Minus-Value Points!

Better than Luka!

His scoring was good, defensively he was great. No shame on his effort today. He just couldn’t get easy baskets for others and his floor mapping was kinda ass. Whoever worked with Tatum in passing, why is he not working with Jaylen too?

You’re not crazy. +/- is a dumbass stat that ignores a boatload of context.

His offensive process sucks ass

The plus minus stuff did actually mean something in the first half. There was a very clear change of pace and style when he sat. He goes out down 13, they look dead, then after he leaves, Celtics actually play really nice basketball, pass the ball around, crowd is hyped, they are up and he comes back up 1, first possesion, he makes a mistake and Philly ends the Celtics streak, then suddenly they start scoring again go up like 20 at some point.

But later down the line he was better.

His numbers ain’t even all that when you look past the volume scoring

Just wait for him to blame the refs and flopping

People vastly underrate how important assists are, overrate scoring numbers, and MASSIVELY MASSIVELY MASSIVELY underrate how bad turnovers are.

They also massively overate POA defense and underrate help defense.

Said another way, every single thing that Jalen Brown does that’s well is things fans overrate. Everything that he’s bad at is things fans underrate.

Yeah.

He was drafted in 2016. Here’s a stat for the stat nerds:

• Most playoff wins since 2016-17 - Jaylen Brown.
• Second most playoff wins since 2016-17 - Jayson Tatum.

Outside of LeBron James and the Golden State Warriors, there isn’t a single player over the past decade who has had the success of these two guys. Certainly none of the regular r/nba favourites.

I’d say that a certain point, r/nba and ESPN have to admit that the Boston Celtics might know a little more about winning basketball games than they do.

If you have guys who are winning more than almost anyone else in the league, and the stats say they’re bad players… maybe it’s time to re-evaluate how you interpret the stats, not the players.

Celtics need to build a trade around Jaylen for KD. Guaranteed ring next year if they’re healthy.

Tatum led every stat and Brown shot just as bad but one gets called finals MVP and the other gets called dead weight

Porzingis played in half the finals games what even is your point

how he played? lmao he shot 53% ts as the second option

got lucky luka’s teammates were shook

Raw on-off does have faults though. When you adjust it for teammates and opponents, and incorporate other things (like box score stats which tend to increase predictive accuracy), Jaylen Brown rates as an above average player.

He’s not an MVP-level player, he’s probably not worth his contract, but IMO he is an above average starter.

What about the Celtics who gave him a contract?

He wasn’t ever front runner for that MVP, however he was for top 5 and realistically why wouldn’t be? Boston overachieved in regular season and he lead the team with career best statistic. It’s all true. What is also true is that regular season mean literal jack-shit and playoffs settles all scores down.

But MVP is being awarded for regular season runs solely, so real question is: why do you put so much emphasize on that award since it’s being awarded for inconsequential regular season showings? It’s either this or that.

Boston made a 2nd qtr run that cut the 13 point deficit entirely while he was sitting on the bench and took a one point lead and then he subbed in and Philly got an open dunk because he missed his defensive assignment. We have eyes. At one point Boston - Philly was 5 point game and he had plus-minus of - 20. 

Stars run bench units across the league and do not have a season negatives in +/-

Poor Demar. He doesn’t deserve this…

It is a bit misleading. The Celtics have had a top tier roster spearheaded by a top 10 guy for years. Whenever Jaylen came off the court, Tatum was on the court. And when Tatum came off, Jaylen came on.

The stat really just shows that Tatum + bench and tertiary starters is better than Jaylen + the same.

But I’m telling you, 75% of Celtics fans believe Jaylen is better because he dunks harder. That’s their level of analysis.

I can’t believe people on this sub are so conceited that they actually think teams are in the wrong. Yeah, these teams are so STUPID that they pay maxes to players who literally hurt their team like Paolo and Brown. Us mastermind redditors have it figured out

On-off is just one piece of data. Quoting it doesn’t necessarily mean you believe the Celtics are better without Brown.

It could just be evidence that Jaylen Brown might not be as good as his counting stats. Clearly his counting stats aren’t directly translating to winning the way you’d expect.

I tend to think Brown is a positive player, but just not an MVP-level player. And the on-off numbers are an important piece of evidence for me.

He didn’t play in the 21 playoffs.

I’m looking at basketball reference: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html

Perhaps pbpstats or CTG differs, though all would say majority of playoff runs are negative on-off

Derozan is one of the most prominent other guys. More recently Ingram.

not attractive kelly oubre is tuff

Lmao

Tatum plus bench units have always been more effective in this stat overall than Jaylen plus bench. Even this season’s version although to be fair relatively small sample size for this season.