Yea for those of us who know ball, we already knew that

That’s why we didn’t trade him for Giannis

Jaden is like if the song Euphoria was a human. Not the most energetic or in your face, but it is steeped in disgust and hate for anyone who actually listens.

The cherry picked stats are shit but using a 3 game sample isn’t that much better either, and I think Jokic in game 3 was horrible on both ends

Attacking him on defense exhausts him on offense. Even if he did get a stop defensively it’s a war of attrition.

People keep saying exposed, but I think this is the worst I’ve ever seen him on defense in terms of effort and skill. Like it makes me think something is wrong with him. He was not this bad during the regular season or even last year playing the wolves.

And even with Gordon this season Denver couldn’t get stops basically ever.

The real change is that post-injury Jokic doesn’t provide any meaningful defense. I’m not sure why, because pre-injury, he could defend well when he needed to (and when he didn’t have to be cautious about foul trouble). Something’s changed.

Being a terrible defender as 5 is the WORST. He’s probably the worst defenders in the playoffs if not the league.

Luka is way better defender than many other stars pgs themself.. He just needs to stop arguing with refs

That’s why I say Luka with a great and athletic lob threat center like lively is way better for playoffs than Jokic and a good Pg.

You have to guard lively and be constantly anticipating the lob..

After last night it’s undeniable, getting blown out, then your team starts come back when you’re off the floor just to get blown out again when you’re back on paints the picture perfectly.

Jokic Jersey must’ve had a “FREE EATS” sign we couldn’t see on the broadcast

NBA ring culture + the slop of advanced stats that glaze the shit out of a center that assists 

Luka’s entire defensive reputation is based on the NBA Finals in which he went up against a juggernaut team, still playing a bit injured IMO, and his role players totally shit the bed. Jokic benefits from never really being exposed on such a grand stage, we just see it in the first and second rounds so the narrative goes away as the playoffs continue.

It’s bc he won the championship with average rim protection in 2023. So ppl thought that could be around his baseline in the playoffs.

Tho now it is more likely that it was just bc of the quality of teams the Nuggets faced.

Oh he is a lot worse than Luka. Luka is not great at defense but his role is not as important and he is easier to cover for. A lot of Luka’s defense takes were amplified during his 24 run but he was legit injured during that run.

I mean to be fair to Jokic, he’s being asked to anchor a defense with pretty mediocre perimeter defenders and without Gordon, that becomes more exposed. All while being Mr. Everything on offense.

How durable and consistent Jokic is considering all the Nuggets ask of him, really speaks to his professionalism and greatness.

Luka doesn’t belong on this list. You can put a defensive rim running center around him with good wing defenders and you’re generally fine because of the rim protection.

You can also win with Jokic, but you need to have some defensive help. His offensive greatness allows for mediocre defense.

The other two are basically impossible to win with.

Wemby isn’t the same archetype of any of those players though

Wemby is a legit two-way player, he’s closer to ANT than to any of those other guys

but anyway, i do believe you’re correct but also Sengun is overrated and Sabonis is overpaid - neither should be in the same sentence as Jokic or Luka

Grouping Luka with Sabonis is TBI level of analysis. Do better

2022-23 just doesn’t exist then? And your grand theory already has an exception? Try again.

I think it’s just the pendulum swinging the other way tbh since Jokic has been this subs golden child for the last 5 years.

Only if defense didn’t have an effect on shots or something

You should read the full post, the 2nd image shows Jokić over the past 5 seasons…it’s not a small sample size, it’s who he is. One of the worse rim defending centers in the league

Meh. This is the kind of stat that looks way more definitive than it actually is.

When it matches the eye test and we all know Jokić is a terrible defender to begin with, it’s less about this specific stat being a complete argument in and of itself and more about this specific stat backing up what we’re all watching during the games.

you’re dealing with a tiny playoff sample and a really noisy metric

You’re hinging your argument on disproving one stat when the stat is only part of the argument.

That’s scheme and matchup driven as much as anything, not Joker.

Jokić is the part of the scheme that’s being attacked. He’s a matchup that they are exploiting. Rudy is setting screens and they’re trying to go at Jokić’s defense.

Over a bigger sample he has never been some elite rim deterrent anyway. But he’s also not this historically bad either.

He’s always been a bad defender and he’s currently putting up his worst defensive year. This defensive effort feels completely in line with Jokić’s defensive problems that he’s had his entire career. Why is this a historical abberation? His defense has taken a hit and now in the playoffs it’s getting exploited.

This is simply a couple games where Minnesota is getting exactly the shots they want and it’s skewing everything.

The shots they want are shots with Jokić protecting the rim. Their goal is to go at Jokić and so far they’re doing just that. “Skewing everything” is a funny way to say that the Timberwolves offensive scheme of going at Jokić is working.

This argument probably bangs as long as the person reading it doesn’t watch the games and doesn’t know Jokić is an awful defender to begin with and getting worse.