They won’t hear it lmao. They’re clinging onto the ‘23 versions of the Jays and that they will bounce back next year to be contenders. The green goggles are deep into their sockets.

There’s also a disconnect that they think what we fear is we start losing and become a bottom half team which is just untrue. The bleaker outcome is we remain in the middle while JT is still here. We continue to have winning seasons but remain below true contention.

you aren’t allowed say it here.

Yeah, I’ve more or less accepted that our time is up, unless Tatum or Brown miraculously become MVP caliber players.

Given how unlikely that is, I think we either gotta enjoy the postseason runs we have with Brown and Tatum, or make a trade for a top level guy like Giannis.

If we do make a trade for Giannis, we’d need to be comfortable with the years of contention getting narrower. By this, I mean we become a better team with a better chance of contending for a championship, but we’d have a shorter timespan and probably need to tear it down and rebuild much earlier.

Compared to the scenario where we keep Brown and Tatum together. In that scenario we’d be able to experience postseason runs more frequently but it would be extremely doubtful we’d ever win a championship again with Brown+Tatum.

I think there’s just too many moving pieces required to win a championship with a Brown+Tatum core now:

1. First, you need one of Brown or Tatum (likely Tatum) to become a top 1-2 player in the league. Basically on the level of Shai, Jokic or Wemby. For reference, pre-Achilles tear the highest he finished was #4. SGA, Jokic, and Giannis were above him, and also this was before Wemby rose too. Assuming he experiences no decline post-tear, I think he would still remain in that 4-6 range. I don’t think that’s good enough for a championship in the current landscape.

2. We need to upgrade at the 1 and the 5, we do not have a starting caliber big man right now (unlike when we had Horford/Porzingis). We also do not have a solid point guard (like Jrue). Any player we can get in that mold would be very expensive, and we don’t really have too many moving pieces/salaries to make it happen.

At the same time, we also have to try and reset the repeater tax by staying under the luxury tax this season again. Even if we manage to find those two players, they would likely be getting paid a ton and thus limit our ability to remain competitive going forward if we go above the tax. We would really have to hope that Brad is able to find some diamond in the rough somewhere who is being underutilized.

Both paths to contention come with their own problems, but at the very least, we are at a pivotal junction. This offseason could be very indicative of what our FO thinks is the right way to go.

I think the damage has already been done for Zion since he was drafted by that dogshit NOLA franchise. It’s harder to change your ways once you’ve been in the league for a while.

Really goes to show the importance of your environment when it comes to developing as an NBA player. You gotta wonder if guys like JB, or even Wemby, end up being as good as they are on shitty franchises. Part of me thinks yes, but imagine Wemby somehow ended up on like the Wizards or Hornets or Sixers or something and they mismanaged him and he became a “what-if” story instead.

https://preview.redd.it/v5z98r6o5b5h1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07247d9ab6150d119388d36b8af3c906b573d03b

You don’t want to deal with Zions health concerns, just take Randle instead ???

Boston would kill Zion

People think Laker fans are our biggest rival, but Boston has no bigger rival than Patriot fans and fans who are afraid of being percieved as “green teamers”.

It’s either “these bums didn’t even win 90% of their games” or “this team has nothing any other team would ever want”.

I think if recent history has taught us anything, it’s that the Knicks/Spurs will have extended themselves too far this year to repeat next year and it only makes sense that we would be favorites considering that.

How did Vegas do this year? How about last year? Thanks.

I don’t know why people act like OKC was going to save us from this happening. Even if OKC won, they were very injured. It didn’t look like Ajay and JDub were coming back healthy any time soon. Look at the stats from Game 7…it was SGA and no one else. And Chet turned into Ben Simmons in the WCF so imagine what Kat and Mitch would’ve done to him. It was clear that the Thunder weren’t at their best and I honestly think they needed to be to take down this Knicks team. Either way, the Knicks were going to have an advantage - they play an inexperienced team that they match up very well against OR they play a team that’s injured and missing 2 of their best players. Every champion team has things work out well for them and the Knicks undeniably had everything fall perfectly into place for them at the right moment.

lol you’re literally complaining that we aren’t expected to suck for the foreseeable future.

What is it that you people even want?

We haven’t had a favorable draft pick in 6 years, but we went to the Finals and won a title in that time. We also keep finding diamonds in the rough in Queta, Kornet, Hauser, Walsh, Scheierman, Hugo, and maybe more

I think we’ll figure out how to keep the talent rolling in

You can tell he’ll be back to where he was.

The second injury is definitely scary. The aggressive and highly durable Hayward coming back passive and injury-prone is definitely sitting in the back of my mind.

But IF (and it’s a big if) he stays healthy I honestly think he’ll be better.

He hadn’t had an offseason in years. Then he was forced to sit on the sidelines and watch a lot of tape. The time off seems to have helped him mature his playmaking.

Plus, having time to shake the rust will hopefully mean he hits next season running. Whereas someone like Haliburton will likely need more time to get back into the swing of things.

Brad ends up working at the margins this offseason instead of making a massive move.

What he actually said seems to point in this direction.

People loved the “I’m pissed” quote from the post-season presser, how he brought up our poor record against top teams and how he was disappointed with the final result.

But he also praised the internal player development and said he thought the team looked good when whole.

“If you would have told me last summer that we would have won 56 games in the regular season; that the young guys would all become contributors; that people would have great impacts all up and down our roster … I would have been thrilled with those results.”

…

“I don’t take for granted how good we’ve been when we’ve been full. When we’ve been full and all on the court and playing together, we’ve been a good basketball team. Those are hard to get, and so we just have to be better around the margins.”

I have to agree with you! The only glaring apparent need that we have as currently constructed is a big that can run the floor and bang ‼️

I feel like every single person has underestimated the fact that JT was not 💯 in the playoffs. Not only that but the fact that he came back and looked good had people not fully understanding that he didn’t have the full amount of time he needed to be in the flow come playoff time.

Quetta had a great season and it will help him to be better next season. He’s actually a perfect off the bench center at this point in his career. We have to get a center that is more physical on the defensive end. We need a guy that can body up and wear down the other teams big. For the style of basketball we play it’s imperative to have a player like that.

We matchup well across the entire league in every other category except center. I’m not sure how we will be able to get the type of player we need. Perhaps we will have to give up a couple wings to get that done. It’s the one position that we have an abundance and even though we may not like it(most of us have a an affinity for our wing players) wings are still some of the most coveted players in the league.

There’s a path to getting what we need and I’m sure Brad will figure it out. It might entail us giving up a wing we all like and having one of our deeper bench guys taking another leap. Perhaps a player like Harper jr. Taking another leap forward.

One thing is for sure we aren’t winning anything unless we get a better front court. We can run the exact same team with a better Center and be contenders but we aren’t getting far with a Queta/Garza front court.

A lot of it hinges on how durable JT will be moving forward. We saw that he’s still capable of being an all-nba caliber player in a short time but how many games will he be playing in a season in the future? As for the supporting cast, I think we’re still below contender status largely because of recency but also because of the staleness of those who remained after our championship run.

People say our title team was stacked, but always include Porzingis in that calculation when he barely played in the playoffs. Personally, I think Queta has adequately replaced Kornet.

So then what are we missing? Jrue Holiday and old man Horford. Jrue was so important because he was another weapon when things got bogged down. We are really missing that efficient offensive release valve. Horford was a switchable big that could space the floor and open up the paint for guys to drive.

I think that’s what we are missing. I think it may take 2 off-seasons to get both, but we have enough to get both. We may even be able to get one for free this off-season

I think people have let an early exit against a team with a top 3 center completely reframe their evaluation of this year.

With a barebones roster, and Tatum out most of the year, FO still pieced together a near-top 5 offense and defense.

The Jays can win it all together, and we don’t need a “superteam” around them - just more healthy contributors.

There’s a point of no return in playoff series. Teams that go down 0-2 or 1-3 are severely disadvantaged. No team has ever won from 0-3. That means G4 can sometimes just be a formality. It also means G5, G6 and G7 sometimes don’t even happen.

So I think teams would put a greater emphasis on the earlier games. There’s no point trying to get homecourt advantage for a G6 that might not happen.

And the last thing you want is to concede a shock G1 upset, which is more likely to happen on the road. Ideally you want that 2-0 advantage before you face their crowds.

I think part of being the home team is ensuring you’re more likely to sell tickets in your arena for more games. As such, no matter how you dice it, Game 5 should be a home game and the games should be 2-2 for the first 4 games.

Stop pairing Tatum and Brown together. They are not the same and there are levels to this. You most definitely could replace Brown with about 20 players and we’d be much better

My favorites are the people who genuinely believe Tatum and Brown can play the same way as someone like Brunson and they just don’t want to, or even better, the ones who think the only reason they won’t is because Mazzulla won’t let them.

I also find it odd with people wanting Joe fired while reminiscing about how good Brad was. How long was Brad’s leash? And he had a ton of talent on his rosters. Brad never won a title. Joe has had full control of this team for 3 years and won a title. Give him a couple more years.

All of this. 

I mean, 5 ECF in 7 seasons, two finals appearances, and one championship since we got both Jays? What’s not to appreciate? 

Being able to be in contention matters, too. So many teams are just trying to get a playoff appearance, they’ve been in such a drought.

Watching Celtics City put that all in perspective to me. It’s so difficult to win and not merely getting to the finals, but winning it all, relies heavily on a team being healthy, too. And a measure of luck (ex. Pierce’s wild free throw falling in that pivotal Game 7 vs LeBron in ‘08).

he’s literally never lost

If Tatum put up those shooting splits, the narrative would be that the team carried him

nah fam, under Kung Fu Joe we’d blow a 20-point lead before anyone even gets a chance to “take over.”

Beyond Murphy definitely not giving you 80% of what JB does, spending less isn’t really a reason for us to downgrade anymore. We’re comfortably below the tax as is.

I think there’s a conceptual framework there, we’d likely want older players back to stay more competitive, but the Pels would need to massively sweeten the pot to make it worth it. I don’t think there’s a match because I don’t think that makes sense for the Pels, but you never know because I don’t think Weaver knows what’s right for the Pels either.

80% of the PPG doesn’t mean 80% of what Brown does.

He can shoot 3s and dunk at a really high level, but he doesn’t really create his own shot at all. He’s a 3rd option, and most of his work is done off-ball. 46% of his shots come with 0 dribbles, and 77% of his shots are assisted.

Think of him less as a budget Brown and more of a supercharged Hauser. Those occasional big games from Hauser where he hits a tonne of shots and even takes you by surprise by making a couple of plays himself, that’s what we’d be hoping for.

If the Pelicans players were all as good as they looked on paper, they’d be better than a 26-win team.

And on a good team, you expect guys like that to take on smaller roles. Like Simons, Murphy III would be a ~15 ppg guy for us.

It’s a function of the Knicks defense and the way they use their bigs. They take away the paint and say “if you want to win you have to make a lot of bullshit threes” and then leave those bullshit threes basically unguarded to bait teams into taking them.

Jerami Grant from Portland?

Portland got Jerami Grant for a Milwaukee 1st round pick, back when Milwaukee’s 1sts were guaranteed to land #30.

He’s actually an example of why you don’t need to spend extreme amounts for good-but-not-great players. You can always get guys like him for cheaper somewhere else.

And it’s not like he’s gotten better, younger or cheaper since then.

It’s really hard to gauge the market, the price of players constantly fluctuates, but it would be really poor from Brad to pay so much over market value for a guy like Grant.

AG or Cam Johnson from the Nuggets.

We could genuinely offer Denver a bag of peanuts for Cam and they would consider it. They need to free up money for Watson and are considering a salary dump to make it happen.

I was really high on him, and I still sorta am, but he hasn’t worked out as well as they’d hoped.

We had interest in Gordon at the deadline, but that was honestly probably part of our hopes to salary dump Anfernee Simons to duck the tax before we went with Vucevic. He’s good, but he’s struggling to stay healthy atm.

White is better than every player you listed for trading bad playoffs but he’s still really damn good

Useless.

Idc about dynasty talk I just don’t want the Knicks to win, anything can happen next year in the West that’s the least of my worries just focus on building the best team possible to contend in the east. The west will take care of itself in the end.

Sure wonder what 2 big events in the 90s stopped the Cs from contending more

08, 10, 22, 24 is 4 finals

Trade was also done because of Rudy, who himself ends up being rendered useless at some point in every playoffs despite making tons of money. Trying to find the perfect fit with him when he’s eventually the biggest issue even though he raises your floor.

Donte Divencenzo is really good too, just injured rn. He was IMO the Knicks best player in the playoffs before he got traded, he went nuclear vs the Pacers.

The idea behind J Randle for Kat is that J Randle is a mobile bruising scorer on one side of the court and Ant is a mobile bruising scorer on the other side, they went way too all in on Rudy Gobert for some reason so I guess they felt they couldn’t trade him or something idk.

J Randle and Ant is in theory a great pair but the NYK KAT we have rn is a lot better than the Minnesota KAT we used to have, probably because it feels like he fits this team so much better.

With hindsight the Wolves have a much better team, starting 5 is probably KAT at the 5, McDaniels at 4, NAW at the 3, ANT at the 2, whoever you feel like at the one. That’s spacing + rim pressure + defense.

Sadly they aren’t time travelers and the front office isn’t that competent, they traded a “haul” for Rudy but the haul ended up being pretty weak in retrospect, unless one of the draft picks goes nuclear.

Naw is a good player but they let him go anyway lol so it was pointless

4 years. After 2030 things get dicey with the payroll and the Jays will be ³²⁄₃₃ and teams often aren’t contenders if your best players are that old. We’ll need someone younger to pass the torch to or probably blow it up and rebuild. The oldest guys to win a FMVP that aren’t top 10 players of all time are Havlicek (who had MVP Cowens), Dirk, Iguodala (who had MVP Curry), and Wes Unseld. Nobody else 32 or older has won FMVP, and nobody would win it over the Jays as currently constructed.

I would say 3-4 years is the max with this pairing to get it done.

Because we refused to tank this year, definitely

If that’s the case, then we need to look at contending with the group we’ve got rather than racking up a decade-long pick deficit to try and build around a new face of the franchise.