2 starters in their 20s and a high pick would be kinda crazy.

This is pretty good ‘trade value’ but it doesn’t address team needs.

Team needs a POA defender who can be a secondary ball handler, and a Big who can space the floor offensively and provide competent defense. YMMV

Swapping Brown for Murphy is…an offensive and defensive downgrade. Okongwu is better than Queta but they cannot play together because of spacing. 8 overall might be great or might be meh.

100%, I’ll drive JB to Logan myself before the Pelicans or Hawks have a chance to change their mind.

I don’t love it. I think if we trade JB without getting a better player back, it needs to be because in 4 years it’ll leave us in a better place than we’re in now.

In this package, Murphy and Okongwu don’t do a ton for us there. 4 years from now both would be on new contracts that pay them more fairly, and they’re unlikely to get substantially better between now and then. Basically all of the upside in the deal is baked into the 8th pick. I probably pull the trigger with 2 firsts added, otherwise I don’t see how we wouldn’t just be better off running it back with the Jays.

I mean I’m on team keep brown, but Murphy okongwu and pick 8 is a pretty insane haul, that would be hard to pass up

Okongwu is the best young big any team could ask for. Switchable, good rim protector, can roll or pop. Him and Trey Murphy get us over the hump without even considering the 8th pick here.

I’m going to try to engage in these types of discussions a little bit more, even though I don’t like it.

I think what could sell me is using the 8th pick + maybe like our 2030 pick swap to get a legit efficient 2nd option.

Could you get Kevin Durant? Kawhi Leonard? Is there at least a 2nd Trey Murphy?

I would honestly stop supporting the Celtics IF this ends up being the case. Hard to support a franchise whose ownership doesn’t give af about winning.

I’m with Keith Smith on this one. If we try to dodge the tax next year too, I’ll pick up my torch and pitchfork to join you.

Until then, it’s way too premature to get upset with ownership

yes, at this rate we’re looking at first round exits every year with no lottery picks until Tatum loses his legs.

Trading giannis for Jaylen has nothing to do with finances, what are you talking about

They make basically the same money

I get that the league is more open right now, but that actually makes our failures worse, not better. when the bar is lower and we still consistently underperform in the postseason and can’t close games out, that’s not a talent issue.

yes, I agree we don’t need a superteam move, but acting like there’s a clear path forward when the same flaws show up every year is just wishful thinking.

People will be down about it until things actually change. We have the same coach and roster that we did a couple weeks ago. They have a history of choking. That will not change unless there are major changes. Those have not happened yet. Everything is hypothetical.

It’s because we underperformed back to back playoffs. Also we had a very bad record against good teams this year. I agree we don’t need a major shake up to get back to the Finals, but we do need a lot more help.

Money. Lots of money.

“Fire the coach I don’t like his personality or the way he looks” is not constructive criticism.

If you could provide some reasoning as to why you think Mazzulla is not a coach that can win (when he already has won so I disagree with you here) going forward, and can provide examples beyond the surface level “he blows leads” and “his rotations and timeouts suck” then you might get more people to listen to you.

If you’re so out on Mazzulla, give an example of a coach that you’d think could replace him and would be able to lead them to a championship next season. Maybe explain what that coach does differently than Mazzulla. You’d have a better chance of persuading people.

It doesn’t help that you keep tripling down on this nickname thing. It’s the equivalent of a 5 year old on a playground calling someone a “poopy head” and they call you weird and you just keep calling them a poopy head. Nobody is going to laugh or listen to what you have to say when you do that.

We’re all Celtics fans here, we all want to see the team win. No one’s saying you can’t be critical either, you just have to do a better job explaining why in a way that’s actually relevant to the basketball on the court. I’m not opposed to criticism, I’m opposed to nonsense insults that are a month after their season has ended with no new relevant information. Old man shouts at cloud energy.

At least the trade discussions float ideas of different players and we can have a conversation about it and discuss differences of opinions.

His on/off is bad, but that is entirely driven by his off numbers. His on numbers are actually pretty good.

The team does well when he’s on the floor, but they do incredibly well when he’s off.

Why is that? Well it’s a lot of different factors. Brown plays against starters and closers. Brown plays in the competitive portions of games. Our bench had the 2nd best NetRtg and has generally had one of the better NetRtgs year-in and year-out. Brown’s game is better suited for the playoffs where 1:1 offense and defense is more accentuated. I also think he can get lazy or inattentive while playing team defense, so that has historically hurt his defensive impact due to often being replaced by good team defenders.

He plays a style of basketball that is conducive to ugly stretches of basketball. Everything people have been projecting on to Jayson Tatum is exactly what Jaylen Brown is. Dribbles the air out of the ball, doesnt pass nearly enough for as much as he is given the ball (A stagnant offense kills plus minus, getting your team going and firing on all cylinders is important), forces difficult mid range shots, has dribble issues still when pressured and drum roll please…. Hes a supremely overrated defender especially in the team defense part of the game. On ball 1 on 1, hes one of the best guys in the league to take on guys his size and speed (The Lukas, the Shais, etc) but hes also kind of bad against the really fast guys on ball like Donovan Mitchell (Legit cooks JB every time), hes not very good at rotating on time on defense and his biggest issue of all is his off ball defense still. Hes gotten better over the years for sure but hes incredibly overrated because he still has those things as flaws, instead of being major flaws like they used to be, theyre more so minor flaws but they matter and it all culminates in advanced numbers knocking JB down a few pegs on the talent scale even though he is one of the best tough shot makers in the NBA and a hell of an on ball defender against a lot of the games best players.

There is a reason the mid range shot is no longer the go to play in the NBA unless youre a foul baiter who knows how to get to the line consistently off of them like Shai.

The way I put it, is if the game of basketball was a 1 on 1 sport, theres not many guys in the NBA that could beat Jaylen Brown. The problem is the game is a team sport and when your entire game is individualistic like JBs is, it can hurt the teams rhythm on both sides. A bad rotation and bad off ball positioning puts the rest of the team in a position to make up for JB. A few possessions of JB playing hero ball good or bad outcome means the rest of the team is rusty and not gaining a rhythm. When JB is off the court, the team is free flowing and it shows up in everyone else contributing. That is not to say JB isnt highly important because no matter what you need a guy who can make tough shots and or get to the rim at will (AKA why I want Giannis) and JB is very good at making tough shots but theres gotta be a better balance if JB wants analytics on his side.

We have a good bench. Our team’s bench generally outplayed the other team in the minutes when Jaylen was resting. That’s really all it is, we are a deeper team that’s less reliant on one players individual success

JB’s on/off can look underwhelming because Boston’s elite net rating is driven more by a Tatum-centric system, so the stat reflects lineup combinations and team depth more than his individual impact.

Too many casuals in there saying LeBron smh