Best team > best player

Best player in the world is Luka. He smartly didn’t suit up so he wouldn’t be exposed

KAT is the best in the world. Just got to accept it.

Seems pretty obvious Mikal Bridges is the best in the world

Best in the world right now is KAT followed by CJ McCollum no recency bias whatsoever

I think it goes to show once again that team and individual narratives mixing is problematic to sport discourse.

Matchups exist. This isn’t a series of 1v1s. Shai didn’t play against Wemby, the Thunder played against the Spurs. Wemby isn’t playing against KAT, he and the Spurs are playing against the Knicks.

The Knicks offer matchup challenges to Wemby that the Thunder didn’t have.

The Spurs had challenges for SGA that the Knicks likely wouldn’t have had.

None of this has any bearing on who is “best in the world” as much as people are obsessed with talking about rings and winning as the sole parameters of individual differentiation.

Best individual player just needs to be based on who, on a consistent basis, over long stretches plays the best. Not who has great playoff games/series. Not whose team makes it to/wins the Finals.

That said I agree that we are in a great age for parity. Overall talent level around the league is high and improving every year. Players are bringing amazing overall individual skillsets and levels of athleticism that we used to rarely see on a semi regular basis now. Its fun to watch.

Giannis, jokic, SGA, Luka, and wemby can all look like the best player in the world on any given night. All of them have flaws to their game that doesn’t allot them to truly seperate from the pack. As much as the media and fans want it we don’t have an MJ or LeBron in the league right now who is so clearly above everyone else. We have 5 guys who are elite. Wemby will probably become that guy soon, but rn it’s so obvious his offense isn’t there yet.

I think its because team basketball is more important now than ever. Like you always needed a really good team to win a championship but if you had the best player in the world he could just will you to win and basically 1v5 large stretches of games. I’d say in the last 5 years that concept has been dying out and you need a legit deep squad with as little flaws as possible to win now or it’ll be exposed by some team eventually.

Nuggets haven’t had an 8 man rotation as good as the 2023 squad, OKC wasn’t fully healthy this year and the Spurs are very young and still shortening the rotation even this deep into the playoffs. Even the 2022 Warriors roster went 9 deep in the rotation in the playoffs

I actually think these playoffs show the opposite

The “best player in the world” discussion always gets way too absolute, as if the best player is supposed to dominate every matchup and never have a bad series

Jokic, Shai and Wemby can all be elite while still having weaknesses that great teams can exploit

If anything, these playoffs have highlighted how important team context, coaching and matchups are, not that the stars suddenly aren’t great anymore

The league feels deeper than ever right now and that’s made the postseason way more interesting to watch than the era of predictable superteams 👀

Completely agree. I think there are SO many good players in the league right now it’s hard to just label any one individual as “the best”.

Back when it was LeBron it was pretty easy to identify he was the best. Now, I dont think it’s quite as simple.

Something I learned is that in this day and age or in this batch of players, we do not have a consistently insanely good player yet. Stinkers are normal, but a 2018 playoff LeBron does not exist yet.

Funnily, the closest thing right now is KAT, on consistency alone. He hasn’t taken over A game like Wemby, Shai or Jokic or other names, but what he is doing both offensively and defensively every night is outstanding.

Like you say though, there is no unstoppable best in the league player right now. People were trying to push Wemby for that and he is not. He is the end game defensive player though, but as an all around player + consistency + domination, he hasn’t reached that yet, nor no one right now.

Let’s go through the decades:

60s: Russell, Chamberlain

70s: Kareem (NBA), Dr. J (ABA)

80s: Bird, Magic

90s: MJ

00s: Kobe, Shaq, Duncan

10s: Bron, Steph

20s: ???

We’re in an era of unprecedented parity. There are 5 extremely good players right now (SGA, Jokic, Luka, Wemby, Giannis) but all of them have some kind of weakness. Jokic & Luka aren’t the best defenders, Wemby’s on an insane trajectory but lacks polish, SGA is an amazing player overall but not the type of guy that completely dominates a game in all aspects. Giannis has been struggling with injuries recently and seems to be on the way down, but if he’s healthy he’s still the best 2-way superstar.

It’s a team sport. Only the GOATs can separate themselves - and they still need a deep team to actually win, just look at MJ’s career.

The whole “best player” debate mostly exists for engagement. People love to argue about it because it’s fun, but right now, there’s nobody who’s clearly above the rest. Wemby definitely can become that guy, his potential is almost infinite. But as of now, he’s not quite there yet.

You’re a fraud if you don’t win the title, those are the rules.

It’s obviously Shamet

Yeah it’s a team sport so it’s all about matchups

Spurs are a bad matchup for OKC
Knicks are a bad matchup for Spurs
OKC is a bad matchup for Knicks (Knicks haven’t beat OKC since Nov 21st, 2022)

The last ten years have shown the importance of depth, role players, and the right coach. Having a star or two just doesn’t cut it anymore.

Karl Anthony Towns is the Best in the World

As all real basketball fans know, it takes a team to win. Despite MJ’s greatness, he couldn’t win until he had a team built around his strengths. Same goes for LeBron, Curry, Kobe, literally anyone ever.

Almost like it’s a team game

It’s a team game man

This should be a reminder that you can be amazing and a very special talent.

But guys like Kareem, Bird, Magic, Jordan, and LeBron don’t come around all the time where they come in and dominate from go and never stop dominating until they get old.

Wemby is still young and will continue to develop and could still grow into a player like that instead of what he is which is just really really really fucking good, but it’s not a guarantee to make it into that upper echelon.

MJ was a once in a lifetime phenom. The NBA’s incessant search to try and produce another MJ over the last 25 years has been kind of lame to be honest.

I wish they focused on great teams more. The NFL has become annoying with all the focus on QBs too.

I love college football because most of the discussion is still more team oriented

I think the truth is that we can still debate who is the best in the world but the guys who are the best in the world are not that much higher (if at all) to their peers anymore. And, to that end, a well coached, balanced roster will win the Finals nearly every time. Guys like Luka/Giannis/Jokic are tier 1 players in their prime and can cover a lot of imperfections, but still sort of need to capture lightning in a bottle to get all the way.

And as a card-carrying Bronsexual this should also reinforce how good LeBron was in his prime but that’s a discussion for another time.

I disagree.

This playoffs has shown how important team make up is with regards to matchups between teams. OKC might have wiped the floor with NYC but they don’t match up well with the spurs. Spurs may have trounced cavs but cavs didn’t match up with knicks. Etc. it’s is interesting how the probable true best team was okc but certain teams just don’t match up well against others. Happens in most teams sports

Just a lot of elite players but no definitive best in the world. Some people wont accept it but there is just no Lebron/MJ or above everyone else type of player right now and thats fine.

Wemby will probably get there but not yet.

What we are seeing is that KAT is the best in the world.

It’s a team sport. There’s a reason why some franchises have around 20 titles and most have 0 - 1 titles.

Every “best” and “all time great” either got drafted into an insanely beneficial scenario or bailed to join the best roster in the league.

There are a lot of elements to win a title. Having the best player is not even remotely close to being a crucial element.

Lot of mental gymnastics to avoid saying KAT is the best basketball player in the world

Matchups really matter.

Chet looks ok or goof against the rest the league. Wemby annihilates him.

KAT is proving a tough match up for Wemby at this stage of his career. Doubt that lasts long lol but KAT is seriously balling out right now.

Best team > Best player has already been stated but also the brutal mental matches between coach’s and their staff has been insane. That’s been the most enjoyable for me personally. Checkers < Chess < Go

The Wemby glazing definitely got out of hand. He’s definitely a highly, highly skilled player, but a lot of his success also comes from the fact that he’s at least 7’5“ and has a crazy reach. Package his skills in an 7’ player and I don’t think he’s in the MVP conversation so quickly, if ever.

I think it’s also detrimental to him, putting him in the “best in the world” category right now, because he still has a lot of learning and honing his skills to do.

Yeah, in 3-4 years he might legit be the best overall player in the world, but let’s let this kid play a couple seasons before we anoint him.

Best player in the world has often been tied up with championships and dynasties discursively.

Is Steph really better than Giannis or Jokic at an individual level? To me that’s very debatable. But pretty much everyone ranks Steph over both because of the Warriors dynasty and the four rings.

What makes this era of NBA basketball disorienting is that there are no dynasties or consistent finals teams, so its harder to have a clear-cut rankings of players based on team success.

Also with the second-apron, its not like a team can stack up to such an obvious extent above their competition to where we have to put an asterisk by a star player (i.e Lebron was still considered better than Steph in 2017 and 2018 despite the Warriors winning the title. Everyone could see that Lebron’s teams were just clearly outmatched).

Holy shit it’s almost like basketball is a team game. Who would’ve thought.

Good.

I do enjoy myself some parity

Narratives change continuously throughout the post season only to end in 1 eternal spot once all wrapped up.

Kolek has to be the best. Made the finals by cheering alone, that’s elite.

The league is approaching true parity.

Face of the NBA Karl Anthony Towns

Playoffs have always been about match ups.

The Knicks are showing that teamwork makes the dream work and that a team of dogs coming together through adversity and playing unselfish basketball together can beat anyone.

A bit too rough on Shai. One of the great game7 performances of all time, absolutely showed why he’s the second best player in the world. It was the rest of his team that was so much worse than the rest of the Spurs. Having your all-nba 2nd option would’ve helped for sure

From what I have seen, the knicks are just a great team. High emphasis on team. They are very balanced and well built. Nothing against those stars you mentioned, OP. In my opinion, the one type of team that can handle the best players is one that is very balanced. In the playoffs everything is about matchups and very well balanced teams just nixes out mismatches.

Well you can’t be the bitw without winning a title. KAT got next

It’s a team game, this is dumb.

You’re not wrong, but it’s also a team game. Expecting one person to win every time is kind of silly.

Yall should have watched less anime and played more team sports.

All it’s really done is show we actually lack an apex stars. None of the current stars are top 10 all time material and it shows. Jokic can’t beat 50 win teams, SGA, ant, victor, luka, Tatum have all failed to really establish themselves at head and shoulders above everyone else. They’ve all had success, some have titles, but just not the same level of dominance you’d expect.

Peak LeBron, Kobe, Jordan, Duncan, Shaq? They were just a force that couldn’t be stopped. It’s why they all have at least 4 titles and multiple finals mvps.

best player != best team. like if it’s a 1 v 1 street basketball then sure but it’s a full team, full 4 quarters game. you’re reaching if you think just because you have the best player in the world would mean an instant trophy.

Also someone can still be the best overall player even when they lose a playoff series and they don’t play their best

This was definitely a trap finals for the spurs. They beat the defending champs in a grueling 7 game series just to come up against a very well rested team with a 3 point shooting big man that wemby has to guard.

Basketball is a team sport. Any great player can be shut down by a great team with the right gameplan.

Legacy conversations/debates have been “dead” for a while (by dead I mean toxic and dumb)

The knicks are the best in the world. There fixed your problem for you.

To be fair, the Knicks are way more well rested than the Spurs. McDaniels and Kat are beasts though

Parity is amazing. The NBA feels like it’s coming back to the popularity of the 90s..

when boston won coupla yrs ago i thought they’d be a dynasty, well shet ma mouf

I’ll be honest, I was starting to get afraid we were gonna start seeing some ‘is KAT better than Jokic?’ posts

I’m on board with that. Just like how a lot of people have come around to the idea of the GOAT debate and all-time rankings making a lot more sense to use tiers, I think this playoffs has really highlighted that for BITW as well.

This is why individuals don’t win games, teams do.

Is Wemby decidedly below Kat individually? He had 29 pts on 52% shooting yesterday and always is a huge factor on defense (easily more than Kat on defense).

Kat has been huge for the Knicks but it’s just not black and white as Kat is doing a ton for the Knicks that aren’t measurable too

Almost like it’s a team sport or something huh.? Weird

When everybody on the team plays amazing for 2 months straight, it kinda makes everything else moot

I think it shows that depth matters and that performance is matchup dependent.

Teams are way more balanced now. The last couple (and this year’s champs) are more like the 04 pistons than typical champs

The best player to win from 24-26 isn’t the same as the previous bar of “best player to lead a championship team” because the teams are so balanced

Do people think it’s just one guy on the court? Lol

Its cos there’s no prime Lebron, or Steph/KD anymore. The current best in the world all have glaring flaws that get exposed in the playoffs

Too early for this. Wemby comes back and he’s the undisputed best player, as unlikely as that is it’s a non zero possibility. People really can’t help themselves. For what? Karma? Internet clout? I don’t understand. Why can’t we wait until the series is over?

Jokic didn’t get embarrassed the team lost bcuz of injuries his averages wer still good . Shai played like shi and wemby has so far this series gotten chewed up on defense by towns. But it aint over yet

Basketball is a game of skill, matchups and luck. Every championship team has all three.

This is why seeding and matchups are so important. The Nuggets would’ve beat the Spurs if they matched up and we would’ve never seen Spurs in the finals. The best 2 teams in the NBA are not in the finals right now and that’s hilarious.

The title is vacant none those dudes are best in the world right now

People bitchin’ about Jokićs rim protection are delusional. That is the only thing missing from his skillset portfolio. If he had that he would quite literally be the undisputed goat. That’s why rim protecting tasks in Denver have been delagated to power forwards, and it’s a proven winning formula. But for two consecutive playoffs AG is injured and out. And this year vs T-wolves he didn’t even have his backup Watson. Also Jamal has been dogshit for three consecutive playoffs. In elimination game he delivered nothing short of basketball terrorism : ⁴⁄₁₇ (0/2 3pts). And everyone could just collapse on Joker. That’s why his splits went down. Rudy stopped him? For real? Gimme a break

If the Knicks can close out the series the takeaway from this playoffs will be that Chet Holmgren had zero businesses getting All-NBA 3rd team over Karl Anthony Towns

Having two All-NBA players is better than one. Knicks have that. OKC and San Antonio don’t. Ajd Jokic doesn’t either. Not even close