[Bill Simmons Pod] Bill on trading for Giannis: “I understand it, I don’t agree with it … I’m not taking Giannis but also getting rid of Derrick White”
People will make fun of Bill but I get it. Brown has been there for 8 years? They’ve won a title with him and Tatum. It’s cool as a fan to have people long term on your team and be those all time guys. I get why Celtics fans right now are feeling some type of way.
10 years.
Holy fuck it’s been 10 years???
Brown 2016, Tatum 2017. I get it ultimately if brown gets traded but I’ve loved the continuity and slow building to a title, and will be very sad if/when the duo is finally broken up
Paul Pierce is my favorite Celtic of all time. I’m happy Danny turned him and KG into future picks. It’s the right move if you want to compete.
That’s a different situation, though.
Both Pierce and KG were on the downswing of their careers and it looked like our championship window with them was closing.
The former’s definitely not true with the Jays. The latter might arguably be, but you cold make a reasonable argument at other roster adjustments, too.
Also Ainge got a once in a lifetime offer from a dumbass Nets FO lol
Tatum and Brown are both younger than Pierce was in 2008. Just a hilarious comp.
I was initially upset over the Kawhi/Derozan trade for basically similar reasons, but also because there were reports that Kawhi was like “Fuck Canada” as opposed to reports that Giannis will sign an extension.
I think the most important point is he doesn’t want to ship out derrick white too
reading between the lines, ship brown for giannis, sure, but you gotta keep white because tatum/giannis/white is basically a better version of the middleton/giannis/holiday championship team
Who is their Brook Lopez?
luka garza?
jkjk, idk good q. you def need a shooting big next to giannis
its better if you are considering Gianni’s as Gianni’s and not considering 2021 Gianni’s vs 2027 giannis
I think so. I actually don’t think giannis has fallen off much if at all (health depending, maybe that’s too big of a caveat, but when healthy I think giannis is as good as ever)
In my mind its just that the bucks are going to over value giannis and under value brown in any trade they do as they expect to suck next year.. when Brown should be pretty close to a 1 for 1 swap with giannis right now trade value wise when you look at number of years on contract, injury history, age,
That’s the Celtics fans overvaluing Brown and undervaluing Giannis. Browns best year is one of Giannis’s worst. He’s a different caliber player.
No one is arguing that brown is a better player.. Peak Giannis clears peak brown… But what you actually get out of brown can very well be more then what you ACTUALLY get out of giannis, with his 1 year deal and injury history.. Giannis has not had a healthy season in like 4 years?
Giannis hasn’t played fewer than 60 games any season until last season, which was a lot of the bucks holding him out. Giannis has reportedly said he would re-sign with either Boston or Miami, which means it’ll be 5 years. And again, Brown’s best season last year would be a disappointment from Giannis. So yeah, Giannis has more value. It’s not going to be a 1 for 1 swap because of that.
Ok gafford for giannis straight up who says no? Coop need friends
I don’t think there is any scenario besides injury, which is not even in Browns favor the last 4 years, where what you get out of him is remotely close to what you get out of Giannis.
Brown is one of the most overvalued players in the league according to all of the advanced metrics and if the Celts could find a way to get off his contract it would be such a big deal for the team.
People now talk about Giannis like he’s AD or Embiid. Giannis has played 60+ games every single year since 2013, except this one, with the Bucks sitting him near the end of the season, or he would have played 50.
His playoff injuries were bad luck, he’s not John Wall - see Kevin Love trying to draw a charge or that freak injury vs the Hawks.
Brown is 2 years younger, and people talk like Giannis is 5+ years older.
No, it shouldn’t be a 1 for 1. It’s closer to Brown and 3FRPs for Giannis if we’re honest, since Giannis will sign with you. I know we aren’t getting that return, but stop complaining. You’re giving up a top 15 guy for a top 3 guy who might actually be the best in the world when he’s healthy and you’re still complaining.
AD and Embiid have had bad injury luck too, but they still get all the negative effects that come with that. Giannis has those too now, that’s just how it is.
You’re delusional if you think brown and 3frp make sense, brown and 1frp is an over pay.
Brown is just as durable and has shown he can lead a team averaging over 28pts per season and he’s a better defender than Giannis while younger and longer on his contract.
Why the hell would the Celtics trade for an expiring and a hope that he resigns to give us the same output? Realistically Tatum is the heavy scorer and jb has been second.
So what exactly is Giannis giving us that we don’t basically already have with brown while having greater needs on the roster?
giannis gives you someone that would rather be on a contender than the hero of a playin team
And right now he’s someone who doesn’t want to play for his own team, not a ton of leverage for a team to demand a kings ransom on a guy who wants out of there
You’re right. That’s why to a lot of us we can see how dogshit the Miami offer is in comparison
No, it’s not even close to a 1 for 1 swap LOL
I don’t wanna do it bro, I just know Giannis gonna get hurt
Yeah I feel like this has “trades that in retrospect was terrible” all over it. But then again Jayson Tatum would be the best partner Giannis has ever had so who knows. If this was pre-new CBA, Giannis + Tatum + Brown would’ve been nasty
I wouldn’t just jump to that conclusion. He has less load to carry on offense is he plays for the Celtics.
If he’s playing center that’s a huge load defensively
You could regular season Wemby it though. 27-30 mpg
Would it be fulltime ? I assume it will only be for the playoffs or end of big games, like the bucks did in 2021 , going small with Giannis at the 5 Were their sure kill move.
Giannis/Tatum/Queta frontcourt would be pretty hilarious.
I think we bring back Vuc. As bad as he looked, alongside Giannis I think he’d be a lot better. And his defense wouldn’t matter as much.
I think both fan bases are scared about the same thing FWIW. It’s like that happy/sad old guy meme.
Is Point Guard not a concern for Boston if this trade goes through? You’re losing a really important ball handler in this trade. I know JT can be a kinda Point Forward, but if the Cs are gunna go deep, I dont think thats the role you want him playing.
I feel like with two players in JT and Giannis that handle the ball as much as they do, they don’t really need a traditional PG
Not having JB handle the ball will be a huge lift as well lmao
Tatum’s a great passer and so is Giannis. But I absolutely agree. PG is hard to find, only having Payton Pritchard would not be ideal. We’d also lack perimeter defense.
Both of them have injury history, might as well take the better one
JB and JT has always been durable wdym
Giannis has played more games than Brown in 4 of the last 6 seasons wdym
Including playoffs jyalens played like 40 or 50 more games. But sure I guess giannis playing 1 more regular season game for 2 years is the real difference maker
“In 4 of the last 6 season Giannis has played more games than Brown.”
TOTAL GAMES
2026: Brown 78, Giannis 36
2025: Brown 74, Giannis 67
2024: Brown 89, Giannis 73
2023: Brown 87, Giannis 66
2022: Brown 90, Giannis 79
2021: Brown 58, Giannis 82
2020: Brown 74, Giannis 72
2019: Brown 83, Giannis 87
2018: Brown 88, Giannis 83
2017: Brown 95, Giannis 86.
TOTAL: Jaylen 816, Giannis 731
Of regular season and playoff games that both were ELIGIBLE for the last 5 years:
Jaylen played 85.2% of games.
Giannis played 73.9% of games
I am aware Giannis is a much better player. But questioning his availability when considering splitting up a proven contender in terms of how it affects our timeline isnt as dumb as some of yall say.
Yes I know playoff wins are a team stat. Yes I know Jaylen has had better teams. But also, I know what it means to play more games and be available more often. Jaylen will be available for more games that he’s needed in than Giannis will for the remainder of both of their careers barring injuries.
Brown has been way way healthier than Giannis in playoffs though
JT literally just tore his Achilles
And came back faster than anyone else. Wdym?
other than that mrs Lincoln, how was the play?
Banger lmfao
Because he played too much
Giannis hasn’t been fully healthy for the last two years, and his game is going to age quicker than people thing. He mainly relies on athleticism, hasn’t developed a reliable jumpshot, can’t space the floor like a KAT, Wemby, Jokic does.
He always has been the 1A main guy, I also wonder how he will co exist with another superstar. I guess good thing for you guys is that Tatum is an standout professional and probably will look for a way to work with him.
Edit: Giannis has refused in the past to play center so I wonder how that will play out.
on the contrary, celtics are winning the ‘27 chip
First round exits again
Y’all are so close this is kinda ridiculous.
The Celtics have been perennial contenders with brown. This trade is only happening because brown knows his worth and isn’t interested in being second fiddle anymore
We got 1st rounded with Brown as the primary guy. If he wants to win he needs to be a second fiddle guy.
But he’s already won, so he might prefer being ‘the guy’ on a low seed playoff team and leaving early.
Jordan got first rounded til pip came. Nemster qouta didn’t know what to do with embiid not browns fault
Tatum makes a good Pippen.
He was out for game 7
He didn’t ask for the trade lmao
Knows his worth? He already has a max contract that will be paying him over 60 mil after next year amd will reach 65 mil in 2028. It’s not like he is being asked to take a pay cut. Just say the silent part out loud. He’s one of the Melo types that would be happier scoring 30/game and losing than low 20s and a ring.
boston getting off derick white will either be a very smart move or a very dumb move no in-between
Advanced stats thought very highly of him, but his shooting struggles last year and age are def concerning
Legit coin flip if I were in the Celtics FO.
A career good 3 point shooter and elite free throw shooter like Derrick white will bounce back. One season where he shot 32% from 3 on high volume doesn’t make him a bad shooter. Most likely outcome is that stabilizes back to normal.
the upside is getting off him before he becomes ass the downside is probably handing another team the final piece for their title
I think he can easily bounce back, but games 1-5 against Philly might be the worst shooting performance by a starter in a series in NBA history
Despite falling off on offense he was still all team 1st Defense
He’s probably washed.
i mean yeah that could easily be true he was awful v the 76ers but if he bounces back you will look real dumb
I mean, people were saying Jrue was washed when we acquired him, but he ended up being a key piece to a championship, and he’s still playing.
My fear is we offer what Shams said we offered for KD in 2022:
I don’t think there’s any way white is in the trade.
Man would be a crazy overpay.
White makes too much money the salaries wouldn’t match
I don’t believe anything Bill says regarding this whole Giannis fiasco.
why?
Bill is an extremely biased fan masquerading as a journalist, he will never agree on value of celtics and non-celtic players bc he’s not objective (and also not very good at evaluating talent…ie Derrick Williams over Kyrie)
but everything in the clip is just opinion. the only reporting he’s done (Celtics/Giannis interest) was correct
I loved you in Deep Blue Sea!!!!!!
He’s not a journalist though
He was literally one of the first to say Celtics are back in on giannis
I’m ngl, no way Derrick White is the obstacle to GIANNIS lmao.
i would not give up brown and white for giannis
That’s why you’re not a gm lol
you dont know that
Holy shit Scott Perry is that you?
IMO it is because Giannis and Tatum are useless if you take all the rest of the talent off the team. Going heavy win now only works if you have the pieces to make a run. If not your just Dame and Giannis pushing too hard, getting injured and wasting the end of your prime.
You think White and Brown aren’t more valuable than Giannis????
I am saying that Giannis is more valuable. Not just offense (which he is better than JB and Dwhite) but also defense.
he fell off… hard
He had one bad season, and on his advanced splits he is STILL the best defensive guard in the league. Wdym
People misunderstand who he is. He didn’t shoot the ball well, but is a good playmaker and doesn’t really turn the ball over. He is also a genuine rim protector from the guard position, which is like all time rare. Teams had a much lower rim frequency and rim % when he’s on the court, he swings this more than a lot of actual good rim protecting centers.
People are always confused why he grades out so high analytically, its because he is kind of a 1 of 1 rim protecting guard. Not saying he’s perfect or whether he should be in the Giannis trade, but just trying to add perspective on a unique player.
Who? Giannis? He averaged 30 on 60% fg and 65 games the last 3 seasons before the last season with injury lmaooo
naw, d-white
I agree with that!
Did bro watch derrick white this postseason
Did you watch Derrick white last postseason
I actually like derrick white but we’re talking about giannis bro
It’s not just Derrick White, it’s Brown + White + whatever else
Are you a celts fan? This come of so delusional lol
No, and I’d make the trade, but it’s understandable to be hesitant to trade too many key cogs for an injury prone Giannis regardless of how good he is. Depth has never been more in the NBA than it is currently.
Seriously. Being reticent about trading for a former MVP who is still a top 5 caliber player because you don’t want to give up a roleplayer who just shot you out of the playoffs is insane to me.
Heat fans know haha he’s the equivalent of Celtics Killer Khris Middleton.
He’s good but bill overrates him
the best defender on the team?
The celtics don’t need giannis, they just need to stop spamming 3’s when they aren’t falling.
This is the same with every team. Exhibit A from the Finals
Yeah but other teams seem to learn from it, joe just keeps doubling down
If Bill is talking this delusionally, it’s a done deal
He’s just pressed that his pet trade with the Pels isn’t going to happen most likely
On the pod, he had an off hand comment that made it seem already done in a separate segment
Every time someone posts a clip from the Bill Simmons podcast, the still makes it look like Bill is saying the dumbest shit you’ve ever heard and Zach is ready to take a long walk off a short pier.
What is the deal with D White being included? Haven’t seen that reported before and while his shooting isn’t an ideal fit, he’s a good connector. Seems like a dude that would help Giannis get the ball in the right spots.
It was Lowe throwing out a hypothetical to ask how much Simmons would include in addition to JB.
Not to mention his level of shot blocking at PG is completely irreplaceable, nobody else in the league at his position is even close
Seriously. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills seeing how people talk about the Buffalo. Dude’s defense is leagues better than just about any other guard. There is a reason Team USA wanted him. Yeah he had a rough shooting season (and was extremely high usage as a shooter which hurt him) but his defense cannot be understated.
I feel like people are willfully misunderstanding Bill’s point here. Which, you know, is what happens when you take clips out of context - but honestly it seems like people aren’t even listening to the clip.
There’s a vision for a championship team with Giannis, and that visions requires Derek White (assuming he’s not washed) or somebody like him. If you ship White out in the Giannis trade, you’re immediately in a position of needing to require his replacement to go toe-to-toe with the Knicks.
People are acting like Bill is saying “Derek White is untouchable.” He is very much not saying that.
(That being said, he’s way over-estimating JB’s value here).
Bill might get flamed for this take but he’s literally just most sports fans to ever exist. Once you get emotionally attached to certain players, you will refuse to allow them to be traded even if it’s for a much, MUCH better player. Derrick White has been so good for Boston and such an important player. He made such an important connection with that fan base.
I remember Laker fans not wanting to give up Lonzo Ball for Anthony Davis. If Giannis goes to Boston, the minute he puts up his first 30 point game he’ll forget it and talk about how this is the most excited he’s been for a Celtics season since 2008.
Lowe just admitedly pulls White’s name out of his ass lol, no one has ever said anything about him being in the offer/deal.
Id rather have this version of JB who’s never going to be Giannis, Obviously, than current Giannis who’s gonna be hurt a lot, and will probably be losing some of athleticism which is his greatest strength.
celtics winning it all if they get akumpo
This gonna look horrible when Gianni’s goes out and Achilles Tatum has to sit out for rest lol
“Prefontaine used to get on a motorcycle and have sex with Barbara Bowerman after sticking his penis in a waffle iron. “
I wouldn’t do Brown + White for Giannis, let alone adding a pick. White is one of the best defensive guards and one of the most additive players in the NBA. Yes he shot poorly last year and his scoring in general isn’t great, but he’s an All-Star caliber player. The only way you even entertain this a which I probably wouldn’t - is if you have a younger point guard or a clear path to getting one that will fill the shoes really well and without it cutting into your depth.
I think you people are really underestimating White or you’re somehow still stuck in the superteam era. Championship teams need great starters, great role players, and depth.
Hilarious when Bill and all the other Celtics fans thought they overpaid for Buffalo…
Okay, we’re not getting rid of Derrick White? Like that’s not a part of this at all
Yeah…how will they ever live without White and his knockdown shooting…lol.
Kawhi or Trey Murphy + Herb Jones aren’t really as good as Jaylen Brown, imo. Maybe the Trey+ Herb thing but that’s a lot of non shooters around Giannis
How are they getting Trey, Herb, and Giannis for JB and White?
math isn’t my strongest subject
White would be 2nd Team All NBA courtesy of the Boston Media Mafia if he didn’t forget how to shoot
Classic homer who thinks his team’s assets are always worth more than the other team’s assets. No chance in hell Milwaukee takes a 1 for 1 when the Heat are probably offering way more.
Why does every fucking person keep saying JB wants his own team, bro in China away from the noise he ain’t asking for shit
I have never understood the Derrick White hype.
White is a great defensive guard, especially in the team concept. He’s a good passer, good rebounder, and does a lot of the little things that matter. Think about all of the little plays that helped the Knicks win games, the deflected passes or the tough rebounds or the overlooks screens/pin downs, the hip checks on screens, etc. People fixate on stars but those little things add up immensely. And White is among the top 2-3 players in the league and those little things whole being a great defender. He’s an awesome starter to have.
you understand the ‘23 celtic, at that time, were statistically like the best team of all time? If youre doing by point differential and whatever else it is
as I began to explain my point, it didnt make as much sense as i thought it did. hmm