No shots at Zach Lowe, he’s great too especially in these playoff recap pods, but this is why I miss Russillo. Russillo was willing to talk about anything and Bill loves to swerve into random topics.

☝️🤔☝️

It happens at least 3 times every podcast episode, 1 of which is when Bill brings up Giannis trade on every episode.

no this sub must analyze everything he does negatively and pine for ruscillo. It just must.

He does totally agree. This is kind of not important, but it’s wild that so many people listened to this and came away thinking Lowe wasn’t on board. He literally asks how much Arsenal made to highlight their cheapness. 

That’s what I thought. Man that CBA is brutal

Ya and this is why its simply over for Bucks West also known as the Nuggets. A lot of people don’t like it but they dug their grave in previous seasons trading assets and giving bad contracts. Unless another team swoops in like Batman with an insane trade explicitly to save them then they’re just gonna get older and worse. Every team in the west though should just block the Nuggets number unless they’re talking about trading Jokic lol

We’re just in that moment where a lot of people are still coping and believing but the writing is on the wall for Denver

Thanks CJ McCollum for agreeing to a joke of a system that’s destroying teams.

They had no Peyton Watson and Aaron Gordon was a shell of himself in the few games he played. The sky isn’t falling imo.

The “handcutfing your team to keep from having to handcuff your team” piece. The Nuggets are the best to ever do it

The 2nd apron is crushing. Not only is the repeater tax incredibly high, but you lose pretty much every lever to improve the team outside of one for one trades. Can’t even get players in the buyout. This is a roster that clearly needs to be revamped anyways.

I’m sorry, but none of those tradeoffs you mentioned are comparable to the value of keeping Watson

All you’re talking about is saving the owner money. Who cares if they’re in the second apron for a season? That pick unfreezes after a few years of being out of the apron. They will be able to let Cam Johnson walk, waive and stretch the final year of Naji, and trade Murray if this next season doesn’t work out.

The CBA basically encourages contending teams to dip in for a year with very little penalty.

I believe we can sign both Spencer and THJ for above minimum because we save bird rights no? Or at least Spencer?

Every team can use a wing that can shoot the 3, create some looks himself, and is a versatile defender. His floor is probably same percentage of cap as Jaden McDaniels got.

I don’t know if Simmons is on the wrong end of cap stuff or not these days. But you’re not giving him enough credit here. Simmons and Lowe are absolutely correct when they point out that financially the tax is nothing. It’s got nothing to do with affording it. 

The Nuggets situation isn’t as simple as spending more and being locked into the same team as last year. They can pay to retain Watson, bet on improved value from him at a position in which they’re in dire need and a healthier season next year from Jokic. Most of the penalties for the Nuggets are very low level options for teams who are competing anyway. You can certainly hit a home run towards the back end of the first round or get a good buyout player, but these are normally not high powered additions. 

I don’t think they have the luxury of trying to hold onto that flexibility by constantly avoiding the second apron. Jokic and crew aren’t getting younger, all this chucklefucking around is just killing his prime time.

It is about money too though. Denver ownership has always been cheap. Conversations like this is exactly why ownership wanted these apron rules. It’s a built in excuse for them to not spend more.

To be clear, I’m not saying anybody who is pointing out the apron issues is wrong. Far from it. But we can acknowledge that while simultaneously acknowledging that certain ownership groups (like this one) have always been averse to spending more.

No he’s right. You only have a small window to win, it may already be closed. Thunder and Spurs aren’t going anywhere, they’re maybe getting better. The Nuggets need to be better now, not in 3 years.

Either that or blow the entire thing up.

Simmons has forgotten more about basketball than you’ll ever know. His book of basketball is filled with an insane amount of information about the history of the NBA.  

He has talked about the current salary cap about 50 times on his show. He mentions the second apron like once a show. 

No, it is about the money here. Or at least that’s what Simmons is claiming.

The second apron is not some big secret that only the hardcore fans know about. Its a very basic and well known aspect of the modern NBA. Bill Simmons know about this basic detail of NBA rules. In fact, Simmons extensively talked about the consequences of the 2nd apron elsewhere in the podcast.

What Bill is bringing up is the fact that the Kroenkes are cheap. This is made pretty clear if people actually watched this clip in context, where Bill and Zach talk about the Kroenkes being cheap.

So Bill basically believes that the Kroenkes pass on some of these contracts out of cheapness rather than 2nd Apron issues. I’m not going to pretend that I know the Nugget’s cap situation to tell whether or not his claim is plausible in this specific case. But I do know that the Kroenkes are famously cheap in general, so I’m not dismissing Bill’s claim out of hand.

I guess the thing is that you sort of accept the consequences later to utilize your window while you have one. Jokic, Murray, and Gordon aren’t getting younger

They dont have any picks or room so staying under the apron does very little for them.  In this case it is just the kroenkes being cheap af.  This sub hates Simmons so much theyll defend a cheapskate billionaire though

He is just mad his favorite player’s team is going to be a level below okc and sas

Bill is such a casual, don’t get why he’s so big on the sub

You’re so close to getting it

They’re boxed in now because of all of the previous money saving moves they’ve done (see the Jamychal Green trade in 2022 where they gave up a 2027 first and the right to dump Green to OKC for the 30th pick; or Reggie Jackson in 2024 where they had to attach 3 seconds; or the Faried and Darrel Arthur dump with a protected first in 2018).

Sure they got Peyton Watson in 2022 with that pick, but they could’ve gotten it for much better value than a lightly protected future first.

Ofc he knows that. Denver has 2 to 3 chances with Jokic. Fuck flexibility.

the owners voted on the second apron lol it absolutely is about the money

I can’t stand either one of these dudes in this video.

Denver already has a difficult cap situation right now. The question now is now is what they might sacrifice to lessen their tax bill. The Nuggets going into the second apron would restrict some of their trading power, but it wouldn’t mean they couldn’t get themselves out of it in future years. 

Calling it the same roster is not a fair take on the situation. If the Nuggets pay Watson they’re probably counting on him being available for them in the playoffs next year. Gordon is probably a riskier bet, but Jokic has generally been healthy and his defense might look better going forward. There’s an argument to be made here about internal improvement and better injury luck. With the status of the current NBA every team needs to hope for the latter. 

We were missing AG and Watson, but the Wolves also lost Edwards and Divencenzo partway through. So it was approximately equal footing imo

that was the wolves actually

The issue is if they commit NOW, we are surely not seeing Jokic on a competitive Nuggets team for the rest of his career once they have to break it up. A kid showing “flashes” can’t be worth nuking the greatest era of their franchise

A vast majority of NBA teams have never spent into the equivalent of the 2nd apron, even when the only penalty was financial. The 2nd apron is a boogeyman owners have for GMs to expain why they’re not spending money they were never going to spend anyways.

Well, they moreso wanted it so that another Warriors type dynasty would be impossible. It’s just a “sweet” secondary effect of the apron

I mean what can we do really. I was stoked about the signings last off season and they didn’t really pan out. Injuries were horrible all year so maybe the roster just needs some rest. But we likely aren’t getting much better and OKC and the Spurs are probably gonna get a fair amount better.

There is a bit more nuance to it than that. They didn’t invest until they fully owned it, once they were able to buy out the other owners they actually began spending money. They are calculated with their money.

False. After taking full ownership in 2018-2019, they analyzed the club from the top down and have since invested significantly and have said they will continue to do so.

They had no incentive to fund the club before that while they were partial owners since there was a power struggle behind the scenes

Plus you can’t compare football where there is no ceiling to spending to basketball and its apron complexities. Kroenkes have proven themselves to be great owners and it’s clear if you look at how the Rams, Nuggets and Arsenal’s operations are run

The parity started way before the new rules got implemented in 2024. I’d understand the outrage more if not for the fact the league had already saw 7 unique champions in the past 7 years preceding the 2nd apron getting implemented. I will stand by the fact we simply don’t know if the aprons are too restrictive or not. The Celtics are the only real casualty, and they were spending an insane amount even for a pre-2nd apron team

And the KD warriors only happen because Steph is underpaid  because of the injuries he suffered early in his career, sudden increase of Cap space and KD wanting to take the hardest road. 

Hey Castle was only the 4th overall pick. Getting Harper and, of course especially, Wemby was the generational lottery luck.

yeah and now star players are celebrated when they take pay cuts, the owners must love that

That’s definitely it. It’s honestly something the union should have seen through immediately and voted against it. Although there could have been an acknowledgement of that and owners gave some other concessions or something, but I’m not sure what those concessions would have been.