Yeah if you swapped Mobley and Duren in this series it’s probably already wrapped up in favor of Detroit. He’s been so crucial to you guys taking the 3-2 lead.

People who say that dont watch games. Clearly mobley has problems at times but there isnt any offensive skill he just plain lacks.

What, Mobley literally walks the ball up court 50% of the time lol. Who says that about him?

Mobley isn’t perfect but he’s way way way better than duren and does a lot of things really well. Duren has been useless while Mobley has been putting up some great statlines and making some huge plays. I understand Mobley has flaws and that people complain about them but he’s a really good young player showing his value this series while Duren has gotten completely exposed.

Ppl say that about Mobley? I’ve not seen him much but I never really got that impression when I did watch him play.

Mobley was awesome in the comeback. Dunk, block, 3, free throws. 7 points and erased a couple Detroit possessions. Definitely quieted some critics these playoffs in my mind.

Which 2? Stand around and be a cone? The guy cant even grab boards

There’s the defence too. Last series having Brandon Ingram play on one leg at least meant that Mobley had to guard him. Once he was out Mobley started guarding Scottie and RJ and the Raps offence went straight to hell.

True. That’s also part of the defences playing him much harder in the playoffs than the regular season. In essence he maintained his seasonal intensity for the playoffs while defences around him ramped up their intensity and he couldn’t match it.

We saw that with Victor in his first game vs the Wolves. They completely converted him into a non-factor on offence. He had to adjust mentally to make a comeback in game 2 onwards. They got to him again in game 4 and then he came back again in game 5.

It boils down to mentality too. So you’re not wrong at all.

Wendell Carter got Duren shook in the previous round. Carter was big and athletic enough to stop him and could shoot the occasional 3. Duren’s had so many bad games in a row on offense and defense, now he can’t secure a rebound or catch a pass. In the regular season he was willingly dribbling the ball and wanting the ball. In the playoffs with the higher pressure over every possession and the refs letting physical play happen, Duren seems to have lost confidence in all parts of his game.

JB should start Paul Reed but he’s afraid that benching would destroy Detroit’s hopes of developing Duren into a productive star player.

So maybe he’s gassed

The Cavs are constantly bodying the fuck out of him. You can clearly see he’s not able to get to his spots. When you can’t create for yourself, can’t shoot, and can’t get to your spots around the rim, you’re gonna be useless. It’s pretty simple.

Playoffs are just totally different levels of defense. They barely scout and gameplan around individual matchups in the regular season. Orlando saw some limitations in durens skillset and keyed on it hard, particularly with how they drop on PnR defense. It took away a lot of his easy buckets and the game got way more difficult for him. After that he seemed to be getting very frustrated, which led to a lot of dumb fouls, and he started to lose his aggression. Mobley and Allen are much better defenders than WC and they forced guys to make shots rather than bail them out with desperation fouls. Duren has just not been able to get the ball in his hands and make easy baskets to find a rhythm and work through it, and the bad defense has gotten worse and worse. I know pistons fans are bitching about the refs but watching the games, it just looks like the dumbest fouls and contests over and over. That seems to add to it. Last thing is JB is a horrible coach for these situations, a lot like doc. He does a victim mentality into the team and I’ve always felt it contributes to guys feeling helpless and choking rather than redoubling efforts to do what they know they should.

Detroit learning the hard way that all defence lineups will only get you so far in the new NBA.

They’re still a winning team, but if Cade isn’t dropping 35-45, they’re not winning anything.

I love how people constantly get Ausar and Amen wrong because you can say the same thing for both of them on the offensive end lol.

Amen does absolutely nothing on offense to help the Pistons. Or defense, for that matter.

Ausar is a much better Piston.

I’m just wondering if they hope he will make notable improvements on offense since he is only 22, or will they consider doing a sign-and-trade and see if they can replace him with a scorer who can shoot. I think it’s worth considering.

I watched most pistons games this season and its certainly partially mental but you’re also heavily overrating his newfound skills and his baseline as a player. The reason he’s spiraling is because his regular season moves dont hold up to playoff level defensive intensity. Duren is a very rote player, the way he plays/learns the game is not instinctual, its very mechanical. If his 2k move package he learned isnt working he can’t adjust. Especially since a primary difference between regular season and playoff D is how much more aggressive teams play at the point of attack and PnRs and how aggressively they pick up and body players when they receive a pass in the high post, if Duren cant get “set up” relatively free of obstruction whether that be while playng in the PnR or recieving the ball in the high post, he is basically stumped and it leads to a easy steal or a pathetic contested layup attempt. If you watch tape this post season of when he does get buckets, its almost always a gimme were his defender has a mental lapse off-ball and Duren is wide open for a pass with a good angle to the basket(rather than the defender getting lost via a well run set etc)

He’s also not the athlete everyone thinks he is, at least in terms of how its important to a bball player. He can sky for rebounds and dunks or make explosive moves, but look at the tape whenever he does this. He needs to be set and really well balanced and its always purely vertical, whenever hes out of position, getting bumped by defenders(even smaller ones) or its off-rythm, he generates zero explosion. Its like QB’s that can bomb passes if they have a good pocket but can barely throw if theyre on the run vs a QB who doesnt have a cannon for an arm but can get off zip or hurl mid range passes with good power and accuracy while scrambling and off balance in a collapsing pocket, its different kinds of athleticism.

This

Lots of people posting here don’t watch any Pistons games and it shows

They just saw that Duren was an all star and is having a bad playoffs so they’re coming out of the woodwork with some crazy takes

I’m glad I’m seeing this take more often. He legitimately has looked scared on the court this series.

He’s obviously in his own head, because even if the offense cratered there’s no other reason for his not rebounding with the same physicality.

On offense I do think his lack of counters and read/pass ability are still being exposed a bit. He’s an improved player, but we see it every year where when playoff intensity increases, and the margins narrow, guys get exposed when they can’t counter the defense taking away what they prefer.

Duren just isn’t as skilled as the elite offensive bigs and it seems to be compounding mentally.

This is why Kwame needed to commit two to memory. One just wouldn’t have been enough

That also reminds me that people had been overly critical of Sengun’s performance this playoffs. You see what Duren looks like in playoffs all the while playing with a guard of Cade’s caliber, and suddenly Sengun doesn’t look so bad with no KD most of the Lakers series

Nobody caught on to Josh Hart’s “dribble still I get pressured to pick up my dribble and look for Brunson” move

Easily the most insightful comment here but also kinda noticed the opposite as he gathers and drives. He’s a two foot jumper as a roll man or on drives very often. Which means he’s very dependent on either dipping his shoulder into a defender to create separation or literally being right under the basket. His poster on Jarrett Allen game 4 is like this. Hell his poster dunk on Victor in the reg season also again 2 feet. The baskets he has vs Evan Mobley just bully balling when he has enough time and space to clear out fit this designation also.

All the comments about the playoffs vs reg season and “weaknesses get exposed” dont actually describe anything. No in between game(have you ever seen him take a floater at all) is a big issue. He hasnt shown much interest in making basic reads as a passer all year(he showed more last yr) which when he was jumping up to 20 a game is fine but now its espec problematic. As a roll man can he go up and catch lobs at a high level sure, but there’s more to being a roll man than that and as teams have switched alot of his screens those easy rim runs have gone down.

Wow I don’t watch a lot of Duren, but that’s surprising. I feel like “two hands, two feet” is a pretty common thing to learn very early in basketball education? Like did we not all spend hours jumping on two feet, bouncing a ball off the wall and catching it? A coach made me do pushups once for bringing down a rebound with one hand in practice! Is this another thing we can blame AAU for?

Great point. Comparing Duren to prime Dwight Howard, a huge part of Howard’s game was that he almost always jumped off 2 feet. It makes a huge difference both offensively and defensively for generating power through contact. 

Duren doesnt have an offensive bag.

Detroit doesnt have a lot of playmakers outside of Cade.

Detroit has poor spacing without Duncan Robinson.

Cavs key in on Cade, rotate to Jenkins and Tobi if needed.

They just put someone in between duren/thompson and the ring. Now Cade has to spend more effort in playmaking or shoot it himself.

Duren-specific, he’s basically worse than Rudy. Yes he can catch but he doesnt know how to leverage his strength and has little experience how to position. Duren isnt a great defender like Rudy so Cavs can still penetrate freely once they get past perimeter defenders.

The difference between playoffs and regular season is an opposing team can really focus/study how to abuse players’ weaknesses and Duren’s weaknesses has popped up since the first round.

Compare Detroit to last year, they had Hardaway and Beasley. Their spacing is a looot worse.

It also goes beyond the offensive woes. Dude has completely lost the ability to rebound. It’s like he’s trying to jump with concrete blocks tied to his ankles.

Nah, that does more or less cover it

Playoff basketball is entirely different

You’re explicitly focusing in on the teams and each players weakness. It happens all the time

Look at Brunson for example. Everyone knows his POA defense isn’t great, but you don’t see teams hunt him in the regular season. Post season? It’s totally different. You need every advantage. So what do teams do? Hunt the guy who can’t play D. Run PnR to get a good scorer on Brunson

Playoff basketball is all X’s and O’s and exploitation. If you have a weakness, it will be exposed unless your coach can hide it

Duren can’t shoot 3’s, which you can’t scheme out of, and he’s not a great defender, and again just like KAT on the Knicks (who thankfully had stepped his game up a bit), you can only scheme so much to cover certain deficiencies

Nope. I was told cavs are trash because they lost some games to raptors. Therefore all raptors players are also trash.

He’s got that kenneth faried manimal quality where he just out dogs everyone, CMB has more upside though

he had thumbs in his bum???

Collin Burray Moyles

Calamari Boils

Continental Ballistic Missile

Cock and ball morture

Chicken Burrito (from) Murica

Allen had ²³⁄₉ and Mobley had ²⁵⁄₁₂ in that game too, so it wasn’t like it was completely one-sided. 3 point overtime loss in Detroit with the Cavs missing Harden and Mitchell.