A couple of years ago, I posted my All Time Celtics roster, and explained that while I’m not a Celtics Fan, I have written hundreds of all time NBA rosters, including one for very NBA team. You could find that post here.

Now that some time has past, so has the roster, leading me to another post.

Since my last post in 2023-24, I had Ray Allen as a backup shooting guard, over Jaylen Brown. Since Brown’s Finals MVP in 2024 however, i modified that, and removed Allen for Brown.

Today, I ask a similar question: Is Derrick White the better fit, and more deserving to be on this team, rather than Prime Celtics Rajon Rondo? For reference, here is the roster.

Point Guard. Bob Cousy

Shooting Guard. John Havlicek

Small Forward. Larry Bird

Power Forward. Kevin McHale

Center. Bill Russell

Bench.

Point Guard. Jojo White/Rajon Rondo

Shooting Guard. Jaylen Brown/Sam Jones

Small Forward. Paul Pierce/Jayson Tatum

Power Forward. Kevin Garnett/Tom Heinsohn

Center. Robert Parish/Dave Cowens

Coach. Red Auerbach

If I were to add Derrick White, he’d be in replacement of Rondo. I’m conflicted, but leaning toward keeping Rondo, and the roster the same. What do you guys think? Looking for advice of those who know these players the best.

Zelts94

17 | 16 hours ago

Honestly feel like KG should start. Doesn’t have the history with the Celtics as the others, but talent wise could be #3 behind bird and Russell

Prankstaboy6

1 | 16 hours ago

I’ve long considered this, and probably could’ve been swayed to have him start, but when I got the recommendation to have Tatum start as Point-Forward, and push McHale to the bench, I feel pretty content with keeping Garnett on the bench. I agree with you talent wise though. For me, it’s talent, and the fit.

pmo0710

1 | 8 hours ago

Disagree. We didn’t get the best KG experience. I mean overall maybe, but even then I’m still more partial to putting Bird at the 4 and Hondo at the 3. Frankly Tatum will likely finish his career there.

andoCalrissiano

14 | 17 hours ago

it’s harder if you are talking fit which isn’t usually considered in these exercises. In terms of greatness and talent Rajon is quite a bit higher.

In terms of who would be a better role player out there on the court with four other legends it would be White with his spacing and superior defense.

JimG617

9 | 17 hours ago

Rondo was a pretty exceptional fit as a role player for 3 HOF caliber starters. Not sure if you put White in that spot they win in 08 and contend as much after. Rondo just fit Pierce/KG/Ray so well.

RyguyBMS | Considered

2 | 15 hours ago

Rondo was an exceptional facilitator back in the day. But he had a huge weakness early on, which was shooting. Deep in the playoffs teams started leaving him wide open daring him to shoot, it became almost a mental game with him. D.White is not on that level of passer, but he’s a great defender and can be a knockdown shooter. More than anything I trust D.White to be able to change up his game to fit the play style needed. I think if you swap Rondo for D.White the C’s still win easily.

aberdoo | GINO TIME

15 | 17 hours ago

DJ over Rondo or D White. All day.

JamesVanDerSneak

9 | 15 hours ago

Cowens should be the #1 PF if we are just ranking Celtics careers. Won a league MVP and was the best player on 2 championship teams. Only other Celtics to win league MVP (Russell, Bird, Cousy) are in your starting lineup. People really seem to sleep on/forget about the great 70s teams between the Russell and Bird eras.

JimG617

5 | 17 hours ago

White is an executional role player for the Celtics (EXCEPTIONAL!), but I guess you just “had to be there” for peak Rondo. I wouldn’t even be shy about replacing Cousy with Rondo.

In your alltime list you could very comfortably move Bird to PF and slide Pierce into the SF spot OR leave Bird at SF and replace McHale with KG as starting PF. KG didn’t have the longevity of McHale, but I’d take him every day of the week over him.

That’s as of now, eventually I’d love to see Tatum over take Pierce at SF…it’s not too far off.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 17 hours ago

I actually got the suggestion from somebody in the thread to put McHale as a backup, and push Tatum as a starting Powerforward, where he’d effectively be the Point Forward. What do you think of that?

JimG617

3 | 17 hours ago

Bird has a realistic case to be labeled as a Point Forward/Power Forward (79-84 he was labeled as a PF until they moved McHale into the starting lineup.) Bird is still light years ahead of Tatum. Pierce was basically the equivalent of DWade, but DWade had a better supporting cast. He had a borderline prime Shaq and Pierce had trash teams around him…TRASH. Tatum has had solid supporting casts and has shown signs of being better than Pierce, but needs a bit more on his resume to overtake The Truth.

Mindless_Panic_5947 | 2024 NBA Executive of the Year

3 | 14 hours ago

At this point, Tatum has done enough to warrant a debate. Wouldn’t it make more sense to simply use Tatum as a replacement for forwards as needed, replacing Bird or the starting power forward? That’s precisely Tatum’s advantage: positional diversity.

JaDamian_Steinblatt

3 | 17 hours ago

If they’re playing in 2010, give me Rondo. If they’re playing in 2025, give me Derrick White. Overall Rondo was a better basketball player.

DontStealMyPen1

4 | 15 hours ago

Why not Dennis Johnson or Isaiah Thomas at point as starters or backups? For 1-2 seasons, IT was a flamethrower and DJ is a HOFer who’s, arguably, better than Rondo and White.

dbinnunE3 |

5 | 10 hours ago

Dennis Johnson is my personal all time starting PG for my Celtics lineup

DJ Pierce Bird Garnett Russell

I usually don’t take it past the starting 5, but if I did have a bench 5

Rondo Havlicek Tatum McHale Parish

Edit: and rounding out the team I suppose

Cousy Allen Brown Silas Cowens

To your question, D White is a great role player, excellent defender, and was incredibly important to several deep playoff runs, but Rondo to me is a universal fit on any team that needs a PG because of his core skill set at the position and his bball IQ. Add in the competitiveness and his confidence? Great mindset for a leader on the court. DW has huge confidence lapses, and it impacts him far too much on the court IMO

Prankstaboy6

1 | 7 hours ago

Thanks!

halobeni | Kung Fu Joe’s terrorism prosecutor

2 | 17 hours ago

today basketball is a positionless sport, so here’s my input;

PG: Bird

SG: Havlicek (I believe he can adapt to today’s game)

SF: Tatum

PF: McHale

C: Russell

coach: Red

and I’ll take Rondo over DWhite anytime. I mean Rondo was a triple-double machine back then.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 17 hours ago

Seems fun, but I’m still rather conservative with positions, so I don’t think that I would radically change the lineup like this.

With that said, I did put Tatum in there instead of McHale, to have Tatum effectively play as a Point Forward. McHale is on the bench now (With Heinsohn moved to be the backup SF).

halobeni | Kung Fu Joe’s terrorism prosecutor

1 | 17 hours ago

sounds fair. considering Cousy was a good perimeter defender in his days.

IronBush

2 | 15 hours ago

Bye bye Rondo, hello Nate Archibald.

L4ZERDT | Bll Russell

1 | 17 hours ago

First, D-White is a shooting guard most of the time. Second, Rondo is still miles better

Prankstaboy6

1 | 17 hours ago

Yeah i considered the fact that White is generally a shooting Guard. Thats what made me lean toward just keeping Rondo in his backup role. That and the second point that you made.

Mg29reaper

1 | 17 hours ago

Tatum has to be in over McHale. He is to good ofball of a shooter at the 4 and a very versatile defender. Thats not accounting for his ability to essentially run point at 6’9”

[deleted]

1 | 17 hours ago

[deleted]

Mg29reaper

2 | 17 hours ago

Tatum has been listed at the 4 for ⁴⁄₉ years of his career including in 24

Prankstaboy6

1 | 17 hours ago

Alright I’ll do that. There would obviously be concerns with Cousy as the main ball handler for the lineup. Not to mention the fact that McHale was often a 6th man in his early-mid 80s career anyway. I’ll make Tatum the Starting PF, with McHale coming off the bench as the backup PF (Heinsohn gets moved down to SF. A position that he’s played before).

Thanks for the suggestion.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

0 | 9 hours ago

Dave Cowens is the starting PF. The only reason to put Tatum ahead of Cowens is recency bias.

Player A has an MVP, a ROY, two titles, three All-NBA, three All-Defensive, and eight AS.

Player B has one title, five All-NBA, and six AS.

Player C has a ROY, three titles, one All-NBA, one 6th man, six All-Defensive, and seven AS.

Tatum has time to improve his resume but … he’s not yet close to A or C.

The Celtics all time team is the hardest club to get into in sports.

You should also rethink Jaylen Brown. Too early!

Prankstaboy6

1 | 7 hours ago

I agree that Cowens is likely greater all time than Tatum, but it was pointed out to me that the team should likely have a more reliable guy to bring it up the court, than just Bob Cousy (Not to undermine Cousy. Also I’m aware that Bird was also a Point Forward type player in his day).

Due to that, I replaced Tatum with Cowens. Even if it wasn’t Tatum, I likely would’ve just kept the starting Power Forward as McHale, or push Garnett there.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

1 | 7 hours ago

> more reliable guy to bring it up court

Recency bias.

You need to define some rules. Where and when is it being played? Is Bob Cousy arriving from 1954 with zero time to train and get acclimated to whatever (modern) rules you’ve got in your head?

Because Bob Cousy doesn’t need help bringing the ball up the court. The only way he does is if you give him _nothing_ and plunk him into 2026 game the day he steps out of the Time Machine.

Great players were great because they took advantage of the rules of their era. Give SGA time to train to 1954 rules and he’d still be great.(He would have more turnovers.) Give Bob Cousy the same respect.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 7 hours ago

With the parity of eras on my all time rosters, my thinking has always been that they would have an entire offseason to train, and get acclimated to today’s rules. Obviously Cousy would acclimate, but I still think that it could do this team some good to have a Point-Forward type player in the lineup, and for him not to be Larry Bird, so Larry could play his own role more comfortably.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

1 | 7 hours ago

You’re trying to understand and I want to encourage that. But I’m confused. What do you think Bird’s “role” is?

Tatum is absolutely a starting caliber all-time player for almost every other franchise in the League. Not this one. He’s not close to Bird as a secondary playmaker or ball handler. He’s not close to Cowens as a team defender or rebounder. He’s not close to McHale as an individual defender or post scorer. He’s not KG.

I appreciate that the SAMPLE HERE very loudly wants Jayson Tatum recognized as a great all time Celtic.

Someday, he might be. Today is not that day.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 6 hours ago

In this starting lineup that I mentioned, with Tatum as the PF, I see Bird’s role as effectively an Off-Ball floor spacer, who is more than capable of catching backdoor cuts, and staying on the wing/Middy area for catch and shoot pull-ups.

I think that Bird has such a High Basketball IQ, that in a Red Auerbach offense, he could still basically be a great second Decision maker if you will. He wouldn’t necessarily need the ball in his hands at all times to command the offense.

PebblyJackGlasscock | Second Round Pick Enthusiast

1 | 5 hours ago

Son, and I’m using that with my Dad-est tone, I need you to watch more Larry Bird videos.

Bird is one of the five or ten best players in League history. He’s not “off ball” in any scenario that involves winning games.

Please, more time watching tape if you’re gonna do this right.

Be well.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 5 hours ago

Thank you for the responses. I really enjoyed the back and forth, discussing basketball, and different ideas. I’ll take you up on your advice.

You be well, too.

Mindless_Panic_5947 | 2024 NBA Executive of the Year

1 | 4 hours ago

I’m genuinely curious what extra value Cowens brings as a power forward compared to Tatum, KG, or McHale. Especially considering the center is Bill Russell and the small forward is Larry Bird. Doesn’t it make more sense to choose a power forward who can shoot threes, like Tatum or KG and form a lethal defensive duo with Garnett and Russell?

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

Yes that is true in the sense where if we’re playing the modern game Derek White is a better fit than prime rondo.

But if we’re playing in any other decade prime rondo is better.

pmo0710

1 | 8 hours ago

Nah I see Tatum more as a three. Although if his career continues as is he will likely be first team when he retires which in my eyes would be Cousy/Havlicek/Bird/Tatum/Russell. Which is an incredible team

Mindless_Panic_5947 | 2024 NBA Executive of the Year

1 | 15 hours ago

I would put Tatum or KG over McHale. I think White’s idea would be a better fit for the team. I would also put DJ over Jojo and Rondo. On paper, Derrick is perhaps the best fit for a team with so many stars, which is the same reason he was chosen for the Olympics.

Not having Ray would seem like a mistake to me, so the idea would be to replace Sam Jones with Ray. It’s obviously more about talent than contributions to the franchise, but I don’t see how you can pass up the chance to have Ray Allen on your bench when there aren’t that many three-point specialists.

I would really just take out Tommy Heinsohn and keep Sam Jones.

Tatum can play both power forward and small forward, so you wouldn’t lose depth, and forwards are precisely where we already have a lot of talent to choose from. You could even put Jaylen at small forward if absolutely necessary.

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

It’s arguable but I think people here underestimate McHale. would have been an MVP candidate if Bird wasn’t there.

And he’s way more important to the Celtics than KG. KG was not even here during his prime. Like it’s not even close. McHale was the second best player on three championship teams.

Kg was the second best player on one.

Mindless_Panic_5947 | 2024 NBA Executive of the Year

1 | 5 hours ago

I disagree with the notion that KG was only the second player on that team. I believe KG was the most important player on that championship team. It’s true Pierce has the Finals MVP, but that would be like saying Brown was more important in 2004 than Tatum, or that Cedric was more important than Bird in ‘81.

Having said that, longevity aside, a KG in 2008 is still, in my opinion, a better player than McHale for an all-time team. If the argument were longevity and contribution to the franchise, then Tatum should be the power forward, or they should play Pierce as a small forward and Bird as a power forward.

Mindless_Panic_5947 | 2024 NBA Executive of the Year

1 | 5 hours ago

I disagree. I think KG was the most important player on that championship team. It’s true Pierce has the Finals MVP, but that would be like saying Brown was more important in 2004 than Tatum, or that Cedric was more important than Bird in ‘81.

Having said that, longevity aside, KG in 2008 is still, in my opinion, a better player than McHale for an all-time team. If the argument were longevity and contribution to the franchise, then Tatum should be the power forward, or they should play Pierce as a small forward and Bird as a power forward.

I want to clarify that I would keep Tatum, KG, and McHale on the team; it would only be a discussion about who’s in the starting lineup. The only real change, if I could change one thing in the OP’s roster, would be to remove Tom Heinsohn and add a guard or another center to the team.

el_flac0

1 | 9 hours ago

Fit-wise

PG: Jrue, D-White

SG: Allen, Hondo

SF: Tatum, Pierce

PF: Bird, KG

C: Russ, Horford, Chief

Talent-wise, it’s a different story.

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

You cannot have a team like this without McHale It’s crazy. I would put McHale over Chief, and horford.

In Jesus horford over McHale? McHale is probably the 6th or 7th best Celtic of all time.

pmo0710

1 | 8 hours ago

My team looks like this

First team Cousy/S Jones/Havlicek/Bird/Russell
Second team J White/Pierce/Tatum/Mchale/Cowens
Third team DJ/Sharman/Brown/Garnett/Chief

Just missed Heinsohn/White/Rondo/Allen

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

Yours is very similar to the way I would have it.

You’re right to have a check in there over Pierce and tatum.

McHale over Tatum is a little tougher though. But I don’t know I think because of recency bias and Reddit being pretty young some people here will never sufficiently appreciate how good McHake was.

And I can’t even really appreciate how good Hondo was because I wasn’t alive. But smarter people than me tell me that a list without him is crazy

And if we’re going to have a pure point guard on there it’s probably going to be cousy. Rondo at his peak was a monster but he wouldn’t be well good in a modern game and his peak was so short.

If we don’t have to go with the traditional point guard and if we could play positionless basketball then you probably we put Tatum at the point or something.

Prankstaboy6

1 | 5 hours ago

I took out McHale and out in Tatum.

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

I would probably put prime rondo ahead of Derek White. He was like the star of the team in 2009 when KG was hurt in the playoffs he was ridiculous.

He did have a very short prime so I wouldn’t get mad if someone chose otherwise. White is better in the modern game. But unlike rondo he was a late bloomer instead of an early bloomer. Definitely less marketable, definitely less exciting to watch

Rondo highlight reel is a really special thing. Derek White highlight wheel is good but you know nothing is electric.

I guess I would go with prime rondo unless your saying that this is going to be with modern day sensibilities and rules and sty. Like a pace in space game Derek White is going to be a more valuable asset than rondo.

But given that we have Bill Russell at center I assume it’s not the kind of game we’re playing

Prankstaboy6

1 | 5 hours ago

Yeah I’ve definitely decided to keep Rondo. Now I’m basically just debating what my starting lineup should be, and whether or not Tatum should be included. Thanks for the comment.

LarBrd33

-1 | 16 hours ago

When you accept the game is always evolving and talent is always improving, Tatum is arguably a top 2 Celtic all time with Bird and then 2008 Garnett rounding out the top 3.

If you base an all time Celtic team on accolades there’s like 15 guys ahead of 1 time champs like Pierce.

dbinnunE3 |

1 | 10 hours ago

Are you a JB and Pierce hater?

You’re crazy dude

LarBrd33

1 | 8 hours ago

Nope. Love them. Solid fringe all nba guys. Brown is a borderline superstar. Pierce never was one

dbinnunE3 |

1 | 8 hours ago

Your opinion sways like a baby tree in the wind.

Borderline superstar? But trade the guy immediately, sucks, cant win with him? Huh?

Clown show my guy, you are a total clown show.

LarBrd33

1 | 7 hours ago

Literally never said trade the guy immediately, or that he sucks, or that we can’t win without him. So I dunno what you’re going on about

Alternative-Farmer98

1 | 5 hours ago

This is some nice rage bait

LarBrd33

0 | 5 hours ago

It’s facts. Tatum is a top 2 player all time for this franchise. If you were doing a draft of every player in their prime, bird is the only guy you could take ahead of him. Pierce given he played not that long ago would be in the mix too but behind guys like Tatum, KG, Hondo, Brown, Kyrie, etc

Asking Celtics Fans a question concerning my All Time Celtics Roster.