[Murray] Jalen Brunson has as many turnovers (13) in this series as assists (13). And 82 points on 81 shots (37% FGs)
Shamet going 1⁄8 is another huge hole.
I mean tbf Shamet’s production was unsustainable. He was bound to have an off night at some point
[removed]
Jesus
He’s just rushing to get his shots off, something that’s a good thing when you’re on a streak but he’s cooled off and he needs some easy open looks to get him started.
He’s returned to the Shamet that the Suns knew
Fuck man I had hope every time he shot with us man, only to say DAMMIT SHAMET
Monty Williams smiling from the heavens above
Monty Williams is very much alive and wealthy
The bigger issue is that KAT only had 11 pts and Bridges went 1⁄5.
Some of it was their foul trouble but they were also 0/8 from three. Need a little more from them offensively and this is a Knicks win.
His minutes tonight were costly. Spurs went right at him on defense and he struggled at the other end as well. Rough -20 for him last night.
Crazy that the off game came at home
Clarkson and Hart shot well instead
Wish we saw more Clarkson tonight
I think y’all saw enough Clarkson. Yes, he banged a 3 and played some decent D, but he also made some boneheaded plays. Dude’s bball IQ is not it. From my POV, he was a net zero.
he’s a kickstarter type of player though, a lot of energy and drive. should get a few plays late if the offense looks sluggish (it did this game)
Agreed. He definitely can be a microwave player and bring a much needed punch, but I think that’s a double-edged sword with him because of a lower bball IQ. His energy can lead to unneeded turnovers and silly plays sometimes. Which we saw tonight.
Love him
It’s why the Knicks are so dangerous - but they need at least 3-5 significant contributors not just solid off the bench for a half. Hart was good in H1 and Clarkson hit a couple buckets in H2, but they needed a more consistent scorer, especially someone to take the load off of Brunson. The game really unravelled beginning of Q4 when they had all the fouls called and Brunson was on the bench.
That person is KAT, as we’ve seen through the first two games.
He’s not to the level where he’ll completely grab the game by the scruff of its neck unprompted, but if you play to his strengths, generally good things will happen. Brunson did play a good game tonight, but I think as a point guard, he could’ve done better to get his big man/2nd option involved more.
Definitely and need to run through Bridges a few buckets to get going. Bridges was loose in G2 and totally irrelevant in G3.
I felt like Bridges was the biggest problem for the Knicks tonight. 30 mins of nothing
Got taken out of rhythm early with those two quick fouls. It compounds when Deuce and Shamet offer nothing either
What gives me hope and confidence still is that I don’t think Bridges Deuce and Shamet are putting up a combined 5 points in a 4 point loss again
Massive problem. He’s basically the only one on the Knicks that makes fans livid when he gets in foul trouble. He’s good shooting some nights but where we’ve needed him most this series is on defense. Two quick cheap fouls tonight was unacceptable especially since he contributed next-to-nothing offensively.
He picked up 2 early fouls and had to sit most the 1st quarter. He also was on fire last game, tonight was the OG show, with Hart playing well early and a lil bit later on too.
Nothing but the best plus/minus. What a stat!
And yet led the team in +/-
why the knicks relying on shamet to score points lol
Mikal and KAT disappeared offensively tonight. Hart hit a bunch of 3s in the first half but did the Hart thing and just stopped taking them in the second
Harper shot terribly also
He is not a good 3P shooter yet, but good to see him taking open shots and not forcing them. OG is the Harper stopper though - the only one who blocks his drives and keeps him from scoring. I think he has blocked 3 of his drives this series (2 in G3), and on everyone else Harper just bodies them and lays it up softly.
Aimbot needs an update
he got hunted tonight on defense as well
Any team relying on shamet is in trouble
He just had too many min too
Averaged out with OG anunoby going nuclear
We can’t be blaming Shamet when your star has been shitting the bed 3 games straight.
He can’t be expected to play well every game. He is not a star.
so it begins
I mean he’s been ass. People just didn’t care cause the Knicks were winning
People don’t care because he’s been doing anything he can.
Steal last game.
Big 3 this game.
He doesn’t shy away from the big moments so you have to respect that but he has actually been bad for majority of these finals.
I’m sorry what? You think a 3 and a steal excuses what I believe is the worst finals efficiency for a 20+ ppg scorer in finals history?
No people have ignored it because the Knicks were up. Had he panted the exact same and the Knicks were down he’d be getting shredded well before this game
I’m gonna be honest - I ignored it because it feels like he hits every big shot in the fourth.
They’re all worth the same amount of points.
And this is why Brunson is overrated.
You replace Brunson with alot of starting pgs and this might not even be close. But that could be because they would pass to Kat more and wouldn’t shoot as much.
He’s only able to take those because the rest of the team kept them in the game.
Brunson is in his prime and has a team good enough to win. That’s what is frustrating.
That steal was by luck. He was in the right place. He didn’t do anything extraordinary
They’ve already been talking about his struggles, just before it was in the context of “Brunson isn’t the fmvp and here’s why”
Hes been having a bad series, this game didnt change that, it just continued the trend
Brunson isn’t the fmvp and here’s why
I mean, it’s true tho. So far Kat had a much bigger impact, especially the first 2 games
OG also a lot better
Game 1 he put up 30 shots with bad efficiency and guys were basically ready to hand him the fmvp for that 4th quarter. “everyone can be Brunson except when it’s time to be Brunson”. 30 shots in a non OT game is insane.
Averaging 27 shots through 3 games. There are Stephon Marbury’s everywhere for those with the eyes to see them.
He can distribute better but the shot making is just in line with what the Spurs game planned. A rotation od defensive guards plus Wemby guarding the paint, he was never going to do what he does against Philly. He does need to go to the two man game with KAT and trust other teammates.
Reddit discourse revolves around success. When you’re winning, you’re great and have aura. When you’re losing, you’re trash and you’re cringe. If the Knicks end up losing, Mike Brown is a terrible coach, KAT is soft and Brunson is too small. If they win, Mike Brown is actually a great coach that finally got a chance with a talented team, KAT has the heart of a champion and Brunson is the GOAT Knick.
This. The discourse sucks.
Yup and everything swings from game to game
It’s not just reddit discourse, media is the same. Just because they were up, people were talking about is Brunson better than Shai, better than Luka, GOAT Knick, most clutch player in the league, etc. I really like Brunson, but what are we doing? Also with Wemby, suddenly he is a bum because of 2 games and people were wrong for saying he might be the best right now. Like why don’t we see this series play out, maybe the guy will average 40 with his defense on top
When has he shot well this series? He’s been clutch enough but his overall shooting has been horrendous.
The pendulum swing after every single playoff loss this late in the season is so immense. Hopefully the Knicks snap out of it in game four
It’s like the world’s biggest set of those huge office ball clacker things every single game
Hopefully they lose so we can stop with the Knicks slurping
Has it? People were pointing this out before tonight. That’s why there was so much buzz for KAT as Finals MVP leader.
I think KAT has a case that his role as a Wemby counter is much more unique than Brunson’s role as a scorer. Brunson is a very very good scorer but there’s like 5 guys in the league that could be doing his job and the Knicks still win this series, I’m not sure there’s 5 bigs that match up against Wemby as well. But that’s not how FMVP is usually graded.
I mean they crowned him better than SGA after game 1, it should swing back to a more appropriate territory.
They called him the best player in the world after game 1 despite being mediocre except for 4 minutes.
He got exposed
bro thinks he is castle turning it over
😕 hey
He ain’t lying. Copying is the best form of flattery.
this is more of a reflection that the spurs guards have been straight up dawgs and hounding on brunson
For some reason the SAS guards and defense in general are never going to be credited when holding these star guards to sub par numbers… they just assume it has something to do with the player themselves (Shai, Brunson)
Just wild takes in this thread to me. The clutch 4th quarter shots alone make Brunson’s presence so valuable. And definitely, Spurs guards are fantastic defenders. They did a great job with SGA and continue to be effective for Brunson.
Brunson struggles because he is hounded whenever he gets the ball. Good, that should be exactly what the Knicks are planning for. They absolutely need him to continue attacking when he can so he can continue to create space for his other teammates. The bench shot what, 35%? And they lost by 4 points. Not saying I know how to fix this, but sitting your star player, PG, and leader does not seem correct.
he had 4 fouls they had to bench him
Castle makes about two really bad defensive fouls a game, and otherwise is just stellar with on-ball defense.
I’m surprised he doesn’t foul out every game
The refs have definitely let the spurs guards get away with really physical defense. They are shoving, grabbing, and bumping him the entire length of the court.
Brunson has been getting beat up this series, which is likely a big part of the bad stats.
He almost did every game in the Portland series
Against the wolves too, him and Jaden were constantly in foul trouble.
They’ve been all over him every time he’s on the floor. You can see it in a lot of his jumpers how uncomfortable he is
Very smart, very switchable but giving JB different types of looks
The key to Spurs success defensively in this game was hounding Brunson with physicality and different looks while also putting physical wings on KAT and sending the double after him with Wemby floating to stymie the Knicks’ cuts. Knicks have struggled against that all season.
Yes but it also shows off brunson’s worst tendencies which has been mitigated during our playoff run but happened in previous playoff runs. He sometimes dribbles way too much and we have like 4 secondary ballhandlers who can run the offense when it just isn’t there.
*fouling
This is not his series. He needs to understand that and stop trying to get himself going
Who’s gonna win the finals for you then
You say that as if the knicks are not up 2-1 with the next game at home.
They have a lot of talent. A full team. They don’t need a superhero IMO and just make sure to get everyone (looking at KAT) involved
Shamet of course
Right guys?
This dude is on Crack
They have to make a point to get KAT extremely involved in the offense every game
The Knicks’ strength lies within how strong their entire roster is, Brunson hero-ball diminishes that.
Both games the Knicks won, KAT was the best player
The sooner we realize that we need to pivot more of our plays and screens for KAT, the sooner the Knicks offense will get humming against the spurs. It’s legit the same thing as the hawks series…
Yeah a bit too many possessions where Brunson is pounding the ball and forcing a shot, some of them look ok and he is just missing but that’s prob cos he is gassed from being absolutely hounded too
What can the Knicks do? If Brunson’s ineffective offensively, are the Knicks going to sit him?
Literally all 3 games the Knicks fell behind by 10+ in the first quarter only for them to make the push without him in the second quarter through Kat
Him starting the game and shooting 2 for 7 all on isolation shot doesn’t help. Knicks fall by 12 and catches up when Kat is running the offense. Brunson can be a decoy or try to get the shot in the flow of the offense but whenever he’s on the floor, ball never touches Kat.
They have been making runs every time he sits so…
The team just flows better when he’s sitting but he does feel like a difference maker when he isn’t getting mugged on every possession.
All I know is if Fox had Brunson’s stat lines this sub would be saying he needs to be cut and traded
I swear this sub’s IQ is in the single digit when talking about Fox. Ours is not much better tbh.
Yea it seems like when he plays well no one mentions it but they freak out whenever he makes a bad play or has a bad game.
Harden and he gets criticized like the best player when their teams lose, but none of the credit when they win.
To be fair, fox’s lack of shooting really kills possessions
im pretty sure fox’s stats are even worse lol
You mean your own fans?
they’ve been saying that regardless lol
Fox had a lackluster performance. He had a great run to end the 3rd and start the 4th, and otherwise was pretty lackluster. Lots of weak defense, missed opportunities at easy passes and he was afraid to shoot the 3. Fox’s inability and/or unwillingness to shoot from 3 cost the Spurs a lot of spacing.
I just don’t watch Fox and think he lives up to his contract , he’s just underwhelming as hell.
They were gonna say it regardless.
only took one loss for the (rightful) slander to start
If Wemby doesn’t throw it away in game 2 it definitely starts then. Missing the layup and wide open three in the 4th was ugly
Tbf if it wasn’t for the wemby collapse it would’ve started last game.
Bruh if wemby hadn’t passed into his teammates back, knicks would have lost game 2 and the fans would have turned up on brunson..think about it, the slander didn’t happen because wemby made a mistake. That’s basketball and it’s fans man. If you win, all mistakes are forgotten. If you lose, someone is buried. It’s fortunate for brunson they won game 2
Very bad defense tonight too
Crazy how you start seeing shit like this immediately
I mean he has been ass overall. He bailed himself out with a big 4th quarter in game one but he was like 4⁄24 or something crazy at one point. Then he was straight up bad in games 2 and 3, but they won game 2 because they are more composed than the Spurs overall so it gets ignored.
KAT and OG have been the keys with important contributions from the supporting cast but Brunson is just not playing well
If Wemby made that shot at the end of G2, the narrative turns to how Brunson choked by missing that FT.
Happens when everybody’s been posting the “everybody wanna be better than Brunson till it’s time to be better than Brunson” thing.
It was inevitable if he ever fell off
Bing bong?
He cant deal with the ferocious big Spurs guards. They are absolutely lock down
not my Finals MVP
If the Knicks win I’m 100% giving it to KAT or OG.
Agreed, OG Anunoby has been a sleeper pick for sure. I’d still give it to Big Purr though
Right now he isn’t but they gotta win 2 more, lets see.
The spurs guards make you work every single time. There’s no rest.
When are we gonna get a sick ass nickname like “off night” for Stephon Castle?
The draw bridge
Let me cook
The dungeon maybe
He has to go Hercules or someone else needs to help with ball handling.
If neither of those happen they are not winning this series, the level of physicality is too much for one guy up against a 3 man rotation. You can see the attrition in real time.
He shouldn’t be the one bringing the ball up the court at this point
Alvarado was doing better at that job
We have got to get him off ball more and run the offense through KAT a bit. You know what to do Brown.
Easier said than done sadly. Spurs absolutely stymied the KAT centric plays by effectively switching his primary defender to a physical wing, sending a quick double and leaving Wemby free to roam and protect the paint from cutters. KAT has struggled throughout much of the season when the opposition matches up with a physical wing and sends doubles particularly from the baseline. Now throw in a Wemby sized defender in the mix to protect against the quick passes to cutters and that attack screeches to a halt.
‘Everyone is better than Brunson until it’s time to be better than Brunson’ Yeah okay man maybe everybody is just better than Brunson 🤡
He also needs his daddy to stick up for him. Only time Rick gets up off the bench. Lol
Is it slander if it’s just posting his stats? 😭
Might be wrong, but I think that in Game 1 he hurt his knee worse than is being let out
He’s just making bad decisions. He froze out KAT for no reason tonight
Spurs concentrated on KAT by switching his primary defender to a physical wing and sending doubles, frequently from the baseline, whenever he got the ball. It’s something we’ve seen KAT struggle against all season as Knicks fans. Throw in a Wemby sized floater to protect the paint and the issues compound. That’s where the offense fell off the rails.
But he is the one deciding that he wants to go iso though
I agree
His shooting percentage is doo doo but honestly, I don’t care about his shooting splits. With two minutes left—dude still scares me.
KAT is the best player on the team
Nah it’s OG now
11 points isn’t going to cut it
it’s all about matchups
brunson is better on average
His shooting wasn’t bad. 5 turnovers is a lot, but it’s not crazy for the primary ball handler of a team in today’s NBA.
People need to chill.
Brunson is not, and never will be, a point guard. He is a shooting guard. Tired of hearing him mentioned among best point guards in the game today
So much this. There is no playmaking at all from him. He is a ball handling sg.
Trump debuffthis game doesn’t count
I mean he’s been pretty crap this series. He just needs to get his teammates going, that’s how they’re gonna win.
He’s been awful this series outside of the last couple minutes of game 1
Spurs held Brunson to 38% by playing 1v1 in game 1. They started doubling Brunson in G2 and got his FG% down even further, but that was stupid and unnecessary. The Spurs’ issues in G1 were on the other side of the court…
The problem with doubling Brunson is that it forces the ball into the hands of KAT, Bridges, OG, (and the role players). You do not want those 3 getting hot against you, which will happen if you give them a numbers advantage so juicy that Brunson will defer to them. It’s generally easier to live with Brunson hero ball.
In game 2, where SAS sent doubles to Brunson through the first 3 quarters, Brunson’s shooting was worse than in game 1 but the trio of KAT, Bridges, and OG combined to shoot for ~60% from the field. Spurs’ defenders were getting lost in rotation over and over. I think the Spurs probably win G2 relatively easily if they kept it up with 1v1 coverage on Brunson…
SAS went back to guarding Brunson straight up tonight in G3. Brunson shooting shot up to 44%. But I’m taking that over getting the rest of the Knicks’ shooters going any day.
___
In Cleveland, Kenny either never figured this out. He refused to cut into Harden’s minutes and there was good way for that roster to clamp the Knicks’ offense without giving Strus and/or Schroder a larger proportion of Harden’s minutes.
76ers didn’t have any great options without sending help in general. Old Paul George + hobbled traffic cone Embiid + undersized Maxey + no bench. They had no legitimate way to defend Brunson and the Knicks. Mismatches everywhere, even without doubling Brunson.
Spurs defenders are good enough. No reason to double anyone.
Yeah.
Last post-season, the Pacers “got away” with a lot less doubling than many would think. But Nembhard & Nesmith are great defenders with great length and strength, similar to the guards & wings of the Spurs. And ‘24-‘25 Pacers’ starting 5 had the 2nd best defensive rating of any high usage 5-man lineup that season. (It helped that Haliburton improved is tall/long and improved his defense last year.)
But the Pacers were still forced to double Brunson pretty often while digging deep into bench rotations, particularly with TJM in the game. Spurs aren’t going as deep with their rotations, which means they can double Brunson even less throughout games than last year’s Pacers.
The Cavs turnovers rubbed off on him
Tonight he should’ve came off the ball. OG had it going and was getting to his spots.
Offense ran smoother with jose out there
hes still the knicks most important player, but dude looked tired tonight and has to be playing through multiple injuries at this point
would get very interesting if the spurs can win game 4. long series does not benefit them
Mitch waited till game 3 to let the Spurs guards actually play Brunson 1v1
It’s the OKC series all over again 😓 at least this time it didn’t take 4 games like it did for Spurs to stop double teaming Shai
The biggest change Spurs made was switching to a physical wing on KAT and allowing Wemby to float. Whenever KAT got on the ball they sent a double, frequently from the baseline, and things were stymied from there. The ball just wasn’t moving quick enough and the Knicks struggled to adjust to the different looks Spurs through at them.
Its because the refs are making him give the ball to the spurs. Its all the refs fault
Spurs are using the same approach that OKC does with their guards which is to defend guards incredibly physically and force the refs to call the fouls.
Spurs have the defenders to contain him along with being allowed to be extra physical with him. Def isn’t his series. KAT needed to show up tonight as well, same with Shamet
Trade that man to the blazers
He’s having a poor series. Not sure why many consider him the Finals MVP front runner. IMO it’s OG and then tied between KAT and Brunson.
They had way too many unforced turnovers this game. That was the main problem. Just let someone else bring the ball up once in a while and not start the offense with 10’sec on the shot clock
I really hope this doesn’t reflect badly on Brunson because this Spurs roster was crafted to hound star level guards on the opposing team. They’ve managed to make SGA look human too, just an absolute nightmare of perimeter defense
Spurs’ wing defense has been nasty all playoffs. They’ve got at least 3 guys on the court at all times who are just BETTER athletes and being the energy on every defensive possession.
They need to lose another game before the hit pieces start. Just wait
And yet we’re still hearing “He’s my pick for finals MVP right now because of the attention he draws”. That impact is cool, and I don’t love things like Andre Iguodala finals MVP but you have another All Star on the team who was VERY good games one and two…
Sheeeesh but every shot he makes are insane layups. Let’s go spurs! Time to make history😈
Now do KAT
Brunson was fine tonight. I dont love the iso ball but besides OG everyone disappeared in the 2nd half.
Steph Castle
a minute ago y’all loved him
Clarkson, Hart, OG & GTA given those type of minutes - Brunson gotta be better
It’s OG’s FMVP to lose if they win it all
Spurs have done a great job defending him and forcing him to take incredibly tough shots. He can certainly hit those, but it might not be the best winning strategy.
Spurs are playing him well and Wemby just denying everything at the rim so he’s shooting 37% on basically all contested jumpers which is probably what you’d expect. It’s not like the Spurs guards who are missing wide open 3s constantly.
castle Harper and fox are 9-40 on 3s this series and just about all of them are wide open or on the C&S.
Thats the bad man and until hes defeated i dont care about his numbers
He is amazing in clutch moment
He was playing WAY too much hero ball tonight
That’s because Spurs effectively took KAT out of the game.
Stephon castle had 32 turnovers vs okc. Brunson had 17 turnovers vs the cavs and 76ers. 8 vs 7 games but still.
OKC fans sitting back and laughing.
Finals MVP?
I remember when Tatum was crucified for shooting poorly but still posting near triple doubles and playing good defense lol
It’s almost like the Spurs have a good defense or something
and yet they dont win either game without him
But Knicks fans swear he’s playing great defense 😂