Austin Reaves in his media availability earlier today about SGA’s foul drawing ability - “He wants to win and is gonna do whatever it takes to win. If it’s shoot 20 free throws, so be it. If I shoot 20 free throws, I’d be happy.”
game recognize game
AR tipping his hat to him
flopping his hat to him
“It’s blown out of proportion… how many possessions he has the ball in his hands and how much he does attack, you know, you’re not going to shoot zero free throws”
This is the thing. Prime Harden got so much hate but this is inevitable.
Honestly I blame the refs and the NBA for not being consistent with the calls.
Prime harden was a lot of ball in his hands so a lot of free throws, but he also had ungodly % of fouls draw. He was averaging around 7-9% of fouls on 3pt attempts and peaked at 13%. For reference, league average is around 1% and 3-4% is usually league leading numbers. His foul% on drives was also higher than anyone. He led the leagues in FT/Fouls 8 out of 10 years in his prime and was only top 2 in drives/game twice.
Harden shouldn’t used as a comparison to anyone.
Yeah, the difference between harden and SGA is Harden didn’t drive to the basket nearly as much.
Last year i found a chart showing FT rate per drive. There were at least 5 current players (guards and wings) above SGA. I can’t remember the whole list but Butler was one of them.
It’s absolutely insane that SGA gets compared to prime Harden in terms of foul baiting.
SGA isn’t even the #1, #2 or #3 foul baiter in the league right now, whereas Harden is the #1 foul baiter of all-time.
he gets the comparison because their teammates are allowed to molest the other team’s players, painting a picture of unfair officiating
Harden did drive to the basket a lot as I remember (not sure what the numbers are), but he would just hook guys arms once he got a foot in the paint and flail, wouldn’t get all the way to the rim. SGA has unnatural motions sometimes and falls down a lot but at least he still shoots the ball and gets a lot of and ones
Thank you, I’m tired of the Harden revisionist bullshit from people who either didn’t watch the NBA back then or with motives to bring down X player by comparing
No player’s foul drawing bs broke the game like Harden
Whenever I see somoney comparing luka, sga, etc to prime harden I already know its a bad faith argument or straight up misinformation.
Luka this season in particular is the guy that got closer to harden in terms of uneven FTs/foul volume relative to the shot profile, but he was still not on hardens level of BS.
I just chalk it up to be kids not being around durig harden’ peak
Luka and SGA flop and at least try to finish the play every time. Harden would be throwing shots backwards just for the whistle lol
I don’t remember defenders guarding WITH THEIR HANDS BEHIND THEIR BACKS for other players
And I wish NBA refs would explain how the fuck you’re supposed to guard his 3 without fouling. He does a 4 step stepback, you close the space to defend, but he jumps forwards into you and it’s a defensive foul because he’s entitled to all that space? Like what are we doing here
Remember Rubio defending Harden at the 3pt line, behind him and with his hands behind his back?
Anyone who talks about harden in comparison with anyone should be shown that clip on repeat for 3 hours.
Hardens peak was at 11.8 ft per game, and 7 out of 8 years in a row he had 10+ ft per game.
Shai’s peak is at 10.8 three years ago, but his only other season at 9+ is this season, where he is at exactly 9.0.
So peak Harden shot basically 30% more ft than Shai this year, and even more than that last year.
The 2 years before this, Shai shot 7.9 ft per game. So Shai winning last year and getting all that foul baiting hate, and he shot almost FIVE less ft per game than “prime Harden”. People want to keep making this comparison, but when you actually look at the numbers, it just doesn’t make sense.
Call flopping techs and the pretend shit would go away very quickly. They get engagement from pissed off fans, so it’ll never happen.
i think a way to fix things wouls be to have a public record of 3rd party verified missed calls, flops, etc. and there should be consequences for refs racking up a problematic amount of missed calls.
so basically the L2M report but for the whole game, and with specific refs called out by name
have a relgation system for refs. if theyre in the bottom half theyre relegated to ref g league. top guys are upgraded to ref playoffs, and get bonus
Prime Harden was still worse
Yep. It’s really the refs rewarding this inconsistent bullshit for no reason.
These players don’t need the extra help, and they’re also not going to turn it down, free points are free points.
Maybe players should stop slapping their hands on him. Yes, SGA does flop, but every single replay of those flops, there is contact and a foul
[deleted]
*if*?
Jaylen Brown kicking rocks somewhere
He’s just walking around Boston trucking pedestrians.
Every good pedestrian does it.
Yeah but they all have an agenda to all truck into him obviously
Brown could only dream of having the same foul drawing ability as Reaves and SGA has
AR15 challenging SGA to a foulbaiting match
If Luka comes back we’re about to see some generational FTA numbers
The games are gonna be 4 hrs long at this rate
like that one spurs vs lakers game early in the season
Reminds me of that Clippers vs Rockets playoff games that had both teams commit to hack a shaq. This would be like that but the free throws were not getting brick.
Luka and Lebron draw all the refs into a bitch fit, while ar hits shai with a steel chair. I’ve seen a hundred times.
Griftermania
“Are you challenging me to a flop-off, Shai Gilgeous-BOOxander?”
If you don’t like that then you don’t like NBA basketball baby. 😂
You can’t even be mad at that because if your team’s getting those calls you’re calling it smart basketball, not foul baiting.
I’m just not a fan of stiff arm basketball. Sga gets away with this sooo much. He literally does full extention stiff arm into a jumper or step back.
This is my biggest gripe with today’s game as well. The shit that the elite players do to get shots, like push offs and initiating contact with the defender, used to get called all the time. Charge replays used to focus on the offensive players shoulder with actual criteria for what was a charge and what was a block. Now it’s just, “whelp, the ref called it that way but it could have gone either way“
Bruh they used to call a charge for leading with your shoulder. Idk how tf we got here. I saw a little bit here and there and then all of a sudden it just got normalized. Leading with your shoulder is not even a foul at all anymore
He literally doesn’t though, his arm extensions are almost always chicken wings or they’re called fouls like the rest of the league. It’s actually hilarious that people try to play off these opinions as facts constantly in comment sections and clearly either haven’t watched him or have hallucinated something that just isn’t part of the dudes repertoire.
This is some wild projection here lol. Your second sentence is just describing yourself and all thunder fans that deny his push offs.
So Shai doesn’t fully extend his arm, and the guy I replied to was wrong, but you counter with nothing but the concept of projection. Why write anything at all, why are you in my notifications
there’s a clear difference im afraid. smart basketball is about making the other team make mistakes, foul baiting is the same except ref is helping you as well
And whats baiting people to reach in and faking people into jumping if not capitalizing on mistakes? Nembhard had no problem not fouling SGA in the finals and neither did Nesmith have a problem staying in front of Brunson in the ECF.
Self-awareness level 9000
SGA vs AR. Is this the greatest merchant off of all time?
Reffed by Scott Foster and Tony Brothers
Must see TV
Who put a basketball game in my free throw shooting contest
All that and Bron would get like 4 free throws a game
Bron and JDub’s lack of fouls will balance each other out lol
It is weird huh…most of the times those guys draw so much more contact on their drives compared to sga and ar, and no fking calls
Guys with a strong downhill playstyle just don’t get calls, it’s also not a great spot to be in as a ref cus some of those downhill drives the offensive player is initiating all the contact and there’s really nothing the defender can do besides foul
Lowkey, this suddenly makes the series more interesting. Idgaf about the actual game Now I wanna see who wins a free throw contest.
https://hardscreenherald.substack.com/p/contact-capitalists-a-foul-merchants
Only in the first game, the coaches will adapt. Let anyone but Shai and Austin beat you from the free throw line.
Man this foul baiting topic is so tired, it’s a bunch of casuals clutching pearls about a sport they don’t even watch
Yep, this is my opinion too
My buddy was whining about SGA the other day. Mind you, he will openly admit that he hasn’t watched an NBA game by himself without someone else putting it on virtually his entire life. He just regurgitates some tweets he saw.
modern NBA fandom is a symptom of modern humanity that I don’t see in other sports… just spewing hot takes, aggressive opinions, and making extremely black and white broad generalizations based on literally no critical thought whatsoever, and saying it all with a disgusting condescending tone
There was a recent playoff game in ATL vs NYK where the first 5 minutes there wasn’t a foul in the game. Zero interruption.
The atmosphere was electric. That’s the environment the league should be trying to replicate. It felt like a completely different game than the constant stop for fouls.
I keep looking for these bad calls people keep complaining about and I just don’t see anything remotely proportional to the noise. Only thing I see regularly that’s justifiably irritating is the arm bar push off from his defender. If that’s allowed, it shouldn’t be.
To clarify: arm bar is fine on its own, but engaging the delts or shoulders with the arm bar becomes super difficult to guard if the defender can’t deflect that additional force somehow.
Any one actually watches games would feel the same way. For example, Embiid shot around 14 FTs last night and if you go back and look at the fouls maybe two of them are questionable if you really want to argue. But he also got fouled a bunch more times without getting the calls, and that’s just the norm. Refs aren’t perfect and they won’t get all the calls right, they might give a ticky tacky foul while missing a blatant call the next, it’s just human error.
This noise about foul baiting is amplified by losers continually posting clips of questionable calls to farm engagement and it works because most people in here only watch those clips so it creates an echo chamber of people who don’t know what happens in games on a regular basis.
Exactly! That’s that social media brain we’re all fighting whether we know it or not
To your point about the refs, those arm bar moves SGA makes are super tough to referee in real time action. He’s often pretty subtle with the extra delt/shoulder engagement. SGA’s ability to change directions (with his insane ankle/knee flexibility) adds an additional element for the refs to get swindled by lol. Refs have an impossible job - they’ll never be perfect. Too many things happening too fast and sometimes out of view.
I actually have a lot of respect for SGA’s fend offs, they aren’t arm extensions like Brown or RJ Barrett do where they’re basically throwing elbows. He is so agile and changes directions so quickly that defenders are usually unable to stay with him, just a slight touch from his arm is enough to get them off balance.
The thing is, this happens while the games are live too. I was looking at the game threads for r/bostonceltics and r/sixers during game 7 and they were BOTH complaining about refs being biased against them.
“Breathing on Embiid is a foul” from one side, “game is being called for the Celtics so they can get a Celtics-Knicks matchup” on the other. Just one example, a lot of things were said by both fanbases about how the refs hate their team and love their opponents. It’s just excuses and confirmation bias.
I think I kind of disagree here.
If Refs called every game accurately, by the book, a lot of games would be unwatchable 80+ ft monstrosities. So the refs have to use their discretion and swallow their whistle to keep the game entertaining. This introduce a human judgement element to the free throws that just doesn’t feel good as a fan of either team. Refs aren’t always calling ticky tacky fouls on one side and missing blatant hacks on the other because of error, they are sometimes choosing to ignore them or call them for reasons unrelated to that play.
IMO the game would be better to watch if they made it easier to defend without fouling and tightened things up so that it is watchable if called accurately every game.
Sga and AR aren’t even top 5 worst, they just have a massive spotlight on them due to their teams. I’d take watching either of those dudes over watching Brunson or sengun any day of the week. The conversations on this stuff tend to be extremely disingenuous.
This series is going to set playoff FTA records. Foulable force vs. floppable object
Yeah, and they can probably do it even without Luka playing, lol.
Dont let Jalen Brown hear about this.
I dont wanna hear about jaylen brown for months now
He’ll get triggered lol
Reaves, Luka, smart, and LeBron flopping is just smart savvy basketball, they really know the game.
OKC flopping is disgraceful and is the reason why I don’t watch NBA basketball anymor.
Said no one. Add in daily laker FTA #1 post everytime lakers go on run. This is he furthest from the truth in this sub
This sub is a small minority of basketball discourse. Go see any mass platform like yt or tiktok and you’ll see people unironically saying shit like what the other dude said with 1000s of likes.
Right, and you have the choice to just completely ignore those idiots. You don’t HAVE to engage with them.
You’re crazy if you think the Lakers get as much FT hate as OKC.
If there’s a particularly bad call against sga you can guarantee its the top post for the day on this sub and all the shit nba “discussion” subs as well, even if he’s put up 38 point on 7FTA
Just a coincidence that the Lakers have been #1 in FTA for the past couple seasons, find a new slant. NBA would never rig games for the oppressed Lakers.
Orlando Magic is #1 in FTA this year
Denver last year and Orlando again the year before that
Damn why is the nba rigging games for fking orlando man
so they can’t fire their coach
Mickey Mouse is paying money under the table
Saying the league actively rigs games for the Lakers is an IQ barometer. See how much the league actively “rigs” games for the Lakers after OKC spanks us by 30 points.
“IQ barometer”😭✌️
I mean the nba doesn’t rig games but it’s pretty obvious even to the guys on court bigger markets get a better whistle, it’s not only the Lakers they just get it more than any other team. U can look it up on YouTube when Iggy pretty much said the same thing to Lou Will when they were on the Sixers against Chicago. I’ve seen it happen with us as well against even smaller markets than us
Have you seen okcs whistle?
Yes and being an exception as a small market, with the mvp and one of the most popular players, doesn’t discount what I said
I agree, the league would never do that. It’s just a coincidence. Why would the NBA help out their most popular player and most popular team? Makes no sense. NBA would rather rig it for OKC.
Doncic career high in FTA/season was with the Mavericks.
Anthony Davis career high in FTA/season was with the Pelicans.
LeBron’s time with the Lakers has seen him at a career low FTA/season over his 8 years here, and there are definitely calls to give him if they wanted to.
Also is it just some half assed rigging? Like, “let’s rig the game for them… but not enough to win”
I’m interested in some actual conversation rather than some sarcastic remark that has not much value.
I just said I agree the NBA doesn’t rig games for the Lakers. It’s just a coincidence.
Nice! My bad bro I thought you were being incessantly sarcastic and ignorant about basketball as a result of the victim complex that some fans have.
But I can see now that your comment was genuine and it was my misunderstanding. Apologies 🙏
Did I miss something and did we win a chip in the last 6 years? Where is all this rigging?
Did they rig our 4-1 loss to the Wolves? What about 4-0 and 4-1 losses to the Nuggets? Did they rig the league when we missed the playoffs entirely with Westbrook? They for sure rig the league for the Lakers man!
I agree, the NBA would never rig games for the Lakers.
So did you put money on the Lakers? Lots of money to be made since they are huge underdogs.
Why would I do that, the NBA isn’t rigging games for them.
Oh I thought you were mad.
When all else fails, go back to the rigging argument.
It’s all you guys have. Yes I’m sure the NBA wants to rig things for the Lakers and giving them free throws is how they do it.
The main way the NBA tried to help the Lakers and therefore help ratings is one of the only things that all fans hate watching.
You guys cope so hard you’ve convinced yourself that you’re actually using some semblance of logic.
And all that for two first round exit the other two season and currently in the second round via the Rockets implosion.
Don’t let them gaslight you into thinking you’re wrong here.
Everyone knew what you meant.
The Lakers have the #1 free throw differential in the league, and have gone #1, #1, #2, #1, #1 in each of the past 5 seasons.
And it’s by a massive margin too.
Reaves is a top 5 FT grifter, so I guess he’d know.
Lmfao this is a braindead take.
Luka, Bron, and Smart, the latter two especially have gotten hate for flopping a million times longer than OKC or SGA.
What a pathetic take. You starting watching basketball a week ago or something.
Your argument entirely relies on recency bias and 12yr olds lmao
Luka is far more hated than anyone on OKC. What a pathetic comment.
I wonder how many people who say OKC made the nba unwatchable have actually not watched any of the playoffs?
They been missing out
Lunch pail kinda guys
None of the guys you named flop like SGA does on a nightly basis, nice try though
Not a hypocrite unlike some players.
Now kiss
We have a flop off in our hands folks
We should have a yearly flop off/ft merchant contest
I nominate these candidates:
SGA, Luka, Reaves, Harden, Trae, Embiid, Jokic, Dani, Butler
Hello Jaylen Brown you tried a sneaky one there
Damnit you caught me!
I’ll add myself to the list:
+Jaylen Brown
On a serious note, Brown the last few months with all his whining about other players has really made himself look bad. Its one thing to flop/exaggerate contact to get free throws like some guys do (SGA, Dani, Harden), its another thing to publicly call out guys like Brown has been doing and get caught doing the same stuff.
Plus he’s had some dirty moments lately. Haven’t seen SGA elbow people in the nuts or push off with hard elbows like Brown does.
The thing with Brown is that he knows it’s not goood but it gets rewarded so he joins the dark side just to have a chance to compete.
To an extent Curry does it too, he just does not whine about it.
Deni doesn’t really flop tho, he just runs straight through defenders and gets calls all the time.
“James Harden. Trae Young when he comes off-ball screens and people are trying to fight over because he’s such a good playmaker, floater shooter that if you get it going early that they got to try to contests, so you can pick spots here and there to use their speed and energy to try to get back in front to draw a foul like that or stuff like that. I mean, I’ve watched James Harden you know, like I said, Trae. Two masters at that. Kind of tried to put it into my game.”
–Austin Reaves
There is no difference between smart basketball and foul baiting its perspective
Jaylen Brown crying in the corner.
If you can score reliably from the free throw line there’s no incentive not to bait. Happens in all leagues from the NBA to high school with varying degrees of success and frequency so it’s no surprise at the top there are guys who can do it regularly. I wish I could get to the line more regularly in my social comp but I’m not a little bitch.
I mean doesn’t Austin hunts fouls as much as the next guy? It’s gonna be ugly.
terrorists win
at some point you have to admit it’s a skill just like drawing charges
I don’t really get this narrative. Luka gets around 10 a game. SGA would probably get around that in a Lakers jersey. Some players are good at drawing fouls. It’s a skill
For now, yes.
Until the NBA finally concedes its terrible for the game and go to the extent of changing the rules.
See EG James Harden
Foul baiters must unite
He won’t be saying this after the series.
Every game would take 4 hours minimum
Ded man talking
They get it. Anyone crying about it just isn’t playing the game.
They’re about to go free throw for free throw
Both FT merchants
As much as i hate it, this is on the refs to call it properly. If they be more consistent on these soft ass calls, then players would stop doing that. Players will do what it takes to win, and if they are rewarded with those baits and flops, then why stop. They are rewarded with those plays.
The problem is the league, not the players. SGA has figured out to maximize his ability to score and it’s on the league to deal with it now that it’s taking over the league.
Unethical hoops on one series and ethical hoops on the other they setting up for a saint vs sinner western conf finals
It’s a flop-off!
I think there’s even a difference within foul baiters. Jimmy is a huge foul baiter but I kind of respect it because his types of fouls are going strong while looking for fouls. Guards are annoying as fuck, they hook the arms constantly and initiate contact that’s close to offensive fouls but if you body them up a little they just fly the fuck away and refs can only call a foul or a travel and they ain’t calling a travel
Flop game recognize flop game.
Let’s have a flopping contest! It’s gonna be great.
flopping recognizes flopping
The point isnt that SGA is an expert in foul-baiting, many of them soft calls. The point is the calling has to be consistent by the refs. Give the same superstar whistle to all players then. Blow the whistle when Lu Dort makes dirty plays. Parity is what I want. It’s pretty clear we will not have a league where defense is prioritized, because the bald idiot somehow thinks basketball is only about scoring, and high scoring. What does he care about the integrity of the game, or to make it an even contest?
AR has to out SGA SGA
Grifter prince speaks glowingly of grifter king.
It’ll be fun to watch the refs 3 laws of robotics their way through this series.
They both foul bait.
But AR is more ethical. He initiate contacts and sacrifice his body.
SGA on the other hand do the pushoff and flail his head and arms.
Same foulbait it just the other is more unethical.
this is amazing 🤣
Anybody else read SGA as sigga
No
i thought all the Slovenian Doncic fans switched to Lakers
I think his excessive flopping is what general fans have a problem with. Which is understandable. It’s one thing that you attack the basket all the time to draw foul. It’s another that you’re flailing your legs like an angry flamingo and generating memes on a weekly basis.
the biggest complaints about shai come from his teammates being able to punch players in the face on defense and not get a call
AR said it so it’s cute. Jaylen Brown says it and everyone wanna kill him lol these nephews
He is not criticizing Shai here though. From what I’ve seen Brown say it’s just him complaining about Shai/Embiid grifting while he does the same thing.
Except they said two entirely opposite things
I mean totally different perspective huh?
JB was salty after blowing a 3-1 lead
found the salty celtics fan don’t even have to have a flair for me to know
Brown is bitching all day today about fouls and refs when he got one of the best whistles in the playoffs lol. Just take your L
“nephews” lmao this is basic comprehension which you very much lack. Also brown cant take the fucking L. He’s worse than the players he’s calling out and is too self centered to even acknowledge that.