[Highlights] Kobe Bryant’s insanely difficult shotmaking, with bad spacing, in the 2010 Western Conference Finals vs the Phoenix Suns. Kobe averaged 33.7 PPG, 7.2 RPG, 8.3 APG on 52/43/88% shooting splits.
This is not an SGA hate thing I swear but clips like this really show the impact of foul baiting on the quality of play.
Watching a guy use footwork and angles to navigate in difficult space in order to actually try to make shots is so refreshing.
Half of these today would be the shooter throwing himself into the defenders body and chucking the ball at the backboard to go to the line.
I mean they’re not exactly likely to show foul baiting in a highlights clip. Kobe did it a decent bit too, however, he was also very skilled at doing what you described. His footwork is a work of art.
Kobe absolutely had foul baiting as part of his game. But it was only “part of his game”. I can see at least 10 shots in this clip where SGA would have fallen on his back from the contact and gotten free throws.
Major part of it is because is because SGA simply does not have the strength and athleticism Kobe had, so this is his best available path towards perennial MVP contention. But that doesn’t mean I have to like watching it.
Also pre Harden. The players were targeting a basket and possibly an and 1 and if it happened a foul and some free throws. These days that order is flipped
The difference is that it felt like Kobe was always still trying to make the shot when he was fouled.
If Kobe and Gasol strategically fell when going for jumpers and rebounds like Shai and Chetanyahu do they would’ve won more than 2 rings together
Well Kobe did do that at 1:58 though lol
But I do see your larger point!
So he did it 1 time in a 4 minute video?
In a selectively edited to video that shows shotmaking rather than foul baiting? I think it’s more telling that foul baiting STILL snuck through.
Kobe did it too. Not the same obviously, but it’s part of what made him great.
Foul baiting was never the issue. It’s collapsing to the floor like you’re a baby fawn fresh out of the womb that’s the asinine part. Baiting an opponent into a foul is great offense. Having fake gelatin knees on the other hand…
Shai is miserable to watch sometimes in his own unique way, I’ll give you that.
But there were plenty of annoyed fans that watched their teams get eliminated at the playoffs by Kobe living at the free throw line, on what I’m sure they feel were some nonsense fouls. He’s still above Shai in career average FTA’s despite Kobe’s average being weighed down by his post-achillies years.
that collapsing is a sign that getting 2 free throws is the highest priority. The previous generation was trying to get 1 free throw
he thinks he had a gotcha there lmaoo come on
Kobe would do the pump fake and jump into the defender thing if they jumped all the time. He also abused the rip through for a couple of seasons and then stopped almost entirely that never made sense to me.
Modern players literally learned how to foul bait from Kobe.
SGA has said that Kobe was his favorite player growing up, and he modeled his game after him in many ways.
Kobe openly talked about manipulating the refs.
You got one clip of Kobe getting the defender off his feet and jumping into it, I could grab ten of Shaivonte doing that from the Spurs series alone. The point isn’t that Kobe never did it, it’s that SGA plays ref ball. Foul baiting isn’t a tool in his arsenal, it’s his whole catalog, he does it on almost every possession. We don’t have a problem with a player who gets a foul call or tricks a defender into contact. We have a problem with a player who does it as their primary offensive move
Kobe was trying to get 1 free throw not 2 as a priority then a bucket then 2 free throws in that order
Lol, did Kobe fall? Anyway, this was well after Harden was making foul baiting an art.
Take it from someone who watched Kobe his whole career. He was no where close to what players do these days. He’d draw an occasional foul, but he didn’t do it much. No one in his era did.
As one man says it, “don’t hate the player, hate the game”
they told me with a straight fucking face SGA is better than this dude
People who say that definitely never watched Kobe play and just look at box scores
people here just started watching recently and it shows when people say this regarded shit
Reddit probably skews young so yeah, I bet over half this sub has never seen Kobe actually play a full game.
I’m not a Kobe fan (Kings fan, Shaq>Kobe) and it’s not even close; Kobe would dominate modern SGs
I think newer fans just don’t realize how great Kobe was, there’s a reason even Kobe haters have him at minimum in the top 10-12 ever
I once heard someone call Kobe “Jamal Crawford with rings.”
Damn, proof that human brains are getting smaller lmao
The fucking disrespect.
Heard the same about Shai, seen people say he’s just Crawford
Who the fuck is they
You know who they are. Unless you’re one of them.
I heard them, it was from a Mr. Straw Man
I don’t like SGA’s game, but I do see similarities with him and Kobe. The funny thing I think the biggest difference is how they jump and land. SGA does a lot of jumping into defenders and basically built his game on falling to the ground after each shot. Kobe always seems to be jumping back to create space and trying to land on his feet (a wild concept /s)
He’s a better efficient scorer and has 2 MVP
Acting like Kobe didn’t have the worst ever finals performance by a superstar in 2004, and gave up in game 7 against the suns in 2006
You’re a nerd, go outside
i just gardened for 3 hours man
nobody said that
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1qu0z8t/comment/o371t82/?context=3&utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
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First guy didn’t say he was better, second and third are dumbasses. Let me rephrase that, nobody said that except the most insane Thunder fans
buddy I’ve seen it dozens of times this year, OKC fans were putting Shaivonte next to Jordan in comparisons and getting mad that Kobe could be considered his rival. They’re out of their damn minds
It’s insane but I wouldn’t get too worked up over a fanbase glazing their superstar player. Y’all did the same with Steph, we did the same with Bron
Yes but both of us were right! OKC fans are wrong!
Now you’re just worked up and saying shit
Nah, there were definitely Jordan comparisons for this year. I saw a few last year, but they were usually shot down. This year tho, there were definitely more saying he’s the best guard after Jordan. And that he’s Jordan of the modern era.
A lot of ppl were saying that all year
If they are I haven’t seen many of them. Especially not now
You could make this very same complication for Shai lol
This sub gets so lost in the heat of the moment like OKC’s two other ball handlers haven’t been out since game 1
but with more diving…
Shai does not have this many shots over double teams in a full post season, let alone a single series. This clip also only looks at jump shots, which is Shai’s strongest point compared to Kobe. Once we get into acrobatic lay ups and thunderous dunks that require athleticism, Shai is a toad compared to the prince.
SGA gets results, but there is almost zero entertainment value in watching him play without a score board when compared to Kobe.
This is the main reason why I hate these comparisons for numbers like true shooting percentage in the three-point era to then.
Guys shooting wide open spot up corner threes or driving to the basket for layups because there’s so much space is not the same degree of difficulty of a clogged interior bc of two bigs and threes not yet being prevalent and zero spacing while doubled.
It’s why I think Kobe is one of those players who would be better in the modern era than he was.
Lebron vs the Magic in 2009 East Finals 38 8 and 8 on 48% fg
Kobe vs Magic in 2009 NBA Finals 32 5 and 7 on 43% fg
Lebron would be better in the modern era if he was in his prime bigger driving lanes more shooting around him which complements his skill set of drive and kick . He wasn’t even fully developed offensively yet then and was more efficient than Kobe vs the same opponents.
Nobody said he would be better than LeBron… and even if they did you’re not changing any minds with a sample size of one series
Trust me there’s people in this comment section who would say it
Well thankfully we have you to handle those hypothetical commenters.
Lebron outta nowhere lol
Who mentioned LeBron besides you?
Getting easier shots/not taking these tough shots is a skill too
Not even everyone in that era took these doubled/forced shots
Are there stats that can account for the era by taking into account league average percentages?
Like baseball has ops+ or something like that
Well said, I was thinking the same thing. Sure these are mostly bad shots in the 2020s
But that doesn’t really matter. You don’t have 5 out and guys taking a dozen 3pt step backs a game back then
And yes, even for his time, Kobe was a bit less efficient than you’d love. But as we see every year, deep in the playoffs there is actually huge value in having a guy who can generate and hit very hard shots on his own consistently. And the proof is in the pudding — 5 chips, it worked.
no one kobe is measured against is taking wide open corner threes on the regular. steph faced coverage like this his entire prime and had way better numbers the entire time
This series was so physical. Kobe torched Phoenix because of Raja Bell even though he wasn’t there. This series made it known that Kobe wasn’t playing around. He hated Phoenix and Utah
Amazing he can take shots without falling down like a toddler!
he was so smooth. one of the GOATS
I don’t ever want to hear SGA compared to Kobe again in my life
On a post about Kobe and you’re thinking about Shai, weird
Yup. Smooth, technical, but also aggressive at the same time.
What Shai wishes he was
holy shit, it is bonkers how lax dribbling has gotten. Kobe used to be one of the original, “all he does is carry” guys (along with AI, and yes, people were saying that well before them, but that was a big era shift between old school and new school enforcement), but seeing this again not even that long ago is like whiplash lol
it is wild to see just how crisp his dribbling still is and how little blatant carrying he is doing compared to now where every single dribble up the court looks like they are holding a bowl of soup
The NBA rules drift is criminal. It’s barely basketball. We are all just frogs being boiled.
it really is, same thing with offensive players slamming into defenders and pushing off nonstop and the defense getting called for a foul lol, just a completely different sport
I like how ppl think the best dribblers, passers, and shooters are in the NBA. It’s literally just the tall ones. There are more -skilled- players all over the world. NBA players aren’t as skilled as they get credit for. Durant and SGA are incapable of dribbling without carrying the ball.
This is a baffling take
Red panda is carrying less than some players.
Also the amount of contact for a foul and the actual focus to actually make a basket ie they wanted to score a basket first and foremost not a free throw either 2 pts or an and 1
Kobe’s best performances always came in the WCF. He stopped many greats from even making a Finals appearance.
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Are we fr acting like Kobe never sold calls
Not to this degree
Of course he did. Kobe:
made a point of reading the referee’s handbook,” Bryant said in his book “The Mamba Mentality: How I Play.” “One of the rules I gleaned from it was that each referee has a designated slot where he is supposed to be on the floor. If the ball, for instance, is in place W, referees X, Y and Z each have an area on the court assigned to them.” “When they do that, it creates dead zones, areas on the floor where they can’t see certain things. I learned where those zones were, and I took advantage of them. I would get away with holds, travels, and all sorts of minor violations simply because I took the time to understand the officials’ limitations,” he added.
made a point of reading the referee’s handbook,” Bryant said in his book “The Mamba Mentality: How I Play.” “One of the rules I gleaned from it was that each referee has a designated slot where he is supposed to be on the floor. If the ball, for instance, is in place W, referees X, Y and Z each have an area on the court assigned to them.”
“When they do that, it creates dead zones, areas on the floor where they can’t see certain things. I learned where those zones were, and I took advantage of them. I would get away with holds, travels, and all sorts of minor violations simply because I took the time to understand the officials’ limitations,” he added.
Players literally learned this shit from Kobe. Lol
i cannot believe shai went back in time and impersonated GOATbe to justify his future antics, this is so sad
He said “zero” flopping, which implies that he rarely or never sold calls
Flopping does not equal foul baiting, when will people learn this.
I’m saying the same thing, but it doesn’t stop people from conflating the two with players nowadays. If you bait, you’ve probably flopped at least a couple times
Ok fair enough. Kobe had a 20 year career, he probably flopped a few times.
It’s a fucking highlight reel of made baskets lmao
Average attention span is 5 milliseconds
this fact is slaughtering dudes brains in this thread lol
That’s an important distinction: Kobe, Jordan, they sold calls sometimes. SGA is a flopping, flailing embarrassment, pretty much all the time
Everyone sells calls, he doesn’t fall to the ground like he forgot how his legs work on ever god damn possession.
Well neither does SGA but that doesn’t stop you from pretending he does
Oh you don’t say…
Overall Shooting: Falls on 17.4% of all his field goal attempts (over 4x the rate of a player like Victor Wembanyama at 4.2%).
Fouled Shots: Hits the floor on 51.4% of his shot attempts where he is fouled.
Non-Fouled Shots: Goes down on 10.7% of his shots that do not result in a foul
Didn’t know 17% was 100%. Wow
Didn’t fall once on a jumpshot? Smh…Kobe couldn’t hang in the modern era
His entire career was difficult shot making lol
key part “shot making”
his order of priority
and 1
a basket
a foul (2 ft)
which is not the modern order of priorities
The spin away from double teams. I feel like no one does that anymore.
Mfers want to compare SGA to this killa
Nobody does, except for delusional OKC fans.
He is so stupid. He should’ve just hooked his arms around the defender and waited for Free Throws. /S
Given his tragic death, I think Kobe discourse is weirdly split between those who consider him in the top 5 players of all time or not in the top 20. He’s somewhere in between but as someone who watched him play live and this series specifically, he is by far the best tough, contested shot maker of all time. The man was absolutely unreal at his peak
Paul George voice: Those are bad shots
I watched this era and even as someone who wasn’t a huge Kobe fan, I can just appreciate it more than before because I can picture certain stars these days foul baiting like there is no tomorrow.
This makes me sad
Why isn’t he falling on the floor after every shot?
Is he stupid?
He should have been falling down on these. What is he stupid?
I feel like Kobe did foul bait, but it was more like faking to get hit without falling.
it doesn’t count he was playing against plumbers
God.. could you image what Kobe would have to say about today’s game 😔
Kobe would’ve fit in the current era seamlessly with the space todays stars get to have around them
That double clutch in front of grant hill is nuts
Elite shotmaking
I mean yeah he hit tough shots, but in like 3⁄4 of them he had multiple open players
he was my favorite it’s not even close
The best tough shot maker ever
Kobe B Bryant
The b stands for bucket
I used to hate playing against this mfer in the same way I hated playing against Dirk. Fun times.
A lot of these really aren’t that difficult Kobe’s good at creating space
Who won those series?
The Lakers TEAM , Pau Gasol , Lamar Odom , Trevor Ariza , Derek Fisher, Andrew Bynum are significantly better than Mo Williams , Delonte West , Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Anderson Varejao and Booby Gibson , that’s the main difference not Kobe being better than LeBron.
Sub will say with a straight face Tim was better and he probably put up 11⁄7 in a different series lol
Kobe and Duncan”s games were just different. As a pure scorer and ball handler, Kobe was better for sure. As a defensive anchor and unselfish teammate, Duncan was better, while still being an offensive weapon. There is a reason Duncan had a .600 win percentage every year he was in the league.
Both had extremely high BBIQ, but there is a reason Duncan is called the Big Fundamental. He was so technically sound.
You can make an argument for either one, they are both inner circle HOFers. Choosing either one to build your franchise around at the turn of the century you can’t really go wrong. I prefer Duncan as he was the better team culture guy, but I’m also biased.
The fact you got downvoted for this. r/nba is hilarious.
This defense is not comparable to what Castle is doing to SGA
Just pass the ball ffs
What years of passing to Smush Parker and Chris Mihm does to a mf
pass??