The NBA tried it for a couple of weeks and decided they couldn’t be bothered lmao

On one of the podcasts (maybe it was the mismatch) the answer is flopping points like flagrant points - after games you rack em up for flopping and eventually get suspended. Wouldn’t require refs to nail it in real time, but would eliminate it overnight

Must be a steeper penalty. You flop, it’s a tech. 2 flops, you out. Can be challenged.

Easy peasy.

The value of a successful flop is way higher in Football - penalty kick, free kick, yellow/red to opponent…. So it makes more sense to prioritize getting rid of it. 

The only reason why this was reviewed was because it led to a yellow card and under the new rules VAR can review yellows.

People underestimate how often players sell calls that ACTUALLY are legitimate. We all hear them say “yeah I sell calls sometimes” as some kind of admission of guilt to wanton flopping but the thing is in officiated sports like these you are going to get illegal actions committed against you that aren’t called on a constant basis and selling is a natural counter reaction.

We all see the big examples of stupid dives and flops that are nothing and decry them in outrage, but also forget the dozens of calls that happened beforehand where a player sold a call and he WAS getting fouled, actually.

Flopping happens in football and in basketball for the exact same reasons. There’s no objectively measurable way to call this. It’s all interpretation from refs. That means if you don’t do something to sway that subjectivity in your favor you’re going to get shit on.

I’ll give an example: How many times have we seen Wemby flop for no reason? You have specific examples in your head right now, right? Okay now tell me how many times have we seen him attempt to rebound with one hand because his other one is being illegally wrestled down by two people. This happens damn near every possession and it *never* gets called. Now it makes sense why he’s taking counter-measures and trying to get away with sneaky shit as well?

Every player in pro sports is playing two games at the same time. One is the actual sport, and another one is trying to get the ref to give them advantages. That goes in both directions, both offense and defense are doing this ALL the time.

What worked with this specific call was there was no contact at all so it was obvious. Every NBA play has contact so it’s not as straightforward.

TBH the way they use the VAR system seems like a way to fix a lot of the NBAs problems. It could shorten replays, deter flopping, handle out of bounds calls,.etc.

The truth is the NBA doesn’t have the guys to go after flopping bc it might make some players look bad.

The NBA would review for 5 minutes think of all the pros and cons and come up with the opposite.

If we did this for every call this sub thinks is a flop, games would take 5 hours. Soccer is way easier to officiate

Just put some draconian restrictions on the egregious ones and apply the penalties between games, have a point system and suspend players who are repeat offenders

NBA officiating is the worst of all professional sports, including soccer.

Soccers flopping problem is way worse than Basketballs.

also the automated offsides should easily work for things like automated out-of-bounds, so things like the Steph Castle incorrect whistle doesnt happen

could also work for automated goaltends to either track flight of ball or whether it hit backboard 1st, so things like Wemby’s game 1 vs the Timberwolves doesnt happen

They did it for 1 flop, 20 still went uncalled. I don’t think the example we should be using is soccer, hockey is the example. IMO the NBA doesn’t have a giant flopping problem, they have a giant embellishing problem. Usually there is contact, but the player sells it like crazy. Give both players a foul and move on.

Yup they do this in NHL too. If a player flops/dives they get called for an embellishment penalty. So it pretty much deters all flopping

Lol 30 seconds? They gave the free kick and play literally continued for another minute before they went back and changed it. Actually horrendous refereeing, what would’ve happened if paraguay scored? Paraguayan fans would’ve rightfully been pissed, and I’m saying that as a US fan.

Great idea mate, would love to introduce more 30 second timeouts into an already stupidly stop start game

Y’all are such drama queens

Hardest thing is that flopping like you see in soccer is actually quite rare (no contact at all— player falls down). That should definitely be a tech.

SGA has done that a few times, but most of the time it’s the Harden “fall down when shooting” (sometimes people fall down when shooting, sometimes it’s a flop) or an exaggeration (marginal graze of the face; flails back holding face) and there will be many overreactions.

Better solution (in my opinion) is add a ref or add video refs as well, but only call fouls when they actually see a foul, not based on the reaction.

The bigger issue is that there are almost 3-4 fouls everytime down the floor and the rules are basically we are only going to call one of those fouls every 2-3 minutes, so guys can get fouled 6-7 times in a row before getting a whistle

Silver has already come out and said that it’s not a priority and he considers “selling fouls” to be part of the game.

A huge issue is that refs miss so many calls that players feel like they have to sell the foul to get the refs attention and they’re right 

Oh yes, let’s model soccer to fix flopping

This only works if the officiating is fair.

Keep watching football, you’ll see that VAR is just another vector for corruption in the end.

I wonder how many fewer points James Harden would have

The NBA should be more like soccer!

--reddit

Did you watch the whole game though. They called one flop out of 100. The players act like they got shot any time the ball gets turned over. It’s unwatchable. Instead of one SGA it’s two whole teams full of him

It was one incident in one game, I don’t think flopping is fixed in either sport, calmate

I mean there are just so many fouls in the nba compared to any sport. 

I saw this happen. Well done Fifa.

not sure soccer is the shining example to be going with in terms of anti-flopping. it’s still very integral to the game. NHL however would make more sense. Bottom line, it’s cultural.

~40 foul calls in an average NBA game, ~14 rule infraction whistles in 48 minutes of a football (soccer) game. 

For soccer, the player has to have gone completely untouched to get the call. This won’t fix this subreddits complaints over flopping where most of the time there is contact.

Props to soccer for improving their game. Reminds me of baseball two.years ago improving their game by finally enforcing the pitch clock

Ha, I thought the same thing watching it.  Was like “this flop bullshit ruins the sports I watch, wait … they gave it to the other guy for flopping!?“  (Don’t watch soccer a lot)

It’s a double edged sword because refs in all sports already fuck up easier judgement calls lol.

All they have to do is to make challenges more like how they are in baseball. If you’re successful, you keep the challenge.

What really is the most mind blowing part about this is that the review time would be a great time to show a sports gambling ad.

The sad reality is that they know if they do this they cant rig the games anymore.

NBA refs have too big of an ego to let a replay review team make the calls. That’s the real issue. Every review takes 5 minutes no matter how simple of a call it is

end of quarter foul reviews by central nba. return from break with delay of game flopping technicals. two weeks and a much cleaner game

The referees are the medium through which NBA management can exert control over games. They have no intention to give it up.

Evidence to overturn in what appears to be a deceitful act isn’t something the nba cares about. They don’t want refs put in these types of situations after the fact 

It doesn’t even need to be a pause. Remote replay center currently re-evaluates toe-on-line 3s to 2s asynchronously. Could do the same for fouls. Just erase team+personal foul, erase FT points (if any), and assess a flop. 2 flops = 1 tech.

I personally feel the NBA is only about 20% as bad as soccer is. Like, it’s watchable, whereas soccer’s flopping is so bad I can’t even watch the sport. I agree that both would do well to implement this sort of system though.

Would this not just slow the game down even more? That’s what really makes games hard to watch.

The NBA can get rid of flopping in two weeks if they wanted. Hand out flopping techs and the coaches would start to tell their players to quit flopping. The NBA doesn’t care. Flopping and foul baiting leads to free throws which leads to more points. The NBA is all about scoring points. Adam Silver even said the NBA is a highlight league. What’s cooler? To check the box score and see that SGA got 35 points or 20? 

Needs to be in between games because the pace of scoring is much greater. I agree it should be a point system. Point per flop, 2 points = tech or something like that. Fines per flop tech that double after each incident. This is enough of a deterrent because nobody wants their best players unavailable for an important game and only stars could reasonably afford being a perpetual flopper. Do that, assess it’s effectiveness in the off-season and make tweaks to it.

I don’t understand why any review process needs to be funneled through the officials on the floor. Just have another couple of officials in a booth with all the camera feeds and all reviews would be nearly instantaneous.

The penalty for flopping (egregious throwing yourself on the floor from no contact/minimal contact) should be technical foul, free throws, possession, and a huge financial penalty.

Football is a completely different fault where a yellow card means much more than a foul. An actual equivalent would be flagrants and they more often than not review those.

I don’t think successful challenges should cost teams a challenge though, only unsuccessful ones.

How long are we gonna have these conversations? The NBA allows flopping. Period. They don’t care about viewer experience or game integrity, even if they should. Let’s stop whining and not watch the game if we don’t want to anymore.

video assistance referee is the key.
the off court referee watch the video feed and notify on court referees when they missed on hard fouls etc.

Ummmm I have a hunch after more than 2 days of World Cup we’re going to see they do not have a full grasp on a dive. As a casual fan half the headlines in the regular season that I see are x player taking a dive and getting away with it. Fifa isn’t La Liga or the Prem but these are the same players…

Difference here is there was literally zero contact. NBA players feel the contact and over exaggerate. Because of the amount of bodies in the paint, there’s usually at least some contact which makes it more of a judgment call whether the reaction was equal to the foul.

So the AFL, Australian Rules Football, does match review after every match. They are more like the NFL, one game per team weekly. But every player interaction in every game gets reviewed. They know a handful of refs can’t catch everything.

So the players play however they want, and on Monday the fines come. The players self-regulate and the game quality has risen greatly.

Flopping is still diabolical in soccer. But I agree it’s being called way less

Saw 10 times during the Canada game where they just looked at the floppee

I watched that game yesterday. It was nice not hearing a whistle every 5 seconds or having to wait thru a commercial for yet another challenge. If I understood soccer more or played it in high school I’d definitely be watching soccer and not the NBA.

Yeah that’s a good rule in theory but there’s still flopping in soccer games

The 2 major sports that Americans find the most boring, baseball and soccer, have both figured out ways to quickly and seamlessly integrate replays into the game to significantly improve them for the fans without holding things up. I have hopes that the NBA can also do this before the league’s 250th birthday.

Adam Silver is more corrupt than FIFA

The fans can help make the necessary changes happen, but they’re too busy spending their money on going to the game and all the officially licensed NBA merch. Why change things if the billionaire dollar company, the NBA is really getting your money???

You want change? Doing spend a single dollar in the NBA. Vote with your dollar.

OR

Just do as yer told and allow it to keep happening

I really would not model anti-flopping on soccer. Flopping is prolific and almost necessary because if you don’t sell the foul, you don’t get a call because the baseline “foul” reaction is you just got stabbed with a dagger.

In game management is nearly impossible. The game moves too fast. A yellow is a heavy punishment, so refs are reticent to use them if they are not 110% certain and that applies to VAR as well.

There should be post game review for contactless fouls in both sports and penalties applied going forward. Cumulative punishment, no resets.

Sport is not plagued by flopping. Did the Knicks and spurs flop their way to the finals? If anything they both beat the biggest floppers in the game in Harden/SGA.

Spurs Knicks has been one of the most physical and hardest fought series in a long time. It’s been fantastic to watch.

EDIT: there’s a problem and it’s being addressed. The sport is not plagued by it. That’s dramatic. NBA is great and the toughest sport to officiate

Flop = flagrant?

They should just make every play review able, kinda like college football. Replay has say 3 game minutes to make a determination on if a flop occurred. If it did then next stopped ball free throws for the other team. If the flop was awarded with a foul/free throws then take those off the board. Last 3 minutes reviews gotta happen in real time.

Yes Futbol punishes simulation heavy it’s hard to enforce that in the NBA bc players are soo good at initiating contact before embellishing

VAR is crap, they have it the premier league and never use it for these sorts of things.

You have witnessed the one time they use it correctly and it works.

Champions league final the other week had a controversial penalty decision ignored, had it gone to VAR it would have been a different game however the referee decided not to review it.

Very rarely do the referees actually review calls.

The issue isn’t the clear cut cases like in last nights FIFA game; but when someone someone gets lightly clipped on the elbow or has incidental contact in the lane but acts like they got shot with the artillery shell of an M1 Abrams.

By the letter of the law it is a foul, but the impact is so minor the players exaggerate the contact to make sure the refs call it. You can’t adjudicate that in a 30s slow-mo replay. Better if they would just call offensive fouls on the unnatural motions and not call defensive fouls when the offensive player initiates contact. Much easier for the refs to see in real time and would solve like 85% of the issue.

Won’t happen. Silver wants to protect his baby Shai.

If you think the NBA isn’t going to use the review time to shove 6-8 more commercials down your throat then you haven’t realized the real reason the reviews take so long.

I can’t even box score watch games now because there will be 8 reviews during the end of the game. They somehow managed to make an already grueling aspect of paying attention to an NBA game even worse with how exorbitantly long the reviews take.

Treat flopping like a technical, automatic free throw for the other team, plus possession after. Coaches will clean that shit up to right away.

I’ve only watched one game so far. Canada vs. Bosnia. It made me not want to complain about flopping in the NBA anymore, seeing how pervasive it is in soccer. Still agree on the flopping point system, but at least other sports have a worse flopping situation than basketball.

Get rid of flopping and stupid fouls. If you purposely foul off the ball the guy with the ball should shoot