[7 PM in Brooklyn] Carmelo says analytics should only be used for role players not stars taking 20+ shots night, says the stats and data can’t really know how he played without the eye test
Lol
Melo is just improving the analytics argument by commenting this
Yes. He needs to sit this one out.
I don’t even dislike Carmelo but this is like the worst input I’ve seen on the topic.
Carmelo probably thinks Cam Thomas is a star.
Muh 20 PPG
Deep stats weren’t bad to prime Melo tbh, statistically around top 15 for most of his career.
Melo really suffers from the fact that he was extremely good at what everyone thought were the best things a star could do when he was 19, and then being 30 when everyone figured out that actually we had been playing kind of stupid since the 3pt line got introduced.
Id still take the 20⁄20 prime Howard even with a 4 pt line at the logo
Howard was in the top 5 of MVP voting, 1st team All NBA, and 1st team All Defense for 5 straight years! The fact that both of them started their down turns as the Heatles dominated the culture, right as HD highlights were taking off, and their careers probably lasted a little too long. Perfect storm where all the readily available stuff is not that great.
Yep, what yr talking about is a good example of why even modern camera tracking analytics are flawed. It doesn’t account for whether a player is making bad decisions or doing as they’re told by the coaching game plan. For example not stepping up to a player on the 3pt line is most understood in these models as leaving a player wide open - even if the plan was to, say, put a sub par defender who drives the offense on a non shooter and telling him not to close out to conserve energy. Melo was coached a certain way and played a certain way, it’s hard to seperste the two and we can not know how he wouldve played with different coaching.
Melo was in the same draft class as LeBron, Bosh, and Wade, all of whom were willing to play team ball and adapt their games to what was required of them.
Melo was not willing to do the same his entire career. Stop making excuses for him.
It’s not making excuses. Melo was a star and hall of famer but even at the time he was never considered the best. His 6 all-nbas and no 1st teams reflect that! I take real issue with people acting like he was trash, he was doing what a star player was supposed to do in that era. Those 3 teaming up to make it easy was just as judged as Melo wanting to get to New York to be the guy while gutting the team.
Bro even late in his career he wasn’t willing to play team ball, he always thought he was the guy. It’s why his career ended a bit earlier than it probably should have.
Unless it was the Olympics. Olympics Melo was his best possible form.
I sports hate melo so much lol. This just reaffirms what his critics say - dude just wants to iso ball and dribble the air outta the ball 50 times a game and doesnt give a shit about team ball
It’s been a long time since I looked and I don’t want to set up a stathead account just for this, but I did a dive one time on who in the NBA ever really sustained a .30 USG and .580 or better TS% that wasn’t primarily an on the block post up the player before the analytics revolution kicked in around 2014. The whole list if I remember right is MJ, LeBron, Bird, Gervin, and Dirk.
That’s the inverse and negative use of the analytics though.
Teams use analytics to plan for future games. They don’t really care about retrospectively evaluating a player’s ranking.
Melo had the skills to be considered in the same discussions at LeBron/Wade when it comes to his career. However, he was unable to adapt and was not a team player.
Instead, his career is going to be remembered in the tier of the TMacs, which is not a bad thing because it’s a HoF career but that’s why he now won’t even be considered the best Knick or Nugget in the modern era. I’d say there is a strong argument , Melo could probably even be argued to not be top 3 on either Knicks and Nuggets since the 2003s.
Brunson and Jokic take the #1 spot.
KAT in his short time with NYK has probably done more for the franchise than Melo. You could even potentially make an argument for OG (not right now, but if he keeps this up for another 4-5 years, by the end of his career).
For the Nuggets, maybe if Murray plays up to his peak level more often, you put him above Melo too … if Gordon wasn’t injury plagued, he could pass him too.
Melo was a good NCAA player to watch but horribly frustrating NBA player to watch. Not sure if it was because no one was telling him about how he was a bad team player and killed the clock for shitty shots or if he just refused to listen.
I agree. Also, people wanted him to be LeBron’s rival. Like a spiritual successor to Bird and Magic.
Melo was a very good player. Hall of famer and around top 10 for most seasons of his prime imo.
Funniest person to say smth like thie
“They shouldn’t track stats in closeout games” -Harden
“The combine shouldn’t measure weight.” -Zion
BF% is irrelevant - Zion
“games should be around 44 minutes at most” - the Spurs
He’s been working hard recently to improve his image instead of himself
Person with terrible analytics says analytics dont show how good he was Ugly man says it’s what’s inside that counts
Person with terrible analytics says analytics dont show how good he was
Ugly man says it’s what’s inside that counts
Lmao even
The cope is crazy
This reminds me of that Game of Zones episode, where Melo is literally complaining about analytics.
“But it’s merely a pumpfake”
“I bring the ball down step OVER the line and back down the big for a contested two from the elbow”
Come on, Chris. You know he can hit that shot all day.
Its not about hitting shots its about hitting EFFICIENT shots
STARS SHOULD BE STARTERS
I miss that show
It’s a shame that it’s ultimate act of parody was to also end disappointingly years before it should have.
Wow. Well done.
Can you imagine the material they would’ve been able to use with Wemby?
Honestly, you cant set it up better than with Ser Duncan the Tall. Does that make Wemby to be Egg?
Stephon of Castle, the Harpers, it practically writes itself
Kornet the virtuous
Game of Zones should have continued forever. Everyone loved it
I can’t remember, why did that stop?
No more game of thrones to parody is my understanding, it stopped around the same time the show did
No, it stopped because the brothers who made it wanted to move on to a different project.
a damn shame they haven’t brought it back with the house of dragons/zones spinoff continuation
Man that show is the GOAT man. Why does it have to end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SGvnwsbf88
I was just watching that episode. They got that shit on Hulu now lol
I imagine carmelo would say that lol
I’d imagine a 40 year old would have enough self awareness to sit this one out
Crazy too cause self awareness has always been melo’s strong suit
You joke but he did make huge strides in order to accept his role as a backup once he was out of the league for a year.
Guess he’s relapsing on his BS though
Hey P! They said I gotta come off the bench!
Yeah, once he was out of the league for a year. Dude thought he was still a star in OKC.
If he had some self awareness in NY maybe the Knicks could’ve made an actual playoff run
It seems to have been a temporary change too. The guy was so out of the league he had to go on ESPN with SAS of all people to try and convince teams he was all grown up now.
This is Melo we talkin’ bout. He’s a line stepper, a HABITUAL line stepper!
So we had to check him?
Every now and then
I miss Charlie.
He would’ve murdered in this era of podcasts
Lebron said the same thing on mind the game podcast.
And so did KD when he was on Mind the Game
lmao i’d also be super against analytics if I played as inefficiently as Melo did
Ehh, yes and no. The key factor nobody talks about is that the Warriors introduced the efficiency era into the NBA about a decade back. So Melo was not especially inefficient for the era he played his prime in but would be considered very inefficient for modern basketball.
Melo actually makes a great point that would sadly apply to prior eras of basketball and not now. That it becomes harder and harder to make baskets as you increase volume and so jobs were specialized and players had specific roles. His role, high volume scorer, needed to keep the team in the game by scoring constantly. So it was ok to be less efficient so long as he could get buckets. In contrast a role player who was expected to mostly defend or provide offensive support would need to be especially efficient bc they’re only getting fewer looks and needed to make them count.
Modern basketball wants everyone to be able to shoot, pass, rebound, and switch roles as needed. There are few if any specialists anymore and most teams want dynamic players who can do many functions on the court. This means everyone needs to be efficient, defend, rebound, pass, etc. So Melo’s view is accurate to the era he remembers, but not really to the modern era.
One day the next generation will look back on this era as the Stone Age. For example, if the peak KD Warriors were in the 2025-26 season they’d have the worst ranked offense in the league.
Love me some Melo. Of god… I just realized I didn’t check if it was LaMelo ball or Carmelo.
Broadly, sure, I agree. However, Carmelo was frequently at the bottom of the list of top-10 ppg scorers in the league in efficiency. His non-big contemporaries were Kobe, KD, Dwyane Wade, Derrick Rose, Monta Ellis, and Danny Granger before the Warriors came into power, and his efficiency was far closer to Monta and Granger than KD and DWade.
Lastly, the kind of basketball Melo’s teams played were largely dictated by Melo, and the teams he played on building around him. I think you saw a melting away of those specialist roles as he came into his prime. The 7 Seconds or Less Suns started to revolutionalize this in the mid 2000s, with the Spurs starting to embrace it too, and I’d argue it caught on en masse starting with the Heatles. Melo was in his prime during all this, and I would argue that Melo’s teams and Melo himself got left behind as this was all happening. Melo was not interested in adapting, so neither were his Nuggets or Knicks. And that’s kinda why I think he gets left behind.
I don’t think you guys understood how hard it was to score in this era. It’s not even a nostalgia thing, it’s literally that you had two bigs so close to the paint for both teams you had to get yours in different ways.
Why do people get so pissy about analytics like the two greatest players ever dont also happen to have the two best analytical profiles ever? if ur actually good you will have good advanced stats
Jaylen Brown’s analytics is such a fascinating case to me and it just became a big talking point because he’s on the market right now.
How do his stats look?
epm puts him at slightly better than trae young this last season
^ #56 in the NBA for clarity
But why is he ranked and viewed soo poorly analytically?
High turnovers, low assists, good scoring but through high volume.
Likes to take tough shots, not a good playmaker, not elite defender, not an elite rebounder
Like with a lot of controversial topics, his advanced stats aren’t useless but not everything
I passionately hate rebounding as an advanced stat. There is not 9 guys going for the rebound and the best rebounder getting it. There is so many factors for rebounding, it’s really pointless to deep analyze them. I have to admit though I am not up to date on the latest 3 letter rebounding stats. If they take into consideration:
I’ve seen it put like this in Seth Partnow’s book:
In the NBA, there is something like a floor-level of team rebounds that any team will manage to come away with in a given game. They’re almost “free” so to speak, and the number of free ones tends to be around 30.
The rebounds your team grabs above the number of “free” ones are what are statistically relevant. You look at the rebounding numbers greater than what’s considered free, and you look at the difference in team rebounding rates when players are on/off the floor, and you get an idea of what players are providing value at rebounding - grabbing the ones that aren’t free.
There’s also spacial tracking data that looks at how close other players were to the player that came down with the rebound (grabbing contested rebounds vs. Ones that sort of just found a player).
But also keep in mind with a lot of analytics is tha these are in-house findings. You can’t find this on basketball reference or with a membership to some of these other advanced stat sites. They have access to info we as members of the public don’t have.
I’m not picking on you but people asked why some are “against” analytics and this is a great example. And I say this as someone who’s quite scientifically literate.
So someone quotes a stat that I assume most people don’t know (epm?) compares some unstated value to another player and makes no further conclusion.
In critical thinking you just need to ask the “why” questions. Why is EPM relevant? What is it supposed to illustrate in this case? If it is high or low, is there some feature of the statistics that might explain why it’s high or low? How usual is it to be like this and do other players show similar trends?
And on and on.
The problem with a lot of analytics is that people basically use it like religion. It needs critical thinking and explanation.
NBA teams use their own analytics, and I’d guess the reason there’s no deal yet is their’s also don’t think he’s worth the price the Celtics are asking.
That’s injured trae young too. He’s normally much higher in epm. If you watched trae at all this year he was absolutely not himself in the limited minutes he did play.
he had a worse total epm than injured trae young and a worse defensive epm than luka who was depressed for like 2 months
Offensive epm has him at +2.3 which is in the range of players like chet, darius garland, naw, fox, murphy, porzingis, ag, kat while hes -0.1 on defense which is similar to luka, vj edgecomb, jabari smith, jalen johnson, desmond bane
And some other advanced stats, that are in most cases better (multi year RAPM is basically as good as you can get) dislike him even more.
like if you look at epm last season the top 5 or 6 are who you would expect like its not a hot take to say the best players in the nba are wemby jokic sga Giannis luka and kawhi maybe kawhi is a little out there but not by much
Fully healthy Kawhi is a top 5 player
yeah he clearly was but i could see that being the most controversial one
What? Kawhi averaginh 28 on elite efficiency in just 32 minutes a game while still being a good defender. Not to mention he has a +15 on off.
It’s also a little chicken or the egg no? If my statistical model doesn’t have MJ and Lebron at the top, then I gotta cook up something different because nobody will be taking it seriously.
Not really. In offense, Curry is at the top a lot. Most advanced stats now involve impact and With-Or-Without-You stats.
Only basketball reference does this shit by actively changing their numbers especially during the 2017 Westbrook year.
Then when the models says Russell Westbrook has the goat season they change the model lol. So analytics has never been shy about admitting error.
And that was one specific model from bball reference that has never been particularly good
Or when the the analytics say Derrick white or Josh Hart are better that Jaylen brown, or Luka
There is massive place for that type of analysis in the league but it goes too far sometimes
Except Jokic, Wembanyama, SGA, Curry, LeBron or even prime 25 fga/gm Harden were analytics darlings.
bro even luka had a great epm this season for all the discourse around him being a chucker
LaMelo Ball is the most notorious shot chucker in the league and was only behind Jokic and Luka in terms of offensive EPM last season
Its not just about shooting efficiently
You forgot Shai
I think that’s the issue with his argument. He probably is thinking of “simple” analytics. The kind that in a vacuum reward efficiency over all else.
Trae is normally pretty high in offensive EPM and he is not an efficient shooter.
Trae is elite at getting to the line and knocking them down and playmaking
Right. So it’s not just in high volume low efficiency that gets hurt by analytics. It’s if that’s all you do.
Facts. If Melo was elite at something else (playmaking or defense) his advanced stats would be amazing but he was instead pretty one dimensional. He has to be one of the most overrated names in the sport.
I mean Luka was waaay above the average TS% I’m pretty sure. It’s funny how the guys can watch the majority of stars shy away from long 2s, take 50% of their shots from behind the arc and say analytics shouldn’t be used on them. Like Luka’s whole shot profile is an analytical dream, it’s 90% paint touches, FTs and 3s.
lukas paint efficiency has gone up like every year and his rim fg percent is so high that it feels fake so it dosent matter that he shoots 10 above the break 3s at barely above league average true shooting(this is still very good because usually above the break 3s are horrible shots)
Kobe Bryant all fans suspiciously quiet lol.
Kobe is highly rated in analytics lol
What yall got on the eye test for melo?
Great at tough shots, not great at generating/finding easy shots, mediocre perimeter defender but good in the post
Ball stopper also.
Yeah he’d rather score 30 and lose than 20 and win. He just wanted to be out there playing street ball
Would also rather score 20 on tough shots than 30 on easy shots
Lets not bring analytics into this
Lamelo in shambles
LaMelo is the opposite of a ball stopper lmao
Lamelo is the ball
LaMelo Ball
Very good rebounder. Ball stopper that makes it hard for teammates to get involved
It would be great to collect some data on this and use that data to inform decisions!
He settled for a lot of difficult contested shots. Has a reputation for being one of the most complete scorers ever, but what differentiates him from the actual best is their ability to generate high percentage looks consistently. He also didn’t do a good job leveraging the defensive attention that he got to generate open looks for his teammates. Not an instinctive passer out of doubles.
He was never good enough to be the number one on a title team for this reason. Well unless that team surrounded him with absolutely ideal conditions + he got a ton of injury luck, which obviously didn’t happen. But when he bought into a system and you paired him with a strong lead guard who took away play initiating responsibilities away from him he was pretty valuable offensively. And when he moved to power forward for the Knicks he was pretty hard for defenders to deal with due to the mismatches. At least in the regular season.
Good positional rebounder. Really went after it on the offensive glass. Tough player, really competitive. Fought hard as a post defender (which made his switch to PF good for him). Quick hands, swipes would knock the ball out of players hands a lot and he didn’t foul a ton while doing so which was good. but on the perimeter he wasn’t good as he didn’t fight through screens well and didn’t have the quickness to switch well. And his help awareness wasn’t great.
Overall you have a star offensive player who was undeniably a valuable cog but never lived up to his reputation as this all world offensive engine due to his expansive “bag”. Career outlook would have been better served if he took a backseat in offensive priority to other creators.
Edit: forgot to add, pretty good at limiting turnovers. He was definitely a “ball hog” in terms of using possessions but he didn’t waste a lot of time with long size up dribbles. Quick decision maker in mid post.
I’ll also add that he wasn’t a great finisher. Smoked a lot of layups. Sometimes he got offensive rebounds off them because of his great second jump, but that erratic finishing is a reason his scoring is tiers below the best in terms of effectiveness.
When I think of a player who had a similar skillset to Carmelo except just better at it, and a better physical profile and a better fit to all sorts of lineups and surrounding casts, I think of Dirk Nowitzki.
Never thought I’d see the day someone would give an actual unbiased and fair analysis of Melo. Probably helps to have actually watched him unlike most people here
I did “grow up” in the era in which he was a star so that certainly helped. Followed him for a long time. Played with the Nuggets on 2k because of him and Billups.
Not a fan per se but I respect what he contributed to the game, flaws and all.
The 08-09 Nuggets with Billups, Melo, Birdman, Nene, Kenyon Martin, and fairly young JR Smith was a fun watch.
As a big Melo fan, this is a very fair and great analysis of him. I want to throw in his second jump was elite and in today’s age of flopping, Melo almost never flopped
I held on to the good memories of the 2013 Knicks. This brought it back into perspective
I agree with your assessment of Carmelo, but I feel like players like him, Kobe, and Iverson get unfairly cirticized for being inefficient chuckers. That was the role that teams wanted them to play against the rules and style of play of that time. I believe all three would easily have more efficient numbers and higher assists in today’s league. Wonder how he would adjust his game with the extra steps, spacing, and faster pace.
The reason he made the switch to pf was that the frontcourt got smaller and everyone was playing stretch 4’s and 5s. Him and LeBron were both sf and switched to pf around the same time, when small ball became the trend.
I mean, AI averaged over 6 assists a game. Kobe averaged just under 5. Melo averaged 2.7. These things are not the same.
Unlike Kobe and AI, Melo played like half of his career in the modern era, and still didn’t switch his play style up or substantially take a backseat until he got to Portland.
He was kind of washed by then. Can still get buckets, but not at the level he once could, and didn’t bring much else. His best statistical season was when he first moved to the 4, then he slowed down. I think he’s just a tier or two behind AI and Kobe.
It was definitely a different era, but also as someone who got into analytics and being a forum nerd early (before this sub existed) those guys were all on the nerds shitlist back then even for their era. It’s not like people didn’t know. And I know at least 2 of the people I regularly interacted with on those forums ended up working for the Raptors and Mavs in the late 2000s/early 2010s, so it wasn’t just hypothetical internet l nerdery.
Public enemy number one was Monta by the way lmao. Monta have it all. Very early career Steph vs Monta discourse was legendary.
Great analysis. I really thought he was going to transition well into a support role when he went to the Thunder. Still a bit surprised that failed as hard as it did.
Well unless that team surrounded him with absolutely ideal conditions + he got a ton of injury luck, which obviously didn’t happen.
That 09 team that made the conference finals was pretty close. They were fun to watch.
Such a fun team. Fond memories of the Birdman/Nene/Martin front court.
Nailed it
Best pro-Melo argument I can make is that if he’d played PF for 15 years, maybe he sneaks a title like Dirk - in terms of being a mercurial offensive PF - with the right supporting cast and a break or two in terms of injured opponents (fairly common), but he woulda needed superb teammates to do what Dirk did and just crush a bunch of talented, healthy teams in one playoff run.
Ultimately, I can’t really blame him for thinking he was a SF. It’s his coaches job to realize he didn’t pass or defend the perimeter well enough to play SF on D and the extra ball movement of one more perimeter player helps on O too.
Jab step, jab step, dribble, pick up dribble, jab step, jab step, inefficient mid-range jumper.
Selfish and lazy. I don’t even care what his stats or anything other experience is; when laid down on the court for 2 or 3 possessions I knew this dude would never win anything
I remember when the Mavericks put that Dirk fadeaway drawing on their court that someone said the Nuggets should put a chalk outline of Carmelo on theirs in the shape of him laying there. I laughed quite hard.
Great scorer, but did not play winning bball
When Denver traded him for Galinari + Wilson Chandler they got better not worse
I wouldn’t say they were better, they remained as a 1st round exit type of team so about the same.
Well the exit was because Gallo tore his ACL and the rest of the team was beaten up if I remember correctly
Or when Denver acquired Chauncey, suddenly they had the leadership and execution to be a top 4 team. With Carmelo and other good players, the team was lost.
Shot lots of contested long/mid rang 2’s. Posted pretty average points per possession numbers.
He’s Alex English with a lot more fans
Super powered Rui Hachimura
EYETEST ™️ (“Errant Yoking Elevates The Egositical Shot Taker”) is a well-known analytic. It is calculated easily: FGA - AST. Carmelo was on leaderboards for this as early as 2012-2013, fending off players like Kobe Bryant, who passed the ball too much to be in Carmelo’s EYETEST tier.
Great ISO scorer. Full stop.
Alright man
Exactly.
Carmelo still thinks the way he played was more about winning than getting his 20+ points each night. He still doesn’t get it.
Maybe he believes that him scoring 30 points is the key to winning hahaha
Actually, the opposite. Often, the role players aren’t getting enough exposure to produce enough data to be worth examining. The data is much more relevant for the stars who get consistent exposure.
Eye test does matter. But the stats and the eye test agree that Melo played selfishly.
I have to agree here. Many times the role players come in at garbage time when the game is already decided and the other team has pull their starters. How you gonna glean anything from that?
Carmelo is 100% correct actually imo. The problem is the eye test also shows that he is not as impactful as his scoring numbers.
like contrary to what the stats say, Isaiah Hartenstein is not actually better than Anthony Edwards, but they are correct to highlight that Hartenstein is one of the most impactful role players in the NBA.
Not 100% but there sure are levels to that. Basically analytics are punishing mistakes, but you want your star player to not be afraid of commiting them.
Example: Knicks in this run.
By analytics Brunson was clear third best on the team and clearly was worse than OG. But if you watch the games, OG tended to dissappear after mistakes, passing ball despite good position etc. Resulting even in Knicks losing possesion alltogether due to shotclock violation.
In this situation Brunson, who even with bad shooting night, was clearly better. Because if needed he did took these hard shots. Heck, that’s how we got OG tip in: Brunson hard shot because that was only option he really had which didn’t run the clock.
He has some validity to what he’s saying if og was number 1 option and had to take 20 shots and destroy his efficiency his epm would plummet. He’s benefitting like crazy on the efficiency side bc brunson is the number 1 option.
Fair points. I think it gets more interesting when you’re constructing a championship roster. Lots of guys can score in the league and loads more in the g league can pour it on as well.
Advanced stats don’t make it on the highlight reel but u can bet it’s got its fingerprints all over the rosters of championship teams
Honestly the problem is that so many people swing hard one way or the other on this issue. Analytics are useful tools, but don’t tell the whole story. I don’t know why this opinion is so hard for a lot of people to land on.
Low key efficiency is for role players.
Efficient role players wouldn’t be as efficient without stars emptying the clip
And the best stars are also efficient players even though they have to take harder shots and/or generate more of their own looks
No that’s ridiculous. The more efficient a star is the less wasted possessions, the more defensive attention they attract, the more impactful they are on the floor. The logic doesn’t break down if you play a different role.
High key, missing shots is bad for everyone. Given their supporting casts, who would you say had more success, Carmelo Anthony or Reggie Miller?
Reggie Miller has been to the Finals as well as 5 ECF appearances. 76-68 playoff game record vs Carmelo’s 28-55.
Who had more success? Reggie Miller.
Yeah, the star drawing in the defense is to get the role players open to hit their shots. A star can get theirs whenever.
Except when that star then doesn’t pass to the open players you get Carmelo
That’s a completely separate conversation from efficency though.
it’s not. Choosing to take the bad shot instead of making the “right” call (passing to the open teammate) is what tanks your advanced analytics, and deservedly so.
Can we fast forward to the start of next season already?
Facts!
lmao
Eye test says pass the damn ball, Melo
That’s what a chucker would say
From 2006 to 2014, Melo’s average OBPM sat at +4.1, peaking at +5.3. Kobe’s peak year was 5.4. Firmly top 10 every one of those years.
For ORPM, prime Melo routinely hovered between +4.0 and +5.2 . Firmly top 10.
Further, whilst his ts℅ lagged behind other elite peers it was above average at 55℅ during his prime. An important thing about ball analytics, we look at TS% next to usage rate. Melos 31.5 percent rate is absurd.
The only players to average atleast 54℅ TS rate on 31 Percent usage are T Mac, Harden, KD, Steph, Giannis, Embiid, Luka, Kobe, D Wade, Shaq, LeBron and Michael Jordan.
And Carmelo Anthony.
I’m not even that high on him but ppl mocking his statement due to his late year efficiency don’t realise that analytics were usually pretty good to Melo.
Unfortunately most of this sub doesn’t watch basketball, and certainly a large majority didn’t watch basketball 20 years ago.
Melo was an absolute beast offensively and was routinely cited as being one of the hardest people to guard in the league, including by Kobe I believe.
I think his point, that star players who are expected to take more shots and harder shots are naturally going to be less efficient, is valid. The fact that guys like Jokic, Curry, etc were/are able to be efficient while handling the offensive load of a superstar just shows how great those players are, rather than invalidating Melo’s point.
His willingness to pass has been questioned for years. Way before moneyball
According to Iman Shumpert, Carmelo’s explanation for not passing was “I work on that.” Meaning he practices taking bad shots with multiple guys on him.
Also according to Chauncy Billups, Carmelo’s demeanor after a game was entirely dependent on his own point total. If the team lost he was still building everybody up as long as he had 30. If the team won he would be sulking if he had only 20.
Billups would never lie
lol he would like that
I think he’s kind of right! Lol
I’d use analytics to try to fill my roster and find opportunities, but I don’t need analytics to tell me if Jaylen Brown is a star
Boston are 31-4 the last 35 games Jaylen missed.
What was Boston’s record last season when Tatum was missing ?
7th best player on some teams Jaylen Brown?
This just in: players who score a lot of points on high volume and low efficiency think they are good, but they are not
The OG Jaylen Brown
Advanced stats like Melo much more than Brown
Not a bad comp to be honest. Better jumper and worse defense. Equally bad passers.
Analytics is like all fields. First some really smart people did groundbreaking work when nobody else thought of it. After that everyone flooded into it. But a lot of it is not innovative, misused, or overused.
Meanwhile the smart people who know a lot of math and are creative have moved onto something else. Maybe world event betting markets or something
I “KIND OF” understand, since Jalen Brunson was “inefficient” this year, yet him continue to put pressure on the offense created opportunities for his team. And then he took over in the fourth, possession by possession.
Carmelo Anthony of all people doesn’t like analytics? Color me shocked!
“Math don’t apply to me”
Hmm I wonder why he has that opinion
He’s right. Brunson literally did it this finals run. It aint easy being the guy
>sub that thrives on analytics conversation doesn’t like anti-analytic talk
Strap in for a more comments than upvotes yall
The eye test says you were a ball stopping shitty/lazy defending bad leader.
Melo might want to stick with the numbers, they treat him much better than the eye test.
I don’t think he is wrong but I also hate that people have this negative view of analytics. Eye test and analytics go hand in hand in my opinion.
Bunch of nerds on Reddit trying to speak down on the guy in the HOF with 28k points and top 15 all time scoring. “He didn’t win a championship! He’s a loser!” Lol right
“Don’t look at the analytics” says the man with bad analytics
Well of course he’d say that
Yeah analytics biggest flaw - larger sample sizes… lol
LMAO
He just can’t help himself.
The problem with the eye test is that its always just a few highlights people see. They never eye test a full game and actually break it down.
He would say that
This is exactly what I said. He stole my post https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/s/PvyeSEYDuv