Who are the most effective 6’4 and Under Short Guard Defenders Current and All Time?
A list of the best short defenders ever. If you were a 6’1, or 6’2 Guard in the league whose play style should you try to emulate and why?
Gary Payton
GP2
Modern NBA nicknames are so lazy.
aww come on, dont be like that nW99
The Joker
Luka Magic
The Alien
Ant Man
Spida
The Greek Freak
Swiper
There are still cool nicknames it’s just you’re exposed to more players more often compared to back then so people just abbreviate them (which makes much more sense than giving GP2 a unique nickname). And you’re an oldhead.
Edit: Below me there are even more nicknames, a lot of them better than the ones on this list.
Great Barrier Thief is the best nickname in the NBA
Better than Slim Reefer?
Grand Theft Alvarado?
the stiffle tower is a great one too
The French Rejection
Patient zero
Every nickname you just listed is wildly uninteresting
What nicknames would you consider interesting and why?
Bad Porn Black Jesus Time Lord AK-47 The Slim Reaper The Vanilla Gorilla Worm The Round Mound of Rebound White Chocolate
All of those are pretty good except for bad porn, which is the type of name that might work for internet comments but is otherwise unusable
Cream Abdul Jabbar
Nah Bro. The round mound of rebound?đ
Valid, though timelord and World B. Flat are modern. AR-15 is a cool modern nickname.
Either way I just gave a few nicknames I can think of of high level players in response to someone complaining about abbreviations. I’m sure there are a bunch of great nicknames that I don’t know of because the players are role players on teams I don’t follow.
As a Blazers fan I can offer:
Kilng Kong for Donovan Clingan
Young Handsome for Yang Hansen
Denitentiary for Deni Avdija (back when he was a defensive specialist). Now he’s called Turbo but it’s not as cool imo.
Dame Dolla for Damian Lillard
Mathief for Mattise Thybulle
âLuka Magicâ is so corny and lazy. Ive always liked âLuka the Donâ
Luka Magic is kinda meh but Luka the Don is just cringe
Luka Magic isnât good, but Luka the Don is horrible
Especially because he’s already The Glove
Not as lazy as his dad naming him
Alien, slim reaper, skyfucker, antman, the joker, big body Brunson, Greek freak, grand theft Alvarado, beef stew, dubious handles, tingus pingus are all pretty good imo. Â
GP3
The Big Fundamental
The Sock.
The Mitten
GP2 being a 6â2â center will always make me laugh
Kidd is much better.
Payton’s defense is like Kobe’s, way overrated
Chris Paul.
Probably the best defender under 6ft ever.
Jose Alvarado has also earned a nickname for his defensive skills.
He did. Heâa also no where near as good of a defender as Chris Paul was.
Mugsy was better. Only reason why he was in the league
I will always be impressed with how good CP3 was when he’d occasionally get switch onto a big in the post. You’d think it’d be automatic bucket but he was so smart about either pulling the chair, swiping the ball on the way up, poking it away on the dribble, etc.
Tony Allen was pretty good defensively
First team All-Defense đ
I will never forget the playoffs when KD was on OKC and I thin Tony was on Memphis and KD could not solve Tony. A lot of it was just straight up ball denial, but even when KD got it he had all the tricks in the book so you could tell KD never felt comfortable.
The Grindfather was a one-man jail cell for ball handlers
Dude would get the craziest steals then miss the open layup đ awesome player to watch tho
People today complain about how OKC plays defence, if they saw Tony Allen play they would literally have an aneurysm.Â
Idk the main complaint with OKC is that they play a hyper aggressive and physical defense on one end but get a decent bit of soft calls on the other.
Grit and Grind Grizzlies were in your face on both ends. They were just a physical team but you could match that
Not to mention Kobe saying he was the best person to ever defend him as well!
Tony Allen was not only good, he was a brick wall. Grit&Grind Grizzlies were a menace before the league changed below their feet.
Tony Allen wasnt taller? TIL
Could of swore he was like 6â7 lol
âFactor this in, I just choked out Gobert in the first minute, I could make First Team All Defense.â âWhose First Team All Defense are you talking about?â âTony Allenâs First Team All Defenseâ âBoy itâs out the mud with Draymond Greenâ âTONY ALLENâS FIRST TEAMâ
is “pretty good” a joke
Jrue Holiday, Marcus Smart
Jrue is the perfect answer for current players. His screen navigation and footwork are mandatory viewing if you want to play defense at that height. Smart just survives by being built like a fire hydrant
Eh, even Jrue is kinda massive for a guard. Dude is just as heavy as Smart with a eight-and-a-half foot standing reach.
The best example in recent years is probably CP3. He’s still got a pretty big wingspan, but being sub-6 feet means you’ve got to be crisp as hell when it comes to positioning and footwork.
His play against Wemby in the 1st round was genius and stellar. Matching up with a guy nearly 16â taller and playing solid.
Now I want to see crowd signs of a hydrant wearing a Lakers jersey
No one listing Avery Bradley?!
Avery had go go gadget arms.
Overrated defender archetype not that impactful compared to the other greats being discussed here. If you’re small and can’t switch onto big players you’re not that useful ultimately
yeah he had a couple decent years but listing him in the same breath as guys like Tony Allen is absurd
Joe Dumars
Dumars was an absolute menace on defense. One of the few that could contain MJ.
He’s about as good at defense as he is bad at being a GM
He may not be the best defender, but with how much offensive load that Wade had to carry its incredible what he was able to accomplish defensively (before his knees gave out)
Wade is THE best SG defender of all time. But he is 6’5 isn’t he?
Bb ref has him at 6’4đ¤ˇââď¸ nba player height has always been questionable
Muggsy Bogues was a menace at 5’3
He guarded prime MJ 1v1 and held his own
Tracy McGrady said he was terrified of him because he’d disappear in the sea of trees and pop up when he’d least expect it like a basketball gremlin
There had never been ,nor will there ever be, another dude with his archetype.
The anti-Wemby
Is MJ averaging 31.5-5.4-5.8 on 53/35/83 splits against Muggsy holding his own? Muggsy wasnât a charity case, you donât have to make stuff up lol. Dudes see the clip of him stripping MJ and start making shit up
“Held his own”
Other dudes with a foot or more on him got torched worse by MJ.
Yeah, brain dead argument
It’s fucking basketball not the Athenian Forum.
Let your hair down and suck some dick, enjoy life bro
Thats MJs normal averages so well kinda I guess.
Scrolled way too far to see Mugsy. Man defined âsize of fight in a dog, not the size of the dog in a fightâ
Lmao, basketball gremlin is gold.
Listening to Muggs talk about playing defense is so wild. He talks about how if someone is dribbling, it’s gotta hit the floor, so the ball is his.
He was so confident that he could be faster than anyone else that hid sit behind people in their blind spots to get the steal. TMac talks about how Muggsy forced folks to pick up the ball far more often than dudes twice his size, because he was such a menace.
The NBA hill I’ll die on is that Muggsy remains the pound-for-pound most athletic player in NBA history.
Were they even in the league at the same time?
Tmac and Mugsy are teammates on the Raptors
Yeh he’s remembered as an “Late 80s/Early 90s” guy but he played into 2001 or 2002
McGrady said on a podcast that an old ass Muggsy giving him work was the moment he realised he had to lock in
I met Muggsy at my local YMCA in 2011. He still had serious moves. Was a really cool guy as well.
Yes. Muggsy was from 1987-2001, McG came in the league in 1997
The first DPOY award went to 6’4” guard Sidney Moncrief in ‘83, then he won it again in ‘84.
It always interested me that 5 of the first 6 DPOYs were Shooting Guards, then in the next 38 seasons the position never won another DPOY.
The best shot blocking guard to do it d wade
He’d be my vote
thatâs objectively now derrick white
Derrick White has averaged 78.8 blocks per 82 games throughout his career, DWade averaged 82.2 blocks per 82 games through his age 31 season (White’s current age).
Fun fact, (not saying he’s a better shot blocker, but) 6 foot Fred VanVleet holds the nba record for most blocks in a single game by a point guard, with 6.
This is way too objective.
sneaky to normalize to games - wade played >7 extra minutes per game in that time frame. per/36 is 1.2 to 1 in whiteâs favor
DWade
I think Payton will be a popular choice here, but I’ll also nominate DWade. He was an excellent defender and shot blocking guard at 6 4
John Stockton
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far for this.
Stockton broke the all time steals record in 1996. He was a starter for seven more seasons after.
No one is close to his steals or assists marks. They will never be broken.
LeBron when he just keeps at it for several more decades
Loved watching him disrupt the other team’s offense by being such a pest. Also among the most convincing floppers ever.
chris paul
Kyle Lowry id underrated
He took a change in an all star game. What more can you say.
His arms are not that long but his timing on when to swipe is impeccable. Built his body to be be reallt strong and stocky so that he can defend against the post
But OP was looking for Guards, and we all know that GP2 is a power forward!
Idk. Kerr uses him as a guard PoA defender during defense and as a rolling PF during offense lol
Itâs a ongoing joke - GP2 plays as a roller and lob threat, and is often in the dunkers spot, so he gets the âpower forwardâ label affectionately by us Warriorâs fans! He also rebounds well for his size and will occasionally block shots at the rim.
Sidney Moncrief Gary Payton Jrue Holiday Dennis Johnson Joe Dumars Derek Harper John Stockton CP3 Marcus Smart
Moncrief is a great pull
Jason Kidd
Isn’t he 6’5
He’s 6’4
Andrew Nembhard
Chris Paul
Cason Wallace
He’s not the most, but Derrick White.
I think he’s one of the best shotblocking guards of all time.
D White was supposed to be a stocky 6’8 spot-up guy with passing touch but was born into a point guard’s body
Chauncey Billups
marcus smart
Miles McBride, Marcus Smart, Jrue Holiday
all these guys are pretty similar in that they are really strong and stout physically, but also they keep a strong defensive stance at all times, stay in front of their assignment, know how to use their hands and chest and maximize physicality but without getting in foul trouble, and know when and when not to leave their feet. great footwork in general, laterally, around screens, everything.
also they just put in that dawg effort on every play which you simply need to be a premiere defender in the NBA
Avery Bradley is under rated defender.
I loved Joe Dumars gameâŚ
Casino Wallace (6’3) is pretty good on OKC.
Kris Dunn (6’3) on the Clippers is pretty much overlooked because the Clips has done nothing the past few seasons and he was forgotten in Utah before.
Marcus Smart (6’3) was still solid even if he was way better around 2020 as a defender.
Gary Payton II (6’2) is still pretty solid even if he was better around 2022.
Davion Mitchell (just 6’0, imho even 5’11), is probably per inc one of the best defensive players in the league.
Javon Carter (6’0) is another one pretty solid on defense, but i won’t really put him in the category of elite guard defenders.
As it goes with Jose Alvarado (6’0).
I think that’s it for the league right now. In the past there are too many, even stars like CP3 was a really great defender despite being short, or Gary Payton or Stockton…
CP3
Kyle Lowry
For guys 6 feet and under, a shout out to Kyle Lowry. Good post defender, fantastic charge taker, and all time dump truck
The GROAT!
Gary Payton, Cp3, Walter Frazier, Dennis Johnson
Surprised this is the only mention of Clyde in the thread (so far).
Calling him Walter is a crime though. Walt or Clyde, Walter though?
GP(1), GP2 or Both?
Senior, he won dpoy in 96 when guys like pippen mj hakeem and ewing were in their prime
Sidney Moncrief, Gary Payton, Michael Cooper, Jason Kidd, Tony Allen, Chris Paul, Jrue Holiday, Marcus Smart, Dwyane Wade, Cason Wallace
I imagine most guards nowadays who want to be like that haven’t heard much of the older guys but Kobe and others have mentioned Tony Allen as the toughest defender they’ve faced. So I imagine modeling your game after him would be a start.
Jrue Holiday and CP3 are two other excellent choices. Both very smart players, who aren’t extremely physically gifted defenders like young Wade (speed, jumping ability) but they knew how to be fundamentally sound and always in the right spot.
Sidney Moncrief
Joe Dumars is the only player that guarded Jordan straightup and won consistently, including x3 years in row in the playoffs, at Jordanâs absolute peak. That has to count for something.
Recent- marcus smart, all time- Gary Fucking Payton… Also, the all time steals leader is 6”1’ john stockton, he has been cited by other hall of fame players for being lightning fast and strong as a bull, very difficult to do anything against, he did weight training in a time before basketball players worked on strength
::edit:: Found it!
Within active players, the 6’4 model is definitely Jrue Holiday, one of the rare two times champions in the post-warriors/cavs era of parity (the other two being Alex Caruso and KCP who are both 6’5)
All-time if you go by defensive stats you can’t go wrong with the stat god John Stockton or the point god Chris Paul. If you go by awards you take Sidney Moncrief, if you go by all-around defensive menace you take Gary Payton
But really in 2026, be the new Jrue, get rings
Avery Bradley
JJ Barrea
Walt Frazier was listed at 6’4” exactly so on the upper end of your range but was an incredible defender.
Al Attles doesn’t quite have the defensive accolades but was also excellent.
JJ Barea
Norm Van Lier, 6â1â, 8x all-NBA-defense. âMany NBA pundits argue that Van Lier and former Bulls teammate and Utah Jazz coach Jerry Sloan combined to form the best defensive backcourt in league history when they played for Chicago from 1971-76.â (https://troubadour.francis.edu/4712/sports/sfu-to-celebrate-life-and-career-of-legendary-norm-van-lier/)
Jrue has to be top 2
current? i might have to take davion mitchell
Jrue Holiday idk if he counts as a short guard though
Sidney Moncrief won 2 DPOYs at 6’4
Peak Eric Bledsoe
Sid, Dumars, Jrue, Dyson Daniels, DWade.
I refuse to put Stockton on that list because of the way he played.
Davion Mitchell
Bronny
Wade, Payton, Stockton come to mind. Jerry West maybe? Iâve watched some old film but I donât really know.
Walt â Clydeâ Frazier. 7x all defense.
Chris Paul is the answer
Mugsey Bogues, inch for inch the best defender ever
All-time has to be Gary Payton, right? A shutdown defender so good they nicknamed him The Glove.
Chris Paul at his peak was kind of insane given he’s barely 6’0 barefoot
Lu Dort.
i pretty much played like dort other than the flopping part. played football and point guard
Kidd and it’s not even close, but he’s 6’4 and bigge than most point guards
Jevon Carter
Kyle Lowryâs ass.
Jrue Holiday is one of the best individual perimeter defenders of all time and could cover damn near everyone across 4 positions
GMâs better hope itâs the guards in this draft.Â
Pat Bev
Delly.
Grand theft Alvarado
Avery Bradley all day
Micheal Jordan and Kobe were like 6â4
Mr. 2 Time Steve Nash
Edit: my b I didnât read âdefendersâ haha
nope
nah
curry
Known defensive stopper Steph Curry