you reset the clock go back all in for another serious push?

jossteen11 | Timberwolves

3 | an hour ago

Yeah thats a bad faith argument by the person above you. Second apron gets worse the longer you’re in it. Punting on the punitive aspects when your star goes down is vastly different than a team coming off a championship and being like I dOnT wAnT tO pAy. (To the person a couple above) OKC is in a weird spot where they can send off some role players because they have so much young talent and quite a few 1sts over the next few years to retool on rookie contracts or valuable picks to trade or do whatever.

Like the Knicks have like two more yearsish. You just won a championship. Spend the money, see what you can do the next couple years then duck it.

GenoThyme | Celtics

1 | an hour ago

We cut salary to get out from the team building penalties from being in the 2nd apron. The “punting” was forced when JT tore his Achilles and was assumed to be out for the year. It would’ve been a worse plan to keep riding with KP, Horford and Jrue at their ages. We were just the first team to get hosed by the new CBA. Also not sure where the 2nd season of punting comes from since I fully expect Brad to put together a competitive roster for next season. Might not be good enough to win it all, but it won’t be punting the season.

The Celtics also don’t print money in Boston. Celtics are the third most popular team in the city. It’s always Red Sox first and is usually Patriots 2nd, though the C’s were probably the 2nd most popular team when they made 2 out of 3 Finals and the Pats were starting Mac Jones.

SloshaPacana

-7 | 4 hours ago

The Warriors became valuable because of their location and getting good not because they paid repeater taxes my guy, Warriors valuation sky rocketed mostly due to location

Same reason the Clippers were always worth so much despite being ass for most of their history

byteturtle | Suns

8 | 4 hours ago

Warriors were worth 315 million in 2009, now theyre worth 11 billion.

That big an increase was in large part of how good they were and how good they were was in large part determined by the fact that they were willing to spend money on good players and not afraid of investing the money into the players and the team.

MuchAbouAboutNothing | Thunder

2 | an hour ago

This is not your daddy’s CBA

Under this CBA, a repeater $14 million over the tax line pays $40.25 million in taxes. Under the old CBA, they would have paid $14 million in taxes.

byteturtle | Suns

1 | an hour ago

Oh no, the Billionare owner has to make less money on his asset worth billions for a couple of years, whatever will they do?

I’m not saying the Knicks should go into the repeater tax for the next decade, I’m saying a run like this may never come around again and if you aren’t willing to eat the repeater tax for that, then you shouldn’t be an owner.

They’re going to make some of it back in playoff money and ticket sales and merch anyways. Cheap owners are one of the worst things that happen in sports, they shouldn’t get cover because they negotiated a CBA that allowed them to be cheaper.

ObiOneKenobae | Knicks

2 | an hour ago

Just because these guys are rich doesn’t mean they can all spend hundreds of millions more with ease. Dolan isn’t exactly known to be a cheap owner.

And I think it really needs to be understood. We are not talking about the Knicks being forced to blow up a team. The entire core is here to stay. We’re talking about whether they bring back a player that narrowly beat out his tryout competition to make the roster, and a guy that played 13MPG in the playoffs whose health is eternally in question.

I would hate to lose Mitch and Shamet, they’re awesome players that you can trust to make some gamechanging plays. But I get that there are more affordable options out there, and I get that retaining them probably isn’t worth potentially 100M in taxes while (more importantly) locking the team out of any future moves.

MuchAbouAboutNothing | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

Every front office, from OKC to Boston to the Knicks have all been making moves to delay the tax, avoid the tax, duck under the repeater. None of them will want that because they aren’t in the business of lighting money on fire. If the repeater means you’re paying hundreds of millions extra for players that barely see the floor, then no front office will sign off on that. No matter how much we want to go full “eat the rich”, they’ll never act like money is meaningless.

But that’s the point of the CBA, without an explicit hard cap, they’ve set an effective hard cap. The knicks will have a hard time turning a chip into a dynasty because the NBA doesn’t want that. Parity is a feature, not a bug.

Salty_Raspberry656

6 | 3 hours ago

honestly they should, for example okc just had 850 out of 900 million of their new arena funded by tax payers.

Theres a reason why valuations have now lined up to 6 billion. Not only is there off court revenue models, the new tv deals nearly pay the salaries themselves before gate and other revenue streams.

In a case with the knicks, where they also own their own media, they pay to run back their team in their prime that is a proven product, they get out of tax next year to avoid draft penalties it really is worth while in this rare case

SeaworthinessSome454

0 | 4 hours ago

Okc was set to be far further into the tax than the Knicks would be and okc’s outlook (spending wise) is going to get much more as SGAs extension kicks in. Meanwhile the Knicks have guys (like KAT and hart) who very likely will sign extensions for a lower AAV but more years. The Knicks could go over the second apron for one year and then be back under by next year, without losing anyone. Going deep into the second apron is just the new normal for okc if they want to keep everyone.

dreamvomit | Knicks

-1 | 3 hours ago

If Dolan wasnt a fucking moron he would be happy to pay it. If it gives the knicks the best chance at another finals run? Bro gotta be taking in $100m+ for each game of the finals with how much tickets cost not to mention the obscene amount of merch fans are buying. Jalen Brunson took a huge paycut to give the knicks the flexibility to pay their other guys, and now Dolan isn’t holding up his end of the bargain. If I were brunson I’d be fucking livid.

Jack12404 | Bucks

18 | 4 hours ago

They also have draft penalties too. If a team remains over the second apron for 3 out of 5 seasons, their next 1st round draft pick is moved to the end of the round regardless of their standings.

Edit: Misunderstood the comment, my bad.

key_abduction | Knicks

17 | 4 hours ago

The Knicks dont have to do that. The goal isnt to add more players, just keep the current squad together for 1 or 2 more years.

Frequent_Read_7636

1 | an hour ago

That’s not how contracts work, think about it. If you extend Mitch, Shamet, and Alvardo this offseason to 2-3 year deals. Within these next 2-3 years, they’re going to have to extend KAT, Hart, and Bridges. Which means, you’re going to move further down the second apron, because everyone is going to want more money. At that point, you’re going to have to decide whether to trade your starters or not resign them because of the extensions we are talking about this offseason, otherwise you don’t get out of the second apron.

byteturtle | Suns

7 | 4 hours ago

You only have draft penalties if you are over the 2nd apron, which I mentioned fucking team building and isn’t what I was talking about. You can pay the repeater tax without ever going over the second apron

Nuclearsunburn | Heat

2 | 3 hours ago

If you owe an unprotected first or pick swap to another team….just saying

Chao-Z | Knicks

2 | 2 hours ago

Even if it’s not you paying the bill, it’s not hard to see why even billionaires would balk at the idea of shelling out an extra nearly $100m/yr in penalties just to keep the team’s backup center.

The value isn’t there.

MuchAbouAboutNothing | Thunder

1 | an hour ago

It makes no sense, the penalties are so punitive.

I see people mention the warriors as if this CBA doesn’t have hugely amplified repeater taxes

AllDayEnJay | Nets

1 | 3 hours ago

Those checks add up no matter how rich someone is.

Thunder just cut $200m of Luxury Tax this Offseason by trading away Isiah Joe and Wiggins.

Billionaires aren’t fond of giving away hundreds of millions every year if they can go another route.

I’m sure Dolan is thinking that Leon Rose should be a good enough GM to navigate the financials without the 2nd Apron penalties and find some diamonds in the rough on cheap team friendly deals.

byteturtle | Suns

2 | 3 hours ago

What I’m talking about has nothing to do with the second apron, they don’t need to go over the second apron at all. We’re talking about repeater tax penalties which again, does not penalize team building other than how much the owner has to spend.

They aren’t giving away the money, theyre reinvesting it in their asset that is worth billions of dollars.

Also OKC’s tax situation and the Knicks tax situation are completely different and non comparable. The Knicks window is considerably shorter, no one is saying they should be paying the repeater tax for the next decade but they should absolutely be paying it for the next couple of years because a window like this may not come around for another 50 years if at all.

TannerGlassMVP

1 | 2 hours ago

I honestly don’t think I have seen a single Knicks fan say we shouldn’t do anything because of the repeater tax

byteturtle | Suns

1 | an hour ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1uitagw/comment/ouisxrk/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

I’ve mostly been hearing about it from the celtics fans when I tell them they don’t have to trade Brown for salary reasons because theyre not close to the 2nd apron and they go “but but the repeater tax”

TannerGlassMVP

1 | an hour ago

Ah yeah idk about Celtics people

Stunning_Stop4463

1 | 2 hours ago

Nosebleeds went for thousands of dollars during the finals run. Stop making excuses for a multibillionaire being cheap.

Dav1dDC

1 | 2 hours ago

This.

Julio_Freeman | Hawks

1 | an hour ago

No one cares about the owner’s wallet, but they know most owners aren’t going to pay it. So you have to “worry” about how it affects team-building in that sense.

not_so_bueno | Rockets

0 | 4 hours ago

The owners wallet which decides how willing he is to spend on players.

byteturtle | Suns

3 | 3 hours ago

Im sorry but I don’t give a shit about any owners wallet, most of them are sitting on assets worth BILLIONS of dollars and we have seen time and time again that the best way to increase the value of your team is to have a competitive team which requires paying players.

If you own an NBA team and you aren’t willing to pay extra when they JUST won a championship and are in the middle of a contention window that could never come around again, you shouldn’t own a team.

not_so_bueno | Rockets

0 | 3 hours ago

What part of my post made it look like I care about the Epstein Islanders?

terrybrugehiplo | Bulls

-1 | an hour ago

Why are fans so worried?

Because owners will force their GM to gut their team to stay under the tax.

What don’t you get about that?

byteturtle | Suns

0 | an hour ago

What do you think is going to happen to this Knicks team in a couple of years?

All their best players are in there primes RIGHT NOW and they have the best chance to win RIGHT NOW. Every team gets gutted eventually, every core runs its course. Nobody is saying “pay the repeater tax for the next decade” but acting like having to pay it for a year or two is such an egregious thing is just making excuses for billionaire owners to be cheap.

terrybrugehiplo | Bulls

1 | 14 minutes ago

We’re all about to find out. But I think players will get traded. Just like the Celtics are doing with Brown.

terrybrugehiplo | Bulls

1 | 13 minutes ago

Also, im not making an excuse for the owners. I want them to pay it. The fact is very few owners will pay it.

I have zero control over that.

Salty_Raspberry656

13 | 3 hours ago

Knicks are a rare case where its worth to do this season. They have a proven product, the margins of winning were very small, the depth they had was integral. they can bring all of them back and are on tradeable contracts. Meaning they can look to get uunder it next season.

The only issues this season would be trade limitations, but given they have their ten deep lineup its worth just going at it with this team and not needing that

then the other ramifications for the drafts are if you are in it ³⁄₅ years to which they can get under next year and let this team that still has everyone in their prime return and bring it back.

they print money, have their own tv station, this is the one time they can just pay for it

joshuads | Bucks

5 | 3 hours ago

It would be worth if those FAs would sign one year deals. But you are locking yourself into years of trouble.

Salty_Raspberry656

1 | 3 hours ago

we have cases of celtics, thunder getting tens of millions under the cap with trades. Mitch robinson isnt going to get more than mid level, which makes him still very tradeable even if its a 3 year. Jose’s multi year is tradeable, shamet. none of these guys are going to command enough to be difficult trades next summer

so thats what I meant. Its a rare case where there starters are locked in, their bench and the margins of victory were integral and they are very hard to replace both in experience vets who contribute and work with the cohesion of the team. they will all be offloadable contracts in this case.

bring everyone back in their prime, making the 2nd apron trade issues gone.

then can off load next summer or next to avoid draft issues

I am surprised bc Dolan has always been a spender but perhaps this is their billionaire principle the owners agreed on

Deep_Explanation9962 | Nuggets

99 | 4 hours ago

If there’s ever a time to go into the second apron, it’s just after you won a championship

oochiewallyWallyserb | Knicks

43 | 4 hours ago

Yeah for 1 year it’s not that horrible. 2 years in a row is horrible.

johnhenryirons | Knicks

24 | 4 hours ago

someone pointed out that with brunson and KAT’s upcoming extensions plus OG, they may be saving going into the second apron until Brunson is paid his actual worth…but that seems kinda silly because you just won with this squad and running it back would be likely your best chance to win again.

Clocktopu5 | NBA

3 | an hour ago

IDK if that wisdom holds true now, past several years we think we see a dynasty in the making only to crown a new champ.

NYJets18 | Knicks

13 | 4 hours ago

I don’t think it’s even 2 in a row. It’s 2 times in a 5 year span

oochiewallyWallyserb | Knicks

8 | 4 hours ago

Yeah so doing it the year after a ring to try and run it back seems like the only acceptable time to do it. It’s a lot of money but he said he’d write checks. The amount of money he made this off of this season I’m sure more than covers this bill.

NYJets18 | Knicks

9 | 4 hours ago

KAT and Brunson will need to be extended soon. That would be the year to do it. Otherwise they will need to probably get rid of OG and Bridges to keep them

PlasticPresentation1

2 | 3 hours ago

cant see KAT being paid more than his current contract regardless

oochiewallyWallyserb | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Nah they taking discounts, right? Right? 😭 😭 😭 😭

Salty_Raspberry656

1 | 3 hours ago

this is the year to do it. They essentialyl were losing most of the series in the finals, thats how thin the margins were. Speaking to the depth of team that those 8-10 mintues are nearly a quarter of keeping it close, when a lot of benches for other teams lose the margins and you never have the opportunity for the clutch

this is a rare case of everyone is in their prime, they have a chance to repeat and bring everyone back so they don’t need to worry about trade issues with the 2nd apron. They can work at getting out of it next summer given the draft ramifications. Its a rare time to go all in now to repeat. The guys will be older, less deep later and less important to pay up

__STOOLKRAKEN | Celtics

6 | 3 hours ago

2 in 5 years is the limit before Count Silver starts moving your picks to the end of the first round

TiddiesAnonymous | Germany

2 | 4 hours ago

A lot of these teams would trade that pick if they could too lol

ObiOneKenobae | Knicks

4 | 4 hours ago

I don’t think they value Mitch and Shamet over keeping the core together longer.

siphillis | Spurs

2 | 3 hours ago

Depth is a major reason they beat the Spurs. Get rid of a few key bench players and that series likely flips

ObiOneKenobae | Knicks

3 | 39 minutes ago

I don’t think the Knicks need to lose depth. They have a bunch of young players they’ve been developing and the Mitch they won with was playing at like 40% of his normal level anyway. I hope we can find a way to bring Shamet back, but he’s also someone who barely made the roster after very competitive preseason tryouts last year. I’m fine trusting the FO to find that again if they have to.

Agreeable_Mind9218 | Knicks

2 | 4 hours ago

Not for Robinson and Shamet

PuffyVatty | Lakers

2 | 2 hours ago

This is the only reason the second apron exists though. Something for owners to hide behind as an excuse to save money

ShawshankException | Knicks

1 | an hour ago

Not if you’re going into the second apron to retain an extremely injury prone backup center

InformalWinner4813

1 | 24 minutes ago

My thoughts exactly. You have a team that just won the whole thing, spend to keep it together.

FudgerBoi | Spurs

42 | 4 hours ago

Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made a Great Point

for_fun_88 | Knicks

8 | 4 hours ago

Never thought I’d be siding with a Spurs fan

Mr_E_Nigma_Solver | Tampa Bay Raptors

7 | 4 hours ago

What about a friend?

for_fun_88 | Knicks

3 | 4 hours ago

Ayyy. I could do that

Vast-Treat-9677

3 | 4 hours ago

And my bow….

Salty_Raspberry656

9 | 3 hours ago

whats a great point? they might be the rare case that they should pay in this case.

They have all their players in the prime. They can bring back a proven product to try to repeat during that prime. having access to bring the entirety of the rotation back means the 2nd apron issues for trading don’t apply.

then they have a chance to get out of it next summer to avoid the ³⁄₅ years that would cost them draft issues. Its wrothwhile

dreamvomit | Knicks

6 | 3 hours ago

But it’s not a good point? There’s essentially no penalty for going into the apron for a year. They could get back under next year. It’s just cash out of Dolan’s pocket (which grew tremendously during the playoff run).

The_MadStork | NYK

33 | 4 hours ago

I also remember reading this two weeks ago

RobbobertoBuii | Knicks

6 | 4 hours ago

this post has more ‘context’ in regards to Dolan’s comments about the 2nd Apron compared to past submissions (3rd sentence)

Good-Ant6859 | Thunder

1 | 3 hours ago

You know the post links an article right?

NYJets18 | Knicks

11 | 4 hours ago

It’s so clear the majority of people have no idea what going over the 2nd apron does for a team. It’s not just you have to spend more once you’re over. It severely limits your ability to do anything

Salty_Raspberry656

5 | 3 hours ago

yes, but it is a rare case where its justified here.

Their entire team is in their prime ages still, they just proved that the depth was integral and that they are a proven product together. They have a chance to bring em all back and try while they are in their primes

the 2nd apron limits their ability to trade and maneuver, which is not applicable given they have the entire rotatoin back so thats worth the risk.

they can then maneuver next year out as the draft implications of the 2nd apron only apply for being in it after multiple years.

so this is a rare time to just go for it for one year

0siris0 | Thunder

2 | 3 hours ago

I agree, people focus way too much on the luxury tax angle and not the punitive aspects on team building. It’s just lazy “dunking” on one of the least relevant aspects of the second apron, which is the tax, especially for the big market teams that make enough overall revenue to cover tax bills.

But here the issue is…he’s not willing to go into the second apron, *ever*? You basically need to be in the second apron for three out of four years for the genuinely punitive penalties are imposed. You can be in it for two out of four years. You may have some limitations for being in the second apron in any given year, but the bad things about it are 3 out of 4, not 2 out of 4.

Now maybe the Knicks are worried about not having the ability to get out of the second apron by year 3, because they’ve used all their picks to acquire their team. Best way to shed salary is to attach picks. So if they had surplus picks, maybe they’re comfortable being in the apron two years with the confidence they can get out by year three because they have the assets to get teams to take their least wanted salary(ies).

siphillis | Spurs

1 | 3 hours ago

Sure, but the Knicks also don’t have much to do. They have a championship-caliber roster. The East is not meaningfully improving. They can absolutely run it back and see if the West can mount a challenge this season

Far_Impress1986

7 | 4 hours ago

The second apron was supposed to punish superteams, but now it feels like it’s punishing teams that actually draft and build contenders.

nbaistheworst

7 | 3 hours ago

Who on the championship Knicks team did the Knicks draft?

The_Ashtronaut

3 | 3 hours ago

Mitchell Robinson

beefJeRKy-LB | Lebanon

2 | 2 hours ago

Maybe the restrictions can be given one extra grace period year? Would allow teams to dip in and out

ObiOneKenobae | Knicks

6 | 4 hours ago

This is from like 2 weeks ago

ACW1129 | Wizards

4 | 4 hours ago

Why did they institute this apron shit? The simple cap and luxury tax was much simpler.

bkk_startups | Knicks

9 | 4 hours ago

They want a hard-cap to prevent a Warriors style KD dynasty.

ACW1129 | Wizards

2 | 4 hours ago

Makes sense. Why not just institute a single hard cap instead of whatever this apron shit is?

bkk_startups | Knicks

3 | 4 hours ago

I agree with you. The NBA loves overcomplicating things like this.

Mr_E_Nigma_Solver | Tampa Bay Raptors

2 | 4 hours ago

So the owners can take more and spend less.

theblue_spirit_

2 | 4 hours ago

See also: 8 champions in 8 years. Parity. Competitive balance. Among other things.

guimontag

5 | 3 hours ago

Bro the league had already had 6 different champs in 6 years when they implemented it lmao

Dispinplush

2 | 4 hours ago

Sounds like participation trophies , here everyone have a chip cause we can’t build rosters that last 4 to 5 years anymore, franchise that build good rosters should be rewarded for doing it, not crippled, people are going to look back at these teams and be like who the fuck was on that championship team cause their identities get wiped away so fast

collin2387 | Pacers

1 | 3 hours ago

Rather the current system than handing out trophies to the team who is just willing to spend the most money.

token711 | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

Sounds like you’d love the MLB, brother

Nearby_Ad9439

2 | 4 hours ago

Before the luxury tax wasn’t punitive enough. The richest owners would just pay it. So there wasn’t much of a cap. Pro sports are better when they have a hard cap. Period point blank.

The owners & players association agreed to this current apron system in 23.

Now I’m sure Knicks fans reading this comment are mad because this is their time but it’s really best for the league to more of an NFL model (the owners couldn’t get a hard cap but this a way around it basically implementing it) with parody.

The Knicks built the best team and they won. If we were in the old system, they would have just lost to some team with 3 superstars happily playing the luxury tax.

Now the Knicks just like everybody else has to do it again. Draft, make trades. Do it again.

The league has never been in a better spot as far as everybody having a fair shot at it.

Knickstape08 | NYK

1 | 4 hours ago

It’s to keep teams from hogging all the good players. The NBA wants talent to be spread out.

silliputti0907 | NBA

4 | 4 hours ago

Anyone mad at Dolan about this is being irrational. Its a no-brainer to not choose to pay an extra 100 mill to keep a role player

Makaveli84 | Lakers

-2 | 4 hours ago

It’s not about a role player, it’s about the core, the base that function and brought the title.

peanut-britle-latte | Knicks

10 | 4 hours ago

The entire starting 5 is under contract…

Jonny_Qball | Pistons

2 | 3 hours ago

We’re talking about Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet not Brunson/Bridges/OG/KAT/Hart

silliputti0907 | NBA

1 | 3 hours ago

Mitchell robinson and Landry are valued members, but core?

imamistake420 | Raptors

3 | 3 hours ago

PSA: If you start a post with James Dolan on: or James Dolan says: or James Dolan: or Dolan:, and it isn’t followed by quits, sells the team or dies… you’re getting downvoted by me.

ThinkSoftware | Hawks

3 | 3 hours ago

I’ll do anything for love (but I won’t do that)

IsolatedBanana

3 | 3 hours ago

And this is why baseball players will not agree to a cap. Owner admitting he would spend more money “if he could” but his “hands are tied” poor, poor owner.

Dark_Christina | Knicks

2 | 4 hours ago

Fuck James Dolan.

Gold-Information-701

2 | 4 hours ago

When even billionaire owners are calling the second apron suicidal, you know the league may have overcorrected.

The_Captain_Planet22 | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

Why? Billionaires are some of the cheapest mf around.

dreamvomit | Knicks

1 | 3 hours ago

Right? You don’t become a billionaire by rewarding your players and fans. You become a billionaire by being handed billions of dollars by your daddy, spending it only on pet projects and investments guaranteed to grow your bottom line at any ethical cost, and not donating any of it to charity.

Salty_Raspberry656

0 | 3 hours ago

the league didn’t overcorrect

the owners basically aligned team building with their wallets so they have no pressure to spend above that. It serves as a hard cap and theres a reason now valuations have doubled and theres a line to get in the nba business

in fact this is one of the rare cases where going into the 2nd apron for one year would make sense or be justified for knicks

Buduma | Nuggets

2 | 4 hours ago

As a nugget fan, I too understand how difficult winning a chip with terrible ownership actually is.

Shebalied | Cavaliers

1 | 2 hours ago

This is what crazy knicks fans won’t understand. The nuggest were so good the year after but had a lot of bad luck. The knicks fans are going to feel pain next year lol.

Buduma | Nuggets

1 | an hour ago

It’s a long ass fall from the top for sure.. lol

Shebalied | Cavaliers

1 | an hour ago

There are so many teams like the Knicks were. Just think about those Heat teams which made the finals lol. That is going to be the knicks. Because they were just the same, played their best basketball at the right time and did not have any bad luck. IE their main stars miss the playoffs due to injury.

DangoRangusss

2 | 4 hours ago

so you’re saying you CAN’T write a check as big as possible

P5Manchero

2 | 3 hours ago

The second apron only hurts if you don’t have a good enough team and need to make moves to improve. It makes no sense to weaken a championship team strictly to avoid the second apron.

LVRaiders2026

2 | 3 hours ago

I will say, Lacob and Warriors ownership will absolutely pay whatever tax if they genuinely think they can win a championship. For a few years we were paying more in tax than salary cap. In ‘22 when we won it we paid 180m in tax, so after we won it they kept paying the high bill for a few years hoping to squeeze another one out. I remember at one point our total spending was almost 400m a few years ago and they were seriously contemplating going higher. Warriors ownership has paid $750m in luxury tax alone over the years.

693275001

2 | 3 hours ago

Rip Knicks dynasty 2026-2026

jawndell

2 | 3 hours ago

I hate Dolan as a Knicks fan, but spending money was never his issue. It was getting involved in basketball decisions and surrounding himself with yes-men. He throw money at bad players and force GMs to get players that he thought were good (when they weren’t). He overpaid for has been coaches too.

Babosmarach666

2 | an hour ago

I bet he was the loudest proponent of second apron during CBA negotiations. Together with Stan Kroenke and Tom Dundon, better known as El Cheapo

scalem0ss

1 | 4 hours ago

So there’s a fire sale for Shamet and Robinson.

Way to broadcast that to the other 31 teams.

Homie is the gift that keeps on giving.

PkmnMstr10

2 | 4 hours ago

29*

nath999

1 | 4 hours ago

He’s right though, the second apron is crippling.

DarthGringotts | Celtics

1 | 4 hours ago

It’s not only about the check but the roster-building penalties that come with being in the second apron

chief1555 | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

He’s right that the second apron makes building a team much more difficult but you can see from a mile away that he’s going to underinvest in this team and then shrug his shoulders and say “oh well, second apron, what can you do?”

peanut-britle-latte | Knicks

5 | 4 hours ago

Dolan has never been shy about spending money. I don’t know why Knicks fans keep thinking this is a cheap move.

Salty_Raspberry656

1 | 3 hours ago

its still odd to justify. I agree he’s always spent, so not sure why he won’t

as in the 2nd apron trade ramifications are not as important to them given they have a chance to bring back their entire deep rotation , in their prime, that just won a title and every margin of benefit was important in their depth to do so.

They can then trade em off next season to avoid the draft penalties which are more important for the future but don’t apply to them uunless they are in the 2nd apron multiple years

its a rare case of they should pay this year

chief1555 | Knicks

0 | 4 hours ago

I can’t speak for anyone else but personally it’s just a distrust of James Dolan. If Leon Rose tells him to go into the second apron, he shouldn’t second guess him.

iyyiben | Washington Bullets

1 | 4 hours ago

Actually weird to say you’ll spend whatever money but overrule the front office on the 2nd apron stuff that just affects roster building

Mr_E_Nigma_Solver | Tampa Bay Raptors

1 | 4 hours ago

Dolan is one of the worst and pettiest people and owners around. He’s correct about this though, the Knicks need flexibility to survive any unforeseen future scenarios. Going into the second apron would sacrifice said flexibility. Although, it is worrisome that he’s been this active and talkative about the team. It sounds like he’s back to meddling in team affairs, which history has repeatedly proven is bad for the team.

Interesting_Prune513 | Heat

1 | 4 hours ago

Mitchell Robinson is GONE

chrysanthemum_beer

1 | 4 hours ago

A broken clock is right twice a day. This is where Dolan is correct.

Technician-Temporary | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

He’s back

Vast-Treat-9677

1 | 4 hours ago

Mitch was a good Knick and really contributed to that title. Mitch is also injured…. A lot. He’s a very good bench/role player, but they can’t pay him what he’ll get somewhere else.

Acceptable loss for a title team. Core stays together, resign Carlos at a team friendly number because he loves NY, find guys to give you what Shamet and Mitch did. Hope you get lucky next year and the core stays healthy again while the new guys plug and play.

Salty_Raspberry656

1 | 3 hours ago

you just won’t find what mitch did, he was excellent at particular things of need and allowed a diverse attack and bringing in elite boards, more possessions, as well as a domminant pnr numbers. Injury risk and all

but they have a rare time where they can bring the entire rotation, in their prime, of a proven contention team. They can get out of the tax next year and the trade ramifications don’t apply this year given they have a set team. Then get out next year before draft issues and its a fair case of paying it this year

PkmnMstr10

1 | 3 hours ago

Obviously it would be Dolan who’d speak negatively about it, the 2nd apron hurts big market teams like his and he isn’t afraid to be the 1 in a 29-1 vote.

Low-Syllabub-3547 | Knicks

1 | 3 hours ago

I mean, you know it’s bad when Dolan won’t do it.

Dolan is a lot of things I don’t like personally about him as a Knicks fan, but cheap isn’t one of them.

Aziz3w | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

This why the owners pushed for the 2nd Apron, to say I’ll pay as much as the team needs but we can’t go above the 2nd Apron, so it doesn’t make them the bad guys.

Phenomenal2313 | Raptors

1 | 3 hours ago

I think they’re running it back potentially one last time before the extensions kick in for multiple guys ; with a very different bench

Whatever the result of next season is , someone from the Knicks starting 5 is probably on the move

DanTheMan14331 | Knicks

1 | 3 hours ago

It’s not suicidal to go into the second apron when your team is already fully assembled and everyone is in the middle of their primes

Shebalied | Cavaliers

-2 | 2 hours ago

Let’s be real the Knicks are not likely to do what they did this year for next year. If he is smart he would blow it up. There has been ZERO team on the eastcoast to do that unless they had someone named Lebron James.

Boston was / is a much better team than the knicks and look how many times they did back 2 back.

__STOOLKRAKEN | Celtics

1 | 3 hours ago

I wonder if Dolan knows that going into second apron doesn’t actually carry any inherent financial penalties.

OGraya

1 | 2 hours ago

This was like 2 weeks ago

Ma_Pies

1 | an hour ago

Why go into the second apron when you can use that money for side deals with players and have no repercussions?

GrapTops

1 | an hour ago

“I can do anything except that.” He’s still a clown

Broke_Banker01 | Bucks

1 | an hour ago

2nd apron makes it so essentially your roster day 1 is your playoff roster.

If you do it, you better make sure you have the depth for any and all injuries.

Bucks had to give up a 1st and take on Kuz just to get out of the 2nd apron.

thetruephysic

1 | 43 minutes ago

Man, the responses to this post drive home how crafty the owners are in insulating themselves from the consequences of their own greed.

Who do you think gave us the second apron? A small group of owners like James Dolan, to make sure they collectively wouldn’t be tempted to spend too much money! And now he’s talking about it like some god-given rule that’s been imposed on him, and everyone’s like, damn, James Dolan makes a decent point.

Cue the Tim Robinson “we’re trying to find the guy who did this” meme, good lord.

AlphakirA | Knicks

1 | 31 minutes ago

Very old news story

sdrj77 | Knicks

1 | 12 minutes ago

Breaking News: This is exactly what the second apron was designed to do.

The second apron is the only reason the Wolves traded Towns to the Knicks in the first place.

Nobody wants to go there. Dolan just said the quiet part out loud.

UgIyLoneIyBIackLoser

0 | 4 hours ago

#STFU DOLAN EAT A BAG O DICKS

LegitimateMoney00 | Knicks

0 | 4 hours ago

All the Knicks fans who just found out about the second apron a week ago are exposing themselves as bandwagons anytime they attack Dolan over this.

johnhenryirons | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Going into it this year isn’t that awful of an idea since we just won with this team as constructed. Replacing Mitch + Shamet won’t be easy to do while staying under the 2nd apron. The real issue is going into the 2nd apron multiple years in a 5 year span.

LegitimateMoney00 | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

If someone gets injured, the season’s done.

The second apron completely restricts your roster flexibility. For example, if we were in the second apron last season, Jose Alvarado would have never been able to join the team.

Then you have the matter of the entire starting five alone is going to put us in the second apron over the next two years, players are expected to take pay cuts in order for the team to stay together. We need to minimize those pay cuts as much as possible in order to make them at least sound somewhat viable. There’s a big difference between asking KAT to take a 10M pay cut and a 5M pay cut per year.

johnhenryirons | Knicks

0 | 3 hours ago

If someone gets injured, the season’s done.

This can happen with or without the second apron restrictions.

The second apron completely restricts your roster flexibility. For example, if we were in the second apron last season, Jose Alvarado would have never been able to join the team.

Right. But the thought is that the roster as constructed has enough pieces to contend again, even with injuries to role players. I get the desire to have flexibility though.

Based on reporting, it seems that the FO fully expected to go into the second apron this year until Dolan said that shit publicly.

I also think Aller has the smarts to get us out of the second apron if needed next season. Will be curious if we trade Dadiet to offload salary or any other moves around the edges.

mikesh8rp | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Yeah, this is the issue with signing Mitch now for a big, multi-year deal. I think the plan was always to dip in and dip out, but Mitch staying healthy-ish and doing well against Wemby has driven his price up. Maybe they can get creative with the upcoming KAT and Hart contracts, but that’s not a guarantee, and signing Mitch puts them on a path to either be in the second apron for a while or have to deal a more major piece to how the team works.

MajesticAnimator456 | Celtics

-1 | 4 hours ago

Why does everyone here care so much about James Dolan’s wallet. Weird as fuck to cheer on the hoarding of wealth, especially in this context…bootlickers

CloudySkies64 | CLE

2 | 3 hours ago

You lose picks and draft flexibility being in the 2nd apron as well.

Salty_Raspberry656

2 | 3 hours ago

no, you only lose it after a ³⁄₅ years of the 2nd apron

meaning he can bring the entire rotation back, which is in their prime, of a championship team not needing the trade ramifications of the 2nd apron, and then get out next year and not worry about it

this is a rare case where knicks should do it

MajesticAnimator456 | Celtics

0 | 3 hours ago

Ooooh nooooo they won’t be able to draft at the end of the rounds, with the most meaningless draft picks in sports. This is why there’s no great teams in the NBA. Greedy POS owners.

Acet14

0 | 3 hours ago

Bro….you charge anyone in the lower bowl 20 consecutive years worth of repeater tax second apron prices. You can spare some of it. Your dad did the same with Cablevision prices. So now when you can flip some of that to tip things in our teams’ favor, now you have pause?

Either_Imagination_9 | Knicks

-1 | 4 hours ago

Shut the fuck up Dolan

burns_before_reading | Knicks

8 | 4 hours ago

He’s right though

for_fun_88 | Knicks

0 | 4 hours ago

One of the very rare times he’s not totally wrong or tone deaf (literally or figuratively)

OhhhTAINTedCruuuuz | Knicks

-1 | 4 hours ago

lol not sure that had anything to do with what he said, just a reflexive STFU at the mere sight of his name

Either_Imagination_9 | Knicks

2 | 3 hours ago

You get it

gawinniwag | Knicks

1 | 4 hours ago

Seriously. The correct response is “Leon built the team and I’ll support whatever he thinks is necessary”

thetalkinghawk | Thunder

0 | 4 hours ago

Scared money don’t make none.

legend023 | Pelicans

5 | 4 hours ago

The Thunder are trading solid role players for hand sanitizer to avoid the second apron

No_Diver_629

0 | 4 hours ago

This season OKC is doing the right thing. Paying 130 million to keep Joe and Wigz that barely play in the play off and takes development minutes during the regular season is the right move.

Dort i am more split on, the ceiling probably becomes higher with him but the floor becomes lower and he is the main culture bearer. But Ajay/Cason will split up his minutes and let Stirtz get some reps.

So this year is the smart move to pay 50 mill in Luxury tax than the 220 mil they would have paid by doing nothing.

Next year is the year OKC have to prove the point.

thetalkinghawk | Thunder

0 | 4 hours ago

OKC drafted two players and then got rid of two players to make roster space, what are you talking about

SpiritFantastic4835 | Lakers

1 | 4 hours ago

You’re about to lose Dort for nothing LMAO

thetalkinghawk | Thunder

-1 | 4 hours ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if OKC stayed above the apron this season. Shedding $20 million in cap to save $140 million in tax is different than “desperately trying to get under the apron”

Beautiful_Ninja | Nets

0 | 4 hours ago

It’s the Knicks dude, MSG was full when they were Ass Ass for the better part of the last 20 years.

TruWarierRecords | CHI

-2 | 4 hours ago

Heartbreaking, the worst person you know just made a good point

DangerousKick5792 | Raptors

-2 | 4 hours ago

Moneygrubbing while owning the Knicks is ridiculous. You can spare some cash Dolan the team doesn’t need many trades.

GrowthApart2220

2 | 4 hours ago

The 2nd apron severely restricts your ability to make moves, it’s not just a matter of the cash.

James Dolan on the second apron - “There’s certain things in the NBA that you’d have to be suicidal to do.. One of them is called the second apron. We cannot go into the second apron. I’ll write as big of a check as possible, but I can’t write a check that goes into the second apron.”

Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made a Great Point